Asshole free zones

[undergroundpanther]

I was talking to my therapist last night...

And He asked me what could have made a difference in my life.
At first I had no answer. Because my life sucks most of the time.It's pointless to grow up struggle get hurt,"succeed" have the intelligence,and all just to die and everything you ever loved dies.

He seems OK with the idea that things die,that shit happens.He seemed to say yes tragedy hurts,but accepted his powerlessness.And the capricious nature of a senseless cruel reality doesn't bother him.
(personally I think that's sick)
He thinks "life is an adventure" and said he once thought what's the point and that he'd never bring a kid into this hellhole.Something in him changed.
(I wondered inside my thoughts what broke him..
Why does he think it's OK the good MUST be tolerant of the bad? That it's all fine that all good things must die?)

I told him I dunno how to accept this existence this life,I'm not sure I want to. I said every time I try to love or share I get crushed belittled for what I have to offer or I am denied ignored or treated like I don't deserve to feel what I feel,or I "offend" or scare somebody who is rigid and it is determined by some arbitrary authority it's ME that has to control myself,and shut up not the control freak manipulating the system,who nobody wants to think is being an ass.I feel manipulated, jaded and cheated,by life here and because of this I don't trust people,I hate this civilization,I hate this sick sad situation and I want out...I am discounted,hurt,belittled denied,or worse of all hurt for caring,trying,being .And if I cry out I am called weak. This sucks.
I never asked for this shit.I never asked to be born.


We went back to the original question what would have helped me?

I replied when I was growing up I needed a HAVEN

A haven from stupid arbitrary capricious demands from rigid controlling malignant people>freedom from all this achievement pressure to "be somebody",make money,please the boss,suck the ass that shits on me, I needed freedom from all these other people desperate to shape me into what they wanted me to be ..a productive citizen,a "good girl" a a *fill in religion*."normal" ,a daughter,..I needed a place where no one said to me when I was not harming them:" Don't say that","Don't look that way" "don't feel that" "Don't dress that way" Don't think that way" "don't like that,you must like this or else",And most of all "Don't you dare be you or you will be destroyed".

I needed a place where trust was mutual,respect was not one way and expected always as in you give it regardless of how you are treated and others are entitled to it without proving they are respectable.

I wanted a community of unique friends inside a kingdom off strangers competing to win. Win what..a place on top where you can tell everyone who to be,what to feel,shut up,and force control.

A kingdom(top down pecking order) it seems,Can't stand to have a community of equality existing within it.That is why colonists kill of indigenous communities they know that once their servants taste freedom and support of equality they won't come back to the kingdom because they can't BEAR it. The kingdom as a social structure is narcissistic.. everything good must flow to the "leader"or the popular,the powerful or rich.The"big men"..and the leasers must be sacrifices for the kingdoms(kings) sake.Which means all people who are not'kings' learn to conform obey deny your own potential or die outcast.If you dare demand equal respect as a person than you are a threat to the "established order"" violating norms""troublemaker". If you tell what hurts you are a"victim" if you stand up against abuse,or corruption they shoot the messenger. This is sick.


For people with authoritarian,controlling, narcissistic or bully persona's living their lives under the control of a "norm" or tradition" or"strong leader" they say it gives their ego a feeling solidity and THEY like it.

To the more creative,loose,inquiring,exploring,courageous,feeling,thinking alive people it HURTS them to live in the way rigid people do in their system,under their"leaders".

The rigid,"traditional"defensive, back wards,narcissistic authoritarian persona is like a cancer consciousness when it seeks to limit,shut up or control the loose,creative,flexible, anti-authoritarian explorer,other-directed less defensive persona's.
Seekers asking why things are this way eventually begin to see the pain and their hearts are tortured by it,they want to help,share..And they don't want to be hurt for it.It sets up an inner conflict.Between doing what's right and caring and self survival.The empathy for the beauty being crushed tears their spirit apart.
But also non authoritarian people have a non threatened attitude twords other's joy .They can rejoice in the joy they don't"own" without feeling diminished in themselves by the brilliance of others,in fact they get inspired it makes their heart fly higher instead of making them feel inferior and competitive like they have to top others and be bigger fish than they are..

