OFFICIAL TRUTHOUT/LEOPOLD THREAD 20

[pinto]

From Skinner:

We are instructing the moderators to lock all threads about Jason Leopold and his Rove indictment story. If you wish to continue discussing this issue, you may do so here.

When this thread reaches approximately 100 replies, the moderators will lock it and open a new one.

Thank you for your understanding.

Skinner
DU Admin

Thread 19 is here:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1240252&mesg_id=1240252

[titoresque]

1. I'm first in line. NA-NA-NA-NA-NA!!!

[DancingBear]

5. Rat, rat, rat!!!

Sincerely,

The Beaver

[titoresque]

9. Hey no cutting!!!

And you're in my personal space!!!
Sheesh! :rofl: :hi:

[Sperk]

33. I believe it's, NYA, NYA, NYA, NYA,NYA. But I could be wrong.

:-)

[titoresque]

93. I was trying to be first

I had little time to get the spelling right...Dancing Bear was fast on my heels! :)

[alcibiades_mystery]

2. I SUPPORT LEOPOLD AND LOEB!!! I STAND WITH TRUTHINESS!!!

:evilgrin:

[Moloch]

10. hahahhahahahhahaha hahahahahahahahahaha

OMG

what an obscure reference.

loves it.

[DancingBear]

11. I LEOPOLD STAND WITH AND!!! SUPPORT I TRUTHINESS LOEB !!!!

Anyone seen the pilot drunken???

[alcibiades_mystery]

98. I STAND WITH ALGORITHMS!

;-)

[Catherine Vincent]

3. Fitz!!

[WiseButAngrySara]

4. 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.....

[Dave Reynolds]

6. And, just because this cannot get any more absurd.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=5174055&mesg_id=5174055

[althecat]

19. Does that count as a leopold thread dave?

[Dave Reynolds]

27. A parody of it all.

I am Leopold!

Okay, not really.

[Connie_Corleone]

7. Has it been 24 business hours yet??

:evilgrin:

[TankLV]

63. It's 24 UKRAINIAN hours!

No - it's 24 POLISH hours!

No wait wait - it's 24 DOG hours!

Wait wait - I'll get it right yet...

[Seabiscuit]

105. 24 Uranus-ian hours.

It may not take a long time for Pitt to circle Uranus, but it takes a loooooooong 24 hours for Uranus to circle the sun.

[Kingofalldems]

8. That statement from TO said absolutely nothing

Hopefully Mr. Pitt will join us tonight to elaborate.

[jjmalonejr]

16. It sure sounded lame

Either they just can't admit Leopold got the story wrong or there's some serious inside baseball we don't know about.

[Kingofalldems]

22. He said there was a story behind the story

or something like that. I'd like to know what it was.

[jjmalonejr]

28. Who said there was a story behind the story?

n/t

[Kingofalldems]

37. Mr. Pitt---in so many words.

Which was yesterday I believe.

[jjmalonejr]

45. Well, my past perception of Pitt is that he's a straight shooter

I just wish he would share the story.

Truthout's cryptic "semi-apology" really muddies things too. If they have something to say, they should say it. Either retract the story or explain why it only APPEARS that Leopold got it wrong.

[Kingofalldems]

57. I just clicked back to TO

And the story is still there. Somebody needs to clue us in, this makes no sense.

[jjmalonejr]

60. Still there AND still linked to from their homepage

[yourguide]

12. crow for dinner for me...

I for one supported jason, will, and truthout but it appears to me they got the facts wrong. period.

So for now I will suck it up, and see it for what it is...reporting with the best intentions but not seemingly based in fact.

I'm very disappointed, for a number of reasons...one that Rove was not indicted, two that the story did not pan out, and three well we do really look like a bunch of wing nuts for touting it as truth.

The truth out "apology" was um, well it was what it was but I want Jason Leopold and William Pitt to explain themselves and to, if necessary, out their sources. If they want to maintain our trust then they owe us that.

Grrrrrrrrr. Such a let down.

[Robbie Michaels]

13. OMG

I've been ignoring these threads because I'm still awaiting the outcome, but if you guys are trying to set the record for the longest thread, count me in!

