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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 12:30 AM
Original message
Joseph Stack
Edited on Fri Feb-19-10 12:47 AM by Number23
I know I should be surprised. I know it.

But after seeing compassion and pleas for sympathy from more than one person here for a man who was wealthy enough to own a plane; dishonest enough to not pay his taxes and deranged enough to set his house on fire endangering the lives of countless people and then fly his plane into a building in an attempt to kill many others, I am just blown away.

According to so many, this man is worthy of compassion and understanding. The teabaggers are worthy of compassion and understanding. The white "liberals" who have been screaming that the only reason Obama won was because of "white liberal guilt" and have been going on about primarying him since 8 minutes BEFORE he was sworn into office are worthy of compassion and understanding.

But you know the only person who's not worthy of these emotions? The man sitting in the White House working his butt off. Nope, apparently the only thing he is worthy of is piles of scorn and derision, blatant lies and half-truths, and accusations that "all he does is talk," no matter how unwarranted or untrue these accusations may be. The man has done much and still has MOUNTAINS to do, but the constant "all he does is talk purrrty" theme around here from a sizeable number of idiots is so blatantly dishonest and unjust it makes me want to scream.

Found these clips from Jim Cornette, the wrestling manager who went OFF on Obama's detractors six (edit: make that EIGHT) months ago. His words hold more truth today than they did in August and they were damn true then. And anyone who thinks that his comments are only applicable to the right wing hasn't been paying attention.



I can't take the hypocrisy, the racism, the double standards, the stupidity and the dishonesty here surrounding our President for much longer. I'm about sick of all of this, to be perfectly honest.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. Forgot to add:
I'm sure that it purely a coincidence of the highest order that many of the same people here offering "understanding" to Mr. Stack are also some of the main ones who couldn't find one decent thing to say about Obama if you held their kids for ransom. Yep, a coincidence I'm sure...
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
2. joe stack was a selfish prick even if you don't
know his history..all you have to do is look at the way he chose to die. Taking innocent people with him, if he could, by crashing his plane into an occupied building..oh, and setting his house on fire before he left home to do it.

Listening to Jim Cornette go off on the idiots is always good for the soul.

Don't let it get you down, 23..they're not worth it. This too shall pass and we will come out victorious.

You make a good point about the lack of compassion from some at what President Obama and his Team have inherited and have accomplished in spite of everything(and we're talkin' 8 years of pillaging and the most insipid, craven enemies imaginable).
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Jim Cornette is the man.
:fistbump:
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Brewman_Jax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
3. I can appreciate your pain
they're having trouble using the "T" word (terrorist) in regards to Stack. The double standard is glaring! :(
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-19-10 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Yep. But if that had been an Arab guy named Mustafa
or even a black guy named Earl, the "terrorist" label would have been dropped faster than that plane dropped out of the damn sky.

I've seen and lived with racism my entire life, but sometimes I just get so damn SICK of seeing it, especially when it's right in front of my face and the people perpetuating it are doing every elaborate tap dance they can think of to downplay it.
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-20-10 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Very true. And unlike Mr Stack; he would have no defenders on the internet "left"
these whiny fuckers make me sick.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-20-10 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I almost wish I had never become involved in this web site
or had seen the ravings of the liberal "blogosphere" over the past year.

I was happy enough having the semi-concrete idea that Dems could be every bit as racist as Repubs, every bit as insular, every bit as divorced from reality. Seeing what I've seen this past year has not only turned a semi-concrete feeling into a rock solid belief, it has angered and disgusted me so much that I've actually made some personal changes in my life/career. Sometimes knowledge is not necessarily bliss but it's definitely empowering.

And unlike Mr Stack; he would have no defenders on the internet "left"

Damn right. Glad to see you posting again, Uzy.
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-21-10 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Thanks 23
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SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-22-10 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
9. Joseph Stack is a vile, murdering, tax-dodging terrorist
He is not a hero and will never be considered one by thinking people.

