Flag burning: one vet's viewpoint.

[11 Bravo]

If this sounds like one more war story from a bitter old fart, I apologize in advance.

In August of 1970 I was a 19 year old PFC who found himself in the A Shau Valley, as a part of operation Texas Star. On August 15 we engaged in a brief, but fierce firefight, with elements of the 7th NVA Front. No big deal, it happened thousands of times over the course of the war. We had no KIA, but several wounded. Hell, I even got a Heart for a flesh wound. (It wasn't until much later that I realized that an AK-47 has a muzzle velocity of 700 meters/second, and at that speed there's not a fuck of a lot of difference between the one that grazes your hip, and the one that pops you right in the 10 ring.) In any case, we got off relatively lightly, but we had been bloodied, and we were pissed. So that evening, I climbed off my litter, and with a couple of buddies we found the highest spot within our perimeter, and jury-rigged a flag. All we were saying was, "Fuck you, we're still here, and if you want another piece, come on back tomorrow." It was speech, in perhaps it's purest form.
And if flying the flag is speech, so is burning it. So if any chickenhawk Republican looking for a wedge issue on which to run, wishes to criminalize that speech, or question my patriotism for not supporting their "Flag Protection" amendment, I hope at least one of them has the guts to say it to my face.

[wakeme2008]

1. Most Vets feel this way

only the Never been in the Military types fall for this Repug shit.

[TahitiNut]

8. I hope so. I sure do.

Almost nothing could be more hypocritical than the desecration of the flag by criminalizing the protest of 'desecrating' it. The very act of burning the flag is, in my opinion, it's consecration.

[tomp]

35. kinda like atheism

heard salman rushdie say (paraphrase): nobody thinks about god more than an atheist.

[Kenergy]

2. I agree n/t

[Monkeyman]

3. The Valley of Death Welcome Home Brother

Been in that dam Valley 68-69 And you post is the truth. Hooya Brother keep telling it like it was, is and will be for us who served

[cry baby]

4. Thank you for your service. Your story spells out clearly...

where Americans need to be on this issue.

[Monkeyman]

5. Hey Brother

Go to the Progressive Daily Beacon there a story about Rummy and the Tiger Camps cover up

[TomInTib]

6. I was just north of you in '70.

Qua Viet River (PBR).

And I fully agree with you.

[madokie]

7. I am with you. basically I want the same freedoms in leaving this

world as I had in arriving, to be insured the future will still be there for those who come after me. Thats why I volunteered way back when. thats why I am prepared to take to the streets today.

[checkmate1947]

12. Frickin Radicals!!!!!

Ya'll keep this up they will call all of us
""terraist"" we  will have to take to the
streets again and be in another fire fight,,,Keep it up Bro.
maybe they will pay attention soon, Bunch of old fart like us
in the streets is Dangerous.

[BOSSHOG]

17. Old Fart checking in here

I'm still under oath to protect the constitution against all enemies foreign and DOMESTIC. I look forward to the next civil war.

[11 Bravo]

26. If it comes to that, I've got your back, Boss.

[sutz12]

9. Never went to 'Nam....but I served USMC '70-77

Like most vets I know, I have a very real :wtf: feeling every time some chickenhawk tries to say he is speaking for me when he brings up "protecting the flag."

I want to tell my Republican brethren, "Hey, shithead, if you feel that strongly, enlist. Don't try that political bullshit to cover your pansy ass."

[Monkeyman]

14. That's Ok Jar head LOL

You didn't miss a thing.You served the Replugs cut an ran

[BOSSHOG]

16. Semper Fi Marine

I keep enlistment forms in my glove compartment. Wanna see a chickenhawk cut and run? Offer him a form and volunteer to drive him to the recruiting office. Just what reason do chickenhawks have for being patriotic? Our president, the deserter and liar? The systematic destruction of our constitution by the party of integrity?

[Redstone]

33. No shit? That's fucking great. How many times have you done it?

God Damn, you gotta videotape one of your "handouts." I bet it's a riot.

Redstone

[BOSSHOG]

39. The favorite response I've gotten

I havent't served in the military "yet." And I've gotten that one on more than one occasion. It must be in their talking points handout. My favorite confrontation was when a chickenhawk told me in my favorite watering hole in November 2002 that I should join the Army to prove my love of country since I opposed any military action in Iraq. I showed him my military retiree ID Card and told him about my one tour in a combat zone then asked him where he had served. I got the above response from him and he left the bar never to be seen again.

[BOSSHOG]

10. Roger that Teammate!

Isn't it amazing what excites the lemmings? The chickenhawks cringe when they discover they are yakking at a vet.

[JohnnyRingo]

11. They want to imprison people for burning a flag.

Maybe they can spring the marijuana smokers they insisted do time to make room.
Maybe we can grant early parole to some pedophiles and clear up a few bunks for these new criminals.

Right wingers always want expanded criminalization but balk when the tax bill arrives to build new prisons, and don't even consider building one in their back yard.

Come to think of it, since no one ever suggested a law to stop bible burning, does that mean they want to place the flag symbolically above God?

Most likely, the Republican's fear is that someone will try to burn one while they have it wrapped protectively around their power grabbing asses.

