Is There Any Good Reason Why The Parents Of American Citizens Should Be Deported?

[BlooInBloo]

I'm having trouble thinking of any.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8R4OQQ80&show_article=1

" LOS ANGELES (AP) - An illegal immigrant who took refuge in a Chicago church for a year to avoid being separated from her U.S.-born son has been deported to Mexico, the church's pastor said.

Elvira Arellano became an activist and a national symbol for illegal immigrant parents as she defied her deportation order and spoke out from her religious sanctuary. She held a news conference last week to announce that she would finally leave the church to try to lobby U.S. lawmakers for change. "


Anyone who says this is about anything other than "getting them back" is either a liar or a fucking idiot. Or both.

[panader0]

1. Or a "sociopathic jackass" LOL

[BlooInBloo]

47. BLOOOOODDDD!!!!!!

[youngdem]

2. because they are here illegally.

:shrug:

I blame her. She created this problem when she came here and had a child. She split her own family by breaking the law coming here, and having a child, knowing FULL WELL that this could happen.

Sorry. Her fault.

Flame away.

[Wiregrass Willie]

3. You are right

[NYVet]

5. I agree wholeheartedly

In fact, I think that the Constitution should be ammended as so that to become an American citizen, either at least one of your parents need to be American or you go through the naturalization process.

I am tired fo the anchor baby BS.

[truebrit71]

9. Anybody that has light-coloured skin in this country is a fucking "anchor-baby"...

...if she gave birth to the kid here, she should be allowed to stay...

[BlooInBloo]

26. Who says there's no caste system in America?

[NYVet]

91. (Smaller scale) So if someone breaks into your house and has a kid

they should be allowed to stay without fear of arrest?

I'm throwing the bullshit flag on you.

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

267. Who gave this house to "Americans"?

Here's your flag back.

Workers from Latin America have been migrating back and forth seasonally for hundreds of years, to the Pacific Northwest, to the Southwest, along the Gulf Coast. for far longer than the US even had immigration law. Sheesh.

Edit: wrong category in subj line.

[Matariki]

288. So, I'd like to move to Italy - should I schedule giving birth while on vacation there?

Because otherwise I can't get a permanent visa to stay there.

[truebrit71]

291. That would depend on the immigration/citizenship laws in place there...

...now wouldn't it?

[Colorado Progressive]

15. I agree, a parent should be a citizen for child to get citizenship

[Hamlette]

23. The problem is, which country will the child be a citizen of?

when the child is born, we gotta decide which country but I'm not sure hospitals should be deciding questions of citizenship. If mom says she's a citizen of say...Canada, does the US hospital accept that and declare the kid a citizen of Canada. Why would stop a parent in Canada saying they are US citizens and have their kids declared US citizens? Want to make mom prove citizenship? What if she can't? What happens until she can? What "proves" citizenship? HER birth certificate? How would YOU prove your US citizenship? What about dad? What if mom is from Mexico and dad is from Canada and the child is born here. Which country would the child be a citizen of?

Seems to me, babies born here are US citizens because deciding what other country should be the country of citizenship is very difficult and hospitals are not, and should not, be deciding those questions.

[Colorado Progressive]

30. its a legal issue, not up to the hospital. A child would not be issued a SSN

until a parent can provide proof of citizenship, as in a birth certificate and social security card. That's how I got my passport. If there are multiple citizenships w/ the parents the child should get dual citizenship.

edit: booboo

[Hamlette]

70. if the parent can't or doesn't provide proof, what do we do with the child?

it won't ever be able to leave the country (no passport/citizenship) and will be in this country illegally.

I too am "against" anchor babies but the alternative is too harsh for me.

[NYVet]

93. Simple. We send the child home with mom and dad

The law says illegal parents are illegal and there is no gray area.

[Hamlette]

134. if we're willing to actually deport someone, I'm all for it. Problem is, we don't deport n/t

[Critters2]

97. Sending them home with their parents is harsh?!

Seems fair to me.

[LiberalFighter]

62. Generally, children have citizenship of the country that their parents have.

[aquart]

31. Not according to our constitution. READ IT.

Birth is the requirement for citizenship. Born on American soil? Citizen of America. HOW DARE YOU SAY WHAT WAS TRUE FOR THE REST OF US IS UNTRUE FOR THE NEXT GENERATION.

[JuniperLea]

129. American Indians had no citizenship under the Constitution either

I guess the families that came to America weren't citizens, but their kids were? Then how could they become Presidents, Governors, Senators? Who were they to tell the kids born here what to do? Who were they to pass laws to govern us, when they weren't one of us?

[Angleae]

247. But they do under Title 8 USC, Section 1401

www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_00001401----000-.html

[Manifestor_of_Light]

316. It's called the 14th Amendment to the Constitution.

[LiberalFighter]

55. The parents at a minimum should have legally immigrated to US with intent to be permanent residents

They shouldn't have to be a citizen but be in the US legally.

And any child born with parents illegally in the US should not be a citizen.

Then maybe we could deprive some of the rights that Alberto Gonzales has never earned.

[Bluebear]

59. So you want to change the US Constitution over this?

[NYVet]

96. Our social system is being overloaded and can't keep up

with our own people who need help.

We don't have the resources to take care of the entire world.

[truebrit71]

102. Bullshit....

...are you sure you're on the right site? :puke:

[hunter]

115. We don't? When are you leaving this world?

We don't have the resources to take care of you.

:sarcasm:

God, nationalism is a disease.

Why should I care more or less about NYVet than anyone else?

Veteran or Veterinarian?

If you are a veteran, I assume you were fighting for Liberty and Justice and all that, rather than some broken and corrupt homeland.

[Bluebear]

130. But I am betting you think Iraq is a great idea?

[treestar]

196. That is baloney and has been proven wrong over and over

False right wing talking point.

[noamnety]

248. Excellent point.

I believe it's the same one that was used to turn Jewish immigrants away during WWII. We sent them back to the concentration camps where they died.

Hmmm. Maybe "excellent" isn't the right word to describe that.

[treestar]

192. Too complicated

It's not worth it. Just let them be citizens if born here, otherwise you will have an entire class of people here with no rights. We don't want the government to get used to that.

You'll have third and fourth generation undocumented immigrants.

Come on, it's not that bad. They're people just like you. They're not hurting you in any substantive way. When it comes to kids, it's not their fault. Why punish them because their parents violated an immigration law? We don't punish kids whose parents commit felonies.

[Wesman 85]

271. you say we don't punish the children of felons

and I whole heartedly disagree. Do you think foster care or going to live with a relative is fun for a child when a parent is sent to prison? To that child it is punishment. They very rarely get the love and support that they long for from an "alternate care giver". This woman chose to come here in violation of the law, chose to give birth, chose to seek sanctuary in the church, chose to leave the church to go on this trip, and chose to LEAVE HER SON BEHIND when she was deported.

[GirlinContempt]

277. These choices are often really hard for people to understand.

A lot of immigrants are leaving horrible squalor and poverty behind. I'd probably leave my child behind than bring them with me to be poisoned by unclean drinking water or sleep in a field without any food.

[aquart]

33. The constitution should be amended to discriminate against BABIES?

That's your decision? Tell me, only BROWN babies?

[NYVet]

101. I don't care if they are black, white, red, yellow, brown, blue or green...

Mom and dad are illegal, send them all home to the point of origin.

[orleans]

244. well, aren't you just filled with the spirit of FAMILY FUCKING VALUES

my, my, my....

should we kick out the little u.s. citizen as well? i mean, these children of the parents we boot back will surely be a drain on social services--since they'll be hanging around with no parents to take care of them.

and by the way: THERE ARE NO BLUE OR GREEN PEOPLE SO YOU WON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT ANY OF THEM

[NYVet]

317. We should not reward the children of people who break our laws

And the Blue or green was a joke. I'm sorry that you missed it.

And why should the children of law breakers benifit from their parents actions?

[truebrit71]

268. And what happens to the minor child that is the US citizen? Orphanage perhaps?

Or maybe the poor house? I know!! How about a workcamp for US children born by illegal immigrants!!!


Yeah!! That's a GREAT idea!!!

Oh, and when are you going home to YOUR point of origin? Unless you are a Native American you get to say exactly DICK about who stays and who goes from this land and think you have any sort of moral authority on your side...

Your anti-immigrant bile is unbecoming to someone who CLAIMS to be a progressive...

[alarimer]

131. That is the worst idea

How many generations back would you go?

And of course, anyone with brown skin would be especially scrutinized.

[Gormy Cuss]

159. The term "anchor baby" conjures up an image of a woman waddling over the border just before delivery

The reality is that many of these "anchor babies" are born long after the parent became an unauthorized resident (I use that term because not all of them arrived here illegally, some of them came are here on expired visas.)

Not all of the American citizen children involved in these cases are babies. They're kids who think of themselves as Americans first, and ethnically of the country of the parent's birth. To simply shrug and say "tough break, kid" is something I am not willing to do. It's the same thinking as cutting off welfare benefits to able-bodied parents and turning a blind eye to the hardships placed on the children involved.

I don't at all like the morass of illegal immigration in this country but using the children as weapons against the parents is cold. If a person is living in the country illegally long enough to have a baby why not make OUR country take some responsibility for allowing the situation to occur in the first place?

[cherokeeprogressive]

322. Not "waddling over the border", but paying coyotes like other undocumented immigrants.

When I was a teacher, I had a co-worker who came to teaching in the 80's after giving up her 15 year career as a social worker for Los Angeles County. According to her, there are actually hostels south of the border where women stay until they're as close to their due date as possible. She was more or less shown the door after making a stink about it.

It's not new, and it happens a LOT more than people would care to admit.

[Thothmes]

255. I agree completely

[TahitiNut]

6. I agree.

:shrug:

Nobody is saying the child can't accompany her back home. NOBODY is "splitting them up."

[alarimer]

133. We cannot be deporting AMERICAN citizens

How cruel and inhumane.