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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 02:45 AM
Response to Original message
10. "Meet The Real Victim Of Last Week's Terror Attack"
"Last week, Joseph Stack set his house on fire, drove to the airport, jumped in his plane and flew it into an IRS building in Austin, Texas. This deliberate, cowardly act of domestic terrorism resulted in injuring thirteen IRS workers and left one man dead -- a veteran of the Vietnam War"

http://crooksandliars.com/logan-murphy/meet-real-victim-last-weeks-terror-at

Vernon Hunter's son, Ken speaks out. His composure is nothing short of amazing. I would have been calling Joseph Stack and his daughter everything in the book but a child of God:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/35521735#35521735
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TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
11. Racism is a part
but much of comes down to pure jealousy and I have to say people from Senators all the way down the food chain seem to have forgotten the difference between opposition and government.

The last year was just a big circular firing squad amongst Democrats. The real enemy is the Republican Party who have done so so much damage not just to the US, but to Countries around the World. Yet far too many want teh problems fixed yesterday, not just 8 years worth of problems, 30 years worth.

I am proud to be a strong supporter of Barack Obama. I think he is a great President and if the people in Congress had remembered why they were there (and there is still time - despite the doom and gloom you see in the main forums) there would be no Republican renaissance.

Of course to the people in the main forum, every failed vote in Congress is the fault of the President. Never an explanation about how Saints Dennis or Hillary would have handled people like Nelson any different.

The circular firing squad started weeks before the inauguration, not minutes. When as President Elect, Barack Obama managed to secure Gene Robinson and Rick Warren to provide inauguration prayers, it was attacked. Yes Warren is a bigot. So are most in his church. The then PE Obama had however managed to remove him and therefore some of HIS FOLLOWERS from the grip of Republicans. A whole demographic previously denied to the Democratic Party.

If his followers had then read some of the so called liberal blogs, that would not have continued for long.

From the inauguration on, everything was not enough or too little too late.

I do not care what the mythical Saints Dennis or Hilary would have done. They are creatures of the wild imagination of their supporters and whose real and actual personas would be horrified to know about what is said in their name.

There is a real man in the White House now. Those who claim to be supporters of the Democratic Party should get behind him or they will again get a taste of opposition.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-23-10 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Racism is a HUGE part
But not the cross-burning, epithet-hurling, KKK-type that far too many white people have deluded themselves into thinking is the only (or most significant) form of racism.

It's the racism of double standards. That something that is okay or completely unnoticeable for a white person to do suddenly becomes the Sign of the Beast when done by a person with melanin. To be honest, this form of racism is far more insidious and far more destructive to people of color than the first type. It's really easy to scream "racist!" at someone who is wearing a swastika and screaming about the evils of immigration.

It is far, far more difficult to ascribe that term to someone who openly admits that they would reject a suitor because of their skin color ("it's just a preference!" people will scream) or who doesn't hire someone of a different race because they're afraid they "won't fit in well" ("I was doing it for their benefit!" they'll protest), or who decides that people of a certain ethnic group should all think/act one way, or someone who is automatically intimidated, distrustful, nervous etc. around someone because of their skin color. The fact that so much racism of this type is unconsciously done also makes it so difficult to pinpoint.

The idea that this man could take a plane and crash it into a federal building and that so many on this site and even in Congress beg for "understanding" for his "situation" makes me want to vomit. The Racism of Double Standards is alive, well and kicking in the Joseph Stack case. And I honestly believe that the Racism of Double Standards is alive, well and kicking towards our President as well, because as you noted, he seems to be catching hell for things that pre-date his taking office while the ACTUAL PEOPLE who put certain procedures in place are lauded around here. Frenchiecat has a great list of laws that were passed by previous administrations that people are suddenly all too happy to drop at Obama's feet while the people who were directly responsible for passing these laws are still fawned over. It's really quite astounding.
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TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I agree that racism plays a very large part and was not diminishing it.
I would also agree that racism is not easy to call out.

I see racists as very different to systematic instutionalised racism. The cross burners, the tea baggers and many of their followers are often victims of very similar prejudices. Which is why they need to find someone to blame. The only help that a lot of these people get from the Government is hindrance.

Poor schools with a poverty of expectation.
Poor medical treatment.
Bad and or ineffective policing.
Unresponsive bureaucratic local government.

As candidate, this comment drew me to Barack Obama

You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.


