My daughter told me today what she would like for Christmas. She asked for a routine doctors visit.

[Hoof Hearted]

I had to excuse myself so I wouldn't cry in front of her.

My daughter works really hard at a crappy little retail job in the mall while she goes to college here and there in the evenings and online. She's a good kid who's held a steady job since she was 15 years old and is trying very hard to improve her prospects. Why the HELL, in this country, does she have to go begging for a simple, routine office exam? Worse yet, I get holes in my stomach thinking about what would happen if she was in an accident or got sick with no insurance.

:cry:

I don't CARE anymore which Democrat we get in the Whitehouse as long as we GET ONE IN.

This isn't right and it has to stop.

[Ishoutandscream2]

1. Unreal, isn't it?

[Hoof Hearted]

5. It felt like getting punched in the heart.

Her dad and I told her yes, we will pay for the visit and NO - that's not going to be your Christmas gift for Pete's sake.

[Ishoutandscream2]

9. I know Michael Moore portrayed stories like this in Sicko

but all my right wing friends think Michael is a traitor and not truthful. These are the type of stories that I try to tell them. Instead, they blame the uninsured rather than the insurance industry and big pharma for problems in health care. Why can't people in this country be more empathetic toward those who are less fortunate?

[bobbolink]

10. "Kick 'em while they're down" is our national motto, and unfortunately, it's not limited

to the right wing.

Liberals do their own version of the same.

I know, I've been on the receiving end of it. :(

[rfranklin]

15. Your friends are suffering from the Stockholm syndrome...

They identify with their captors. I will bet that not one of them is a millionaire with unlimited health care benefits. They are probably the same people that would lose their home and life savings if they had one catastrophic event that put them in the hospital.

But this is the nature of the human animal--to roll over and present one's soft underbelly to the dominant dog and hope to be spared while directing attention to those weaklings over there who deserve to be eviscerated.

What idiots!

[Ishoutandscream2]

42. You are absolutely right

[Canuckistanian]

19. Tell them this from a Canadian

I just saw Sicko last week and I was almost reduced to tears.

The Canadian scenes are exactly right, we don't give a second thought to health care. We know that we can walk into any hospital or doctor's office and get attended to without delay, without regard to how we are going to pay for it.

I never even gave it a thought until I became a member of DU. I was aware of the problems of insurance companies and HMO's, but I NEVER thought it was THAT bad. People losing their loved ones, their houses, and most of all, their SANITY in dealing with difficult medical problems on a low budget.

Even I wanted to storm Washington and DEMAND universal health care after watching Sicko.

I really can't understand the mindset of people who think that government funded health care is somehow a threat to their very existence.

[Ishoutandscream2]

41. Thanks. I'm bookmarking this

They need to know this.

[Skittles]

43. thanks, Canuck

I let a Brit have it recently when he said he had no sympathy for Americans paying 3 dollar gas compared to what he pays - I said, darling, when you spend 5000 bucks in one year on your teeth or fear losing your house to medical bills, THEN I will feel sorry for the amount you spend on gas. Until then SHUT THE F*** UP because YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. Yes INDEED.

[truedelphi]

121. I make that remark to WHOEVER every time that the TV or radio

Talking head is announcing some crappola about how good we have it with our $ 4 a gallon gasoline. And how we should ralize how $ 10 a gallon will be coming at us soon - but not to worry because after all the Europeans live with gas and its high prices.

I'd take the higher priced gas IF WE HAD HEALTH CARE.

[Hoof Hearted]

45. I can't even imagine right now what that would feel like.

To finally outrun that omnipresent shadow over my life, to know that my mom and children will get the medical care and drugs they need to live and flourish.

[Ravachol]

69. And from this Canadian too...

Had a similar reaction after watching Sicko and reading stuff here and there on the net, mostly on DU. I knew it was bad but didn't imagine, one second, that you could be refused treatment if you didn't have the money to pay for it... I've taken it for granted, it existed when I was born and still exists today even if some right-wingers want to privatize it so we, poor people, could have a supposedly "good service" while rich people could pay for a better, faster one. But it's still all talks and I doubt it will pass, coming as I am from a land where the last time our government threatened to cut taxes, 76% of the people were against. :)

Frankly, it's bad when you have a so important portion of your population that doesn't have access to healthcare...

[arikara]

96. Hopefully Sicko will wake up enough Canadians

so that they quit parroting the governments line that two-tiered health care would be a good thing to reduce wait lists. We should be screaming from the rooftops for them to implement the Romanow report and do something positive instead trying to privatize it.

My daughter lived down in the US for 7 years and from what she's told me the American medical system is far worse than Sicko portrays. Michael Moore didn't have time to cover the subject in a documentary. And in Canada we have our traitorous governments both federal and provincial undermining and stripping our health care system instead of funding it.

[raccoon]

72. I've run into similar morans, and I figure they'll "Get it" when they or

someone close to them is uninsured. Which will happen, sooner or later.

[Ishoutandscream2]

89. You know, that's the definition of today's "conservative"

They will never get it, until it happens to them. Until then, it is someone else's problem,

[ckimmy57]

90. Here here

I work in the medical field and see it every day. I get so upset that someone like Michael Moore is trying to tell these stupid people what the hell is wrong and they won't listen to him, they label him as an extreme right wing whacko. I'd also like to know why medication is cheaper in Canada then it is in the US and it comes from the same pharmaceutical companies that the US deals with AND it has to be sent to Canada....yet it's still cheaper, go figure. :shrug:

[aquart]

99. No. Michael Moore told stories about the INSURED.

THAT's what SICKO was about. The poor suckers who thought they were covered.

[Ishoutandscream2]

113. The man who cut his fingers off on the saw

was he insured? I got the impression he wasn't insured.