[TahitiNut]

150. Red herring. NOBODY is "deporting AMERICAN citizens"

Her son is free to accompany her, stay with his father (wherever HE is). or she can arrange for his guardianship. It's THEIR choice ... and it's a situation she created by ILLEGALLY entering his country, not once, but TWICE ... and by identity fraud with false papers and SSN.

She regards, IN HER OWN WORDS, Mexico as "her country." By her own statement, she shows no "immigration" status.

[JuniperLea]

151. It's not deporting...

No one is forcing him to stay, or to leave. He is a minor child and his parents are the only people who can make that decision.

[snappyturtle]

7. Well, I'm not going to flame you. If there weren't legal ways to

enter the country then I'd have to re-think this. It's not fair to those who have come here legally.

[susanna]

222. That's my conundrum, lately.

I work with a young man who is attempting to get citizenship (he's from Mexico). You wanna talk about someone who thinks Mexican illegal immigrants are one of the lowest life forms on earth? Talk to this guy, who is trying - through legal means - to get his American citizenship. The stuff this guy thinks about his countrymen who are doing it the "other way" would shock most folks senseless.

I'm not sure about this debate and I normally stay out of it because of that, but this is one thing I can attest to from my own experience. We just don't talk about it, mostly, because I'm pretty unbiased and see both sides of the debate. He does not. At all.

on edit: better wording

[TechBear_Seattle]

10. I hate myself for agreeing with you

The constitution says the child is a citizen. However, the mother is not. It is heartbreaking, but I don't see what can be done short of revisiting the 14th Amendment. And given the current political climate, I don't think that would be a very good idea right now.

[aquart]

32. Maybe you haven't found the party that suits you.

Really. The lack of human feeling in your statement makes me as uncomfortable as the idea of decent treatment for a mother and child seems to make you.

[youngdem]

36. She can take her child back to her home country with her

When he is old enough, he can return.

Don't question which party I belong to though. Perhaps you should review what the current Repuke vs. Dem positions on this issue are anyway.

AND, perhaps if you thought for a moment what unchecked illegal immigration does to the working class in this country, YOU might reconsider what party might fit you better, because to ME, any honest, real Democrat would protect unions and the working class, NOT destroy them by inviting unchecked illegal immigration because it makes them feel warm and fuzzy. It is currently the REPUKE position to allow more of this to finish off the middle class and keep the fat cats fat with profits from near-slave wages they can pay these desperate people.

Illegal immigration depresses wages, HURTS unions, taxes public services like hospitals and schools, and it is a security risk to have millions of people here who should not be.

[Critters2]

74. Thank you!

:applause:

[gaspee]

100. the middle class

And unions were not broken up over the past 30-40 years because of immigrants.

The problems we have faced over the past 30 to 40 years were backlash of the counter-culture and those self-same "working class" people falling for the right wing and religious rhetoric and voting agasint their own best interests.


I happen to be one of those middle class people from a blue collar family. And I've seen it with my very own eyes. And I am from a very liberal state.

If the working class didn't vote against their own interests because the republicans would protect them from the brown people, outlaw abortion and wave the flag, this country would be a very different place.

Not all of our problems are caused by illegal immigration.

[LiberalFighter]

52. The United States is not breaking up the family

It is the family and others that try to imply that will happen when nothing prevents the illegals from taking their child(ren) with them when deported.


If a family immigrating illegally to the United States and has a child they should not have preferential rights because of illegal activity. If a person or family immigrates to the United States legally I would give immediate family members preference to immigrate.

[Bluebear]

57. How kind-hearted. nt

[Rockholm]

78. 100% AGREE with you!

[JuniperLea]

THEN she found a great hiding place...

THEN she held a press conference telling the entire nation that she was going to leave said hiding place and head for another location. THEN she told the entire nation where that location was, all but page and map book number.

This whole thing stinks. I smell a RW, divisive set-up.

No one is dividing her family... she is free to bring her child home with her.

Here we are, wondering if the bridges can hold all the extra traffic, smelling the stench of overflowing sewage on our beaches because the sewer infrastructure can't keep up with the increasing number of people it is servicing, we can't get in to see a doctor in the emergency room because it is full of people who don't have insurance and can't be turned away... here we are wondering how long we will have good water to drink before all the snow stops coming... here we are with 60+ kids in a class meant for 20, here we are on a freeway meant for 50 cars per mile that is now carrying 500 cars per mile... can we please fix what we have before we invite others to share it with us?

[proud2BlibKansan]

231. How progressive of you!

Such compassion and warmth!!

:sarcasm:

[ComerPerro]

284. I know, right?

:eyes:

[dipsydoodle]

4. I read about this earlier today

From this morning in BBC News :



Ms Arellano was handed over to Mexican authorities in Tijuana at 2200 (0500GMT) and freed, Mexican officials said.

Elvira Arellano and Saul made a powerful emotional case for keeping the families of illegal immigrants together.

Last November, Saul went to Mexico's Congress to make a personal appeal for help to stop his mother's deportation

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6954639.stm

Now compare that situation with this story :
The man who knifed head teacher Philip Lawrence to death has been allowed to stay in the UK after winning an appeal against deportation.
Learco Chindamo, 26, is serving a life sentence for killing Mr Lawrence outside his London school in 1995.
Chindamo's lawyers argued that deporting him to Italy, where he was born, would breach his human rights.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6955071.stm

There is somehting seriously wrong with both of our countries.

[BooScout]

11. I caught that on the news tonight....

Disgraceful is putting it mildly. What about the human rights of the family of the Philip Lawrence?

[bleedingheart]

16. Mexico's largest profitable export is cheap labor

until the people of Mexico rise up and look to fix their country...they will continue to send people over the border for a better life..

[napi21]

20. Nobody is trying to split families that I know of!

Her child is a US citizen because he was born here. She is NOT! She must return to her home Country and take her child with her!

I don't know Mexican law, but my neice had 2 children in Japan. THEY are dual citizens! She and her husband are not! I don't see anything wrong with the children being able to live where ever they want when they reach 18. Until then, they are the responsibility of their parents, and if Mom, Dad or both must return to their home country,take the kids with you!

[LeftishBrit]

40. Yes. In the UK, real asylum seekers are treated as criminals, and criminals from overseas escape

deportation (usually not through a deliberate decision as here, but through sheer incompetence of the authorities).

Similar in the USA?

[NeedleCast]

228. Not Really

I work in the DoJ - Immigration Court (EOIR). Asylum is hard to get here. Burden of proof falls on the applicant to prove that if they are returned to their home country there is a high probability they will be harmed by the government of that country or an agent working for the government of that country. Otherwise, asylum applications are taken pretty seriously and a large amount of the immigration court's time is spent hearing these types of cases, which in many cases drag on several years...in an immigration system that is already woefully over-burdened.

There are some countries of origin where Asylum is almost a guarantee. Cuba, Turkmenistan and Dar fur are a few. For Cuban asylum cases, if you make it to dry ground on US soil (the "feet dry" rule), you're a citizen in all but name. It'll take two years to muddle through all the court proceedings and paperwork, but we never send people back to Cuba. For aliens from a country like Turkmenistan, unless they get picked up by DHS totting a christmas bag of Khalishnikovs and cocaine, they're probably going to get asylum.

[TahitiNut]

120. "Mexico's Congress"??

Since when does "Mexico's Congress" make U.S. immigration law?

Obviously, NOBODY is against "keeping this family together" (except perhaps her) since her child can go with her. This is a situation of her own making.

[BooScout]

8. Because she is in the US illegally....

...would be one reason. She doesn't get a pass from me by hiding in a church behind her religion and she deosn't get a pass for having a child who is 'legal' either.


My husband and I jumped through a million hoops for him to immigrate legally to the States and then the same again for me to immigrate legally to the UK. We did all the endless paperwork. We paid the fees. We waited and we waited and we waited some more. Why is this woman different than anyone else wanting to come to the US? What makes her special? Not a damned thing.....She jumped the que and now she needs to leave. Too freaking bad. She get's no sympathy from me.

[Sapere aude]

12. I hope you get the same sympathy from people when you need it.

Why is it so cool to be so hard hearted these days? How is she hurting you? How is your life going to change for the worse if she stays.

Your attitude makes you a much worse person in my opinion than she will ever be.

[BooScout]

28. What the hell do you know about my attitude?

My attitude is directly affected by people like her. My husband and I both had to go through numerous background checks because of people who abuse the system. We paid thousands of dollars and pounds and we are still paying £££'s to do it the legal way. Money we really can't afford but since we would like to live in the same country together we do it for love of one another.

Have you ever sat in a US airport or in a BCIS office and been grilled by an immigration officer regarding your LEGAL visa and why you are in the States? I doubt it. Have you signed an affidavit swearing you will make sure you spouse doesn't go on welfare or public assistance for 10 years? I doubt it. Have you begged and pleaded with your congressman or senator to help you find out why the BCIS is sitting on your husband's visa approval for months on end and won't respond to your queries and then have your senator or congressman tell you they can't get anywhere with BCIS either? I doubt it? Even though by law your husband's visa application is SUPPOSED to be expedited in a timely manner.

She is hurting me because it's people that abuse the system that make it more difficult and expensive for people who do it the legal way.

Your attitude makes you ignorant on the issue and how it does affect others so you can get off your high horse by slamming me for my opinions on the subject and telling me how bad a person I am.

[Exiled in America]

42. Well said. You're right on this one. I don't have the answer to the immigration problem.

And I have deep sympathies for human beings who desperately want a shot at a better life... and I certainly oppose some of the extreme measures proposed by xenophobic, racist conservatives who really want to deport everyone who isn't white skinned.....

However, at least I acknowledge that there is a problem, and that unfettered illegal immigration has terrible consequences to people here legally.. and that has to be addressed.

[Zookeeper]

51. You will find that your personal experience really doesn' t...

matter to some on this board, if it doesn't fit into their inflexible belief-system on this issue. (If you're from a European country, you are not allowed to complain.)