When another person's inspiration threatens to take a narcissistic oriented person somewhere beyond the arbitrary "safety zone".They gotta be better ,bigger and steal attention,.They are fueled by resentments,they react and attack the creative person for being what they are and sharing it..But the price for the rigid narcissistic authoritarian ego's precious illusion that all is safe or reasonable,and they are on top of the world to be complete they actually wound,destroy the good,the kindhearted,those who do,they steal,pillage,co-opt,they silence the sensitive,deep thinkers,rebels,explorers and creative.Narcissists and bullies don't want to get past their "kingdom"mind for they LIKE it,it is THEIR kind of"community" where THEY feel at home.
Problem with bullies is they want the whole world as their kingdom.They don't share,they don't give unless they get more,Authoritarians are NOT the majority,They effect communities like cancer that way.They want to take it all they can so they can grow and be bigger and live forever on top in control of everything even if it kills the Earth.


The bullies control "protean" or other directed people.The bullies hold them down with poverty shame ,in mental cages and traumas that takes a lifetime of therapy to undo.Whether bullies do it deliberately or unconsciously ,from fear or out of'convienence' it doesn't matter because it hurts the spirit itself.Dominator's seek out and fuck with people who are not like themselves,because they know explorers and givers can break their delusions of entitlement inside them,and take away the fear and enchantments they use to dupe entire cultures ,expose the lies to others that they build their pedestals to dominate everyone upon..

When abused people speak our minds fearlessly to power we remind them they are not gods,they have no excuses, they are assholes,they are vulnerable and as powerless against the forces that are out of everyones control as anyone else is..We tear their pedestals down and establish equality and human rights.

Sadly this dynamic happens everywhere people relate to each other on this earth.In couples groups and institutions,clubs and governments...

My therapist asked what would an Asshole free zone be like?

I said it would sorta be going back in time,back to being wild.
Back to being equal human beings respecting of all the other life.
It would require the force able creation of an asshole free zone.A boundary on ever person's conduct and character.It would require integrity and participation.You could not by stand,because to have a place that excludes kings from the community you must be intolerant of abuses corruption and power seeking.Differences that are not toxic controlling or abusive that DO NOT MATTER ,Differences that do not abuse trust or set up authority structures that stifle are not threats to a community of equals.

To create this kind of space inside a Kingdom like our culture is you must remain ever vigilant against the tyrant mind that resides in every human heart and reject socialization with narcissistic people,bullies sociopaths,and authoritarian personalities.All breakers of trust must not be allowed to get away with it,privacy must not be abused..You gotta do this exclusion of bad character in a reasonable way ,to protect the freedom of all in the community who seek freedom to be,peace and equality in right relationship in that community.

Maybe we can't see this mind of cancer eating us,as we serve it,it's making us crazy and suicidal because we are not living as we wanted,we have potentials stolen from us and redirected in the name of conformity and pleasing authority..we get tamed, by being born into a "kingdom" of haves and have nots,all our lives graded sorted separated,hierarchical by default,where it's conform or die,obey or else,shut up ,do your work,It's a jungle out there and you are on your own,Don't ask questions,don't offend the kings and bullies,Keep your nose to the grindstone,What can you do they are the powers that be,better to tell a lie than face the music,and do as you are told,don't feel that,Happiness is in slavery! Work sets you free!Don't think that way,don't BE you or you'll get hurt!! So to please the parents,the teacher ,the whole pervasive kingdom system posing as sanity itself we grow up stifled,dreaming,doing what we are told until we get enough money to retire,we live harnessed, controlled and broken fighting against each other to be something we are not beginning at a very early age. And it HURTS.Everyday it HURTS to remember what was taken,co-opted and denied us so we could "make it","fit in" and avoid being ridiculed,scapegoated,abused,out-casted from the illusory security of this kingdom ..When all the communities of equals are gone,the empire is all that is left,and for some of us it HURTS to be alive in a kingdom..

Everyday,we resist until we are crushed enough to be able to accept this condition.We stop hoping.Caring,giving,we close up.It takes 13 years of school to break a child's spirit,so he will work the rest of his days..The broken and resigned are the sane"functioning" ones.
And when some people break out of this prison this forced way of living imposes upon our minds and potentials ,some are so afraid of freedom and the consequences of daring to take it,the integrity required,the bearing of the soul with courage, they freak out looking at what looks like an alien landscape.They project,misunderstand their kingdom created defenses try to confuse them and blind them and distort what they see or hear..

