Will grocery-store bag fees be a problem for poor people?

[Bill McBlueState]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3405567#3405782

I totally understand the need to reduce waste from shopping bags. But proposals like the one in LA (see the linked thread) force people to either (1) shell out at least a few dollars' worth of quarters every month or (2) buy an array of reusable bags. Obviously this will be harder for some people than for others.

I'm on a really tight budget right now, and while I could probably *manage* to adjust to a ban on free grocery bags, it certainly wouldn't make things any easier.

Am I nuts for thinking there could be a way to maintain the environmental benefits of a bag ban without it becoming yet another way to nickle and dime poor people?

[Eric J in MN]

1. I bring the same double-paper bags to the supermarket again and again...

...and they hold up fine.

[movonne]

2. buying cloth bags works well...they are cheap and it is a one time

buy...we will have to change our ways of living or parish...

[gateley]

3. A lot of cities are giving out free reusable shopping bags. nt

[Bill McBlueState]

4. That's the way to do it...

Hopefully they aren't making people supply a stack of paperwork to prove they need the free bags, which I could see happening. It would be pretty easy to give a supply to the local WIC office to distribute.

[gateley]

8. That would be perfect - giving it to the local WIC office.

I'm guessing there will be big promotions, too, so companies may be handing out bags just so you'll carry their advertising.

I think it will all work out, and we need to knock it off disposable bags. :hi:

Next: Plastic bottles!

[bobbolink]

14. What are you going to do about the IMMENSE amount of plastic wrapping that is thrown out by

companies???

It amounts to much more.

Or is it just much more fun to target people who can't afford it?

[Bill McBlueState]

18. Hey, we could use you on the original thread

People are saying things like, "If you are in government support programs, then feel lucky."

...and other posts in which some DUers show us precisely how much empathy they have for the poor.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3405567#3405782

[bobbolink]

22. Thanks, Bill, for caring and understanding!

I've come to the point of giving up on DU with regard to poverty.

It has become VERY CONSERVATIVE here, and people are often HATEFUL towards poor people... even more so than REAL conservatives!!

:cry:

I appreciate your concern, I really do!

:hi:

[bobbolink]

13. Which helps homeless people....how????

When you don't even have a place to store NECESSARY items, where in hell are you going to store bags????

I could go on.

YOU think it's a great idea, because it's not a problem for YOU.

It's definitely time for O for the P..... Preferential Option For The Poor.

[salvorhardin]

5. I don't think it's a huge burden

After all, stores in my area sell them for as little as $1 and they hold more than the average plastic or paper bag. However, if one wanted to help out poorer people the city could subsidize the cost of reusable bags by buying a large number of bags and reselling them to people for less than cost. It would cost taxpayers more up front, but the cost of reduced trash hauling alone should make up for it.

[bobbolink]

15. How poor are you? Are you homeless?

[YOY]

6. Seeing as how the reusable ones cost 1$ at Ikea or around 3$ at the grocery store

and both last forever for all intended purposes.

No.

The rising cost of food though is a different kettle of fish....pun intended.

[rawtribe]

7. If you live near a Whole Foods

They sell reusable bags for 99 cents.

[bobbolink]

16. Do you know many poor people who shop at Whole Foods?

Could you all TRY to think about poor people?

[rawtribe]

19. Walk in buy a bag or two

walk out.

Why can poor people do that?

[bobbolink]

21. Make a special trip for bags that don't last?

"Why can poor people do that?"

I don't know why they can..... That doesn't make sense.

You seem to be the one with all the answers, so you tell US.

[rawtribe]

23. You don't want answers.

I'd say have a nice day. Some how I think you'd find a reason not to.

:eyes:

[bobbolink]

25. Nobody asked you for "answers". What I'm asking you to do is to understand

that making life harder for poor people, and punishing THEM isn't going to save the earth.

[rawtribe]

24. Target's stylish (and affordable!) reusable bag

http://www.greendaily.com/2008/01/23/targets-stylish-and-affordable-reusable-bag/

[bobbolink]

26. I'm sure that will be of GREAT INTEREST to homeless people.

:eyes: :wtf:

If you might just for a minute, stop thinking about MIDDLE CLASS wants and desires and think about how PUNISHING POOR PEOPLE isn't helping anything, we could then actually have a constructive dialogue.

[Warpy]

9. YES!!

I use canvas and string bags, but poor folks can't afford that initial outlay and will get dinged every time they shop. The plastic bags in use now are too flimsy to use more than two or three times, even doubled.

I would prefer to see the carrot approach extended, rather than the stick, with the payback for using reusable bags increased until the payback on purchasing a reusable bag drops to a few weeks or months rather than years.

Poor folks are already paying for those bags because they're figured into the store overhead that determines the store markup. Charging them extra just adds insult to injury.

And I absolutely loathe plastic bags, especially when they're flapping up in my trees for years before they finally shred beyond recognition.

[hlthe2b]

10. I'm concerned about having bags for the doggies...seriously

Not meaning to be flip, but the move away from having any plastic bags available to recycle for this purpose will cause havoc for those who barely comply with basic "pooper scooping" etiquette... If they are expected to purchase special bags for the purpose, I'm guessing much compliance will go by the wayside. I will do the right thing, even if I have to special order bags, but it will be a real change and not one that many will embrace.

[MountainLaurel]

29. We use cheap Ziploc sandwich baggies

At a place like Costco, you can get a few hundred for less than $10. And they're big enough to handle even whatever our retriever can dish out, so to speak.

[On the Road]

11. It Will be a Slight Problem

another cost will be purchasing plastic trash bags for anyone who uses t-shirt bags for that purpose now. As well as the multiple "one-time" purchases of permanent bags that will eventually pile up when people do not happen to have their bags with them.

[bobbolink]

12. Of course it's a problem.

This is another one of those "liberal" ideas that flies before considering how it affects those who can least afford it.

There will be all kinds of rationalizations, but the fact is, this is a penalty on consumers that does very little to attack the actual problem, and is thought of and approved by those who don't stop to think about others besides themselves and their own situations.

Then they wonder why they get the title of "Elitist".

It's very sad.

And a main reason why the Dems--long the party of poor folk---is rapidly losing our votes.

:(

[maryf]

17. Absolutely

Its like the recycle scam, takes more energy to recycle than its worth. Its basically just a way for people to feel good about what they've done today and keep them busy wasting water washing cans and bottles.

There is a problem with plastic, but as you say the corporations with there huge pallets wrapped ten times use much more without accountability. And to mandate folks having to pay for the plastic bags hurts no one but the poor and does very little if anything about the problem.

Please buy the reusable bags, but please don't penalize those who really can't afford the funds or space.

And I hope someone else has the courtesy to respond to you, Bobbolink, I think you make great sense. :pals:

[bobbolink]

27. We're outshouted, Mary.

There is, clearly, either no understanding of or no concern for poor people.

:cry:

[Obamanaut]

20. How about carrying a pillow cover to transport purchases? nt

[bobbolink]

28. Of course it's a problem. The issue is... does it matter to "progressives"?

Clearly, not.