[druidity33]

22. au contraire...

i don't know if i spelled that correctly... but i think that the Rethugs would be happy to funnel more money to Halliburton types for prison-building and some "mercenary" firm to stock the place with guards. Then they'll make the prisoners work for pennies an hour in the prison-industial-complex, manning call-centers, making signs and plates, maybe they'll even merge a Wal-Mart distribution center to the prison wing... i see no end in sight for the possibilities. They've been wanting to bring back slavery for awhile now and here's their chance.... :(

Didn't you know it's one of the only "growth" industries left in the US?

[JohnnyRingo]

29. Then the Chinese will attack us for sure to solve their unemployment woes

The Chinese have been employing their prison population for years.
Now, one wouldn't want to get caught jaywalking in Bejing.

When I was young, everything was made in Japan.
Then our cheap crap was made in Korea.... then Taiwan
Then Central America
Now China.

You're right, corporate America has been on a constant quest for labor that's as close to free as possible.

Now with an administration that put the finishing touches their model economy, they find the answer to high labor costs has been right under their noses all along.

Sometimes it's all I can do not to weep openly at what it's come to.

[Bandit]

13. Flew out of My Loc and into that valley many times

I agree with your sentiments one hundred and ten percent..

[Monkeyman]

15. Holy Crap there is a lot of us from that dam valley

[Monkeyman]

18. Its 12.12 here so this drink I Spill is for the Brother we left in that Va

[Bandit]

19. Differnece between a Liberal and Conservative

Conservatives wrap themselves in the flag and burn the Constitution while Liberals wrap themselves in the Constitution and burn the flag(not really but defend the right)

[Stinky The Clown]

20. You old fart

I don't find one bit of bitterness in your sentiment. Indeed, what you feel is what virtually every vet I know feels. Funny, isn't it, that its always the chickenhawks who yell the loudest about 'protecting' shit?

[Lowell]

21. Welcome Home Brother

I was in the 5th Inf Mech up around Monkey Mountain, Black Virgin, A4C2 during 68-69. Bled for the flag and I'll sure as hell burn it if I feel like it.

[Joe Fields]

23. I wouldn't bother to burn the flag. It (as the symbol it once stood for)

means nothing to me. The republicans have abused this symbol so completely by wrapping themselves so tightly in it, while echoing their bullshit, jingoistic rantings, that it is no longer recognizable to me as anything meaningful. I would just as soon wipe my ass on it.

[11 Bravo]

24. Damn, there are a lot of us here, aren't there?

How did a progressive message board (which by definition must be populated by America-hating pussies)wind up with so many warriors? (And whether or not you saw combat, if you served, that possibility always existed.) I salute you all.

[Major Hogwash]

30. A lot more than I used to think there was, but they all got drawn to this

forum like millers flying around the light on Grandpa's barn.

It's pretty cool seeing so many Vietnam veterans post here.

I heard there is a forum on the internet for Bush veterans, but it has been AWOL for 6 years.

LoL

[Monkeyman]

36. They got a new one head up

Its called VETS FOR FREEDOM. they will be a swiftboat Org I know I am ready to rumble with them. None are Combat vets

[Redstone]

34. Now, that right there is a hell of a question.

Wonder if they'll be answering it on any of the freep boards?

Redstone

[vickitulsa]

25. Wow, there ARE a lot of you old farts around here -- so glad

to see ya speaking out about the flag-burning thing. My boyfriend was Navy, SEAL Team Six, actually, god-knows-where near and in Vietnam '69-70. Lost his swim buddy to a sniper during his first tour. He hates these chickenhawk Repugs in charge of our military now as much as I do.

Welcome home, all you boys who served then and speak out proudly now! :hi: 11-B's to occifers, I love ya all! :hug:

[walldude]

27. But... But... But... Flag burnings are up 33% this year

they went from 3 to 4. This insidious crime is ruining our country. Next year it could be 5 or even 6 flag burnings. Fuck those 40 million people without health care, we need to stop flag burning :eyes:

[grannylib]

28. Great post. I wish I were able to post some pix of REAL flag desecration

like the flag-imprinted undies from the Target flyer last Independence Day, or the 3/4 of a faded, tattered flag fluttering limply alongside an obscenely large Chimp/Cheney sign before election theft 2004, right up the road from me...

There are FAR worse ways to dishonor the flag than burning it...and the worst is to dishonor what it stands for.

I love our flag; I love its symbolism and its design. I find it beautiful. As a Girl Scout, I was always SO PROUD to be part of the Color Guard: to carry it into church on GS Sunday; to raise and lower it respectfully and properly at camp; to fold it correctly...it meant so much to me. But as beautiful and precious as it is, what it represents is FAR more beautiful and precious than the cloth itself.

I wish our kids were pledging allegiance to the Constitution instead...

[Redstone]

31. Right the fuck on. Yes, yes indeed.

Redstone

[UTUSN]

32. I'd give you a ride on a ship, with cafeteria, ANYTIME

Here's chickenhawk O'LOOFAH receiving the VFW Errect Loofah Award

[Monkeyman]

37. Now that funny

Blanket party for Bill LOL

[roamer65]

38. Yellow Elephants and Chickenhawks

run fast and furious away from folks like you. You're too strong a dose of truth for them to handle. ;)