Someone pass the :popcorn:

[titoresque]

15. .

It's a sit-in. I think we're gonna sing later.
Wants some salt?

[DancingBear]

18. Celery salt?? n/t

[titoresque]

26. really?

Never thought about Celery salt. A friend of mine used to sprinkle her popcorn with Brewers yeast. She loved it. Strange.
:popcorn::hi:




Frog march the Bastard!!!!!




edited: because it didn't seem friendly enough, and I'm in a friendly mood. :)

[Sal Minella]

59. A friend of mine used to sprinkle her popcorn with Brewers yeast.

Parmesan cheese. Mmmmm.

Or, when in a deeply degenerate mood, melted peanut butter instead of melted butter. Mmmmmm.

[Robbie Michaels]

69. Mmmmm

I think it was Orville Redenbacher who had the sour cream and onion-flavored microwave :popcorn:

[tishaLA]

But we're not in Chicago

And popcorn is not a hot dog.


Hugs and Stuff,

Mistress of Obviousness

[Moloch]

14. Amusing message from DailyKOS

Sticky wicket (3+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Avila, boofdah, bebacker

He breaks a journalistic ethic like that....but otoh, did he not get his leg pissed on and told it was raining?
Maybe he should smoke another rock and think it over.

And I'd have gotten away with it, too, if it hadn't been for those meddling kids.(-8.50\-7.13)

by kestrel9000 on Fri May 19, 2006 at 06:04:33 PM PDT

< Parent >

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/5/19/205243/499

[twalling]

41. There's a bunch o' fun Leopold Stuff going on at KOS...

I, personally, declared "Shenanigans" on Truthout earlier, and there's been 3 or 4 diaries about their half-assed "apology" since it came out. I wasn't able to come over and thank people for complimenting my diary when it was posted in thread 16 or so earlier, I had a 24-hour delay put on my login, 'cause I'm new. Anyways, what did I miss?

[Moloch]

87. LOL wow....

You've missed quite a bit, but I believe all the important stuff was covered in your "Shenanigans" article.

You probably would have gotten a kick out of the I STAND WITH PITT AND LEOPOLD!!! posts. I know I did.

Welcome to DU :hi:

[IndianaGreen]

101. I think you pretty much covered all the bases in your diary, twalling

I must compliment you.

:applause:

[demobabe]

104. welcome the DU!

great diary, and you haven't missed much here. folks have posted they have to go over to kos to see what's being said on the DU!

some realtime fun drama and denial here...

[NNadir]

52. Can thread #21 be in the Lounge?

Of course it would be better not to have a thread #21.

I've avoided all of this mostly. I did check in on these threads from time to time trying to understand what was going on, and I saw one outstanding post with real thinking, H20man's post about evidence and decision trees. That shows how fine the thinking on DU can be. Other stuff, of course, shows that even here we can have poor thinking, but let's not forget that for which we are here.

I don't think the story is true. But though I don't really know Will Pitt that well, and don't follow his work all that much, what I've seen of him I like very much. He seems like a good man with excellent skills and fine intentions. If he's been had, I feel bad for him, but not superior to him in any way. I've been had in various ways in my lifetime. Some things I believed were true proved not to be so.

It may still happen that Rove is indicted. It may happen that Cheney is indicted. It may happen that Bush is dragged in chains before the court at the Hague.

I have lost hope in none of this. In spite of the Repukes best efforts, not much is veiled in secrecy any more.

[Karmakaze]

75. If you havent followed it...

You wont have seen how Will Pitt treated people who asked questions. Sure HE may have been had, but he also directly insulted DU, the admins and people who asked questions. He needs to apologise. And not one of those non-apology apologies that they seem to be in favour of over at TO either.

[titoresque]

78. HEY!

This is a sit-in! They'll have to drag us to the lounge, and we'll go limp, and we'll lock keyboards, and.....HELL NO I WON'T GO!!!

[Karmakaze]

88. Watch it - they call out the Riot Mods!

And we'll be pepper deleted!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

17. I Will Continue To Support Them Until We Know What Is Going On.

Hang in there guys.