[nxylas]

134. He was uninsured, but...

...as Moore's commentary stated, "this film isn't about him".

[CountAllVotes]

18. my parents did not pay for anything "medical" after I moved out

I was 17 years old btw and left out in the cold to care for myself.

It really did suck and I was very sick.

Thank you for being a responsible and caring parent!

:kick:

[Hoof Hearted]

26. I'm sorry it went down that way for you and your parents.

Pride and anger can do such horrible things to a family. I can't imagine not even trying to care for your 17yo kid. I hope things are better for you now. :hug:

[CountAllVotes]

47. no it was a matter of priorities

it seemed the priority was something called alcohol which is where all the money went; to pay for a certain alcoholic's addiction which is most sad in hindsight. I have no regrets. They are both gone now and I forgave both of them a very long time ago. It was just messed up is all which was so common with people from my generation.

[Gormy Cuss]

2. No, it isn't right.

Your daughter sounds like she's trying to make the best of the situation. Kudos to you for raising a fine young person.

[bobbolink]

3. Have you written your Rep about HR676? Has she?

Yes, it is truly a CRIME (and I don't mean that as hyperbole, but as actual fact!), that your daughter must wait for a Christmas gift to be able to get a simple, routine exam.

However, we can complain to each other over and over and it will get NOWHERE unless and until we organize and force the issue.

We'll get Universal Single Payer Health Care when we stand up on our hind legs and DEMAND it.

Maybe, in your card included with your gift of an exam for her, you might include a copy of the letter your wrote to your Rep.

[Hoof Hearted]

12. You know this seems like the perfect impetus. I think I'll do an LTE as well and mention 676.

My representative is a flat-earth, neanderthal ass-jack (Adrian Smith) but he VERY, very nearly lost to his Democratic rival - and this happened in Central Nebraska. He can't feel too secure in his job so maybe if enough people wrote and pressure applied? Who knows. He's is as dumb as a box of hammers though, so it probably won't do anything to sway his vote but I have to believe others will take notice. This tide must be turned.

[bobbolink]

21. .

:applause:

THAT'S the (Christmas) spirit!

THEN.... talk it up among your friends, relatives, neighbors, etc, and organize a trip to his office.

I did that with a group going to our Senator's office, and it was surprisingly productive.

Have you ever heard (crud-a-rama--senior moment.. forget his name) Rep. Hill (I think....) talk about our duties as citizens? He recommends visiting IN PERSON at least once a year. He said, "Believe me, if your representative gets 1,000 pieces of mail about an issue, he will have NO CHOICE but to sit up and take notice!"

If nothing else, it will be healthy for you, to give him some hell.

~~chortle~~

[drm604]

76. Maybe you should tell the story about your daughter in both of those letters, if it's okay with her.

Maybe you should tell the story about your daughter in both of those letters, if it's okay with her.

[aquart]

101. Always give a visceral example if you can.

Put a picture in their heads they can't shake out.

[silverojo]

4. UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE--NOW! K&R (n/t)

[SammyWinstonJack]

32. Heck, I would settle for affordable health care at this point. How about some government regulation

of the insurance companies and HMOs, if nothing else? I am a dreamer, after all. :banghead:

[Connonym]

59. to quote John Lennon, you're not the only one

[Iris]

6. Is she a full-time college student?

She can get a basic policy for not too much money - catastrophic coverage, but at least it's something.

[Hoof Hearted]

22. If she was full time I could put her on my policy but she's only able to manage

about 6-9 credits at a time with work. It breaks my heart and makes me feel incredibly guilty that we can't help her more. Right now we care for my mother and her drugs are running $450 - $600 per/mo since she fell in the Medicare "gap" - fuck you very much Bush - and I am trying to complete my own education. The whole lot of us teeter on the ability of my husband to support us on his wages as a boiler/chiller/HVAC tech, and thank God for him. He's the best of men.

[ckimmy57]

91. The only

people this Medicare part D has helped is the people with money that probably already had good secondary coverage for perscriptions. This part D shit was another way for GW's buddies at the big pharmaceutical companies to make more money off the back of the poor working folks, you know the same people that helped to make this "wonderful" county that GW is tearing apart.

[clovis29]

40. They made me get a policy when I was in college

IIRC it wasn't too expensive and it was covered by Financial Aid.

[SharonAnn]

48. But that's not usually available to part-time students.

[druidity33]

70. or part time employees

it makes it doubly difficult to finish a degree when neither your job or your school can cut you some health care slack. My wife and i managed to avoid it because her part time job is a TA position and at UMASS the graduate students have a Union... therefore a contract with a livable wage and bennies.

Once she graduates, we'll have trouble with health care again...

:(

[Lydia Leftcoast]

126. Such coverage USED TO be available to part-time students

When I was an unemployed Ph.D. back in the early 1980s, I could get University of Minnesota student health insurance simply by taking one evening class per term. The cost was something like $125 a term. You had to go to the on-campus clinic, but I got decent care, including being tested for a suspected ulcer.

I looked into that option (I like taking classes anyway) when I moved back here, but no such luck. Not only is tuition at the U of M twice as high as at Portland State but the health care option is no longer available to part-time students.

[SeattleGirl]

7. Good lord! That is really sad, that we have come to this.

There is no excuse for this kind of thing; none at all. I'm sick and tired of corporations being taken care of over the people.

I'm glad you and your husband are able to pay for a doctor's visit for your daughter, but damn!

[Sarah Ibarruri]

8. Oh my God I am so sorry. :(

I so hate these greedy corporate freaks, all of them (the ones in corporations and the ones in the White House and the ones in the media). There's nothing about them that's not despicable and despisable! And they're stealing our tax money for themselves instead of using it to provide us with medical care. It's our money!