[BooScout]

54. I'm a gosh be darned American

Living in the UK..........and have experienced immigration the legal way in two countries now. I get to complain but it doesn't count.:evilgrin:

[nosillies]

215. Damn straight, Boo

:applause:

Having also LEGALLY been through the immigration process at great expense, both monetary and mental, I know where you coming from. Anyone who has not been through an immigration process or does not in some way work with immigration issues doesn't have a fucking clue about what really goes on.

What makes this woman more special than me or my husband? Why do people feel so sorry for her? I have no doubt that my husband and I and our children would get jack-shit in the way of sympathy if we were in this position.

I don't hate brown-skinned people. I don't hate babies. I don't give much of a shit who comes here. They'd just better do it legally, by God, because they're no better than anyone else, and NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.

If countries treat legal immigrants and those seeking asylum like shit, while turning a blind eye to those who are breaking the law, then those countries have serious, serious flaws in their immigration processes.

[TahitiNut]

223. Did you notice the immediate compassion from the "sympathy cop"??

Some folks like to play the card ... but never pay up when they lose the pot. Tell your hubby I said "Welcome!"

I sure hope the BCIS assholes get off their butts and y'all get out of RedTapeHell.

:hi:

[noamnety]

246. Obviously it's money you CAN afford

though it may cause you some hardship. You're paying it, right? So you have access to that kind of money, somehow.

Some people aren't so privileged that they HAVE a way to scrape together the money. I can't believe there are people here that don't get that.

[Dorian Gray]

313. Those same people pay "Coyotes"

thousands of dollars to get them over the borders. They often are paying out loads of money.

Immigration sucks in the USA, but my ex went through the LONG and arduous process legally. He paid less than $1,000 in fees all together, which is a lot cheaper than paying someone to import you illegally into this country.

[Critters2]

77. She used a stolen Social Security number

Which hurt the person whose identity she stole.

She's a criminal, and needs to be deported.

[orleans]

245. if she was working i believe that means she has been paying into

someone else's social security

[Critters2]

274. So identity theft is okay with you?

Oh, and the IRS checks the income tax records against SS contributions. IF these don't match--and they don't when someone is using a stolen SS number--the IRS expects someone to ante up the right amount of income tax. Too often, it's the victim of identity theft--not the thief--who end up dealing with this issue.

[orleans]

315. jesus christ! did i fucking say identity theft was okay with me? NO.

read my fucking post again before you start throwing shit out like that at me.

you're totally spinning it to drive home your own point.

some people are so fucking defensive they can't even SEE straight, let alone read.

so i guess rephrasing other people's posts, twisting them up, misinterpreting them, reading incorrectly between the lines, and making crazy-ass assumptions (that are WRONG) about what other posters say is okay with you?

[LiberalFighter]

66. If I recall back in the old days it would take about 14 years

before a person could become a citizen after legally immigrating.

I think it took my Great Great Grandfather 20 years before he became a citizen around 1885.

[Hosnon]

13. Here's one (maybe):

The systematic consequences. If the United States (1) awards citizenship to anyone born within its borders and (2) will not deport the parents of any citizen, then the incentive for pregnant women (and fathers) to cross over the border to give birth tends to increase.

Of course, whether or not that is a "good" reason depends on how much the incentive is increased.

Edit: Content and style.

[bleedingheart]

14. because according to the law she is here illegally

some of my ancestors didn't even get off Ellis Island because the rules at that time included being "fit for work"...one cousin was sent back to Europe alone because she had a deformed hand.

My uncle was forbidden entry to the US, so he went to Cuba and then got to Canada on a merchant marine ship...and then was shipped illegally over the border...he didn't come forward until World War II was going on...then he was given a legal status because he was working on his dad's farm....but he was at risk for deportation...

Many of my male family members joined the US military to become citizens to avoid deportation, including a Great-great-uncle of mine who served in WWI.

Do I agree with the law...not particularly, however until the law is changed it is the law and it is the risk. I feel bad for both her and her son.

[Inkyfuzzbottom]

17. She brought this on herself...

Apparently she had previously been deported, returned and got busted yet again. She chose to have a baby while in this country illegally. She KNEW what she was doing. Her son can join her in Tiajuana if she misses him so much. She put her kid in this position. It's unfortunate but she is to blame.

I don't agree with the anchor baby law. If your parents are in the country illegally you should NOT automatically be a U.S. citizen simply because you are born on U.S. soil. I know a couple that are here illegally. They are lovely, hardworking people and both their children were born here. Even though I like them very much, it still doesn't make what they did right. They knew when they came here they were breaking the law. They chose to have two children while here. All emotion aside, they should be deported and take their children with them. If they want to come into the country via legal means I would welcome them. It is not fair to those who follow the rules and go through proper channels to allow the people in the country illegally to stay.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BlooInBloo]

19. Whoa.

[Hosnon]

21. Right out of left field...NT.

[Hamlette]

27. gee, I usally happen on threads AFTER crap like this has been removed by the mods.

my very first alert

[SoCalDem]

22. In an odd way this even discriminates against men.

If any woman of childbearing age can get her and have a baby, why should SHE get preferential treatment just because she procreated..

Unfortunately, the US has long had a sentimental approach to immigration.. Once in, the "leader" then brings the rest of the family. I understand that family is important, but when the "leader" is a low paid worker (or on assistance), is it sensible for a country to encourage the immigration of the rest of that poor family?

I know what the statue in the harbor says about "poor", but that statue came to us in a vastly different time.

When a kid comes here to go to college, that diploma should be a fast track to citizenship, since that person is at least theoretically prepared to provide for themselves and their family, if they choose to apply on their behalf, but it makes less than no sense to me, to be importing poor people when we have so many already here, who get little or no help, as it is..

[aquart]

37. Bigotry is always rampant when jobs are scarce.

Don't you love the cute names we use to disguise it?

[nini]

24. I have a friend from Brazil

who came here to school, met and married a guy here then had a baby from that marriage.

Her husband was killed in a car accident when her child was about a year and half. Every couple years the INS gives her hell and trie to send her back - I absolutely cannot believe they continue to hassle her after she had married someone here and has a child born here. She was here legally to begin with also.

That being said, Ms. Arellano was here illegally. I do not believe families should be broken up but I do believe for families to reside here they must do so by the books. It's an ugly situation that I can see both sides of.

[Colorado Progressive]

29. your friend's case is sad, but far different than this...

and the child's father was a citizen. Why are they giving your friend a hard time with this???? How sad....

[nini]

35. I just brought it up to show the insanity of the INS at times.

and yes, these are two distinct situations. One was unavoidable - the other one was.

Why they continue to harass her is unknown to me - she ends up getting to stay every time. She did have to go back to Brazil for a few weeks once until they allowed her back. She didn't go into hiding and dealt with the system.

[gaspee]

25. Wow, just wow

Such compassion from a supposedly "left leaning" site. For a second, I thought I was in freeperville.

I cannot believe the bile and extreme prejudice against people who are not American by birth. I understand all the arguments against illegal immigrants and actually agree with a couple of points. But if these are the attitudes coming from the supposed left...

Kind of scary.

[TahitiNut]

43. A boatload of red herrings

(1) Nobody is saying the child can't accompany her back home. NOBODY is "splitting them up."

(2) Nobody is "against people who are not American by birth." Nobody. That's YOUR straw man. The issue is the LAW - yet the most recent iteration of the laws we've FAILED to enforce - for the convenience of cheap labor corporatists.

My grandparents were immigrants. I was engaged to an immigrant. People who complied with the laws.

[BlooInBloo]

46. (heh) That's actually why I started this thread.

[gaspee]

84. Hmmm

I'm ignoring the person immediately above you and I don't know why because I can't see who it is. I put a lot of people on ignore after the VA tech shooting and all the fighting over gun rights. I also put people on ignore for blatant misogyny. I probably have close to 100 people on ignore.

Are you replying to that person or me?

[BlooInBloo]

95. I could care less if you you Ignore me...

... I just wanted to provide a flame for all the hateful DUers to flock to, so that everyone could see exactly what the immigration debate is about.

Do whatever the hell you want with your Ignore list.

[gaspee]

105. I'm not

Ignoring you. I'm ignoring the post immediately above you. Sheesh. I'm almost the only person on this thread on the same side as you!

[BlooInBloo]

137. lol! That's one more than I usually have.

[JuniperLea]

139. And still the two of you think you are right!

Oh Bloo... what would we do without you?


hahaha!

[BlooInBloo]

148. Live in blissful comity?

[JuniperLea]

153. Oh, hell no!

What fun would that be?

:silly:

The world needs spoons like you... we don't have to like you to need you:)


:hi:

[BlooInBloo]

214. :)

[JuniperLea]

136. Your loss!

The person who posted directly above Bloo is an awesome, highly intelligent, funny and well-read person.

I can only think you have become drunk on the Kool Aid... the RW wants us to have this argument. They want us to use our hearts instead of our heads on this issue. They want us to let corporations bring in all the low-pay employees they want, and lay the rest of us off. Corporate profit! Wooo hooo!


We have no room. We have no water. We have no sewage system. We have no (good) bridges. We have no (good) roads. We have no good air. We have no good health care. We have no good education.

Don't you think it a far better idea to use our resources to prop ourselves up first before trying to save the world?

Then you can tell me why we should let all the "local" immigrants in and thumb our noses at those from Darfur and other horrid places. Just because there's oceans and thousands of miles of land between us and them, while other immigrants can quite literally walk to the US, why should we take them over the millions of other people in the world who desperately need our help too? Why should we give amnesty to one group while making other groups jump through hoops? What about the Iraqis that have no home and no safe place to live in their own country because we blew it all to hell? Shouldn't we be worried about them first?

[gaspee]

140. As I've posted elsewhere

I'm for open world borders. A place without tribal wars and an us vs them mentality. Too bad I was born in the wrong era to ever see it.

I think the only thing that would cause all of humanity to stop the tribalism is alien invasion. And no, I don't *want* an alien invasion (trying for a little levity here!)

[JuniperLea]

149. The world's problems are from religion...

Not borders, not skin color. Religion. Name me a war that wasn't about religion at its root.

If all the money in the world was spread between all the peoples and all the countries, your utopian ideal would probably work. You can't have open borders with so many poor, and so many perceived rich.

