Come Walk With Me 4: The Music Makers

[chknltl]

I love photography but I confess to being somewhat shy...so for the longest time I only shot LANDSCAPES! The very thought of actually posing a stranger in order to get the shot they wanted was something I feared. Like most novices with a camera, I got roped into doing a friends wedding. Total disaster sums that fiasco up nicely. There is a damned good reason professional wedding photographers get paid the big bucks, (relatively speaking). This did little to ease my fears of shooting people.

Then I was asked by a friend to photograph her kid's band, no posing, no predetermined shots just go and shoot them live at the club they were performing at. Easy? Yeah right, but at least it was not the disaster that first wedding was and some of the screw-ups looked cool to the band. I had the foresight to meet with the band BEFOREHAND and explained to them what a novice I was, they were fine with this, they even placed me on their guest list and made sure I was allowed up front...not that it mattered as there was no cover-charge and outside of their girlfriends I was the only one there. WE had fun all the same

Shooting people got a whole lot easier after that. I followed this band around to a few more "gigs" and became accustomed to what they did. As my confidence and skills improved I got invited to hang out with other bands. No I was NOT getting paid yet but I was able to get them to pay for my costs. Local bands do NOT make much so getting my costs covered and asked back meant I was doing something right. Eventually I worked my way up to $20 a roll and they covered my costs. At this point I was involved with bands who could get around $500-$1000 per show. Many of these bands had their own photographer friends, some who were not happy to see me but I was never there competitively. What little money I was getting was never earmarked to pay the rent so I never developed THAT attitude. I was there for the best seat in the house and to witness some ferociously talented folks, most who never went on to the national stage but should have.

Because I was not there for the money and because I had developed into a pretty good live band photographer I got to meet a few of the larger venue operators. By promising them copies of my shots, they allowed me access to the larger bands. I never really made much here either, I suppose I could have but by then I really was into it for the fun more than anything else. I did this as a hobby for over a decade and somewhere along the way lost that shy novice photographer.

The Music Makers:
Two Singers:

Above and below: Mike from "Suicidal Tendencies"



Above and below: Gen from "Genitorturers"


Guitarists:

above and below Tom Niemeyer, "Gruntruck"



above: Juli Morgan, "Destiny", below: Lee Tillman, "Radiostar"


Bassists:

above: Jeff Morgan, "Destiny", below Sean-'Mangoat'-Gibson, "Church Of Hate"


above: Dave-'Evil D'-Vincent, "Genitorturers"

Drummers:

above and below Scott Mills "Room XIII"



above and below, name of lady forgotten, "Stinky Punk Bitches"


Racci-'Sketchy'-Shay "Genitorturers"

Head-shots:

Above: 'The Reverend Ben' Peterson, "Church Of Hate", below Gen, "Genitorturers"


perks:

Vivian McPeak, founding father of the first Hempfest. I was his personal photographer for:

I was introduced to Mr. McPeak by the manager of Gruntruck, he allowed me total access to Hempfest 2000. There were 3 stages with bands, tons of booths, lots of Independent Politicians, lots of bigwigs from Cannabis Culture and High Times Magazine, a very angry Artis The Spoonman, (who got escorted out by security for being rude to me), and over 80,000 visitors that weekend.

A few words about some of the above shots: These represent some of the better photographs taken over the span of a decade. For each of these there are hundreds of more mundane shots and an embarrassing number of screw-ups. I learned a trick or two, those multi-flash zoom and/or camera rotations that you see above in the drummers were a great success among many musicians...well except for one band with an epileptic singer. Flash photography is often a no-no among the bigger bands but sometimes allowable if one asks first. I was hoping to use that very multi-flash effect for this latest contest: Fun With Light and would have actually entered one of these if not for the addition to the rules of shooting the entry recently..(and my conscience would not let me cheat either).

So why post these here? Well showing off one's photos is inescapable but I believe that I am not the only member of this forum who is/was a bit shy about shooting people. This is a great method for loosening up when it comes to people photography. Starting out as I did is a GREAT way to get educated about many of the nuances in photography...sort of like being thrown into the shallow end of the pool in order to learn how to swim. Unlike swimming, photography is a never ending education. We here in this forum learn from each other.

