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Quindlen: How Much Jail Time for Women Who Have Abortions?

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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 08:42 PM
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Quindlen: How Much Jail Time for Women Who Have Abortions?
Newsweek.com
Quindlen: How Much Jail Time for Women Who Have Abortions?
By Anna Quindlen
Newsweek

Aug. 6, 2007 issue - Buried among prairie dogs and amateur animation shorts on YouTube is a curious little mini-documentary shot in front of an abortion clinic in Libertyville, Ill. The man behind the camera is asking demonstrators who want abortion criminalized what the penalty should be for a woman who has one nonetheless. You have rarely seen people look more gobsmacked. It's as though the guy has asked them to solve quadratic equations. Here are a range of responses: "I've never really thought about it." "I don't have an answer for that." "I don't know." "Just pray for them." You have to hand it to the questioner; he struggles manfully. "Usually when things are illegal there's a penalty attached," he explains patiently. But he can't get a single person to be decisive about the crux of a matter they have been approaching with absolute certainty.

A new public-policy group called the National Institute for Reproductive Health wants to take this contradiction and make it the centerpiece of a national conversation, along with a slogan that stops people in their tracks: how much time should she do? If the Supreme Court decides abortion is not protected by a constitutional guarantee of privacy, the issue will revert to the states. If it goes to the states, some, perhaps many, will ban abortion. If abortion is made a crime, then surely the woman who has one is a criminal. But, boy, do the doctrinaire suddenly turn squirrelly at the prospect of throwing women in jail.

(snip)

Perhaps by ignoring or infantilizing women, turning them into "victims" of their own free will. State statutes that propose punishing only a physician suggest the woman was merely some addled bystander who happened to find herself in the wrong stirrups at the wrong time. Such a view seemed to be a vestige of the past until the Supreme Court handed down its most recent abortion decision upholding a federal prohibition on a specific procedure. Justice Anthony Kennedy, obviously feeling excessively paternal, argued that the ban protected women from themselves. "While we find no reliable data to measure the phenomenon," he wrote, "it seems unexceptionable to conclude some women come to regret their choice to abort the infant life they once created and sustained."

Even with "no reliable data," he went on to conclude that "severe depression and loss of esteem can follow." (Apparently, no one has told Justice Kennedy about the severe depression and loss of esteem that can follow bearing and raising a baby you can't afford and didn't want.) Luckily, there still remains one justice on the court who has actually been pregnant, and Ruth Bader Ginsburg roared back with a dissent that called Kennedy's caveat about regret an "anti-abortion shibboleth" and his opinion a reflection of "ancient notions about women's place in the family and under the Constitution—ideas that have long since been discredited."

(snip)

But there are only two logical choices: hold women accountable for a criminal act by sending them to prison, or refuse to criminalize the act in the first place. If you can't countenance the first, you have to accept the second. You can't have it both ways.

URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20010696/site/newsweek/
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. This is superb. Quindlen at her best.
Edited on Thu Aug-02-07 08:48 PM by BleedingHeartPatriot
:kick: :toast: :yourock: :kick: MKJ

edit to add,

Perhaps by ignoring or infantilizing women, turning them into "victims" of their own free will. State statutes that propose punishing only a physician suggest the woman was merely some addled bystander who happened to find herself in the wrong stirrups at the wrong time.


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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
2. Brilliant!
I'm going to drop this puss bomb on a few "friends" and see their reaction. Can't wait!
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
3. Excellent!!!
K&R :D
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 08:58 PM
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4. That's a good approach.
I am going to borrow that. :)
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 09:03 PM
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5. kick, can only R once.
:kick: MKJ
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 09:05 PM
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6. Well, logically, if abortion is murder, as they have been telling us,
and certainly abortions are premeditated, the penalty would be death or at the very least ife in prison. Furthermore, miscarriages should be prosecutable as wrongful deaths, no?
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bullimiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 09:08 PM
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7. no you cant have it both ways and murder is murder.
so if they really believe it then both the doctors and patients should get the death penalty. its premeditated and involving a minor.
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. I'll bet that question did stop them in their tracks. After all, an
answer requires logic and individual thought, attributes which I'm sure most of the protesters he approached don't find much use for.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
9. I don't think they'll have any problem..
Edited on Thu Aug-02-07 09:36 PM by stillcool47
at all sending women to jail. The head fundies will probably relish the thought.
...on a side note..something I didn't realize. This is from a Chalmers Johnson piece.."An Empire of Bases"
http://www.globalpolicy.org/empire/intervention/2004/01bases.htm
The military prefers bases that resemble small fundamentalist towns in the Bible Belt rather than the big population centers of the United States. For example, even though more than 100,000 women live on our overseas bases -- including women in the services, spouses, and relatives of military personnel -- obtaining an abortion at a local military hospital is prohibited. Since there are some 14,000 sexual assaults or attempted sexual assaults each year in the military, women who become pregnant overseas and want an abortion have no choice but to try the local economy, which cannot be either easy or pleasant in Baghdad or other parts of our empire these days.

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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
10. Kennedy's needs to be tied in a knot....
all males who demand abortion to be outlawed need to be snipped. They are, after all, the problem.

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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-03-07 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. I like the comment about Ginsburg
being the only member of the Supreme Court who was actually pregnant.

Men have no business in telling women what they should or should not do.
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AwakeAtLast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-03-07 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
11. Wonderful article!
We need many, many more like it to make people wake up!

:hi:
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-14-07 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
13. I ask that question of my "pro-life" acquaintances all the time.
They don't like it one bit, but I do. I always try to use the term "Criminalization" when discussing abortion, because I always want to remind "pro-lifers" that what they really want is to criminalize a procedure.

True support for criminalization is incredibly weak. I hope our side never forgets that.
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