[BlooInBloo]

154. Vietnam....

... But aside from a few examples, I'm tolly with you.

[JuniperLea]

166. What started Vietnam?

I was in kindergarten, I think... And I'm pretty sure they didn't teach me about it in school because Johnson and Westmoreland were still alive... I do recall, much later, that Westmoreland pretty much told us all he made a lot of shit up for the nightly news.

[BlooInBloo]

176. Commies. Or us, depending on how you look at things... lol!

[JuniperLea]

199. Ah, yes... the evil Commies...

I remember the "duck and cover" drills... the fear of mushroom clouds...

The religious fervor of Communism... yes, there's the root! I win!

:silly:

[BlooInBloo]

200. I hate you.

:rofl:

[gaspee]

186. vietnam

Was marketed as the right and christian america stopping godless commies from spreading around the world.

[gaspee]

Hey!

We agree on something! (religion being the root of war)

[TahitiNut]

177. "I probably have close to 100 people on ignore."

My ... how 'open-minded' of you. :eyes:

That's probably about 25% of the active posters on DU ... judging from the MAXIMUM number of people who've ever voted on a DU poll.

Why not put EVERYONE on 'ignore' and put your head COMPLETELY in the ground?

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NYVet]

104. I am fairly new to DU

are you saying that because I only recently came here, I am less of a progressive than you are??

[truebrit71]

110. No. Your desire to deport the parent of a US citizen makes you less progressive than me..

.

[TahitiNut]

135. So, you think "law-abiding" is "less progressive"??

:wow:

That's about the most asinine thing I've read on DU today. :eyes:

[truebrit71]

257. Total lack of compassion is the least progressive thing....

EVER.

[NYVet]

318. I have compassion for those who need help

However, people who are put into a situation by the breaking of our laws do not get compassion from me.

[mondo joe]

168. It's the Freepers who don't care about the law - not Progressives.

Upholding the law is a virtue.

[truebrit71]

258. Yeah, like that's ever mattered to the white man when it comes to immigration...

...the kid is a U.S. citizen...the mother should stay..

[Critters2]

121. If he is saying that, he's in violation of the rules.

You're perfectly welcome here! :hi:

[truebrit71]

260. Thanks mom....

:eyes:

[TahitiNut]

132. Please READ! ...

Do not publicly accuse another member of this message board of being a disruptor, conservative, Republican, FReeper, or troll, or do not otherwise imply they are not welcome on Democratic Underground. If you think someone is a disruptor, click the "Alert" link below their post to let the moderators know.

Do not draw negative attention to the fact that someone is new, has a low post count, or recently became a member of Democratic Underground. Do not insinuate that because someone is new, they are a troll or disruptor.

Do not accuse entire groups of people on Democratic Underground of being conservative disruptors, or post messages which spread this type of suspicion. Do not post topics that arouse suspicion against new members, or members with low post counts.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

[JuniperLea]

143. There you go!

Wanting to play by the rules again! Sheesh!

:silly:

We don't need more stinking laws... we only need to adhere to those we already have.

And when it comes to letting people into this country... how about we start with the people who need a home because we blew theirs up? How do you think these pro-immigration people would feel about putting everyone else on the back burner while we let in as many Iraqis as we can hold?

It's only fair. "We" totally screwed them over.

[TahitiNut]

157. I agree. I also had that attitude in the 70s regarding the boat people.

That's more than Jane Fonda did. :evilgrin:


We didn't enforce the immigration laws 20 years ago ... so we 'changed' them and gave amnesty.

We're not enforcing them again.

So people want to change them.

Why?

Just who the hell really expects them to be enforced?

We've got NINE "guest worker" visa programs including one specifically for Canadians and Mexicans under NAFTA ... and that's STILL NOT ENOUGH CHEAP LABOR???

The corporatists will NEVER be satiated. It's way past time to enact draconian penalties against the wholesale employers of illegal aliens. Close down their buinesses and confiscate the property.

[Colorado Progressive]

169. Thank you for posting that!!!

:hi:

Next they'll be saying we're not "real americans"

[Name removed]

259. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[truebrit71]

294. Is it okay by you if I draw attention to the fact that they are spouting...

...right-wing talking points and conveniently forgetting that this entire COUNTRY is made up of illegal aliens?

Let me know...thanks... :eyes:

[cherokeeprogressive]

321. "this entire COUNTRY is made up of illegal aliens" Would that be fact, or merely personal opinion?

Let me know, thanks.

[madokie]

34. round the whole lot of them up and send them all back to Mexico

and if they want to come here legally then come all they want, but the operative word here is legally. If they come here and take jobs away with low wages as their bargaining chip or they have babies here to skirt the system, same damn thing send them back to Mexico. Its been done before and it'll be done again, the rounding them up and shipping their asses back south.

[Solon]

209. So you are advocating for an operation Wetback part 2?

You do realize that a lot of Mexican-Americans were deported then, right? People who were citizens, and settled many parts of the West before white Americans even showed up? :puke:

[judaspriestess]

213. they are not all Mexcuns, ya know

but to you they obviously are. pretty fucked up and very very hateful.

on edit: typo

[cherokeeprogressive]

323. You're right. Only about 57% of them are according to the Pew Hispanic Center. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

232. They aren't all from Mexico

Just a minor little detail that messes up your plan. :hi:

[truebrit71]

272. Nice! Such compassion!!

:puke:

[Blaze Diem]

38. "getting them back"???

Its about being illegal, using a fake SS # (might be an issue of identity theft, as in some fake SS# cases).
The fact that her son is legal and she is not is unfortunate.
Isn't there some sort of temp status she could receive that would keep her with her child until he is of legal age/ OR until she goes through the process of becoming legal as many others do to remain in the States?

Problem is this: 20 years ago I lived in Denver, & knew hispanic neighbors who had relatives come to visit from Mexico. When they arrived, here was a young couple, & she was due to deliver their child any day. They would stay until the baby was born, thus claiming status in the Staqtes. The family would take her to the Social Service office, where the new family was given all benefits of a natural citizen. This was not an isolated case..It was the norm and happened many times over. It was just a fact that family visits would be soon welcoming a new baby and a trip to the SS office.

You need to understand that this has been happening for a very long time. Though the child was then a citizen, the parents weren't and often never bothered to become legal.

The complaint was, at that time, that because they come across the border to have their baby, should not equal automatic legal status to this country and use of benefits offered to families via Social Service Dept.s The desire to care for these families in theie plight for a better life was always there..it is the sheer volumne of people that have come here expecting that benefit, that has many Americans arguing the "parent/child" point of view.

My guess is that it is a dilemma that has no reasonable answer. I believe people feel for the separation of mother and child, but how many will use a child to argue their right to then stay in the US?
This was the norm 20yrs ago, as I stated above.
Don't know how to solve the problem, but the size of it has been increasing and out of control for far too long.
Don't know the answer when listening to BOTH sides of this issue.

[BlooInBloo]

39. None of the principals in this thread gives a rat's ass about the kid...

... or "anchor-babies", as those caring DUers put it.

[madokie]

41. unfortunate for the child but its mother is a criminal

as it is in this case. sorry but you won't get any sympathy from me on their plight.

[BlooInBloo]

44. Thank you for illustrating my point - you're PERFECT.

EDIT: Just wanted to record it for posterity: "you won't get any sympathy from me on their plight."

[madokie]

58. WOW, just wow,

perfect huh, I'll be telling my wife that
if it would make you feel any better I will volunteer my time to help in the rounding up. it has nothing to do with being mexican and all to do with taking jobs using low price as a bargaining chip and being a drain on our already stretched social services. sorry but round them up and send them back to where ever they came from, simple as that, problem solved.

[Bluebear]

61. "sorry but round them up and send them back to where ever they came from"

Holy moly, you sound like.... well I can't say what you sound like.

"ROUND THEM UP" - - - - like animals.

[madokie]

65. yep like animals

you can go howl at the moon as far as i am concerned, oh, and it'll prolly get you as much as giving me a hard time will, nothing

that was the words I used, shore 'nough, round em up and ship em out,

[Bluebear]

68. You sound like an animal, sorry.

[BlooInBloo]

71. Let it go. OK has a long and glorious history of dealing with "undesirables" this way....

... It's nice to see it displayed though - in case people don't actually believe it.

Hm - wonder how many sundown towns OK still has? :rofl:

[Bluebear]

75. Thanks for the heads up, at least I won't waste any more time

[madokie]

146. guess what we do around here when we get bored

drive out past the illegals working our construction jobs and holler real loud, IMMIGRATION, some of them will actually hurt themselves trying to get away, you ought to try it sometimes its pretty fucking entertaining. :rofl: I'm serious as a heart attack here too.;-)

[Bluebear]

165. Goodbye, you really do sound mad. And not entertaining.

[madokie]

173. The question was asked and I said what I thought

sorry if you didn't like what I had to say, maybe the next time you will think twice before you post such garbage. prolly not though, huh


edit to clarify

[BlooInBloo]

224. I like listening to you! Got any more good stories?

[LeftishBrit]

308. I hope you are just posting flamebait and aren't really this full of hate?

If you are, then I hope you don't immigrate to Britain, as I expect you'd become a member of the BNP with that attitude.

It's one thing to oppose illegal immigration; another to glory in baiting immigrants.

[madokie]

72. I am rabid too

send the illegals home and do it now is my stance on this, round them up and send them home. if that makes me an animal I'll wear that badge with pride

[LanternWaste]

280. While it may not make you sound like an animal yourself...

While it may not make you sound like an animal yourself, it does appear to advertise that you freely treat others that way.

However, it seems you are somewhat proud of this stance-- regarding law as an absolute defense, stronger than the plight of the least among us.

Odd.

[BlooInBloo]

64. omg - PLEASE keep talking! You're on fire! You're GOLD!!!

You can't buy this stuff.

"round them up and send them back to where ever they came from, simple as that, problem solved."