They feel threatened and unstable seeing the evil nature of a kingdom from within it.Their mind can't stand it.They are complicit. Guilty and ashamed and they feel trapped to realize there is nowhere else to go and live.And they suffer,go nuts,make up delusions,get suicidal.Once you see the truth of what a kingdom does to a human spirit,you cannot unsee it again..The contrast of it all compared to their perceptions in their safe imposed fence, is unbearable..some self destruct.I think this happens because there is not any nurturing community of equals there to catch the explorer with a safety net as he falls. Our sense of TRUST on a human to human foundation has been violated by those bullies who seek to rule us,blind us,limit us, and use us for their own purposes..

There is no place for me to be me on this on Earth I think.For when a community of sharers and explorer's is set up,It's like a beacon to dominator's,exploiters narcissists.Soon some person makes waves and hurts someone ,a bully makes everyone scared to say what he is,an authoritarian seeks popularity or sets up an organizational structure so he can tell everyone to do it his way or else.

I Told my therapist if I was to say what would help me as a teen,I said I needed to go live in an asshole free zone.I said I needed a haven of equals,taking care of each other..Intent on making itself safe from bullies and control freaks of every kind who would tell them not to be.I still need a community to participate in with open minded fellow explorers who weren't so scared of exploring,or where other people go,who wouldn't hate me for being me,wouldn't try to top me,or shun me for what I found looking into the unknown,and would not stop me from sharing what treasures I found in my exploring with everyone who wanted some,and enjoying/exploring what treasures others has to share from their explorations..and being inspired by them..so we all can see more beauty,create more coolness,and go deeper into unknowns..and find out what we are...really.

I think we who see and suffer need to make a community in the kingdom and guard it vigilantly to keep it free.. A haven where we can LIVE,SHARE,and be FREE to BE without other people getting in who bring with them corruption, who force being "productive" or want to make us be subjected to arbitrary rules,"obedience" forced " choices" between sacrificing keeping your own inner locus of control intact,saving your integrity,obeying your conscience,having your own voice,pursuing YOUR happiness
or selling it all out for money,food on the table,protecting our kids,stress relief ,a job,or survival itself.
A place where everyone agrees it is to be free of conformity,authoritarianism,coercion,stifling,scapegoating,
intimidation,inequality,dehumanization,abuse or domination..and it equally applies to all ands all participate to protect it and maintain it as a place of peace beauty and love because they love their haven and rejected the values and entitlement mentality of "the kingdom".

[jdots]

1. wow you perceived my dream

The thing that depresses me most lately is that I can't get into my ass hole free zone myself so i hide in painting or building speakers. I come on this site looking for a connection to humanity or reality .You understand utopia in a world of dying souls.

[DemExpat]

2. Creating an asshole -free zone......

UGP, I am just now reading a book which touches on many points you make here in your post - much of what I recognize and have felt in my life.

It sounds like a session I had with my therapist years ago!

This book might be interesting and helpful to you too...I especially like Chapter 6 on breaking old agreements.



http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1878424319/ref=sib_dp_ln/102-9863297-4628142#reader-link
"The Four agreements" by Don Miguel Ruiz.

Check it out...

:hug:

DemEx

[smirkymonkey]

3. Thank you so much for writing that - It's exactly how I feel

conform or die, yet my spirit is being crushed daily and my soul is dying by having to live in this sick, dysfunctional society.

"I told him I dunno how to accept this existence this life,I'm not sure I want to. I said every time I try to love or share I get crushed belittled for what I have to offer or I am denied ignored or treated like I don't deserve to feel what I feel,or I "offend" or scare somebody who is rigid and it is determined by some arbitrary authority it's ME that has to control myself,and shut up not the control freak manipulating the system,who nobody wants to think is being an ass.I feel manipulated, jaded and cheated,by life here and because of this I don't trust people,I hate this civilization,I hate this sick sad situation and I want out...I am discounted,hurt,belittled denied,or worse of all hurt for caring,trying,being .And if I cry out I am called weak. This sucks.
I never asked for this shit.I never asked to be born."

I especially relate to this - how we are supposed to give ourselves over to the dark side, no questions asked. I have never felt more suicidal in my life than I do right now because I feel that I have no HAVEN from this mindset (unless I were to completely shut myself off from the rest of the world, which I would do if I could afford it.) However, sensitive souls like us need connection and ultimately the isolation would destroy us as well.

What is the answer? Where do we turn for shelter? Or do we just shut up, put up, dope up and join the living dead until we are mercifully relieved of this existence?