Sorry if I repeat much from a previous comment, but your post made me think about it again. When Barack Obama made the "bitter" comment, for the first time a main stream politician got it. A Presidential candidate no less. Badly worded or not, the reaction of a certain other candidate who misquoted it and used the misquote for political advantage, at the expense of the very poorest of the Democratic base proved why she was not the person to be President.

Racism did not end on January 20th. I have seen so called Liberal blogs and reporters claim this to be the post racial Presidency. It is not. In just the same way the election of Clinton would not have ended sexism. No matter what the silly PUMAs claim.

The fundamental system of racism has not changed no matter where you look. France, Britain, the US. All that has changed is that the real power behind racism has been reigned in and controlled by Institutions. I would argue it is more powerful now as a result because you can highlight hate groups, hate sites, idiot racists, but you can not fight corporate racism.

A racist teacher may not express their hate, but they can start with a low expectation of you, so that if you are failing, it is not because something may be wrong, it is because well you were not going to achieve anyway. Thus continuing a racist meme.

January 20th did not make racists in the police dissolve into a steaming pile of dogshit.

The system can still red-line you, it is now just credit scoring, which when you start out is affected solely by the area you live. So your ability to rent or buy somewhere else is affected. You will not see signs that say no Blacks, Irish Jews or dogs, that existed in 1960s England, but the effect is the same. You are red-lined but it no longer called that and even better, it is International and largely unaffected by the laws of any one Nation. Too big to fail, but no individual is safe from being failed by the time they turn 18.

The Anti-Nazi League successfully defeated P*ki bashing in the 80's. Yet, years later, in the name of 9/11 and the War on Terror, racism against people from the Middle East and Pakistan is now pretty much legitimised. Fox News does everything to demonise the Islamic religion. How much is said about the downright disgraceful proposal of Uganda? Not much - because it is Christian. This confirms your point about Stack. Imagine the reaction if this murderous maniac had been an Asian or African muslim?

Institutionalised racism is rarely considered and never blamed. The poor still are. When the housing bubble burst many blamed the poor for the misfortune of being poor and gettiing kicked out to tent city. Why? Because banks were forced to end much of he blatant discrimination against black people. So poor blacks were being blamed for the housing bubble and few people screamed at the stupidity of that. It sickens me that I first started reading this shit here on DU.

The initial sifting of job applications, names can be picked out, or the area you live can in can rule you out. Who picks up the discrimination?

Recreational drug laws that protect the two of the worst drugs, after all there is nothing wrong with big tobacco and the drinks industry, but will put people away in the real still legal form of slavery that is the prison system. In many States you then lose your right to vote and your chance of ever getting a decent job are severely curtailed because of a little weed.

Then there is the acceptable racism. People on a Democratic board, a large majority opinion, saying social assistance needs to be restricted because the poor would just waste it on booze. Yep, the poor can not be trusted, they need to have their freedom to choose restricted and their last vestiges of dignity stripped from them.

People on a Democratic board advocating for what is essentially a whites only line at airports or profiling to give it the more acceptable name.

The different treatment of abortion terrorist Scott Roeder, who did kill, but may only get five years and the nut who set his balls on fire and thus created a World wide over reaction is telling.

When it becomes acceptable for a tv news network to whip up fear and anger against a whole religion, I do have to ask what lessons did we learn from Germany 1939. All to often, I think the wrong ones.

As for the President, is he being treated differently because he is black? I do not know, but I do not remember Kerry supporters demanding to see the birth certificate of Howard Dean. I also seem to remember that the ONLY other candidate whose Church was used against them by another Democratic candidate was Jesse Jackson. Of course years later the same crap was repeated with claims of Farrakhan links. As if he is a monster.

Acorn existed for years in America. McCain when he was a once reasonable person spoke at their functions. Now Obama is elected, it is the most evil thing ever and has its hands on everything. Two rich kids with too much time on their hands should not have been able to get a Democratic Congress in a panic over a dubious tape.

Racists may be fewer in number, they are however be louder when all ganged up, however it is hard to give a fuck about people who hate you anyway. The ironic thing is, many of them are now part of the great suppressed. Institutional, systemic racism has not ended, it is still as pernicious as ever.