[madokie]

69. Operation Wetback - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback

Operation Wetback was a 1954 project of the United States Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) to remove about 1.2 million illegal immigrants from the southwestern United States, with a focus on Mexican nationals. Mexican citizens illegally residing in the U.S. were called wetbacks.


History
Burgeoning numbers of illegal aliens prompted President Dwight D. Eisenhower to appoint his longtime friend, General Joseph Swing, as INS Commissioner. According to Attorney General Herbert Brownell Jr., Eisenhower had a sense of urgency about illegal immigration immediately upon taking office. In a letter to Sen. William Fulbright, Eisenhower quoted a report in The New York Times that said: "The rise in illegal border-crossing by Mexican 'wetbacks' to a current rate of more than 1,000,000 cases a year has been accompanied by a curious relaxation in ethical standards extending all the way from the farmer-exploiters of this contraband labor to the highest levels of the Federal Government."

Eisenhower became increasingly concerned that profits from illegal labor led to corruption. An on-and-off guest-worker program for Mexicans was operating at the time, and farmers and ranchers in the Southwest were becoming dependent on additional low-cost labor. The operation was modeled after the deportation program that invited American citizens of Mexican ancestry to go back to Mexico during the Great Depression because of the bad economy north of the border. See Mexican Repatriation.


Operation
The operation began in California and Arizona and coordinated 1,075 Border Patrol agents along with state and local police agencies to mount an aggressive crackdown, going as far as police sweeps of Mexican-American neighborhoods and random stops and ID checks of "Mexican-looking" people in a region with many Native Americans and native Hispanics.<1> In some cases, illegal immigrants were deported along with their American-born children, who were by law U.S. citizens. The agents used a wide brush in their criteria for interrogating potential aliens. They adopted the practice of stopping "Mexican-looking" citizens on the street and asking for identification. 750 agents targeted agricultural areas with a goal of 1000 apprehensions a day. By the end of July, over 50,000 aliens were caught in the two states. Around 488,000 people fled the country for fear of being apprehended. By September, 80,000 had been taken into custody in Texas, and the INS estimates that 500,000-700,000 illegals had left Texas voluntarily. To discourage re-entry, buses and trains took many illegals deep within Mexico before being set free. Tens of thousands more were put aboard two hired ships, the Emancipation and the Mercurio. The ships ferried the aliens from Port Isabel, Texas, to Veracruz, Mexico, more than 500 miles (900 kilometers) south.


Result
Operation Wetback deported approximately 80,000 Mexican nationals in the space of almost a year, although local INS officials claimed that an additional 500,000-700,000 had fled to Mexico before the campaign began. The INS estimates rested on the claim that most undocumented people, fearing apprehension by the government, had voluntarily repatriated themselves before and during the operation. This practice incited and angered many U.S. citizens who were of Mexican American descent. Opponents in both the United States and Mexico complained of "police-state" methods, and Operation Wetback was abandoned.


Notes

[BlooInBloo]

73. Hey! Are you an agent from The Onion?

[madokie]

76. hey I'm an American who is tired of seeing all the illegals in our country

nothing more or nothing less. and tired of seeing illegal Mexican nationals stealing our jobs with their willingness to work cheaply and being a drain on our social services. you can take your whatevers with you when you move south for all I care. so there

[BlooInBloo]

81. Yah! Just a good 'ol law 'n order MURIKAN!!!! You RULE!!!

[madokie]

90. In this case yes I rule

call me what you want, the fact of the matter is they are illegal not me

[Bluebear]

107. "If you're an ILLEGAL parent, the child would bot be given automatic citizenship, Right?"

http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=11854

well, if you are an ILLEGAL parent ... then if based on the parents record ... the child would not be given automatic citizenship. Right?

===

From the RaptureReady board. People don't even know what our Constitution says anymore.

[truebrit71]

112. Wow...straight out of the Bill O'Reilly playbook...

..Stealing "our" jobs? Check. Drain on "our" social services? Check.

Damn them!! How dare they work for less money than me!!!

Hey, here's an idea, why don't you get mad at the fuckers paying these illegals? If they stopped paying them there would be no incentive for them to be here in the first place.

[madokie]

113. does that make you feel better

spouting off shit like that or do you do it just for spite.

our state is doing something about it btw

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=oklahoma%27s+new+illegal+immigration&spell=1

House Bill 1804 was passed by overwhelming majorities in both the House and Senate of the Oklahoma Legislature. The measure's sponsor, State Representative Randy Terrill, says the bill has four main topical areas: it deals with identity theft; it terminates public assistance benefits to illegals; it empowers state and local police to enforce federal immigration laws; and it punishes employers who knowingly hire illegal aliens.

Oklahoma is no longer "O.K." for illegal aliens, Terrill observes. "When you put everything together in context," he contends, "the bottom line is illegal aliens will not come here if there are no jobs waiting for them, they will not stay here if there is no government subsidy, and they certainly won't stay here if they know that if they ever encounter our state and local law enforcement officers, they will be physically detained until they're deported. And that's exactly what House Bill 1804 does."

[BlooInBloo]

118. I heard they have leprosy.

:rofl:

[cherokeeprogressive]

324. I have a hunch that if overnight, it were made impossible for undocumented immigrants to get jobs

you'd find something wrong with that too.

So what should be done with an undocumented immigrant who has no job? And no prospect of getting one?

[gaspee]

87. even better

calling the little boy -- ITS -- unfreaking believeable. Calling a seven year old boy IT because his mother entered the country illegally. And I wonder why I haven't been visiting DU lately.

The last gun rights battle, the continual assault on women and the absolutely disgusting attitudes toward people who are not Americans.

I don't even call myself a democrat anymore. I call myself a humanist these days. Seems some of the issues are no longer democratic issues. Things like all human beings, not just rich, white, Americans having rights and value as human beings are no longer a core platform of people who consider themselves democrats.

One thing El Pretzlenitwit has done is drive people who would never in a million years be actual democrats into the Democratic party because of their disgust with him.

Well done, El Stupido.

[matcom]

45. you will from me

I don't believe people are "Illegal" based on the dirt they happen to be standing on.

[blondeatlast]

50. I just may adopt that phrase for a bumper sticker. Perfect; just perfect.

:applause::thumbsup:

[matcom]

53. you have more than my permission

:hug:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

126. Its? ITS?

ITS?

Three little letters that let me know all I need to know.

[gaspee]

181. yeah

that's what I pointed out, but it seems to be lost in the shuffle.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

191. That's what the "font" tag is for. -nt

[judaspriestess]

217. "its" mother???

you seriously have some issues. you're head is going to explode from the hate you harbor. disgusting.

[proud2BlibKansan]

234. It's a civil offense

By your logic, I am a criminal too since I exceeded the speed limit on my way home today.

[Hosnon]

49. Ugh...are you one of those "do it for the children" individuals?

Society should not grind to a halt for one child. While I understand the difficult situation this child is in, there is a larger system involved. If our intent is to stem the flow of illegal immigrants, then excusing this instance for this individual child will only encourage others to do the same.

Edit: Content.

[matcom]

56. bet you thought different about Elian

:eyes:

[Hosnon]

60. I was about 14 when that went down so I really didn't think anything about that. NT.

[matcom]

67. now that you are older and "wiser' you might want to read up on it

[Hosnon]

221. I know what the situation was now, just as I know the situation surrounding WWII

even though I wasn't there to have an opinion at the time.

[NYVet]

88. Actually I thought Elian should go back home too...

His sole surviving parent was in Cuba, and his mother's family had no legal standing to keep him here.

Did INS go wrong in getting him the way they did??


You BETCHA... Gave all kinds of ammo to people to scream about it.

[Bluebear]

63. It's revolting, it really is. nt

[WillowTree]

109. You're breakin' my heart!

Using that "rationale" we shouldn't incarcerate felons no matter where they were born or how they entered the Country if they have children because it's so bloody unfair to the kids when we "break up the family" that way.

Utter nonsense. The mother broke the law and you're suggesting that she ought to be immune to the prescribed consequences because she broke the law and is now trying to use her eight year-old son as a loophole. What a racket!! What other laws should those who come here in violation of our immigration statutes be allowed to break with impunity? What laws do I get to break without consequence by virtue of the fact that I entered the Country legally?

Whatever the child is suffering now, it is because of choices she made, including the one about leaving him behind when she was deported. I feel sorry for the kid. Very sorry. But mostly because of how he is being used as a pawn in his mother's game of Immigration Roulette.

[Bluebear]

111. Your first GD post THIS YEAR & it took this to bring you out?

[WillowTree]

116. Sorry for the fact

that working full-time and spending literally 100% of the rest of my time caring for an elderly invalid aunt who meant the world to me for 19 months has kept me off the boards, all boards, for quite awhile seems to be such a problem for you. Is there some rule that says that because of that, I'm not allowed to return to a more normal version of my life now that she's passed on?

[Bluebear]

128. I could say "you're breaking my heart"...

...but that would be cold. See, everyone has their problems. My sympathy on the loss of your aunt who meant the world to you, sincerely, and welcome back.

[WillowTree]

141. Thank you for your kind words.......

.......but I'm not looking for sympathy. I chose to take her in and every day that Flo was here with me enriched my life in ways that nothing on the Internet ever will. It was a life-changing experience that I wouldn't trade for anything.

[Bluebear]

147. I can imagine.

And I am truly sorry for your loss. Flo enriched your life but she was lucky to have you, too. All the best.

[BlooInBloo]

138. What can I say? I'm damn good.

[lynne]

144. Looks to me like Mom didn't give enough of a rat's ass about her own kid -

- to take the steps to become legal. Instead of remaining illegal and holding her child a co-hostage in a church for a year, she should have taken the steps to enter the US legally years ago and saved her son from this sad situation. We prosecute other criminals who have children - why is this different?

[Zookeeper]

79. I think you are right that the situation is coming to a head...

because of the numbers. I have seen a great deal of generosity here in MN toward immigrants from all over the world, but when one particular group is coming illegally 12-20 million strong and demanding a right to be here, it discourages generosity. That would apply to 20 million illegal immigrants from Russia, Poland, China, Iran, Canada or anywhere else, if they were driving down wages for the poorest citizens of this country and taking advantage of our already inadequate public services.