Also: There are countless thousands of bands out there, some with incredible talents! Most of these will never get signed and never get known nationally. I met a few "should have beens". Juli Morgan, the guitarist for the local band "Destiny" in one of the above photos is but one such story. I met her and her husband at a small venue on an off night. They were passing out free cassette tapes, some with money stuffed into them as enticement to get folks to come listen. I was absolutely mesmerized by her skills with an Ibenez guitar. I quickly attached myself to this band and helped them cut their first CD, one of my treasure of treasures! This lovely lass was a genius pure and simple. Four years from the moment she first picked up a guitar she was opening for Joe Satrianni. Unlike most solo guitarists who open for him, she did NOT get booed off the stage, she instead got a standing ovation! She and her husband were two of the finest musicians I have ever heard. Sadly, they no longer perform, they became happy parents and you will never get the pleasure I once had of working with them. Perhaps your treasures await you...you will never know till you go out and show a little support for the local music scene.

DU Photo Forum: YOU GUYS ROCK!

above: Nigel, "I Defy"

Thanks.
c

[JeffR]

1. Simply and utterly WOW

Your rejects and "almosts" would be fascinating to see, too. But I love these. Several of them are up there with the best performance shots I've ever seen. I talked to a number of photographers who shot promo pics and performance pics of bands I've been in over the years, and some of them were refreshingly candid about their frustrations and the challenges of their work. It ain't easy, as the saying goes. Strangely in retrospect, I seldom picked up a camera myself when rehearsing or performing - maybe it was all I could do to muster the concentration to play whatever instrument I happened to be playing at the time.

These are tremendously impressive. Thanks so much for posting them. You've made a completely crap day into a pleasure by giving me a chance to see them.

BTW, not having heard a note, I think the Genitorturers are my new favorite band.

[chknltl]

3. Thanks JeffR Careful with Gen though...

She is a certified mortician and her shows are certifiably...um... well...let's just say you better have a VERY open mind about sex! This band is a photographer's feast! They put on one of the best stage shows bar none. They are out of Florida and tour here in the US yearly. Check out their official web-site: http://genitorturers.com/ I have not been there in a while but I am sure you will find some great shots of Gen and her gang there. I say careful about Gen though because this little lass wields more power than a mafia boss. She is easy to talk to and obviously easy on the eyes BUT she is in absolute charge of EVERY detail when it comes to HER band! Her genius is in her abilities to get so much out of those who work with her. She is the Queen of all Dominatrix's!

The biggest frustration about being a band photographer IS money. Gear and film and MORE FILM got pretty expensive early on. You digital folks have an advantage these days. I got a bit of cold shoulder from other band photogs at first but I worked hard at NOT stepping on their toes. I treated their band as THEIR band and included them in my shoots. Sometimes they only held a bounce-board for the promo-shoot other times I got to be friends with them. The free-lancers like me were generally easy to get along with and we shared what we could with each other, batteries film and even on occasion lenses. I eventually began to feel too old to continue doing this...but my passion for the music never faded...nor will it ever.

[JeffR]

5. Very cool website

There's even a quote from an article crediting the Genitorturers with helping keep the Republican National Convention out of Orlando.:D

Your passion for the music is obvious in each photo.:toast:

[ConsAreLiars]

2. Doubleyou! OH! Doubleyou!

You need to recommend earplugs to go with most of those photos. There is no "best" among them, they all seem to show true images of the essence of the artists at work, but the zoom-flash of "Stinky Punk Bitches" should be a wall-sized mural at the entrance to the "Drummers Hall of Fame."

[chknltl]

4. I like that one too.

That one almost got entered into the "Fun With Light" photo contest here BUT I could not bring myself to cheat like that. I had actually planned on going down to the local club with my gear and swapping a few photos with one of the bands while they set up but lazy me never got off his lazy butt and did it...sooo...I'll just cheer the rest of you all on for this contest. Thank you for the WOW
btw: "Stinky Punk Bitches" was an all girl punk band whose bassist was a third grade school teacher....A she devil at the night-clubs though, as were all the members of that band. I never really got to know any of them except that school teacher a little and I have long ago forgotten any of their names.