All of that however is just a part of what is faced by Barack Obama. He managed to overcome many obstacles, often placed there by his own Party, to become President. On top of all that is the beautification of Saints Hillary and Dennis. They would have been perfect Presidents. The blue dogs would have folded, there would have been no division in the House. They would have won more votes and seats than the record won by Barack Obama. Hillary would have ben the most Liberal & Conservative President ever. They could have taken down Goldman Sachs (why that bank and not others??) without taking down the whole banking industry. She wanted a no mandate mandate on health care.

I could go on, a lot of that is just simple jealousy. Their candidate lost. A lot is the bot syndrome that they accuse Obama supporters of. They do not see a politician, they see someone who could have magically disappeared away the problems that they themselves have by being elected.

Politics is not like that. When you are in power in politics you realise how little you can affect change, it is piecemeal. Nothing is overnight. Small things can however make big differences. There are issues that can sideline your whole agenda. Yet too few on the main board remember that. 30 years of bad policy will not be changed overnight.

The problem I see is that many on the left heard the stories put round by Fox, Clinton, Mccain, that Obama was the most Liberal Senator and liked it. They wanted a left wing George Bush. In some ways because he was black. They assumed all black Democratic politicians hold on to far left views because they do. He was never that.

The Democratic Party has forgotten how to govern. Just as Republicans did, they needed to get behind their President. Their failure to do so, could cost them dear. Divided parties lose elections. There is time to correct that but do they want to? It is far easier to oppose something than support something.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-24-10 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Damn, what a great post.
Recreational drug laws that protect the two of the worst drugs, after all there is nothing wrong with big tobacco and the drinks industry, but will put people away in the real still legal form of slavery that is the prison system.

I did a post on the racism behind prison sentencing here - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7004638

When the housing bubble burst many blamed the poor for the misfortune of being poor and gettiing kicked out to tent city.

I've participated in so many discussions about this here. This was before my interest in and enthusiasm for DU dropped like a stone. The fact that so many in the media and even some in government were blaming poor black people for the housing crisis was so obscene and yet, so DAMN TYPICAL of America was almost too much to believe.

Politics is not like that. When you are in power in politics you realise how little you can affect change, it is piecemeal. Nothing is overnight.

Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, you have to be exceptionally bright, have an understanding of history, or have genuine governing experience to understand this. And there are far too many people on this web site who lack all three of these qualities. Ironic thing is, they are usually the loudest and most frequent posters with endless commentary on everything even though they have next to nothing to back it up.

The different treatment of abortion terrorist Scott Roeder, who did kill, but may only get five years and the nut who set his balls on fire and thus created a World wide over reaction is telling.

Ain't that the damn truth.

I recently watched a documentary on the History Channel here about racial issues in the UK during the 1960s. It was fascinating to me how similar the issues of people of color in the UK were to people here in America. I was so proud to see the black folks there demanding their rights under the banner of "we were born here and we will have our rights." The anti-Asian sentiment in the UK is baffling to me, but it is definitely not unusual. Australia has a very similar policy (even though of course it's not publicly said). I don't get it, I really don't. There seems to be some fear of Asians -- particularly the Chinese, Vietnamese, Indians and Pakistanis -- as if some whites are afraid that they will come in and take over their entire culture or something. It's almost similar to the resentment so many have towards Jews -- that somehow they are more "sinister" or "devilish" because they tend to be more educated and successful. When you start to resent people because they are accomplished, it says a hell of alot more about you than it ever will about them.
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SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
15. DU has become a cesspool of knuckledraggers and their hateful apologists
there must have been a meme posted recently about upping the antagonism--I wonder where it is all going to stop? At a modern day lynching of some innocent person of color?
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. "become??"
Girl, where have you been for the last 13-14 months?? Like I said to BigotBasher upthread, I've lost every single bit of interest and enthusiasm that I ever had in this place.

And the thing that gets me the most is with all of the cluelessness, stupidity, lies, hypocrisy and foolishness that covers this place like kudzu, half the people that still post here and haven't retired their user names in disgust still pat themselves on the back pleased as punch with their "thoughtfullness" and "intellect" while proclaiming this site as brimming with "the smartest people on the Internet." Every time I see that mess, I can't decide whether to laugh hysterically or puke.
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TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-28-10 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. After today
and my attempt to expose a hate site that wants to KILL Democratic supporters, my frustration has increased massively.
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