[jjmalonejr]

25. Seriously, can you even construct a story in your imagination...

...that rescues Leopold's credibility on this one.

I'd like to hear you speculate, because creative as I am I really can't come up with one.

[stepnw1f]

36. Do you Really Give a Shit What He Thinks?

Did ya have to get personal just because the guy wants to wait. Back OFF!

[jjmalonejr]

51. First of all, I wasn't talking to you

Second of all, I didn't get personal, I just asked him a question. Why are you telling me to back off. This is a discussion board, isn't it.

I would honestly like to hear his ideas (or anyone's ideas for that matter) of the story behind the story.

[titoresque]

70. I thought OMC

was a girl. I never look at profiles. Hmmm, interesting, I'll still picture a woman though in my mind. Sorry, LOL. :)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

95. LOL Really? That's Too Funny!

I am just me though. Man, woman, doesn't much make a difference in the end of it all. Only comes down to perception, heart, integrity, genuine caring for others, honesty and reflection. Anyone can partake in such things so gender has always been irrelevant to me when characterizing a person. :)

But yeah, I'm a guy. But I do watch american idol LOL

[titoresque]

99. :)

"I am just me though. Man, woman, doesn't much make a difference in the end of it all. Only comes down to perception, heart, integrity, genuine caring for others, honesty and reflection."

That's exactly why I don't look at profiles. I'm not perfect and I know I have preconceived notions about things. Women. Men. Geography. So I don't look. :)
If it matters though I pictured you as a very pretty woman. Not ugly by any means :) LOL!

Have a great night!

[stepnw1f]

34. I'm with Ya

fuck the sour pusses. I'm not biting into their negativity and freepish personal attacks. "yuh... let's bring down a liberal media source that has been pretty good the majority of the time for possibly getting a story wrong. Duh" ... brilliant naysayers... keep up the great work. By the way... you'd think these same naysayers actually did more for the left than TO has.

I'll wait for confirmation before burning a fellow liberal at the stake. Besides... TO has it right most of the time and I enjoy the writing. Come and get me noble naysayers.

[jjmalonejr]

40. You'll wait for confirmation?

Confirmation of what?

[stepnw1f]

47. Yeah Confirmation

you have a personal problem with that? Don't want me giving fellow liberals a chance to come clean? Want me to tag along and put tear another liberal down? What's your real problem? Do ya think really they intentionally threw this story out to fuck with the left? I can't go along with you Sparky, so get lost... you aint foolin' no one.

[jjmalonejr]

58. What are you talking about?

No, I don't have a personal problem. You're jumping to conclusions.

The story was wrong. On many, many points. There's no debating that now. I just would like to know why. It hurts the credibility of net journalists when a high profile organization like TruthOut get's such a big story so spectacularly wrong.

I'm not attacking or demonizing anyone. I like Will Pitt. I don't know Jason Leopold at all, but I'm not accusing him of making things up, but he really needs to explain himself. And there could be a could be a legitimate explanation, I just can't think of one.

[Karmakaze]

91. Hey why don;t you call the naysayers cretins too?

And the admins - its all the rage over at TO.

[Sydnie]

85. Everyone is forgetting that Leopold wasn't the only one

to hear the same story ... from different places and different faces.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1183853&mesg_id=1183853

I can wait for what ever is to happen to happen too.

edit typo

[Jazz2006]

20. RadioGuy - response from the last thread

I couldn't respond to your #113 because the thread was locked by the time I saw it.

But, to answer your question, no, the thread you linked to was not the thread at issue. It was an exchange between the "magic man" and me on a thread here last weekend which, apparently, cannot be reproduced or discussed here for some reason.

[Flubadubya]

21. Is Jason Leopold going to "out" his sources now?

He said he would if the story fell through. Well... :shrug:

[Sperk]

23. T-enacious. O.K. I'm in, I say we keep this going until rove is either

indicted or cleared.

Why hasn't he been cleared yet? No news is GOOD news, yeah, that's the ticket!
:evilgrin:

[sheelz]

43. No news is good news!

Fitz has another monster to take down:



That's what it's all about.