[Hoof Hearted]

29. Thanks Sarah! Our tax dollars are going to kill people every day and yet the so called "pro-life"

republicans would rather see the working class and working poor just go ahead and die rather than see a PENNY of their precious money spent on the living, breathing, struggling citizens of our own country.

[midnight]

11. Hoof Hearted this makes me so crazy. Indeed. Why the

hell does this crap get accepted as part of capitilism.....I think the Dem's might be able to help this issue if we vote in a dem that is not taking donations from the insurance co.

[JeanGrey]

13. I CARE! Because I actually WANT healthcare everyone can

afford, and no more bullshit lip service!!!

[robbedvoter]

14. I have the same discussions with my kid - minus the Christmas part.

Can't afford it either.

[LeftishBrit]

16. I am so sorry

God, I complain constantly about my government, but posts like yours make me realize how lucky I really am. Best wishes for your daughter, and for real change!

[robinlynne]

17. My mom has been giving us health insurance as our gifts. it includes all birthdays,

christmas and all other holidays.

[stirlingsliver]

20. Your Mother

Your mother is truly a caring, compassionate person.

I wish our representatives (and some candidates) were equally caring and compassionate.

You are lucky to have such a wonderful woman for your mother.

Many children are not so fortunate.

[robinlynne]

31. Thank-you and yes it's true.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

23. We need this change to occur yesterday.

I know so many people that are in the same position. It is sad, frustrating and debilitating. :grouphug:

[graywarrior]

24. I can see someone my age worrying about that stuff, but it's really sad that

a college kid has that on her mind.

[NC_Nurse]

25. I know how you feel. My daughter

has several chronic conditions and is not covered by her waitress jobs in NYC. When she
needs to see a doc, her dad and I try to pay for it. I have signed her up for free studies down here
in my dept. in order to get her free care. Her dad has bought her a "catastrophic" policy in case of an accident or major
illness (like cancer or something). It might be worth looking into one of those as a gift if there's any way you can swing it.

If she has a major medical facility near her, she may be able to get into studies as a "healthy" subject. My university hospital is
constantly doing studies. You get a free work up, tests, sometimes they even pay you. My daughter was in an IBS study. She got
free breath testing for bacterial overgrowth and lactose intolerance, a sigmoidoscopy, and some other testing and they paid her $250.
Just a thought...

I agree that we need universal care, but these are the stopgap measures we have used for her in the meantime. :hi:

[Hoof Hearted]

28. Thanks for your wonderful thoughts :-) The nearest research hospital is 250 miles away.

You know, I was driving by a McDonald's (we don't go there) and they had a banner on top of the building advertising health insurance for $50 a month and I seriously thought about writing that phone number down. I decided then that we are all officially in hell.

McDonald's is hawking health insurance.

[NC_Nurse]

33. McHealthcare! Yikes!

[Wednesdays]

75. $50 a month health insurance?

Betcha covers only ingrown toenails.
Oh, and by the way, it's a $20,000 deductible. :puke:

[lostnfound]

27. Or how about buying insurance with a "rider on your breasts"?

A friend of mine had some kind of a shadow show up in a mammogram. Nothing particularly worrying, but for the next 12 months the insurance company said they would insure her but not her breasts.

The business of health "care" is nauseating, inhuman, and inhumane.

[Ilsa]

30. I wonder if an advanced practice nursing clinic, or a

physician's assistant program at a local university would be able to do some routine exams on her as part of the students' learning experience. They can't do anything invasive in many programs, but she could get her bp checked and lungs and heart auscultated. They could also ask her about health matters to see if she needs to make an adjustment in something in her lifestyle.

An advanced practice nursing program probably cannot offer prescriptions under the license of a practicing APN or MD because of liability, but they could make a referral if they found anything suspicious. If she is low risk, this might be the way to go. Or a visit to the college clinic if you have one.

I am so sorry your family is going through this. You are all working so hard and you have fallen through the cracks. Since your daughter doesn't have insurance through you, does she qualify for medicaid?

Best wishes to all of you.

(PS: Don't forget to try the pharmaceutical companies for prescription assistance for your mom.)

[Hoof Hearted]

34. Our university nursing program is just as you said - no scripts, She needs the

exam so that she can renew her birth control prescription. She has no children and is ineligible for Medicaid. Thank GOODNESS she's always enjoyed good health.

I've started knocking around PPA for my mom, and I wonder if they might have something for my daughter too. It's such a maze. I can't BELIEVE how screwed the whole system has become. What do elders with nobody to help them DO? What in the hell are we doing to our elders and our young?

[kineneb]

36. try this site

http://www.needymeds.com/

for assistance with medicines, at least for you mom.

I was able to get a year of one of my medicines covered, saving me about $130/month, or hassling the doc for samples. I am working on getting another ($114/mo) through the links on the site.

I think it is totally absurd to require people living under 125% of the poverty rate (us) to pay that much for meds.

[Hoof Hearted]

39. Thank you! I had many motivations for posting this story. Some selfish, but also I knew DU would

come through with thoughtful, valuable ideas.

What you posted here will help not just my family, but many others who see it here.

:hug:

[Beaverhausen]

49. Are there any Planned Parenthood offices in her area?

I had to go there for my annual check-up and birth control at several periods of my life when I was uninsured. IIRC, they gave me the pills for free.

[Hoof Hearted]

50. Yes, but due to regulations they can dole out her BC patches, but they can't

provide an exam or the prescription. How effed up is that?

[emmadoggy]

146. Really? Are those local regulations?

I used to go to Planned Parenthood all the time for my annual gyn exam, BC prescription and pills at a cost based on my income.