[flamin lib]

6. How about the slide show? I see no problem with accepting

images from the archives for that.

[chknltl]

7. You are welcome to any of mine...

...from anything I have posted here flamin lib. You already know that I am behind your doing the slide show for these contests. If I knew how to get music from CD's to my computer, (did that), then onto the net, (don't know how to do that), I could offer material from many unsigned bands for your consideration too. I mentioned Juli Morgan and Jeff Morgan, (pictured), from "Destiny". Their cd is strictly instrumental and very much Joe Satriani style. A couple of the slow songs would likely be worth checking out...(of course I am highly biased here and would be in the highest of HOG HEAVENS if somehow their material got used for your slide show).

There have been more than a couple of us here who have posted suitable photos for this contest but chose not to submit them because they were not shot recently enough to comply with the rules of this contest. May I suggest that those be included in this particular slide show? The smoke photos and the one with the child gazing into a lit up crystal ball come to mind...oh and a grasshopper and a spider...there are more than a few...also, don't forget the ones which became runners-up, for instance the "claw" series which shows a lit hand sticking out of the bathroom door.... I am willing to bet you could get an entire slide show ON TOPIC without needing to use any of the actual contest submissions this time. (Oh, and don't forget to ask the photographers for permission first of course)

Good luck flamin lib, I look forward to an even better slide show this time around!

[DS1]

8. I grew up a huge Suicidal Tendencies fan, and my brother has their name

tattooed on his back

I like the first shot, that pose is so typical of him.

[chknltl]

9. It was a great honor meeting Mike

I was shooting for one of those larger venue operators. I was not a fan of the music myself but many of my friends were as was this venue owner. I got to meet with Mike and his band in the green room before the show and had total stage access during the show. The venue was small, only allowing perhaps a thousand fans but that place was soooo packed solid! Suicidal Tendencies fans were treated to a GREAT up close and personal show that evening, one which went on a bit longer than scheduled. Here is one other photo from that show:

[DS1]

10. the Tom Niemeyer photos are also excellent

I can't tell which I like more

[chknltl]

11. Thanks...those two are Tom's fave's as well

Those were taken at Hempfest 2000, back of the stage from up in the speaker scaffoldings. (Best seat in the house imo). Last I heard, Tom was with another great band called "The Accused". He is an exceptional guitarist with fine stage presence, who is much in demand locally.

[Maestro]

12. Great pics!

You captured the intensity of the artists well. Mike from Suicidal Tendencies doesn't seem to be showing his age at all. I remember seeing the first video of them way back in the late 80s I think on Headbanger's Ball on MTV.

The most intense picture for me is the one of Mangoat from Church of Hate.

[chknltl]

14. Thanks Maestro

That band was filled with intense emotion onstage... I have noticed that some musicians get into the music so much that they take on a whole different personality while performing. Mangoat's band was like that. They would likely disapprove of my saying this: They were all just regular guys off stage. They were each married with children, had normal jobs and etc. Onstage they took on the persona of their name: Church Of Hate. They looked and played their parts well and their fans adored them. They became a photographer's dream to shoot because of this, I have a great many shots of these guys filled with a similar emotion.

btw: although some would call this a racist band that name would be unfair because they hated ALL races equally. ("Equal Opportunity Haters" is what they would call themselves.) They were quite comfortable calling a Caucasian a "stinkin racist loser" on the few occasions that racist did show up in the crowd. (I witnessed a brawl between them and a real racist band once...the racist band wound up in jail for their efforts). They did get a bit of joy from picking on religious people though...again it did not matter which religion or lack of because they could easily pick on an atheist too! Basically they hated everybody and did so religiously....This was that persona they took on while performing.

Here is a shot of their drummer, Josh-'Owen Money'-Wortenger just after a gig, he has a wife and three children and is one of the nicest guys one would want to meet...but not onstage! Onstage he was perhaps the most expressive persona I have ever photographed and an incredible drummer as well!

(It is all fake blood of course...They loved getting that stuff everywhere, including all over my gear all too often!)