I just don't belief that the ardent defenders of citizens of Mexico or Columbia, who are here illegally would have the same degree of sympathy for Chinese, Romanian or Rwandan illegal immigrants. There is a lot of vested interest in this debate.

[LeftishBrit]

48. A sad story.

[cgrindley]

80. If they commit say a felony

of course, I don't think that breaking immigration law is a crime, but say they rob a bank or something... yeah... pack em off home.

[Critters2]

85. Like identity theft?

Elvira Arellano was due to be deported because of Social Security fraud before she holed up in that church. She's not a saint.

And her son is free to join her in Mexico.

[cgrindley]

89. Sure, why not

it wasn't just using a fake one to get work was it? cause I wouldn't deport her for that.

[Critters2]

92. It's a crime. And it is a pain in the ass for the poor soul

whose number she used.

She has no respect for the rule of law. So, she has no right to be here.

[cgrindley]

106. You didn't answer my question

was she just using some random number to get work? I'm not deporting her for that.

[Critters2]

108. Too late. She's already been deported

And she should have been. She broke more than one law. Besides, she'll probably be back in Chicago by Wednesday.

[Critters2]

275. I would.

Fraud is fraud.

[proud2BlibKansan]

236. How is it a pain in the ass for the person whose number she used?

Adding income to that SS account - which means MORE SS benefits when they are needed - is a pain in the ass?

[Colorado Progressive]

237. as in more taxes to pay on her behalf???

I have known illegals who get someone elses ssn, claim 8 dependents,then leave after a year.

[Critters2]

276. And leave the IRS looking for the income tax to go with that

extra SS money. A real nightmare for the person whose number was stolen.

[Critters2]

273. Since this has happened to me, I can explain why it's a pain in the ass

The IRS and the SSA check SS contributions. If a person's SS contributions don't match the amount that person paid in income taxes, the IRS comes asking for--no, insisting on--that extra money. And somehow, those using stolen SS numbers find ways around paying the correct amount of income taxes to match those extra SS contributions. Which pisses the IRS off.

But, apart from all of that, identity theft is a crime.

What other laws do you think shouldn't apply to illegal immigrants?

[treestar]

198. That's already the law

The problem with people opining about immigration is their assumptions about the law are usually wrong.

The slightest crime can get even a legal alien deported now. Even if they are married to a U.S. citizen (and the U.S. citizen has a right to marry who they want - or should).

[MUSTANG_2004]

82. Random parents are not being deported

She was a high-profile case. If her main concern was not being separated from her child, she would have stayed under the radar.

Apparently nobody told her if you're here illegally and want to avoid being separated from your child, don't speak at a rally.

[spartan61]

83. She was given the opportunity to take her child with her and she

declined. Now the pastor of the church and his wife are caring for the child. She illegally came to this country not once, but twice!! After being deported after the first illegal entry to the US, she sneaked back in!! This woman feels like she should have special treatment because she gave birth to a child in this country and she is exploiting her child. Why doesn't she go to her Mexican government and try to get them to make life in Mexico more tolerable?

[Name removed]

86. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ohio2007]

98. How many other countries in the world recognize a child of illegals in their country

to automatically become a citizen of that country?

there are about 160 nations.
What, maybe 5 % allow it ?

[Bluebear]

103. How do you feel about the death penalty?

[oldhippie]

114. I'm kinda curious..........

..... who and where is the kid's father? Just curious.

[Critters2]

119. I've been wondering that, too.

Unless this was an immaculate conception, there's another parent somewhere.

[in_cog_ni_to]

117. Oh, I don't know. I think we should ask THESE people what their opinions are:

[gaspee]

123. Same here

Every time this is brought up, I think the same thing,

And the really funny part (and not hahaha funny) is that most of the poor mexicans emigrating here are mestizo, therefore actual indigenous people. it's the rich in Mexico who are of Spanish descent. The poor are almost all descendents of the original inhabitants.

Kinda funny, huh?

[TahitiNut]

125. Yeah. Right. Then complain to the King of England, the King of France, and the King of Spain!

Let's just keep making stupid comparisons to the behavior of monarchies and ignore any difference whatsoever.

(Jesus!) :eyes: :eyes:

[stirlingsliver]

162. But....Didn't They Wage War?

I don't understand.

Didn't all the people whose pictures you've posted wage war against people who had different skin color?

And didn't they wage that war precisely to defend their lands against people of different colored skin??

[mainegreen]

298. Is that an argument?

A lot of native tribes lived on land they drove others off of.
Most cultures exist on land they drove others off of.

Is that an argument that everyone should be allowed to continuously drive each other off each others land or an argument for freezing everything status quo and not allowing any immigration?

[TahitiNut]

122. "I either go to my country, Mexico, or stay and keep fighting. I decided to stay and fight."

"my country"

"Mexico"

I think that's enough said right there. :shrug:

This is NOT an "immigrant." Period.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6954639.stm

[Critters2]

124. I thought that, too. An immigrant would think of THIS as her country

Well, she's home now.

[verse18]

127. I was an anchor baby for my mother.

Our family is from the Caribbean but, eventually, she and the majority of our family became LEGAL citizens of the US. My grandparents, my mother, her siblings and some of my cousins had to go through the process of become citizens. So I can't understand why there should be special exceptions for others.

[Throd]

142. Zero sympathy from me.

Zip, zilch, nada.

[Bluebear]

145. "Nada", what a nice touch.

:eyes:

[Throd]

158. Yes, how utterly racist of me.

It is somewhat difficult for me to type while wearing this Klan hood.

[Bluebear]

164. Hey, you are calling yourself racist.

I just marvel that you think this woman would give a shit that she gets "zilch" sympathy from you.

[Throd]

179. No, I'm not really.

That was in reference to all of those who hurl "racist" at anyone who disagrees with them on illegal immigration matters. Apparently they can read my mind. I have always thought my opinion on illegal immigration was arrived upon after careful consideration. But they always know better. No matter what arguments I make, it is always about how I just hate brown people.

[Name removed]

152. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[stirlingsliver]

155. What Would Happen If An American Illegally Entered Mexico and Had A Child?

Does anyone here know what would happen if an American woman illegally entered Mexico and had a child?

Would her child be a Mexican citizen by virtue of being born in Mexico?

And if she were discovered to be in Mexico illegally, would the Mexican authorities deport her?

And if they deported her, would the Mexican authorities allow her to take her child with her, or would the child have to remain in Mexico?

Does anyone know??

[gaspee]

156. that sounds suspiciously like

Hey, they cut off people's heads! We should get to torture too!

[stirlingsliver]

160. Sorry, No.

Sorry, no.

It's a honest question.

I really don't know, but I am curious as to whether anyone knows the answers.

[in_cog_ni_to]

163. Give 'em time....they'll get to that soon. We already have vigilante

groups shooting at illegals crossing the border. That's just a step away from pulling them out of their homes and shooting them or torturing them. Just wait. It's going to happen. There's so much HATRED in this country now.:(

[Bluebear]

203. The "Minutemen"

:puke:

[in_cog_ni_to]

210. Yep, yep, yep....the Confederate Flag waving Minutemen. THAT is who

DUers have aligned themselves with on this issue! It BLOWS MY MIND.

[Bluebear]

211. Also see:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1627535&mesg_id=1627535

talk about playing into their hands.

[in_cog_ni_to]

212. GEEZUS....no shit.

Fred Barnes is more Liberal on this issue than some Duers???:rofl::rofl:


Liberals are suppose to be uhhhhh...... LIBERAL!

# broad: showing or characterized by broad-mindedness; "a broad political stance"; "generous and broad sympathies"; "a liberal newspaper"; "tolerant of his opponent's opinions"
# having political or social views favoring reform and progress
# tolerant of change; not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or tradition
# a person who favors a political philosophy of progress and reform and the protection of civil liberties
# big: given or giving freely; "was a big tipper"; "the bounteous goodness of God"; "bountiful compliments"; "a freehanded host"; "a handsome allowance"; "Saturday's child is loving and giving"; "a liberal backer of the arts"; "a munificent gift"; "her fond and openhanded grandfather"

[treestar]

201. A matter of Mexican law

Never heard of an American being prohibited from going into Mexico or being deported from there.

Americans go to other countries almost at will.

It is the U.S. that has the restrictive laws.

[stirlingsliver]

207. You Might Want To Take A Look At This

You might want to take a look at the information at the following link:

http://www.cis.org/articles/2002/back702.html

It appears that Mexico's treatment of people entering Mexico from the south is not so wonderful.

[treestar]

238. Where does it say they won't let Americans into Mexico?

Whatever goes on between Mexico and other countries isn't our problem. We don't have a border with those other countries.

There are plenty of Central Americans in the U.S. too. They not only trekked across our border, they trekked through Mexico.

[stirlingsliver]

262. So Mexico Never Has Deported Americans, Eh?

You say that you have never heard of Mexico deporting Americans?

Read this from the New York Times:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=travel&res=9F0CE1DC133CF937A1575AC0A965958260

[NeedleCast]

229. American citizen at least, possibly dual

I don't know Mexico's immigration law. However if the child was born to an American parent(s) in another country, they would automatically be an American citizen, regardless of where they were born. Depending on where they were born, they might also be a citizen of the country they were physically born in.

[Freddie Stubbs]

161. So, being the parent of an American Citizen is a Get-Out-of-Jail-Free card?

:shrug:

[Madspirit]

167. Bloo Bloo Bloo Bloo

Didn't you know, no one here is a bigot. It's really all intelligent discourse. Of course those taco eating disease carrying mescans ARE trying to take all the BEST jobs while raping our more attractive daughters and bringing leprosy, I tell you LEPROSY and mescanism and not even talking like real white people...

Why even try Bloo? Why even try?