[spindrifter]

24. Looks like this has turned into Lounge-opold.

I am totally bummed. Yes. I woke up today and spent a number of hours--up to the last minute EDT that I thought there could possibly be an official press release on the much awaited event--hoping. Well, it's kind of like in the old pre-caesarean birth days: they would tell you when the baby was due, but many a due date came and went with no little bundle to take home.

[titoresque]

30. but you finally got to take the baby home

right? :patriot: We shall stand vigilant! er, we'll stay logged on. Yeah! :patriot:

[Dave Reynolds]

31. I prefer Leopolooza. nt

[slingsam]

44. or leopoozold....couldn't help myself!

but....

I love that Americans.....have awakened!

[Jazz2006]

35. But in this case they told Mom that the baby was born last Friday

but, a week later, she hasn't even gone into labor.

:hi:

[titoresque]

39. She's been in labor for a long time!

Perhaps there were complications giving birth and the baby had to stay another week or so at the hospital. :shrug:

[spindrifter]

48. Yeah--maybe it's a bigger baby than they expected.

[Jazz2006]

54. Doesn't change the fact that the baby still hasn't been born....

and they reported that the birth had, in fact, occurred a week ago.

[titoresque]

73. We can't know for certain that the baby

hasn't been born.
We wait. :)

[Jazz2006]

77. Sure we can....

if the history of even the last couple hundred years of other births is anything to base things on.

[titoresque]

89. Every labor

and delivery is different. Also, it seems like we're dealing with parents who really don't want to be bothered with a large family gathering. Perhaps this is a birth out-of-wedlock and the parents are extreme religious nut cases. I could see where one parent might want to keep things quiet until the family calms down and focuses on another sibling perhaps an older brother that outs himself as being gay and in a bi-racial relationship?

[Jazz2006]

102. Sure, but in this case, the parents have no control over the

birth announcement. The "delivering physician" does.

And, to stray from the birthing process analogy and move to the real world of indictments for a moment....

Recall that the article said not only that an indictment had been handed up by the GJ (although they got the terminology wrong - no surprise there), it also said that Rove was SERVED with the indictment.

When an indictment is handed up by the GJ, the presiding judge also issues a warrant for the indictee so that the indictee can be lawfully arrested when he is served with the indictment.

Had the article been true and had Rove been served with an indictment last Friday, he would have been arrested, not left to flit about working in the White House for another week, month or year.

[DoYouEverWonder]

29. I guess Fitzgerald accomplished something today

Asking judge to deny Libby's motion to compel.


http://www.zinzang.com/siteframe/files/0002/05-19-06_Gov_s_Response_to_Def_s_3rd_Motion_to_Compel.pdf


Edit: Don't know whether or not judge made a decision.

[BurtWorm]

32. Message from outside world: Lamont is on the primary ballot in CT

He needed 15% of the delegates casting ballots at the state Dem convention. He got 33.4%

Carry on.

[Wrinkle_In_Time]

38. I just did a really stinky fart...

... for that, I "issue a partial apology to our readership".

WTF?

I mean, seriousy (seriosly, seriesly) WTF does a "partial apology" mean? OK, I offer partial forgiveness to truthout.org. Figure that one out.

Man up, nancy!

[yourguide]

46. lol n/t

[DisgustedTX]

42. Start your own fartinthree!businessdays.org site

Yes!

[symbolman]

49. Some of you may have seen my Emergency for Skinner Post that night

On the Night of the Long Beers when Pitt was posting an attack on Skinner and others my wife showed it to me, and we saw that it had been edited, and saved it - then she showed me the post, by a Scamdy guy no less. on DailyKos who had the Original post. We saw right away that this could potentially be a major problem for Pitt, Skinner and most of all Joe Wilson himself.

The edited version which was self deleted fairly quickly after that did not show what the Original had, that Pitt was basically PUBLICLY OUTING Joe Wilson as His Source or Leopold's for the "ROVE INDICTED TODAY" article.

I realised that this was viral and contacted Skinner (by posting an EMERGENCY Title in General Discussion for a MOD to contact Skinner STAT), through the Mod and directly to Skinner's PM box.