[Maestro]

17. Thanks for the info.

I completely understand how they are equal opportunities haters. I sympathize with that as at times just people in general really anger me. I've also known a few musicians who are just normal guys and gals but take on a different persona on stage. I listen to extreme heavy metal, metalcore, death and black metal and the like. I would venture to say that the groups I listen to are much more "real" people than the corporate divas like Spears, Lohan, Aguilera, etc... Heck, Marilyn Manson is probably a boring guy in real life. :rofl:

[chknltl]

18. Church Of Hate/MySpace link

http://www.myspace.com/churchofhate
WARNING: this band is absolutely NOT everyone's cup of tea. The video contains some very rude things, things I would NOT want my parents or my kids seeing...well maybe it is ok for my kids, I took them to shows when they were over 18...COH it turned out, were not their cup of tea either.

Maestro, I prefer their more rock oriented stuff, of the three songs offered I like "Mouthful Of Broken Teeth" which was off their first CD. (I had to click it twice to overide "Crumple"). This format does their music injustice, the CDs and shows are FAR better to listen to. I doubt they play "Mouthful..." anymore preferring their more darker material. The video shows a typical gig...less blood being sprayed out into the audience than I remember. For what it is worth, I would often be stage center in that pit getting shots of the singer from the fans viewpoint. The safer bet was not necessarily on stage as some of the fans would bring squirt guns filled with fake blood. (Or then there was the time Ben accidentally clobbered me with his wrist spikes...those suckers HURT!) Those shows were always a workout for me...at 50 it was not getting easier either so this band became the last one I ever worked with.

I was glad just now to see that they are still together and gigging around the Pacific Northwest. They are somewhat unique...well maybe not today but when we first got together in Mangoat's, (now calls himself "Scapegoat"), basement they were unique. We survived the chaos for most of a decade and they are now a well known and sometimes dreaded local touring band. They are not heavy drinkers or druggies...not that they would pass up either but they are quite aware how those little devils can ruin a good thing...the BAND is more important to them and their FAMILIES are of an even higher importance...so the hard drugs don't happen at all and what little pot they get gets thrown onstage by the fans, more often than not it gets thrown back into the audiance.

I was in a sense a member of that family for the better part of a decade. No I do not miss their shows but I do enjoy the CDs I helped them with. Their fans are quite rabbid, none ever bit...too hard that is. Their religious zealot detractors on the other hand were the real worries. The thoughts that a nutcase could someday show up with a knife or gun had occured to me more than once...those types will never understand that this is just music and a philosophy, one which is no threat to anyone except the hypocrits the music speaks about....and those threats are just words put to music, nothing more!

[CC]

13. Great shots and I love that

you wrote about how hard it was for you to do people pics. It has always been hard for me to make myself take them but I finally just forced myself to do it. I know it will help others step out of their shell too.

[chknltl]

15. That was my hope here, thanks for picken up on it.

Prior to diving in to shooting bands I had in a sense imposed the considerable restriction on myself of NOT shooting people BECAUSE of my shyness. This made matters quite difficult for me when I was roped into doing this early on. I had plenty of books and magazines to study on the topic of people photography...lighting posing what to include as foregrounds and backgrounds and etc but nobody addressed the shy novice! I suffered terribly through that first wedding...I knew I was over my head even though I could handle the necessary tech of my gear, I was inept in handling myself!

Eventually after assisting in perhaps a dozen weddings I got to where I could muddle through one solo but I never liked them and refuse to do any more of them. Why? This is key: The subjects all do as I ask down to the smallest detail, my problem is that little voice in the back of my head that still to this day whispers "fraud" to me. Even though my shots generally turn out, even though my subjects respect me as a pro, (I am NOT a working pro), I have never gotten comfortable shooting weddings because of this little voice. The shyness is still there and sometimes needs to be turned off deliberately!

