The Long Road to Hell

[Hydra]

“Ah! I have lost my freedom, and hell is now beginning.”

Albert Camus

I’ve lurked on DU for more than a year now, my best source of real news. My concern about Agent Mike kept me from registering, and besides, there are plenty of people who make the same points I would.

That was until 2 days ago. Darn that minimum posts thing :eyes:

Originalpckelly wrote this 2 days ago. I’ve been following the general trend regarding impeachment on DU since the Nov. 06 elections, and it started relatively 50/50 for/against judging from the posts, and has been leaning more and more toward impeachment since then, to the point that I would guess it’s roughly 80/20 in favor on DU currently. Not to say the other 20% wouldn’t like it to happen(although there are probably a few who would like the next President, assuming it’s a Dem, to assume the unitary exec position), but the argument continues to be “We don’t have the votes!”

Well, it struck me what is being said when we say “We don’t have the votes,” or “We need to win more seats” and “We need to win the Whitehouse,” is:

WE DON’T HAVE THE POWER.

Does that scare anyone here? It freaks me out, personally. :scared:

Dictionary.com:

Slave
–noun
1. A person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; a bond servant.
2. A person entirely under the domination of some influence or person: a slave to a drug.

Think that word is a tad extreme? The current Administration insists that the law does not apply to them, while they insist that we have to be spied on, protest in approved zones or shut up altogether, give up our property if they want it and support more troops in Iraq. Did I mention we have a state religion now?

We all knew something was up when they submitted the Military Commissions Act of 2006. I seem to recall them insisting that it did not apply to citizens, even as they held Jose Padilla as an enemy combatant. Keith Olbermann gave a great rant on this for those of you who weren’t with us at the time, here.

The really good stories of becoming hellbound show it as a gradual process. In the same way, our freedom is taken away piece by piece.

Some would say 6½ years is hardly a “long road,” but I assert that the people in charge are simply letting us know that we will not be given the illusion of self-determination anymore. “Freedom is for us and our children, and screw you and your ‘god given rights,’” would probably be their official statement. Here’s the problem with that: I don’t recall agreeing to that.

The Constitution is a contract. It had to be agreed to, which is why the Bill of Rights exists. WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT, NOT THEM. The government, our money, our laws and our policies MUST TO BE AGREED TO. They’ve convinced us that we must, at the very least, silently support them, no matter what insanity they come up with.

What they don’t want us to know is that in reality, THEY NEED US. The power is OURS.

The cries continue that we need more money and more Dems representing us. Ok, let’s try this:

Disband the Fed, and let’s see how powerful they are without their worthless pieces of paper. I’d like to see them keep paying Blackwater with their jewelry or anything else they’ve stolen from us of value.

Eliminate Corporate Welfare, and either restore the rights of normal people to declare bankruptcy or take away the right for large companies to do so when they feel it’s time to close up shop and head to Belize. Kill corporate “personhood” while you’re at it.

Break up the media and other megacorporations using existing antitrust laws.

Get rid of the http://www.wired.com/politics/security/news/2005/12/69893">Diebold machines and get rid of the “voting irregularities.”

These rather large problems add up to a rigged game that we are NOT going to win, no matter that we have 98% of the vote. Right now, 70% is already against the current administration, but somehow “We don’t have the votes.”

These issues, even though huge by themselves, are simply the smallest tip of an enormous black iceberg, some of which was admitted to in “The Family Jewels.” Even with the small admissions and blatant lawbreaking, we haven’t heard even 1/1000th of has been done in the name of “Freedom and the American way.”

Why does this matter if “we don’t have the votes”? Because it represents a challenge to who we thought we were. In reality, we’ve been destroying other people’s democracies for a long time now, but it was neatly swept under the rug, usually by stating “It was only those (insert undesirable term) people.” The time for that is over- either we are monsters, or we are a beneficial force in the world. We can’t be the former while claiming the latter, anymore.

IMO, impeachment or a new constitutional convention is called for. Can we do it? Certainly. Will we “win”? Maybe. The alternative is to allow repugnant acts to be done in our names, with our labor and blood.

"Democracy and freedom do not guarantee the millennium. No, we do not choose political freedom because it promises us this or that. We choose it because it makes possible the only dignified form of human coexistence, the only form in which we can be fully responsible for ourselves. Whether we realize its possibilities depends on all kinds of things — and above all on ourselves."

Karl Popper in "On Freedom" (1958)

[truedelphi]

1. Remember what some say happened to JFK when he tried to

Disband the Fed, or at least put us on a monetary standard that meant something for the average Joe or Jane.


Good ideas - all of them

Feinstein just nixed the idea of even the current Capital Hill discussion of this one: Get rid of the Diebold machines and get rid of the “voting irregularities.”

