"DU DOES NOT permit homophobic bigotry and DOES NOT welcome members who oppose equal rights for all"

[Zuiderelle]

"Democratic Underground DOES NOT permit homophobic bigotry and DOES NOT welcome members who oppose equal rights for all." - Skinner

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4311151&mesg_id=4318100

Thank you Skinner, and thank you for my new signature.

[LostinVA]

1. Good sig

[zanne]

2. I SAY AMEN! nt

[Richardo]

3. 1st rec!

:thumbsup:

:patriot:

:pals:

[racaulk]

4. .

:applause:

[YOY]

5. Hol-ee shit. That was either a really misinformed Dem or a total deep FReep.

n/t

[auntAgonist]

6. I was so glad to see that from Skinner.

thanks!

:hug:

aA

[Mabus]

7. Yay Skinner!

K&R. Dissent and discussion are one thing, bigotry and opposition to equal rights is another.

[LeftCoast]

8. Lotta words for so little action

I've heard it before. Sorry...not impressed.

Will wait (while not holding my breath) to see if anything changes around here.

[Zuiderelle]

9. I'm choosing to believe the line I quoted.

I'll wait and see if someone like unfrigginreal is allowed to break that rule again.

I've rarely seen Skinner admit that he made a mistake, so I'll give him something for that. I do think that him saying that unfrigginreal claiming to be gay made it somehow remotely ok to post what he did was wrong, but hopefully the mandate he put forth that DU won't tolerate members who don't believe in equality, will prevent anyone else from getting away with it.

[LostinVA]

10. Yup, being gay (or "gay") doesn't give you a right to be a homophobe

:pals:

[closeupready]

14. Absolutely correct. One's sexual orientation is irrelevant to the merits of one's arguments,

and I've told gay friends to get lost (not in VA, lol) when they've said particularly homophobic things. Don't want that negative energy in my life.

[Robbien]

17. It was not so much the gay admission

Skinner said he considered unfrigginreal's apology to Skinner was heartfelt and real. Perhaps if unfrigginreal's apology to DU was the same as the one he sent to Skinner, the thread may have gone a bit differently. Well, maybe.

The apology to DU sucked and was unbelievable.

[norepubsin08]

11. Amen!!!

[closeupready]

12. Excellent! I knew Skinner would reconsider. Thanks a million!

:hi:

[madmax]

13. Democracy at work

It's a beautiful thing. :grouphug:

[Moloch]

15. Good.

There's no place for homophobic bigotry in any community -- especially not a progressive one.

Offtopic: PelosiFan, I absolutely love the picture in your sig. Its been cracking me up all day.

[Raster]

16. Thank you, Skinner!!

Homophobic bigotry like sexist bigotry and racist bigotry and ageist bigotry has NO PLACE on a Democratic message board.

[terrya]

18. Recommended. And I hope its ok, but I added that as my sig line, also.

[Zuiderelle]

19. It makes a great sig, doesn't it?

:patriot:

[uppityperson]

20. about time. Thank you skinner and great new sig line.

[Bluenorthwest]

21. It is good to hear

God I could go on and on. But I won't. Obama's speech today was too good to spoil with any thoughts but thoughts of victory.

Peace to all.

[Dragonbreathp9d]

22. K, R, and Agreed!

GLBT ALLY

[jtrockville]

23. =

[RobertDevereaux]

24. Nice!

[Turn CO Blue]

25. Kewl. How is it that I'm here everyday and still miss all the shitstorms?

I missed Olive Garden and breast-feeding too. I do remember corn flakes and when Skinner put a moratorium on sexual innuendo in the Lounge, though.

Equal rights for all, please.

[xchrom]

26. recommend

[cboy4]

27. Looks like I missed all of the "excitement." I'm not sure who

I'm more pissed at.

The asshole who was banned.

Or the assholes who defended him in that thread, welcoming him back.

I can't express how disappointed I am with some of these DUers, including one whom I formed an alliance with during the primaries when I/we were heavily outnumbered.

It makes me sick.

[SacredCow]

28. Dayum.....

I always miss the live ones...

Hella-Sweet sigline, though!

:hi:

[AmyCamus]

29. "DOES NOT welcome members who oppose equal rights for all."

OK. I find this troubling, because - please correct me if I am wrong - neither Obama nor Biden support gay marriage. Word wrestle all you want - but opposing gay marriage is opposing equal rights for all.

[Toasterlad]

38. Welcome to My World...and Welcome to DU

The important thing is to SAY you favor equal rights for everyone, but dismiss your candidates rejection of same as "being realistic"*.

*translation: lacking balls.

[Fran Kubelik]

51. OT: Yma Sumac fan?

:hi:

[guruoo]

30. IMO, unfreakingreal's use of slur undermined an otherwise valid complaint

(as I interpret it to be) directed at the number GLBT equal rights avocates that appear so easily willing to
reject any proposed enforcement of tangible rights for GLBT partners if it doesn't have
the label 'marriage' attached to it.

edited for clarity

[racaulk]

31. Who was arguing against a "proposed enforcement of tangible rights for GLBT partners?"

:shrug:

I think you either misunderstand the position of the marriage equality advocates here, or you are trying to mischaracterize their position with a strawman argument. I don't recall anyone saying that it should be an "all or nothing" case, where we won't accept anything if it's not marriage. I, for one, would be thrilled to have all of the rights that come with marriage, because I understand that this (unfortunately) may be a necessary stepping stone to achieving full equality. I am NOT "so easily willing to reject any proposed enforcement of tangible rights for GLBT partners if it doesn't have the label 'marriage' attached to it," as you claim.