At this point, I have shot literally thousands of musicians, my comfort here comes from experience AND knowing that once they take the stage they are ignoring me and doing their thing. (I instruct them to do just that!) The promo-shoots done on location on the other hand is a whole other ball of wax. When the doubts creep in, I concentrate on the technical aspects, sometimes switching into total manual settings on the gear so I force myself to take control...this slows me down and puts me back in the drivers seat because the concentration distracts that little voice. A few shots like this removes those butterflies and shuts down the shyness. (Those first shots rarely are keepers though...technically no problems but overly "blah" because there is no creativity in them)

These days I think, that shyness I am picking up, is generated more from those I am shooting than from myself. I have my ways of dealing with this as well by engaging my subjects into the process as soon as I detect this. I ask them to assist in the creative side, I get them to tell me what they think would be cool and offer to shoot some of their notions as well. We in effect become a team. This shuts down their shyness and helps keep mine at bay. Try this next time you photograph children: if more than one, have the eldest one suggest a few poses and have that one actually preview the shot through the viewfinder...the shoot will rapidly become a "team" effort and get a whole lot easier and fun. (btw: there is some quick $$ to be made in shooting children should you get the hang of it!) I have used this same exact trick with bands on promo-shoots going so far as to let each member come take a look and add their thoughts.

Perhaps some of our chums here could offer up their methods of dealing with those "butterflys"...for what it is worth, they have never totally left me to this day even after many thousands of rolls of film. My systems work for me, I am an advanced amateur only. I suspect the working pro has "been there done that" for so long that they would NEVER want to have their subjects take part in the creative process...sort of the way I treat the bands when shooting them performing live. I deliberately want them to ignore me and let me do my thing. Competency with your gear is important but only half the battle....practicle experience is the other half. The trick is in getting there...which is what I hoped this thread could also address. (Oh, and show off my photos too of course)

[ConsAreLiars]

16. If you ever have the chance,

see "War Photographer." http://www.war-photographer.com/ about James Nachtwey http://www.jamesnachtwey.com/ He works in a much different (and far more dangerous) context and environment, but he clearly loses all sense of self (and self-consciousness) in the course of recording what he sees. I occasionally get really into the being there recording that mindset, but never under the duress of having to worry about how others might regard my actions or the photos, much less kill me for taking them. His work puts our minor insecurities into proper context.

[chknltl]

19. I spent a little time looking at your second link...

The photographs in the second link by James Nachtwey were often difficult to look at...not because of this mans skills but because of his subject matter. I normally try to diligently respond to each person who takes the time to post their thoughts in my threads but this one took a lot of thought for me due to that link. Yes, absolutely, the misery that man can inflict on others MUST be documented and James Nachtwey does as well as any I have forced myself to look at but "forced" is the key word here.

I confess to this neurosis: I find myself reliving in my imagination the pains I see in photos or the news or even sometimes in mere printed words. Where someone more normal would feel outrage I feel intense sorrow for the victims. When our local news does a 30 second blurb on some kids who mal-treated a dog or a cat, I spend a lot longer than 30 seconds dwelling on the poor innocent victim creature...One who may have come to trust humans for food and shelter and comfort has been betrayed and instead of anger I want to shelter and comfort the victim.

I am abnormally bothered by this kind of photography. Those photos were hard for me to view...sorry if I can't offer up thoughts on this man's talents. I know that there are others out there like this photographer who can somehow detach themselves from the horrors or from the sympathetic pains and empathy but I am just not that guy. For awhile I ran a segment in my signature line which had a slide show a photographer had put together about the horrers faced by Iraqi citizens who parented babies exposed to depleted uranium oxide poisoning...the mutations were too much to imagine! I found out quickly that I was not alone in not wanting to bear witness, folks here would never comment on it and it tore me up to look myself so I took it down and deleted the link long ago. Some have it, I on the other hand do not!

In one way I think I am lucky, I constantly see beauty where others pass by, it is what drove me to photography in the first place. On occasion I can translate what I see to a photographic image...sometimes it is a landscape, sometimes it is the emotion from a musician other times it is an intangible like a child's joy such as what was captured in my shot "Spring was invented for Little Girls" (that was a lucky one but I have deliberately shot others of children and pets for my close friends). The trade off is that I do not do well at all around suffering or anger or abusiveness or intolerances and etc. There are many famous photos which if I were present with a camera I could never have shot because my emotions would be far too much in the way. This then is why I have problems looking at such photography...in a sense, I deliberately shelter myself from stuff like this.

I am pretty selective about what I aim my cameras at...it was not until I opened your link and thought about what to say here, that it occurred to me that I am equally selective in what I look at as well. Sorry about the lengthy introspection...