I was scared shitless that Pitt had just place Wilson in all kinds of potential Legal Jeopardy, as well as handing something over to the Right wing Media machine, and was worried that Wilson would suffer for it. I figured that if Skinner contacted KOS he might have been able to make the Post outing Wilson as TO's SOURCE dissappear by talking to folks there. Not only to keep Skinner from being dragged through the mud all over the Web, but to make sure that Joe Wilson was not being screwed by this.

I realise that Larry Johnson (and it was verified it was him) posted that he and Joe Wilson had "heard" that.. and hadn't read that post, but to me that was entirely different from Wilson being exposed as a SOURCE of an Indictment UNANNOUNCED by Fitz and IN PUBLIC by someone who was not in control.

This is a Federal case, and it's about LEAKS. Not being a lawyer I didn't know if Wilson could now possibly be dragged into a pissed off Grand Jury, maybe charged with something himself if it could be shown that he appeared to have given out information BEFORE Fitz or the Grand Jury. And think about how it could have affected Libby's Defense, part of which is that they claim Wilson was talking about his wife (in effect by their standards, "outing her" himself) to many people before anyone else could have given out her identity and profession.

I simply did not know how potentially dangerous this posting was, not being a lawyer. I'd heard that Joe and Valerie were thinking of sueing Rove in a Civil suit later, and what would be the impact on that?

I worried that if Luskin saw that post running around the web he might actually get ROVE OFF. I thought "Oh Boy, the Right Wing Media could have a field day with THIS post - hammering it all over the web, that Wilson "leaked" GJ information, so how could he be trusted, etc.

So I also contacted Mr Wilson, sent him all copies and explained that I was concerned that he might get hit by a ton of bricks by this post out of nowhere, whether it was true or NOT, the appearance of unseemliness on his part as portrayed by an out of control OP of the article Written by Leopold was probably something he didn't need. Or could be dangerous to him, his wife, etc.

At no time did I on either contact write anything negative about Pitt, tho I did mention to Skinner that I thought Pitt was under a lot of stress, might be sweating "bullets AND beer", and that maybe Will Pitt could use a few AA meetings or something.

So, to any Lawyers out there, was that over reacting, or did those posts potentially put Wilson in legal danger? I'm damned sure the Right could make a lot of hay with it, innuendoes that Wilson "leaks" info, and before Fitz does.. Couldn't he be held accountable in some fashion, "Interferring with a Federal Prosecution" or some such thing?

I hope to god not. But I decided not to take any chances, especially when I saw how fishy this whole thing was. Never trusted Leopold from the start, and had read that he OUTED sources, and was NOT going to let that happen to one of my American heroes and a Patriot, Joe Wilson..

[SPKrazy]

55. Witnesses Can Talk-But Witnesses Wouldn't Know About Indictment

I don't know if Wilson is a witness or not

of course he wouldn't know about an indictment unless someone leaked to him

[karlrschneider]

81. A few thoughts on that

First, I doubt Joe would even have known one way or the other unless he had been told by Fitz himself.

And if he did have knowledge I can't imagine him relaying that info only to Jason and/or Will but nobody else - you know some other news person -must- have managed to find and ask him...at least that's what I think.

Do you know if Wilson ever went before the GJ? I don't recall ever hearing that he did but obviously I might have missed it if he did.

I do think it could have been a LOT worse...if the SCLM had decided to repeat the indictment claims, TO isn't really known to the general public to the degree it was/is to DUers and Dem wonks.

[Catherine Vincent]

50. How come the Leopold/Will revelation have a bunch of

new poster names that I don't recognize? And trust me, I've been here a while.

[SPKrazy]

56. I'm Sure That Out Of 80,000 + Registrations, There Are Those

who only come out of the woodwork when they think the time is right

(whatever that means, you are right to question it though I think)

[yourguide]

64. well...

I can speak for myself in saying, after hearing about the TO article I googled to see who else had it posted and found you guys.

And I am so so so glad I found you guys, I was lost without you... :grouphug: lol

[Ariana Celeste]

67. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[yourguide]

79. thank you thank you!!! n/t

[jjmalonejr]

68. Do you recognize me?

[BeatleBoot]

53. Hey, A Nostradamus re-run is on the History Channel

It's gotta be better 'n' posting here...