Corporate welfare ain't gonna go away until we get rid of the stranglehold that the two main parties have on the notion of eliminating personhood from corporations

[Hydra]

3. You're right, of course

Doing any of the things I suggested is a sure way to end up in a body bag. Nevertheless, we are going to have to have to slay the great Leviathan at some point. The Fed is going to have to be disbanded, the corporate parasites which include the Military Industrial Complex are going to have to be cut down to size, and we're going to have to take our voice back.

This is their paradise, and our hell. It's time we switched places, I think :D

[Dhalgren]

2. K&R! Welcome to DU!

Excellent observations and points. The real problem is that we are not who we think we are - not as "a People". The Democrats in congress are afraid of what might happen if they exert their power. It isn't that they don't have power, they just may not have enough of the right kind. For our Constitutional form of government to work, we have to assume that all members are acting in good faith and when they are shown not to be, they must be removed by whatever mechanism exist for that purpose. The Democrats are afraid that Bush and the Bush-Republicans will declare martial law and end the Republic. The problem is that if the Constitution is no longer in effect, the Republic is over anyway. And right now, Bush and the Bush-Republicans are behaving as though the Constitution has been suspended and the Democrats are loath to make that fact public knowledge...

[annabanana]

4. Great post to break-lurk with! Welcome to DU.

We are well down the road you describe.. but turning this big, slow ship is not impossible yet.

[glitch]

5. You

I like. Welcome to DU! K & R

[EstimatedProphet]

6. Of course, you're right

It couldn't possibly be anything like our Representatives are working, through the investigations, a case which will make both impeachment and conviction a reality. It couldn't possibly be that, knowing they don't have the votes, state that they don't have the votes for impeachment and then work to build a case which will win those votes over. No, it has to be because people like Conyers, who was not afraid of Nixon, who has always stood up for the rights of the people, has suddenly been bought off by Big Oil and the Bush Mafia. Clearly he is afraid to impeach because he's not trying to start proceedings RIGHT THIS INSTANT rather than have the investigations which are going on help to build a watertight case. You've found him out.

[Hydra]

8. ???

Are you reading another post? I strongly support the investigations, but I think they'll be blunted by the M$M and other entrenched factions. I'm suggesting we attack those entrenched factions using the tools already in place if we can't win by vote. They need to go, anyway.

I'm liking Conyers strategy, and have posted to that effect http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1441869&mesg_id=1442146">here. I'm all for gov't reform coming from congress, but if they won't charge the admin with the crimes they've committed, we ARE going to have to do something ourselves. * and crew have as much chance of giving up their power as they do showing up for Conyer's subpoenas and telling the whole truth.

The law has to stand, or we go back to "It's not illegal when the president does it."

[EstimatedProphet]

9. Maybe I am reading another post then

Maybe I read more into what you were saying than you meant. If I did, I apologize. I guess I've gotten used to seeing the argument that the investigations mean nothing because they don't have the name impeachment on them. That, and the "Conyers is a shill" griping that has been going on the last few days...there's been way too much name-calling lately.

I absolutely agree with you that impeachment should happen. I question the argument around DU that not having the votes is irrelevant. It makes no sense to talk about how investigations which aren't followed up with convictions are worthless, but an impeachment proceeding that results in no imeachment is valuable. for myself, the argument that we don't have the votes means nothing more than that we need to keep investigating, so that a case which will win the votes can be made. It means it's still early, not impossible.

[Hydra]

10. Remember what happened before today

Most of DU is upset and forming camps for good reason.

Remember that Condi was supposed to show up? What ever happened to that? Months more for Gonzales to show up and claim not to know anything? Contempt charges...IN A MONTH?!?! We should SO not be waiting for the Iraq report to be taking the Admin to task.

In other words, where is the bite to go with the bark? It really looked like the WH was gonna be able to run out the clock before today. As long as Conyers has the heat on, and it's not leading to more people dying or more time for the WH to think up new realms of (illegal) presidential power, I'm more than happy to support the Judiciary Committee. Otherwise, we have to get the jackhammers out and dismantle the culture of "privilege."

[EstimatedProphet]

13. Fine. Maybe things are playing below the surface.

Maybe there's no bite right now because it's coming later. Maybe we are letting them stick their own heads in the noose, rather than doing it for them. But regardless of what happened this week, I still resent the namecalling, especially when it's directed at other DUers.

[OneGrassRoot]

7. A new Constitutional Convention - bravo !!!

Like you, I rarely log in let alone post. DU is the best source of news and opinions (IMHO), but for your post, I had to participate to K & R.

I'm ready for a revolution so We The People can wake up and realize we are not powerless.

:toast:

[Swamp Rat]

11. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Hydra]

12. hahaha!

Too bad that's the truth

Thank you for the welcome