[undergroundpanther]

4. The thing that irks

The sad thing about being online, when I meet sensitive with it people like you,and others, is realizing the net is worlwide,It isn't all down the street.I love the net because I realize there are others hating this way of life we are forced into as much as I hate it.Who see the same things. And seek escape from the same things too.
But the real problem is the net creates this illusion of closeness and community while in reality when we go offline we are again still lone individuals scattered across the globe.Talking via type on computers in individual houses,alone for the most part..isn't the same thing as being there.
I wish you were nearby in Maryland, or I was near where you are..So we could hook up and become freinds.
But more likely than not we are states away from each other,or any other people who feel as we do. And this SUCKS.

I fantasize about if I got a shitload of money..Like won it in the lotto..I'd buy a big chunk of forest land with it's own water source,I'd build as many houses that I could afford that are self suffcient,green freindly and arrange them in concentric circles with privacy hedges and stuff so we could be close yet have space when we need it too..I'd build a community club house in the middle,that's where the coffee house would be,the community art rooms,and all the shared stuff.

After I got it done,I would go online,look around and seek out the sensitive, the gentle,creative,outcasted and good hearted non-bully people and I'd invite them to come visit this new haven.I'd do a trial period for a long enough time to see if we are all compatible,if we all are comfortable enough with each other personality wise together, enough time to find out if any person wanting to live there is of decent character and time for them to figure out if they like the people,like the place,and want to stay..or go.

I'd build it all as self sustaining as possible so we wouldn't owe shitloads of money for heat food sewer and so on..I would do it this way so I would only have to cover for repairs and land tax(don't want it stolen by the state) and basic stuff like that so the rents I'd charge(if any) would be very low(I think poor people need a chance to escape too).(It probably would take all the mega millions winnings to buy the land start the gardens,secure the water supply,and build the places ) It would regettably be by nessecity kinda agrarian and drug free(except for presecibed drugs)(drugs is one reason alot of alternative communities get hassled by the state and I don't want to deal with cops and the interpersonal sometimes violent conflicts drugs and booze addiction cause.) We would only have minimal guns or weapons for hunting(some people do eat meat) or fighting off any animals that attack us(it would be kinda wilderness because that is cheaper land and it is less tied into systems(remember waco was stockpiling weapons,don't want to be accused of that)( I would have animals galore there and a no-kill cat shelter too)

This place would be all ours and when we detect an asshole or a manipulator or abuser or some such trust breaker type in our midst we could confront them and if they didn't prove themselves decent kick them out pronto.
As long as you do your part in the upkeep,and share the knowlege/skills you have with others and don't act like a jerk,I don't care what you do with your life or what identity you have..You are free to be whomever you are and nobody else has a say in it if you aren't hurting,cocercing or harassing anyone..
I'd tell someone who was a bully to leave the Haven,without any regrets because they have the rest of the world for building thier kingdom..

This is what I would do with the Mega millions lotto prize money if I ever won it. Anything left over I'd buy a few small things I have always wanted.

But what do I do now? With what I got now? Not much.
I don't know what to do about all this. It hurts.
And I sympathize with you and the pain of this situation alot.

[jdots]

5. again this uncanny connection

you have the same feelings about the net as I do. I am 56 so the net was a challenge toward my need for eye contact and reading body language.The safety some find in knowing they are strangers in cyber space hurts me .

[DemExpat]

6. Perhaps because I have always felt like a loner,

......But the real problem is the net creates this illusion of closeness and community while in reality when we go offline we are again still lone individuals scattered across the globe.Talking via type on computers in individual houses,alone for the most part..isn't the same thing as being there........


The real differences you mention in Net communication and real-life seems less to me somehow.

I can feel heart-to-heart contact here on the Web as well as I can in real life, and after a visit with family and friends I always feel a return to "isolation" or aloneness.
During rocky years with my partner I have often felt most alone when he was lying in bed next to me....:-(
I figure that I was born alone, and will have to die on my own as well.

I perceive the difference in real and Net contact less intensely as you do, perhaps, and see it as an expanded and additional form of communication, not a substitute for the real in person contact.

Sometimes I fantasize that this is preparing humans for other forms of distant, instant communication, even more generalized ESP. :-)

DemEx

[smirkymonkey]

7. I live in NYC which has it's fair share of assholes and power-

mongers, but there are also a lot of great people here too that feel as we do and Liberals are DOMINANT here, which makes it still seem like a haven to me.