I have many friends who are illegals, being a Texan and a REAL leftist and all. I even volunteer at a safe place in Austin for Illegals...Casa Marianella. I rather break bread with them any damned FUCKING day than with people who get all puffed up and huffy if they are accused of racism, xenophobia or bigotry but in reality DO think in the above way. ...and who approach it from the bitty baby point of sniveling racists weeping in the corner wetting themselves and making up lies:

Ooooh, the mescans are coming. The mescans are coming. Yeah, we're really too politically correct here. :rofl: NOT.

Lee

[stirlingsliver]

170. Think Like Me Or...

I see.

Think like me.

Or you are a racist.

And a bigot.

And a xenophobe.

And not a "real" leftist.

Geeze.

[Bluebear]

172. What is "stirling" silver?

[stirlingsliver]

174. You

read it wrong.

Sorry.

[Bluebear]

180. Oh now it makes all kinds of sense.

Thank you.

[stirlingsliver]

185. Glad To Oblige.

I knew you could figure it out.

[Madspirit]

175. I Never Said There Couldn't Be TRUE Discourse On This Subject

...but this is not true discourse. The way they talk about Mexicans here, like THE OTHER...it makes me puke my guts out and most certainly is not leftist. It's sniveling, wetting themselves racism. ...and yes, no leftist would talk THIS way about ANYONE. You cannot call yourself a leftist and speak this way. The term actually DOES have meaning.

Lee

[stirlingsliver]

183. Whatever.

Whatever floats your boat.

I guess those that have different opinions just do not engage in "true discourse" (as you define it).

And I guess those that have different opinions "snivel".

And I guess those that have different opinions "wet themselves".

And I guess those that have different opinions are "racists".

And I guess those that have different opinions are not "true leftists".

Because no "true leftist" would talk "this way" about "the other".

I guess it just depends on who "the other" is.

[Bluebear]

187. You have used up your quota of snarky quotation marks until July, 2009.

Please make a note of it.

[stirlingsliver]

190. Noted

Would it be snarky of me to point out that you have called me (and here, I am THE OTHER) snarky?

I think calling THE OTHER snarky takes points away from being a true leftist.

Please make note of it.

Thanks.

[Madspirit]

219. Yes, "leftist" actually DOES have meaning.

In that meaning is NOT included racism, xenophobia, bigotry, sexism, misogyny, homophobia or intolerance of anyone not straight, white, uptight and American born. Leftist truly does have meaning that includes ...INCLUSION, sanctuary, caritas, compassion, empathy, aid, welcoming arms AND A BLEEDING HEART. THAT really is an integral part of the definition of "leftist". Maybe you should just spank the moppet and own what you are...at best, a Democratic Centrist. Not a Leftist.

Lee

[stirlingsliver]

263. Well, Just So You Know

I am the true vanguard of the proletariat.

That makes me much more of a leftist.

[Critters2]

184. I don't see how you can call yourself a Leftist and advocate

lower-than-minimum-wages for workers. Or side with the Chamber of Commerce and the corporatists in favor of the exportation of workers. But that's what you're doing.

[Madspirit]

220. What a Simplistic Mentality

I actually do not condescend to people. I ask them, "what do YOU want"...being as I actually know them. Then I take their word for what THEY want.

Lee

[Zookeeper]

252. Have you ever visited the city of Detroit and asked...

what African-Americans who have been mired in generations of poverty, never fully had equal opportunity in education or jobs, what they want?

I'm pretty sure it isn't 20 million illegal workers to compete for jobs, lower wages and compete for limited school funding.

These are people I grew up caring about, just as much as you care about your friends. My loyalty is to our own citizens who have been chronically underserved by our educational system.

Upper middle class people aren't paying the real price for millions of illegal workers; it's the working poor, African-Americans and legal immigrants. Why are they less worthy than citizens of other countries who choose to cross the border?

And don't get me started on the racist subtext of the "but, they're hard workers" talking point. (Subtext: "..compared to those uppity blacks.")

[Critters2]

290. Well, said. Thank you. nt

[Zookeeper]

314. Thank YOU, mycritters...

A Martian reading these threads would think that African-Americans and the working poor don't even exist.

[LeftishBrit]

306. One question here (from an ignorant foreigner)

Wouldn't it be possible to set laws to establish strict rules for *employers* that they have to pay at least minimum wage, and any appropriate insurance contributions, for every person that they employ, and to establish checks and inspections to ensure that they do so? If effective, this would stop the cheap labour problem, and would presumably also reduce the number of illegal immigrants as people would have less motivation to employ them. Wouldn't this be fairer than putting all the focus and blame on the immigrants themselves?

[Madspirit]

310. Yes

...but then they wouldn't have mescans to scapegoat. ...and that is just wacky good times.

Lee

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

197. Sigh. The standard response of everybody who defends the indefensible.

And yes, there ARE such things as indefensible ideas and people DO defend them nonetheless, even here in DU.

"Boo hoo! I'm being oppressed! You all far left meanies are demanding lockstep groupthink! I thought the Democrat Party was a big tent!"

[stirlingsliver]

204. Sigh. The Standard Response Of Everybody Who Sets Him/Herself Up

Sigh. The standard response of every person who sets her/himself up as having the sole insight into truth and morality.

"Only the ideas that meet MY approval are defensible".

No "indefensible" ideas are to be tolerated.

Whatever.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

205. I thank you for reiterating my point for me, but really, it wasn't needed.

Now stop whining.

[stirlingsliver]

208. Whining?

I don't whine.

Now stop being so imperious and condescending.

[BlooInBloo]

226. Why try? Because DUers like to pretend these people don't exist...

... or if they do exist, that they're FEW.

[Madspirit]

250. Sadly we've convinced no one

Many brag about the Big Tent. I don't want to be in a tent that includes bigots. Blech.

Great post Bloo. Did I k&r? Hmmm I will now if I have not already.

Lee

[noamnety]

254. "I'd rather break bread with them"

me too, madspirit. Any damned fucking day is right. I took a lot of shit from someone here, forgot who, for saying it before, but if I had to climb into a lifeboat of immigrants or nationalists, I'd be in the immigrant boat without a second thought.

Glad you are still posting here, though I am sure it can't be good for your health, judging from my own blood pressure when I see history replaying itself here like we haven't learned a damned thing over the centuries.

[dysfunctional press]

171. ummm...because they are here ILLEGALLY?

just a hunch.

[mondo joe]

178. Looks like his mother created the scenario.

I don't think much of church sanctuary either.

[Bluebear]

182. What do you think of a gay couple, one half of which can't come into this country?

Because we don't recognize the relationship? Upthread you said upholding the law is virtuous, is thart a good law? Should that couple be forced to live apart?

[mondo joe]

188. I think it's very unfortunate, and I'd like the law to be changed.

But as this currently is the law, the couple certainly should know that and shouldn't be surprised to have it enforced.

[Bluebear]

194. See, that's a different tone from "IT'S ILLEGAL!!!!!"

WHAT PART OF ILLEGAL DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND??????

Which is the tone of more than one here. My take, the "illegal problem" is not even in my top ten list of American problems right now.

But we are letting the Republicans set up a sweet wedge issue for 2008 and buying right into it.

[mondo joe]

202. I guess I think I'd feel the same about that scenario as this one. I can understand not

wanting it to be the case, but it is the law and no one should be shocked when it doesn't work for them.

Also, given the question of the OP I thought "She's here illegally" was literally an answer to the question.

It's a painful issue for people impacted by it, but I do still maintain that legal process is the correct route to take. (And that certainly includes legal challenges.)

[Zookeeper]

253. If it's any comfort, it's a wedge issue for the Rethugs, too. n/t

[stirlingsliver]

193. What About A President Who Doesn't Obey The Law?

Should he get off with no penalty?

Or should he and his advisors obey the law, even if they happen to disagree with it?

[Bluebear]

195. An excellent point.

I would far rather we have a President who obeys the law than a Mexican mother.

[treestar]

189. Once you turn 21, you can petition for permanent residence for your

parent.

In the meantime, the parent is not legal unless there is some other way to be legal.

The child can stay, but as a practical matter, ends up going abroad with the parent. However they can of course return any time.

[Clark2008]

206. Hmmm... how 'bout when they are abusive to the American-born

spouse in front of the child (and possibly putting the child at risk of injury) and then refuse to pay child support.

That's why my ex is being considered for deportation.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

216. I'm sorry you had to go through this, but really, that applies to parents who are not foreigners too

Only they get "deported" with restraining orders. Or jail.

If anything, the fact that the person you speak of is a foreigner is a stroke of luck on your part, all things considered. He can be sent farther away from you. But that circumstance is purely accidental.

[Clark2008]

261. True - but the question was "is there any reason..."

That was a reason. A valid one.

[ecstatic]

218. So as long as someone has a baby after sneaking in

everything is fine? Do you apply that standard for all countries (including African countries and Haiti)?

By the way, my mother and her immediate family are from South America and it took many many years and a lot of sacrifice for them to all get in the country legally.

[Bill McBlueState]

225. nice thread

It's like ants swarming to a dropped popsicle stick.

[BlooInBloo]

227. Thanks! I didn't realize it would work out quite THIS well. LOL!!

[NeedleCast]

230. Yes. It's the law

For a board where a good deal of members constantly rail at G-Dubs administration for crushing "rule of law" there's a lot of folks here who don't mind it being over-looked in tear-jerking situations like this one.

While I'm against illegal immigration, the bigger problem we have in the U.S. is illegal hiring. Immigrant families are often torn apart while the companies or people who illegally hired them are not punished at all, or given a minimal slap on the wrist. I really don't even have a problem with folk who are here illegally as long as they're paying taxes. It's the ones who are using the social system and NOT paying taxes who are placing an unfair burden on social programs.

[Solar_Power]

233. ILLEGAL -- simple word

yet many can't grasp its meaning

[Bluebear]

239. ...

Hokay.

[treestar]

240. I think we grasp its meaning, we are just more forgiving

than some other people are

There but for the grace of God go I, as the saying goes. We might need this type of mercy someday - we could end up having to migrate to China in droves - or somewhere - if the economy here ever collapses.

[Bluebear]

243. Mercy is a concept totally foreign to some.

It's all black and white in the right wing mind.