That is effed up if regulations in your area prevent them from basically providing the service they were created to do.

[Ilsa]

73. Yeah, she'll need $100-$150 for a pap and exam, and that's

probably at a discount. Perhaps calling a few docs ahead of time and telling them she is a cash customer will help, that and the fact that she is healthy, a nonsmoker, and just needs her pap and script. Also, be sure to ask for SAMPLES at the doc's office when she gets her exam. That might load her up with about 3-4 months of pills, which she could use when her script runs out (buying her a few months before having to have another exam).

Our medical system is insane.

[Changenow]

79. Planned Parenthood

was a great source for low or no cost birth control. I'd imagine it still is. There are also local health and family planning resources in many communities.

[truedelphi]

123. But it actaully isn't jsut to the elders and to the young - it is a calamity to everyone

We ended up with a very sick head of household when our one thousand dollar a month
coverage got us inept care. And although no one at Kaiser did me in as badly, I was put on medication without being told about the side effects.

I was denied information that an operation existed that woul dhave helped me immensely until that point in the insurance wherein I could have never had the operation in time (you have to attend a class to hear about the operation first - and that class only meets once a month.)

Then there all the kidney dialysis patients at Kaiser - they were pulled off the kidney transplant lists that they were on with other hospitals so that Kaiser could set up its own transplant program. But it took so long for that to happen that some in that group died. Their bodies just could not afford to wait for Kaiser's program to get put together and then start all over again at the BOTTOm of the list.

[kineneb]

35. my mom just gave me $ to get an eye exam and new glass lenses

I so understand. The state low-income health plan has me with a $284 per month Share of Cost. The expectation is that a couple could live on about $934 per month. Hence, an eye exam and glass lenses would have to come out of my pocket, or rather, Hubby's SSDI.

Yes, it is outrageous.

[winston61]

37. Here where I live to go see a Doctor requires an average of

$200.00 to just walk through the door. That's an un-insured office visit. Then you pay for tests, injections and then prescriptions. You ask them why is it so expensive to see the doctor and they tell you straight-faced that it is how they keep un-insured people out of their offices. But why should I complain? At least they don't say to my face 'Fuck You, go drop dead'. And Sean Hannity tells me everyday that this is the greatest health care system in the world.

[demigoddess]

102. speaking of that, we have a daughter who requires general anesthesia when

she goes to have her teeth worked on. The minute the state required that dental insurance companies cover this, the cost went from 600.00 a time to 1200-1400 dollars each time. I can't help but feel they are bilking the insurance company for all they can. I want universal coverage.

[winston61]

147. Well, of course,

a friend of mine has a compassionate doctor who charges him $15.00US for some blood work, a few dollars above actual cost. For the same test the same doctor charges an insurance company over $100.00US. Even non greed head doctors must find the siren song of all that easy money impossible to resist.

[undeterred]

38. The last time I saw my neurologist he told me to vote for a Democrat

for President and we'll get Universal Health Care. He's a rich doctor in private practice and here he is telling patients to vote for a Democratic president (of course he already knew I was liberal, so no big risk). I asked which one, and he said "any of them". He thinks the Health Care System is a mess.

[AwakeAtLast]

44. Kick for you and your daughter

When I read your post the first thing I thought was, "Oh my God. That was me 12 years ago." I had just been divorced, worked as a temp and lost all of my coverage. I didn't have any for another three years. Never saw a doctor, dentist or eye doctor until I got my full time job. I know exactly how it feels - worrying that something really bad is going to happen. I wish I could do more than commiserate, that's for sure. Just know that when she graduates and gets the job she wants, benefits will come. :hug:

[sandyd921]

46. This is a crime!

The crime is being committed by the corporate interests that have conspired to make a profit from the illness, suffering, and basic health care needs of the working people of this country. Fer cris sake, health care is a basic right of all human beings not a commodity to dole out to those with enough bucks or who are working for the right employer!!!!

[Quantess]

51. Lifeless Neocon Losers are reading this thread and commenting.

Revel in the utter loathsomeness of their responses:

"Is she really so dependent upon the government that she would neglect her own daughter's health??"

"If you want healthcare, GO. TO. THE. COUNTY. HOSPITAL. They can't turn you away. You might have to suffer the indignity of sitting in a waiting room with some of the same people you claim to want to help, but that's life. You are not owed healthcare, but you can get it, anyhow."

My favorite post:
"...daughter has certainly pissed away her life in the fashion that she can only get a job in the mall. Too bad for her. She needs to get a better job and stop expecting the government to do it for her."

Gross. These comments were written by actual people. Granted, they are pathetic losers in several ways, but still...to know that real people actually wrote these repulsive comments after lurking here...it's sad.

[Hoof Hearted]

52. Please PM me. You must allow me the opportunity to fight back. I will be

obsessively discrete.

[Hoof Hearted]

55. I have 12 credit hours of class to go to tomorrow and a separate nursing CEU class

but - fuck me and my family - right?

Christ indeed. Especially in the Christmas season. My daughter has never once asked for a single thing from these pricks.

[Hoof Hearted]

56. I'm not usually anywhere near that angry. Part of me still wants to find

some of those who don't understand redeemable............

[IronLionZion]

83. You want to be a nurse

God bless you. We need more nurses.

[Nutmegger]

57. These people are below sickening.

They disgust me. :puke:

[Connonym]

60. I don't think they're even people

I'm also disgusted.

[Connonym]

63. "They will know we are Christians by our love"

We used to sing song in church. I know catholics are, ironically, hippie like in this belief but certainly it's not the only religion that follows this? Neonut-coms and fundies -- what they hell do they believe? I refuse to believe it's the same god that I grew up on. Their lack of love and love of greed seems to me more like worship of something inherently evil. But anyway, this song immediately came to mind when I read this. I'd be religious again if it was by these principles

We are one in the Spirit, we are one in the Lord.
We are one in the Spirit, we are one in the Lord.
And we pray that all unity may one day be restored.