In fact, other than a utopian community, sometimes I wonder if I could live anywhere else in the US. Everytime I leave the city to visit relatives or friends I am shocked by how much this country has changed and how ignorant and hateful people have become.

I also have the same "MegaMillions" fantasies that you do! Did you see the movie, "The Village"? It wasn't a great movie, but the concept was interesting. I don't want to spoil it for anyone who hasn't seen it, but it got me thinking.

However, I sometimes wonder if even a progressive utopian community would eventually deteriorate due to a power vaccuum. Human nature, being what it is, doesn't seem able to let harmony & cooperation exist for very long without having to take advantage of the weak spots. I don't know what the answer is - just musing. :)

[Raksha]

16. undergroundpanther, you just described MY dream, right here:

I fantasize about if I got a shitload of money..Like won it in the lotto..I'd buy a big chunk of forest land with it's own water source,I'd build as many houses that I could afford that are self suffcient,green freindly and arrange them in concentric circles with privacy hedges and stuff so we could be close yet have space when we need it too..I'd build a community club house in the middle,that's where the coffee house would be,the community art rooms,and all the shared stuff.

After I got it done,I would go online,look around and seek out the sensitive, the gentle,creative,outcasted and good hearted non-bully people and I'd invite them to come visit this new haven.I'd do a trial period for a long enough time to see if we are all compatible,if we all are comfortable enough with each other personality wise together, enough time to find out if any person wanting to live there is of decent character and time for them to figure out if they like the people,like the place,and want to stay..or go.

The dream of a creative, accepting, non-authoritarian community is one I've had all my life. I have come to realize quite recently that it's the deepest and most permanent dream I've ever had. The reason I say "quite recently" is because for the first time in my life I spent a week in an asshole-free zone, namely a Pagan retreat sponsored by a group that has resisted authoritarianism from its inception, even to the point of rejecting the term "High Priestess," and the tendency as well as the terminology of the hierarchical systems. The focus of the leadership (actually the senior members) is to develop new leadership among the younger generation. They also don't see gender polarities as absolutes and are totally accepting of GLBT folks, who made up a significant number of the 130 campers who attended.

I'm a straight middle-aged female myself, but I can't even begin to tell you how healing it was to spend a week in a truly loving, accepting, non-judgmental environment.

I was sitting at the "smoking table" with the rest of my persecuted minority (even among liberals, even among New Agers and Pagans!) and I started to repeat something I've told people more than once: "I've hated myself my entire life. I can't imagine what it would feel like to NOT hate myself." This was towards the end of the week. As I was saying it, at the very moment I said it, I suddenly realized it was no longer true, even if it was true in the past. Right then, right there, I DID know what it felt like to not hate myself!

I call that a miracle. Is there anyone in his/her right mind who wouldn't want to make that kind of nurturing, asshole-free environment a permanent living situation or better yet...a permanent CULTURE?

[marions ghost]

8. you describe these oppressive times

and the narcissistic nature of authoritarian control very well:

(From your original post)
"A kingdom(top down pecking order) it seems, can't stand to have a community of equality existing within it.That is why colonists kill off indigenous communities they know that once their servants taste freedom and support of equality they won't come back to the kingdom because they can't BEAR it. The kingdom as a social structure is narcissistic.. everything good must flow to the "leader"or the popular,the powerful or rich.The"big men"..and the leaders must be sacrifices for the kingdoms(kings) sake.Which means all people who are not'kings' learn to conform obey deny your own potential or die outcast.If you dare demand equal respect as a person than you are a threat to the "established order"" violating norms""troublemaker". If you tell what hurts you are a"victim" if you stand up against abuse,or corruption they shoot the messenger. This is sick."

-----------
I couldn't agree more. Don't worry you are certainly not alone in your views. I have also been victimized directly by narcissists, actually more than once, in overwhelming situations. And it has happened to others that I know. These malignant narcissists will trample others, exploit and abuse without a moment of conscience. And they are often seen as heroes and upstanding citizens--that's how clever they are at workin it. And so now those personal experiences as victims are magnified by what we see occurring in our country at the highest levels of business and government during the current regime.