[Madspirit]

249. ROFL

...and some laws are unjust. Once upon a time it was illegal for a black person to learn to read. Once upon a time blah blah blah blah. That is THE stupidest of all arguments. So. The. Fuck. What.

In other words...slap me backward...what DEPTH you have. :rofl:

Lee

[EFerrari]

265. So were runaway slaves. So were voting women.

So were mixed marriages. So were blow jobs in Georgia.

lol

[porphyrian]

235. Yes, if they're dangerously radioactive. - n/t

[BlooInBloo]

242. That IS an excellent reason.

[porphyrian]

309. I win! - n/t

[Sanctified]

241. I am not positive but I think somewhere in the Bible there is a reference to a special place in Hell

for those who separate a family.

[Critters2]

278. I don't think there is.

But even if there were, Elvira Arellano separated her own family. Her son could have gone to Mexico with her. She chose not to take him.

[Sanctified]

281. Is he a Mexican Citizen?

Because unless he is she could not take him to Mexico with her.

[Critters2]

282. Gee, she should have thought of that before getting into this situation

I bet he has a father somewhere.

[Sanctified]

283. So your solution is to seperate the family.

If he is an American Citizen he cannot legally take residence in Mexico again in my opinion there is a special place in hell for people who separate families. Punishing an American Citizen by forcing him to live without his family is not the solution.

[Critters2]

285. A good parent plans for the future of her children

She created this situation. And, unless this was an immaculate conception, there's another parent somewhere.

[Critters2]

319. According to the Chicago Tribune, he can legally enter

and stay in Mexico. She decided to leave him here.

[Truthiness Inspector]

251. Nope. You are wrong.

Virtually every country has immigration laws. This woman is nothing but a hack trying to bend the rules, when if we looked at Mexico's immigration laws....

[RebelOne]

256. OK, what if the country refuses to take back the immigrant?

I have a friend from Ukraine, who was here on a Visa. He was involved in a felony, spent some time in prison and then when he was released, he broke probation. The US tried to deport him to Ukraine, but they refused to take him, saying that he was no longer a citizen of Ukraine. So he is still here, but is a man without a country.

[NeedleCast]

269. Technically

His current status is akin to what we call Asylum - Witholding Only. Basically he's got temporary asylum, but if DHS can prove that he can be sent ANYWHERE else legally, he'll get sent there. Since he's a felon with a probation violation, chances are pretty good that DHS is going to pursue every means available to them to get him out of the country and they're not going to give him permission to live, or work in the US.

[Critters2]

279. One ought to consider such potenitalities before committing

felonies or breaking probation.

[EFerrari]

264. Because they don't taste like chicken?

Because it's too expensive to ship 'em to Hawaii and sacrifice them to Pele?

lol

[LanternWaste]

266. I think it's because

I think it's because too many people value imaginary red and black lines on a map over human beings...

(Paraphrasing Victor Hugo with whom I completely agree)

[murloc]

270. Criminals are frequently separated from their family.

Sometimes its incarceration, sometimes its deportation.

But its a choice they made when they made a choice to be a criminal.

[Blaze Diem]

287. Truth spoken...Citizens who break the law & end up doing 'time',

are separated from their kids also. Too bad for the family.
She at least had the option to keep her son with her. Maybe he would have been just happy to grow up with his mom by his side.
She chose to separate the bond. Too bad for the child.

She chose to break the law, then publicly tempt arrest. Then she left her son behind.

Did the church that kept her hidden, ever offer to assist her in gaining legal status so she and her child could remain together?
If so, why didn't she do so?
How important WAS this child to her?
To what lengths would she go to really protect their union as parent & child?

Seems she has had time to become legal in this country. What's her real problem?

Why put your own child through this turmoil if there was any way to prevent it.

I am beginning to question what kind of mother she really is.

If it were me..I'd have used my time in the church sanctuary to attain legal status to stay with my child, OR my child would be with me side by side..now in Mexico.

Why has she thwarted the laws of legalization? Why is she now crying about not haveing her son by her side?

piss poor excuse for a mom..all I have to say..

[Critters2]

292. She couldn't be granted legal status

She had broken several laws. She had crossed the border illegally twice--which exacerbates that. She had been caught using a fraudulent SS number, another law broken. And she ignored a deportation order issued in 1997.

There's no way she'll be granted legal status, and she knew it. So, she should have taken her son to Mexico. Or left him in the care of his father--whoever that is.

[verse18]

295. I wondered the same myself.

"Did the church that kept her hidden, ever offer to assist her in gaining legal status so she and her child could remain together?"

I totally agree with your post, BTW

[havocmom]

286. Because fathering or giving birth should not equal a pardon?

If someone is here illegally, they have committed a crime.

If you give a pass to anyone who fathers a child or gives birth here, you have to give a pass to any past criminal activity of anyone from another country if they manage to produce offspring on US soil.

Go ahead, flame me for being a racist. It will only show who doesn't know me at all.

Law. Obey or change, but don't circumvent. We have to enforce the LAW, all the way from the borders to the White House.

edited for typo

[Bridget Burke]

289. Yes, it gives the immigrant-haters a chance to feel good.

When my grandparents came over from East Galway, they had it easy. They passed their physicals at Ellis Island & were welcomed in. No expensive immigration lawyers were needed. Somehow--I just can't feel the Hate for people wanting to improve their lives today--because of a bunch of newish laws.

Some of the haters here have even shown they hate all immigrants--things are just getting too crowded. Overpopulation is a worldwide problem.

And those who bleat about The American Worker don't display their "concern" elsewhere.

[Critters2]

293. How would one display their concern in a way acceptable to you? nt

[Blaze Diem]

296. My ancestors came here same as yours...and they did NOT have it easy

The boat that brought them here was hardly a Princess Cruise liner..they were on it for days & days..many were crammed together with meeger trappings. Some brought with them disease and some died along the way. Those who made it were allowed off the ship..those who were ill at all were sent back..a long sad journey..many waited years to return to join family in the USA and some families were separated forever.Women, dads, children, grandparents..generations were lost.

This is what happened to my ancestors and why I say that they certainly did NOT have it easy.

I am all for people immigrating for the sake of improving their lives, but somehow I just cannot justify someone coming here and making no attempt to love this country enough to want legal status, yet demand this country love them enough to grant them all rights and benefits of its legal citizens.

Why didn't this lady take her child with her? He's already (apparently) been abandoned by one parent, now the mom does so also, because of her own thoughtlessness.
I'm sure the child will grow into a fine man, here in the USA, and those around him will care for him and see that hetravels to visit his family in Mexico...their heart is no doubt, in the right place..but perhaps this little kid would really just love to be held and loved by his mom at some point, and indeed regardless as to their status of life.
How could she leave him behind?

This is what breaks my heart about the situation. His abandonment. Not her plight, & criminal undoings...this little kid's abandonment.

[truebrit71]

297. I'm sorry but where do you get the idea she doesn't "love" this country enough...

..to WANT legal status....Isn't her legal status what this whole thing is all about?

Now there's a "love" quotient necessary for immigration?

[Blaze Diem]

300. WHy did she not apply for legal status, citizenship, etc 10 years ago?

Now that she's at the status of "criminal" and she can no longer do so, she wants the sympathy of her having born a child in the USA to get her ticket to freedom?
I love this country enough to want to fight for the care of its own impovershed, homless, hungry, forgotten, uneducated, out-of-work, imprisoned, falsley accused..etc. FIRST. Rather than give benefits to those who defy the laws of immigration.

There was a way for her to gain legal status at one time. She chose NOT to.

Hope she sent part of her wages from the airlines job back to family in Mexico.

She could own quite the nice hacienda by now.

How could she do this shit to her own child?
Fuck her & her poor-me sympathizers.

She broke the laws of this country. That tells me just how much she respects what was here for her.

done with this thread..

[truebrit71]

301. Do you know for a fact that she didn't at some point try that?

...oh that's right, you're 'done with this thread'....:eyes:

Bottom line, the kid is a U.S. citizen and there ought to be some workaround for the mother...

[Critters2]

320. She refers to Mexico as "my country". Has done so at least twice in interviews

since her arrest.


"From the time I took sanctuary the possibility has existed that they arrest me in the place and time they want," she said in Spanish. "I only have two choices. I either go to my country, Mexico, or stay and keep fighting. I decided to stay and fight." This a quote from USA Today...also quoted in the Chicago Tribune and other sources.

And from the Tribune, Monday..."Family friend Rev. Walter 'Slim' Coleman said late Monday he expects the boy will return to Chicago for school. Earlier, Arellano had said she hoped he would stay with her, but would take Saul's wishes into account.

'I will continue to tell him about the beauties of my country,' she said."

[flubadub]

299. hmmmmmm

What part of illegal and she broke the law don't you understand.

[truebrit71]

302. The part where her son is a US citizen....THAT part...

:eyes:

[stirlingsliver]

303. Isn't Her American CItizen Son Free

Isn't her American Citizen son free to accompany her when she leaves the USA?

Why did she abandon her 8-year-old son in the USA?

And wouldn't her American Citizen be able to sponsor his mother legally into the USA?

[truebrit71]

304. Why should the child have to leave at all? After all, he is a US citizen..

...and yes, she should be allowed to remain as the mother of the US citizen...

[stirlingsliver]

305. He's EIGHT Years Old!

Why shoud the child have to leave the USA?

For crying out loud, he's EIGHT YEARS OLD!

What sort of woman abandons her own son while she is forced to leave the USA?

I know of very few eight year old children who are able to care for themselves.

And I know of very few caring mothers who would desert their children just to make a point.

[BlooInBloo]

307. They *understand* - they just don't *care*.

[FuJun]

311. Enough...

Of this "she broke the law" nonsense. Law is nothing more than the codification of morality, and our laws are outdated and morally bankrupt. The welfare of the child is paramount, and his mother's defiance of the ruling racist patriarchs' fear of color is something we should admire. No human is illegal, ever.

[BlooInBloo]

312. It'll never be enough. Just like "tough on crime" being a plank for the republicans...

... and for exactly the same reason.