:banghead:

[DisgustedTX]

62. Did Nostradamus shout SH for TRUTHOUT?

Likely not.

[Catherine Vincent]

65. Bye!

Let us know you you like it. :hi:

[MrSlayer]

61. I just want to say "Hi." to Wonko if he's reading this.

That is all.

[Karmakaze]

66. Reply To: OPERATIONMINDCRIME

Because The Notion That He Made It All Up Carries No Validity In Reality.

So no, I wouldn't recognize that as an option.

Either the story is true and is not yet public for a reason yet to be known, or the story was written based on a trusted source that turned out to be deceitful. I'm still believing in the former, but time will tell if truly was the latter.

What the hell, are you serious? First you make a claim, then deny that you made it, then when I prove you did, you act like it was true all along? No wonder you support Leopold.

To insist that the idea that Leopold made it up carries no validity in reality is downright stupid - HE HAS DONE IT BEFORE!!!!

Seriously - I was angry at the guy for taking advantage of people, but some people just ask for it.

[jjmalonejr]

71. Do you seriously think Leopold made it all up?

I'm finding it hard to figure out how the story turned out to be so spectacularly wrong, but why would Leopold make something up that could be proven demonstrably false within a week's time?

Color me confused.

[Moloch]

72. Because he's a crackhead?

n/t

[jjmalonejr]

76. How many sources do you have for that story?

Don't go out on a limb with it unless your sources are bulletproof.

[Moloch]

80. He wrote a book about being a drug addict.

You know, News Junkie.

Here's an ad for his book.

http://processmediainc.com/press/mini_sites/news_junkie/

[yourguide]

82. uh yeah...

but at this point, consider the source...j/k

[Karmakaze]

86. LOL!!!!

Brilliant!

[Moloch]

94. ROFL

:rofl:

[jjmalonejr]

84. Oh. Didn't know.

That's why I'm not a reporter.

[Karmakaze]

83. I don't know, but I suspect it...

Why would he make up such a big lie? Well the big lies are the most believable because no one would think you could get away with it. So all he has to do is deny deny deny, and insist that his "sources" told him, and many people will continue to believe simpliy because it seems so inconceivable that he would lie.

Bush does it all the time.

Still I am not saying he DID make it up, only that it is a possibiltiy that Leopold and Truthout have to PROVE is not the case.

[Sydnie]

90. Why would Larry Johnson make this up?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1183853&mesg_id=1183853

[sheelz]

97. Rumors are spread around DC all the time.

It's doesn't mean that Rove won't be indicted.

[Karmakaze]

103. Make what up?

All I see there is someone claiming to be Johnson saying what everyone has been told by TO.

If you go to Johnson's blog you find this:

by
Larry C Johnson

As Freddy Mercury sang, "Another One Bites the Dust".

Jason Leopold beats the Main Stream Media Stenographers again. Check his story out.

Will we see the following real world?

http://noquarter.typepad.com/

Thats the last thing he wrote on the issue. Now if Johnson had independent confirmation, don't you think he would have posted something about it on his own blog? You know, possibly the biggest story of the year? But nothing.

So how do we know that poster WAS Johnson? Leopold is well known for sockpuppetry - posing as other poeple to support himself, so who is to say he didn't do it here? If Johnson is the poster, all he has to do is put a note about it on his blog to prove it.

[jjmalonejr]

92. Imagine this

Leopold got burned by ALL of his sources. But he's reluctant to out them for fear that his high-level sources (who may very well have a lot more credibility than he) will just deny they ever spoke with him, making him look like more of a fool.

Or maybe he's just lying.

[Stevendsmith]

74. This week really sucked. Thanks, Mr. Lie-opold. (n/t)

[titoresque]

96. Goodnight all!

Going to get some dinner and visit my wife at work.
I'll be gone but I stand vigilant!!! :patriot:

Peace.

[alcibiades_mystery]

100. On the island of Manango, they caught a shark

When they opened up its belly, they found an undigested man.
When they opened up the man's belly, they found an undigested baby shark...

Believe it...or not.

[pinto]

106. Please continue discussion here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1241554