It helped me when I could finally realize this kind of abuse, name it, detect it a mile away, and reject it. I studied up on it and I can see you have too. One thing good about the larger evil being played out in our country--we are seeing it, we ARE naming it. I do not believe that we have to accept it. Yes, there are many who are taken in, but there are also many who see it and are either biding their time in hopes of better times, or don't know how to fight it. In my case it's hard to get over the natural resistance to fighting when all you want is peace. But that is not the nature of these times. Right now I think we who feel the larger implications of the loss of many things we call "freedom" must join hands even if only in cyberspace. I keep thinking of skydivers linking up while falling. We have to keep saying the truth until others hear it. The "values" of our society are seriously sick. Although Americans will put up with damn near anything...there are some signs of an awakening...the wind is up

Writing and expressing is obviously your way, ugp. Deal with this despair and let your thoughts out there. Try not to direct it inward. Your may have more to give others than you might think in your writing. Personally I don't think of physical places to escape to so much as I create mental escapes. I do not believe there is anyplace to go or hide. We are going to have to come together and redefine what it means to be an American, and maybe even what it means to be human while we're at it. Being able to speak the truth of what's going on now is a contribution. And I think you're dealing with the Big Lie more effectively than a lot of people who are trying to bury it. :)

[undergroundpanther]

9. Thanks.

Sometimes tho...In my dreams I wish I could just invent something to either force a change in the bullies ,authoritarians and narcissists,make into something not malignant or destructive to other people that are not like them ..or just kill them (and nobody else) all off. Sometimes a person can make themselves too toxic to exist around.
And if you can't get away,physically or mentally you begin to run out of options.
Sometimes I think fascism happens in countries where domination is swallowed by the populace in redefined terms ,when it looks distant,but in fact it's too near..It's when a threshold of people realize there is nowhere left to run to get away from the gruesome authoritarian spell unfolding in a spectacle before them..They revolt and finally toss out the'king'ruining their lives..

[Kashka-Kat]

10. good discussion -- i ve always appreciated "cultural context"

when considering "disorder" or "dysfunctionality"......

I remember very clearly starting kindergarten and how it just boggled my mind to learn of the heirarchies and the sucking up games. There was one certain cute smiley girl who got all the positive attention from teachers and adulation from other girls, with us plain janes cast in the role of ladies in waiting sucking up to the "cute" girls. I wanted no part of it. Which meant, as I eventually found out, that there was no place for me at all. Not until I left home and found other artists/free thinkers.

One truly life changing experience for me was to get training in "non violent communication" thru the American Society of Friends (quakers). Was so illuminating to finally see that I didn't HAVE to buy into that win-lose, "dominate or be dominated" mentality... other ways of engaging w/ people...

[DemExpat]

11. Too bad Dr. Thomas Gordon's "Effectiveness Training" ideas

of the 1980s didn't catch on and sweep the nation - using the No-Lose method where in interactions with people no one loses out - everybody wins by those in positions of authority (parents, teachers, bosses) using honesty and respect in dealings with others.
I read his Parent Effectivenss Training books and took a little parenting course in this when my kids were little.

DemEx

[Gregorian]

12. I feel like adding a little

This is my first post here. I was feeling depressed.

I'm not sure if what I have to say will be helpful, selfish, or hurtful in some way. I only want to share my experiences.

Something that has helped me a lot, recently, is reading the bible. I can see that people have never gotten along. I found it helpful because I thought assholes were fairly new to the world. No, they killed Jesus because he brought a dead man back to life on the wrong day of the week. He performed a miracle on the sabbath. (I hope this doesn't keep you from reading the rest of my post, as I'm not a religious freak.)

I'm going on 50. I'm single. I haven't had a date since my girlfriend and I decided to go different directions. That was a long long time ago. Nearly twenty years. I'm alone. But not lonely. I probably am lonely, but I don't really feel lonely.

I was the smallest kid in the school district. 90 pounds at 18 years old. People took advantage of me.

I was energetic, nonaggressive, friendly, creative.

I saw a world that was on it's way toward harmony.

Then things changed. More cars. More concrete. More houses. I was disturbed. (Look at my sig line.)

I have your dream, and it didn't help. I decided that instead of listening to what people said I should do, I would do what I wanted to do. So I quit my job, and bought a piece of property. I wanted to get away from the noise, and crowds. Suddenly I was onto something that netted me a lot of money. And I bought another place. And another. Now I have a beautiful place to live, and I don't need to work. BUT......