Chorus:
And they'll know we are Christians
By our love, by our love,
Yes they'll know we are Christians by our love.

We will walk with each other, we will walk hand in hand.
We will walk with each other, we will walk hand in hand.
And together we'll spread the news that God is in our land.

Chorus:
And they'll know we are Christians
By our love, by our love,
Yes they'll know we are Christians by our love.

We will work with each other, we will work side by side.
We will work with each other, we will work side by side.
And we'll guard each man's dignity and save each man's pride.

Chorus:
And they'll know we are Christians
By our love, by our love,
Yes they'll know we are Christians by our love.

[Skittles]

66. fucking stupid assholes

what goes around comes around and fuck it, I hope it hits them HARD

[raccoon]

74. Where is this? On the usual suspect site? nt

[Hoof Hearted]

94. That's what I was trying to find out too! Who and WHERE are these people?

This is the young lady they so flippantly, callously speak of:



She's a real person. She shouldn't have to go begging for a routine office exam in this country. Assholes.

If somebody finds out where this is being posted I would really appreciate a link.

[racaulk]

131. I will send you a PM.

I believe it is against DU's rules to post links to that website publicly on this discussion board.

Your daughter is beautiful, by the way.

[Hoof Hearted]

140. Thanks! She's also a good person and a hard worker - I thought that was supposed to count for

something with those kinds of people, but you know what? Screw them.

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[robbedvoter]

148. You don't need to go to the dark side - just see # 95 right here

[StClone]

53. She may Qualify for student health services

These can range from average to adequate and many colleges offer them to students meeting the criteria.

[Blue_In_AK]

54. I hear ya!

I gave my daughter an ophthalmologist visit one year because she has really bad eyes and couldn't afford to go get them checked. It sucks.

[glowing]

58. This is the reason why you are going to find that a lot of children are

going to come back and fuck these assholes hard... When I was growing up, my parents had a job and the benefits were there. It didn't even cost us co-pays to go to the docs.. somewhere closer towards highschool.. that changed. I worked my ass off.. 40hrs a week and went full time to college, maintained an apartment, and did what I was supposed to. Then the real world hit... no benefits, sucky pay, college loan debt (still paying), and adults telling me to wait my turn.. Well, this was 10yrs ago.. college tuition is thru the roof along with everything else. We don't have a chance. We ask our parents, who are burdened by their older parents, for things like glasses and dental visits as gifts... Its only getting worse every year. I'm glad to know its hitting those who have had their jobs, benefits, and the "pay comes with time and experience" crowd because nothing is sacred.

I graduated the same year asshat took office.. In this short time he has managed to piss off everyone and put a lot of families on the teetering brink of collapse. A few more jobs and a few more homes may just bring everyone to his door.. but then it will be 08 and the dem candidate will feel the full brunt of the housing collapse and be dealing with the war and recession at the same time. That person better be able to take on a New Green Deal to open up jobs, create universal healthcare, do something about the horrible trade agreements, and slam the door on the Feds...

[Connonym]

61. This makes me brokenhearted

Medical care is a basic human right in any country that claims to be civilized. Food, water, shelter and medical care -- by virtue of being human these are the least that we can offer to every person. And *they* call themselves Christian yet go against everything that Christ asked that we do. That's almost the most sickening part of it all.

I'm so, so sorry Hoof Hearted. We need the revolution and we need it soon. I wish you and your daughter a new year that brings (for all of us) a change in the world and better times ahead. I must believe it will happen because I'm not ready to give up on humanity yet.

[avrdream]

62. When I was in private practice in rural Texas,

I sold cheap gift certificates for routine gynecological exams because it was one way that I could get people like your daughter seen. If they got the "gift" from a friend, they would be less embarassed and actually make the appointment.

I remember getting paid for visits in bags of whatever vegetable was in season - the local farm workers would give their wives/daughters/etc the bags because they didn't have the money and they felt ashamed about getting "free" care.

As many here have observed, I gave up on the Health Care System in the U.S. and came down to Australia to work for a while. Universal Health Care actually works here and there is no damn excuse for not making it happen at home.

[Skittles]

65. you're a sweetie pie

:thumbsup:

[Hoof Hearted]

144. Thanks for helping those girls in Texas. I'm sure you saved some future families

the devastation of infertility, and a few lives as well. I don't blame you for heading south.

[quiethm75]

64. We're in the same boat.

It really sucks. And it makes me SICK that the repubs don't give a rat's ass about people like us.

[PA Democrat]

67. And the filthy profiteers are already selling gift cards for health care expenses

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07306/830560-114.stm

Just in time for the holidays, you'll be able to buy Dad a gift card that pays for his semiannual trip to the urologist.

That's gotta rank below socks and underpants, no?

But Highmark Inc., the Pittsburgh-based health insurer, hopes its new Healthcare Gift Card will encourage people who might be reluctant to visit the doctor or spend their money on prescriptions -- namely, seniors and college students -- to do so.

The card itself costs $4.95, and can be loaded with as little as $25, which might cover a prescription co-pay, to as much as $5,000, which could pay for an elective surgery, such as Lasik.

http://www.givewell.com/

It makes me sick.

[Hoof Hearted]

127. That's just about as bad as the McInsurance that's apparently now being hawked at McDonald's.

No kidding. The local McD's (tiny town, we only have 2) both have banners on the top of them advertising health insurance for "as low as $49 dollars a month. You can smell that rat for blocks.

[boobooday]

68. My daughter asked for dental care

her circumstances are identical to your daughter's. And she actually has insurance through her job, but she still can't afford her share of the charges.

It is absurd.

[4_TN_TITANS]

71. Mine want eye doctor and dentist trips.

Not for x-mas but soon. I will have some benefits kick in after the first of the year, but it's been a year since our family has had either of those.

[Summer93]

77. Any ideas out there?

Two questions:

Do any of you remember reading about a group of doctors who were working outside the "insurance" system. They charged a straight fee in cash for a visit/ Sort of like the old days when doctors actually did the work themselves. (When I was a kid a got a large splinter in my foot, was taken to the local "Doc", he numbed my foot and surgically removed the splinter then and there and stitched it up.)

Second, do the current doctors realize that they are getting all of the negative associations that come with belonging to the "insurance" industry? If an insurance co. charges $300 for an 8 minute office visit - how much does the doctor get out of that amount?

[chicagomd]

93. Two answers:

1) Nope.
2) The negative associations that are becoming so apparent here on DU have no basis in reality for most physicians. No one "belongs" to the insurance industry. In fact, most physicians hate the insurance industry. If you open an office in a city where BC/BS has a 75% market penetration you have no choice, if you want to stay in business, but to get "in-network" so you will have patients that will come and see you.

That contract locks you into a payment schedule that basically puts you into a socialized system of payment. If I want to charge $120.00 for an office visit (the charge is based on complexity, history taken, and physical performed, btw. Time is only a factor is there is a lot of counseling done) because I feel the market supports that amount it does not matter.

Here is what happens in a PPO system from the physician's side:

Physician sets a fee schedule for the office visit. Physician sends your insurance company a bill for the visit minus the co-payment amount. The insurance decides to pay or deny. Denials are a whole 'nother can of worms. If they decide to pay they pay according to your contract which is usually 80-90% for an "in-network" physician. Here is the kicker: They get to decide how much that visit is worth, and they pay you 80-90% of that amount. So if the physician looks at the market and decides to set his or her fee at $120.00 because that is what the market will support, the insurance company can just say "You know what? We feel that in your current market your services are only worth $100.00, so here is $80.00. If you want more bill the patient."

The reason why people with private insurance pay more than those on Medicaid is because physicians are forbidden by law from billing Medicaid patients directly. Fewer and fewer physicians want to take public aid patients because the payments are so much lower, and you have no recourse to collect the difference.

Socialized payment in a free-market society. Good times.

[emmadoggy]

142. There's a place like that in LaCrosse, WI.

It's actually a branch of the major hospital/clinic in that town, but it is essentially a walk-in, urgent care clinic with a flat office fee of something like $45.00 (I think? I remember seeing a news story on it on our local news and it was a while back, so I don't remember the particulars.)

[cureautismnow]

78. Our system is without question BROKEN.

Everyone should be provided basic health care. It's immoral to let others suffer just because they don't have $$$'s. Furthermore, no one should be allowed to make a profit based on denying someone else health care. It's outrageous.

Even those with "insurance" are getting ripped off in this system. I have health care "insurance" and yet have to pay $75 out-of-pocket to visit an urgent care clinic. Emergency room visits cost $150. What a racket - Pay me now AND pay me now again.

Those employed in the health care insurance industry work for blood money. I'd like to see all HMO's outlawed.

[Kali]

80. I know exactly where BOTH you and your daughter are coming from.

I haven't been to a dentist in a whole human generation. Thank goodness we seem to have good minerals in the water here. My kids have never really experienced regular routine healthcare (maybe there are some advantages to that!) and for the half dozen serious emergencies through the years we managed to qualify for our state run indigent emergency care programs. They were an absolute nightmare of bs paperwork that had to be done RIGHT now while you would rather be focused on injured/sick kid but at least no lifelong debt on the other side.

My small town Doc has a reasonable office visit rate, about $45 last time I went and no matter what is involved he never charges much over that if he knows you aren't insured.

Its obscene to make claims that the US is great, and some kind of world leader, and not take care of its own citizens' health.

[Bluzmann57]

81. Glad you and your husband are going to help her out

You are indeed good parents.
Recently, there was a story in our local paper about a former minor league football coach who used to coach our AF2 team and got fired. He was up in Wisconsin fishing when he got an infection from a bug bite or something. He got sicker and lapsed into a coma before passing away at age 53. The main reason he died was because he had no health insurance. Doctors stated that he would have lived had he sought medical help. It is a very sad situation, a wife is left a widow, his kids have no father all because he couldn't afford to buy health insurance. So I agree with the last line of your post, This is indeed wrong and has to stop. If I may use a cliche, Health care is a right, not a privilege. Why should anyone not be able to recieve quality health care? There is absolutely no reason for it other than greed.

[Hatchling]

82. Omg. I used to feel so sorry for myself.

Because I'm disabled and have to live on $900 a month, but in the last year I have read more and more posts like yours and I have become grateful and outraged. I'm on Medicare and Medi-Cal. I can visit my doctor anytime I need to, even if it's something minor. In the last year I had major surgery, physical therapy, visits to a neurosurgeon, a neurologist, an endocrinologist and had a sleep study specialist prescribe a C-pap machine for me, all at no cost to me. I feel rich now.

I am very grateful I have these service and I am outraged that others can't get them. The medical services I get should be available to every American! They wouldn't even have to create a new system just enroll everyone in the system they already have.

[leftist_not_liberal]

84. I wish I believed any "electable" Dem would actually solve your problem.

They are too beholden to PROFITS to -really- fix things.

HR 676 NOW.

Anything else is just another Fuck You from the rulers...

[mdmc]

85. I wish the frontrunners were willing to help you my friend.

None of the Dem plans would help your poor daughter. Only Kucinich would stand for the working poor.

Sad, cause nothing will change for those in your daughter's situation unless Kucinich has some influence.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

ps- I don't mean to be a dick but at least your daughter has someone that she can reach out to for assistance. Most of us do not and it really sucks.

[cannabis_flower]

86. My daughter is in similar situation...

because of personal reasons (bronchitis and asthma, no car, no job, no money,funding and moving), she didn't get to start college in the fall. My job says she can have insurance until she is 18 or until she reaches 21 if she is in college. She turned 19 in October and they cut her off immediately, although they said that she can be added back if she starts college in the spring.

She now has a good part-time job and has money saved up. I hope she is able to start college in the spring so I can put her back on my insurance.

[mdmc]

87. nice !

:toast:

[mdmc]

88. ps - I was in the same boat when the BigDog was president

Pray for Kucinich cause the rest of the runners ain't nothin but playas.

[napi21]

92. I think you're being a bit unfair. The general support of universal

HC simply didn't exist when BD was President! It DOES NOW! In all fairness, Hillary DID try, and she accurately predicted what was going to happen with HC if notheing was done, but few people believed her then.

[mdmc]

107. The general support is coming around

too bad none of the front runners have caught the bug yet.

[robbedvoter]

100. Actually, I could afford the medical visits THEN

[hfojvt]

95. How often is a routine office exam?

Because an office exam is only about $100 right? Surely she could afford that twice a year. Most people are paying more than that for their cell phones and/or cable TV.

[robbedvoter]

98. Nice of you to assume. Some of non-"most people" (like you) don't even have a cell phone

But that's precisely the GOP attitude - as per the famous Raygun joke: "You show me hungry people in America? I see people on a diet".
But I am relieved you informed me of this - I'll tell my daughter and she will be very happy to hear that she's missing a cheap comfort.

[benEzra]

139. We don't have cable, either...

and I own an ancient hand-me-down Motorola cell phone with prepaid minutes, because that's about all I can fucking afford with my son's medical issues. We only got broadband about three months ago, and only because our local dialup provider had gotten so bad that we were connecting at 9600 bps, and we NEED the internet (we have special-needs kid).

And yes, I went without a primary-care physician for years (even though we have insurance), until my son finally qualified for CAP Medicaid late last year and freed up some money in the budget. I even got turned away from urgent care once when I had pneumonia (even though I had insurance), because they demanded that I pay for the doctor's visit AND the X-rays up front, cash or check, before they'd see me, and insurance could reimburse me later. I didn't have the money, so I went home and toughed it out. Good thing I am generally healthy...

[Hoof Hearted]

143. She's the working poor. She doesn't have cable or a cell phone. You don't get out much do you?

Her money goes to:

Housing
Food
Gas
Education
Heat and light

There is no money left over. Which item on that list do you imagine she should do without? "Only" a hundred dollars is A LOT OF MONEY to many people. I'm glad you don't have any personal experience with that, but it would behoove you to gain a greater understanding of the circumstances facing those less fortunate than you.

[aquart]

97. Emailed the link and subject heading to all my elected reps.

And asked them how they justified it.

Who else should get it?

[Name removed]

104. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hoof Hearted]

105. Fuck you hard Troll. I hope you personally are devestated by a terrible health crisis and your

family leaves you and your cold black heart, and your tiny little mind on the sidewalk.

[Name removed]

108. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hoof Hearted]

110. No baby, not "my fellow man". You - do not qualify as either fellow or human.

[Quantess]

118. You are really stupid.

There probably isn't a way to cure that.
I thought you conservatives were supposed to be about "compassion". A Christian Nation, and all that.

[hfojvt]

137. there is the parable of the Good Samaritan

However, the person that he helped had been beaten unconscious and was lying there bleeding and helpless. A person who really needed help. Sometimes it seems like others just get tired (or perhaps worse yet, are like the grasshopper who plays and fiddles while the ant works, then when the hardship comes, demands that the ant help) while walking along the road, and then demand help and yell curses at anyone who will not help them. Maybe we are all kinda tired, even those who have transportation sometimes only have that transportation because we worked and scrimped to get it.

[mdmc]

106. you will fit in here quite nicely my friend

do HRC proud:patriot:

[Hoof Hearted]

109. That "person" obviously is no Hillary supporter, or Dem, or progressive, or human.

Just a black, empty hole.

[mdmc]

112. I think they state the capitalist ideology very well

But perhaps you are right my friend. Peace and low stress. I think that the poster is a true blue dlc'er. Not much difference between that and a troll...

[Name removed]

116. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mdmc]

119. I agree that we would have never got bigdog without the DLC

I disagree that the left will never get its shake.
I cherish the thought of 8 more years of neo-con foreign policy - it is the fastest way to get to a real new deal.

So, like other liberals, I take it in stride. If HRC wins, then we get 8 more neo-con rule.
Perhaps we will get someone as bad as Bush next year, or in 2012.

Perhaps, after another 16 years of neo-con rule, the sheeple will crave the empathy of the left.

Time alone, time will tell.

Peace and low stress. And, again, welcome to DU. You should fit in quite nicely.:toast::patriot:

[Name removed]

115. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mdmc]

117. I do know that

I think in many ways what you wrote here is more democrat then I am or the poster that you are replying to.

For the record, I am a liberal. I actually do want a minimum safety net for medical coverage for everyone. A wealthy private sector system (like we have in education) could be placed on top of that. Many fiscal conservatives agree with me (because we already pay for socialized medicine, in the emergency room) and understand that it is more responsible (not to mention compassionate).

Perhaps we all have things to learn:shrug:

peace and low stress...

[Quantess]

120. Maybe you should get a life of your own

and not obsess over what we libs are posting on DU.

[Quantess]

114. There's pathetic, and then there's PATHETIC.

I'll tell you what is pathetic. Unloved, psychologically damaged, self-loathing, neo-cons who peer at DU from under a slimy rock. Occasionally we catch a fetid whiff of their presence.

[mdmc]

122. I couldn't tell if they were a hillbot or a troll

:shrug:
I thought they were pretty dlc, imho:shrug:

[Hoof Hearted]

124. Naw, I have my issues with DLC but this one is PURE troll. The decaying remains of their

wanting and deficient souls and the attendant stench are hard to miss.

[mdmc]

125. You were correct my friend

I still stand by what I posted.

Peace and low stress to you and yours. :toast:

[mdmc]

133. I didn't realize that this was your OP my friend.

Good luck to you and yours. Peace and low stress...

[Hoof Hearted]

136. Thanks mdmc, peace to you and yours too.

:hi:

[Quantess]

128. Look at my post #52.

Pretty sure someone at that site saw my post and the responses, then decided to post here.
I've already had a shower today, so I don't plan to return to that loserish, stalkerish site anytime soon.

Edit: the cat stepped on the keyboard just as I hit the post button, LOL!

[mdmc]

130. thank you my friend

I don't have a CU account (I rarely get props over there).
I do have a FR account and a PI account.
I follow the rules so I shouldn't get TS'ed (sometimes here I get close to the line - I am very much a liberal, progressive - I don't see our party as infallible).
There are some things that I am conservative about. Very little, I guess, but enough to post. At least I am a practicing catholic that likes guns (I support gun control for everyone else, not me :) ).

[Quantess]

135. I sent you a PM.

:hi:

[mdmc]

149. thank you my friend

(too late to edit)
:(

[Hoof Hearted]

138. My cats often "help" me type too, LOL. -

It is THAT site?

I caught a little bit of the Discovery show, "Dirty Jobs". They were doing Katrina cleanup in abandoned houses. At first blush I thought to myself "I've never seen that many cockroaches in my life" - but then I realized........ Yes I have. When I go to THAT site.

[JerseygirlCT]

132. You're joking, I hope

Either that, or we won't be seeing much of you in the future I guess.

[Lorien]

141. You'd RATHER enrich some fat cat corporate CEO with your insurance $$$?

Just how fucking brainwashed are you?? You're paying out the ass for medical insurance that may or may not cover you when needed. The doctors don't benefit from it, the patients get screwed, but you or your employers just keep on smiling and paying. Makes you feel good to give em' that extra yacht payment, doesn't it? Maybe you don't pay for your own insurance? Well, guess what, your employer could afford to pay you a hell of a lot more if he or she weren't covering your ill informed ass.

The "government" is such an evil boogyman to you. A government elected of, by, and for the people of the United States of America. You'd rather have the "free market" corporations control America, wouldn't you? That's called fascism, dear. And it's anti-American and anti-Freedom. Ever wonder how other countries ended up with monarchies? Long ago, the richest seized power and decided that they would become the overlords; the rest of the nation would work to make them even richer and more powerful. That's the system YOU support; only now the overlords are named GE, Disney, Wal-Mart, Phizer, Bechtel, Halliburtan... You don't believe in America at all. You have nO IDEA what a Democracy is, do you? You've done nothing but guzzle the Kool Aid your overlords hand you on Fox "news".

Universal single payer health care is CHEAPER for all than the current system, and much better for doctors and patients alike.You get covered for preventative medicine and routine exams,which saves money and lives. It just doesn't enrich your beloved overlords, so it's no surprise that you want nothing to do with a system that actually WORKS.

[bdamomma]

111. this regime in the WH, is putting the nose around us citizens necks

they are squeezing the shit out of american citizens, this must stop, the divide is getting wider and wider, rich vs. poor this must end now.

[fiamma mama]

129. some people are getting desperate for health care

I'm assuming many of you heard about the bomb threat/ hostage situation at Hillary Clinton's New Hampshire headquarters?

http://www.wgme.com/News/story_detail/story_detail_2.shtml?readmore

I'm cutting and pasting the article, because the link will be invalid soon. Bold type is my emphasis.
~~~~~~
" Hostage Taker - Plea For Help
Carrie Hopperstad, Executive Producer
Last update: 5 hours 45 minutes ago
The family of a New Hampshire man accused of holding five people hostage at a Hillary Clinton office says his actions were a plea for help.

Forty-six-year-old Leeland Eisenberg of Somersworth faces charges he held the people hostage Friday after claiming to have a bomb taped to his chest. Police said the device turned out to be road flares.

His estranged wife, Lisa Eisenberg, told Foster's Daily Democrat yesterday that her husband had a drinking problem and desperately wanted to enter a detoxification program but lacked insurance and money to pay for it.

She said he saw a Clinton campaign ad on TV where a man identified as Joe Ward said Clinton helped him get health insurance so his son could have a lifesaving bone marrow transplant.

During the standoff with police, authorities said Eisenberg asked to speak with Clinton, but they decided not to involve her in the hostage negotiations.

Eisenberg's stepson, Ben Warren, said he had talked with his stepfather for hours Thursday night. He said he seemed desperate, but suddenly made a decision but Warren said he didn't know what his stepfather had decided to do. "
~~~~~
We need single payer health care. NOW.

[Danger Mouse]

145. That is so sad it breaks my heart.

I'd like to say that it would change under a democratic president, but I am not so sure.
I really want to hope that someone will change our disgusting health care system, but who will stand up to the corporations? Who isn't already bout and paid for?
The insurance industry has VERY deep pockets, and they're playing to win.
We have to do the same. We can't play gentle with these fuckers. Their disgusting practices cause death.