I will not stop working for full marriage equality, nor will I stop trying to pursuade others that marriage equality is just and fair in our society...even if those people are our Pres and VP candidates. They don't get a pass from me, and I will continue to push them and other Democrats, as much as I am able, to adopt policies that include equality for all Americans. Asking our Dems to be more progressive does not mean that I am a traitor to the cause or that I am trying to cause Obama to lose, as has been suggested by others, including the former DUer unfrigginreal.

Further, if you have to use language such as "stupid queers," "you're a fucking joke," "boo hoo," "you suck," and "fuck them" to mock the people that disagree with you to argue your point, then perhaps the point isn't as valid as you seem to think it is.

Are you really trying to restart this argument, in the GLBT forum of all places?

[guruoo]

39. No strawman here. I agree with you 100%.

[Duncan Grant]

32. Your exposition of unfrigginreal's original post deserves its own thread.

I'll wait with bated breath...

edit to add:

unfrigginreal Fri Oct-03-08 08:22 PM
Original message
Stupid Queers on here don't get it

You're a fucking joke. The best pair to come around and you're handwringing. Well boo hoo. U suck. We finally have a ticket that will fight for gay rights and the 'activist' don't accept them. Well fuck them! That's the part of DU I can't stand.

[racaulk]

35. Oh come now, don't be so snarky.

I'm sure unfrigginreal had a "valid complaint" in there somewhere. :eyes:

Don't worry though. I'm confident that our resident sole voice of reason will come by soon to apologize to the homophobe enablers on our behalf.

[Duncan Grant]

37. Why Mr. racaulk, I'm as innocent as a child!

[davidinalameda]

43. he's partially right

of course the way he said it was completely fucked-up, for lack of a better term

you have people on here that go after anyone who isn't ideologically pure

You had several posters on here who refused to see that Obama was better on gay issues that Hillary was, and I'm sure you still have several to this day because of McClurkin or whatever his name is

they ignored the fact that Obama supported a full repeal of DOMA while Hillary only supported a partial repeal of it

[Duncan Grant]

45. I think some of us are more comfortable with petty tyranny than others.

Metaphorically speaking, I think we've reached the foot of the Edmund Pettus Bridge for the third time -- and I'm fantasizing about running across screaming, with brass knuckles clenched in both my fists. Can you see those people (with your mind's eye), waiting on the other side? They don't care whether it's called gay marriage or gay civil unions because they intend to fight the legitimacy of our relationships no matter what.

So, what's to equivocate?

[davidinalameda]

52. you're right

Prop 8 was watered down from its original form-it was going to ban civil unions as well but the anti-marriage people knew that would lose so they just went after marriage while keeping civil unions, which I think are not worth the paper they're printed on if you leave the state

but some gay people want to throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water; the same thing with an ENDA without being trans inclusive

I believe that half a loaf is better than no loaf and losing on principle is still losing

[Toasterlad]

33. Thank You So Much For Telling Me What I Should Be Outraged About!

How silly of me to fly off the handle just because I can't drink from the same water fountain as the straight folks! Where was my silly gay brain? Oh, you know us gays...drama queens all! Any excuse to screech like nellies!

I'm so glad that we have people like you responding to this offense situation in such a clearly inoffensive and empathetic manner! You are my fucking HERO.

[terrya]

34. That would be because civil unions don't offer the same amount of benefits as marriage.

Plus, we deserve marriage.

Of course, I'm just a "stupid queer", so I guess I just fly off the handle at any silly little thing.

[guruoo]

41. I firmly believe that this 'all or nothing' attitude is undermining progress

in the struggle to gain full marriage rights for gays.

[Captiosus]

44. "Separate but Equal" worked oh-so-well, didn't it?

:sarcasm:

Sorry, but I've argued both points-of-view (civil unions with full rights and marriage) and the only logical conclusion is to support equal rights for all. This means marriage, not separate civil unions.

Accepting "stepping stones" is merely appeasement and accepting appeasement usually makes it significantly harder to achieve real equality. African-Americans accepted the appeasement of Separate but Equal... and then had to wait another 70 years after Plessy v. Ferguson before they got actual equality. Even the phrase - "Civil Union" - gives off a negative connotation. It's the paper version of "Colored Only" bathrooms and, by itself, promotes discrimination by making "Civil Unions" sound different and/or inferior to marriage.

This next part might get me flamed but I can't think of a better way to put it: I'm a straight white married male and I consider myself to be a GLBT activist. I have gay friends who are in relationships that have lasted as long as my marriage. Some have lasted longer. Why should they not be able to have all the same rights, and the happiness, of being able to say they are married?

The only way to achieve equality is to accept marriage and renounce being made into a second class citizen by "settling" for Civil Unions.

[guruoo]

46. I'd just like to see more progress in securing the tangible rights for gays...

for example, as in inheritance, health benefits, tax filing options,
family leave, right to visit a sick or dying partner
in the hospital, ect, ect.

[LostinVA]

49. Those are all rights given married couples

Very easily solved by allowing same sex marriage.

Haruka and I have all of those rights in NJ, and soon in CT, and hopefully soon in NY. But, not on a Federal level or in most states.

[LostinVA]

48. Glad MLK didn't agree, or your avatar would be of someone else

"Rights delayed are rights denied!"

[Clintonista2]

40. I wonder if your response would be the same

If the Dem ticket were in favor of "tangible rights" for African Americans, so long as marriage wasn't one of them.

[guruoo]

42. I give up. You win. Good luck.

[LostinVA]

50. He does win, because he's right

[Zuiderelle]

47. It's a BULLSHIT complaint. He was complaining about anyone even DISCUSSING disappointment about

Biden's say that he was against gay marriage in the VP debate.

I hate this lie that we care about a word. We care about EQUALITY.

[Meeker Morgan]

36. Good! n/t