But the world, that same world I left, is still there. George Bush is still there. And lately, something new has happened. I lived near San Francisco all of my life. I took something for granted until I moved to my present location. I had lived amongst Democrats all of my life. I just thought they were what normal people were. Now I live amongst Bush-lovers. People who toss beer cans from their vehicles. Ignorant slob people. I have never been so shocked in my life. And now I live in a place where culture is a fifteen hour drive away. But that's not all. The one thing I really want to say is that it's not just the arrogant bullies. It's the so-called normal people who've made this world a mess. My biggest problem is overpopulation. The noise, the loss of freedom (which you wouldn't notice unless you were old enough to know what it WAS like.) The cars. There is a list of stuff that has changed due to the population of people living on this planet, that is so long, I can't even begin to list it. And most of it is below most people's radar. But I notice it. But I'm "too sensitive". That's what people say. Bullshit. Are the melting icecaps too sensitive? Just wait. It's the normal people who aren't thinking of their actions who have me really depressed. Not just the aggressive ones. And so I say, we never got along. And we never will. I'm not even sure we could. I like to think we could. But perhaps something I do affects someone else. It does. It can't help but. And with more people, it is even more certain to have it's affect on someone else. And having a million dollars and a place to live won't make it better. We are all part of the same entity. We are one. We cannot escape from one another. And that's where the dilemma and pain reside.

This never hit home more than when I saw a show on Madagascar last night. I've been thinking about how close I am to being able to buy my ideal property. A big ranch overlooking the ocean. And then I saw those people in Madagascar, smiling. Laughing. Happy. Truely happy. Without anything but a home made guitar. Dancing in the dirt. I'm dreaming if I think that the next property is going to make me happier. And here is why it won't- because we live in a sick society (just like you said). We live in a society that values things, not people. I have longed all of my life for the friendship society. The hippies came, and the hippies went. I thought it had changed. But it went right back to cars, and cameras, and tv commercials. It's worse now than it ever was. We live in a society of soul starvation. It's starving me. I'm dying.

[Digit]

13. Hmmm, this sounds familiar

I keep running into these people myself myself, so I feel your pain.
You said it so well, and from the heart. I welcomed your directness, too.
Never have been a girly girl and I tend to question things. Never was one to try to compete either. Instead, I like to take the underdog and try to help them. My best "rescue" was a fellow Realtor who was being used by agents to hold their open houses and then made him turn in the names to THEM! I consider him one of my best friends and I am happy to report that he made $85,000 last year!
Anyway, I don't conform, refuse to conform, and even in my elementary report cards, it said so.
I am from Arlington, Va originally...where free thinkers are everywhere. Now, I am stuck in the south where there is no wiggle room. I am withering, but your post struck a chord.
I see the free thinkers online as a glass half full instead of half empty. Yes, it would be nice if we could be closer, but it is far better than having nobody around.

Posts like yours are the reason I am on here. Kindred spirits. Hang in there, there are many like minded individuals on here.

Undergroundpanther: I tried to buy a property in Hagerstown, MD, but the person came back and said full price and as is. I walked.
Let me know when you open your community. ;-)

[Kire]

14. come with me to Nigeria

or India, or Columbia

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3956974

[smirkymonkey]

15. Just re-read this post and I am amazed at how much

it resonates. Kick! :kick:

[DemExpat]

17. Yep, know what you mean smirkymonkey....

I had very similar conversations with my therapist on being unable to accept the shit of life.

DemEx

[sam sarrha]

18. In Buddhism there is a Sanskrit word.. "Samsara"... >>Link>>

http://www.esolibris.com/articles/buddhism/samsara.php
"snip...." Many people think of it as the Buddhist name for the place where we currently live -- the place we leave when we go to nibbana. But in the early Buddhist texts, it's the answer, not to the question, "Where are we?" but to the question, "What are we doing?" Instead of a place, it's a process: the tendency to keep creating worlds and then moving into them. As one world falls apart, you create another one and go there. At the same time, you bump into other people who are creating their own worlds, too.

The play and creativity in the process can sometimes be enjoyable. In fact, it would be perfectly innocuous if it didn't entail so much suffering. The worlds we create keep caving in and killing us. Moving into a new world requires effort: not only the pains and risks of taking birth, but also the hard knocks -- mental and physical -- that come from going through childhood into adulthood, over and over again. The Buddha once asked his monks, "Which do you think is greater: the water in the oceans or the tears you've shed while wandering on?" His answer: the tears. Think of that the next time you gaze at the ocean or play in its waves...snip"

:cry: :pals: :grouphug: