Jesus Christ Superman

[LostinVA]

LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- First there were the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

Now, for many Christian moviegoers comes another gospel.

As the hype machine shifts into high gear for the upcoming release of "Superman Returns," some are reading deeply into the film whose hero returns from a deathlike absence to play savior to the world.

"It is so on the nose that anyone who has not caught on that Superman is a Christ figure, you think, 'Who else could it be referring to?' " said Steve Skelton, who wrote a book examining parallels between Superman and Christ.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Movies/06/14/film.supermanchristfigure.ap/index.html


Oi. That's all I have to say.

[MissB]

1. Oh my.

:rofl:

[LostinVA]

2. My second response, after I said, "Jesus Christ.."

[Orrex]

3. I like it when they slap Superman onto the cross with Kryptonite nails

Holy moley, what a load of shit.

I went to sleep last night and rose this morning, just as I'd prophesied yesterday afternoon. While packing my lunch, I made two sandwiches, where there appeared to have been enough bread only for one.

I guess I'm just like Jesus.

[Akoto]

4. Jesus invented time by flying around the Earth really fast.

[LostinVA]

5. I guess Lex equals Satan... or something, and Lois Lane is

the Magdalene....

[fishwax]

37. actually, yeah

Lex Luther=Lucifer. It's pretty explicit in the original film. I think Lois has been seen as both Mary Magdalene and as "the holy spirit."

But again, it doesn't make the film didactic or an endorsement. It's just tapping into a prominent cultural mythology. It certainly doesn't make it a fundy movie ...

[Marr]

6. I think they got that impression from the first trailer- it really did

seem to be portraying Superman as a Christ-like figure. The voiceover was Superman's father saying something like, 'they can be a great people- they only need the light to show the way. So I send them you, my only son'. I actually thought it was an interesting angle, but it was only a teaser trailer. Subsequent promotions have made no reference to it.

[Aristus]

33. I've been parsing that speech of Marlon Brando's from the first

film for years. Very messianic, but in a good way. I have highly developed 'religious whacko' radar, but I always loved that speech.

"They can be a great people, Kal-El, if they wish to be; they only lack the light to show them the way. For this reason above all others, their capacity for good, I have sent them you, my only son..."

[Marr]

35. Same here- I love those lines.

It definitely has a messianic feel to it, but it just works. I like that Christ angle alot better than the usual Moses "toss the kid out into space to escape disaster" angle. It's so much more heroic.

[fishwax]

7. I think marketing for the movie certainly seems to be playing it up

The last scene of the trailer I saw shows a distant view of earth, with the voiceover of a man's voice (superman's daddy, i assume) saying a line quite similar to the "and god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son" quote from the gospel. (Can't remember what superdad says exactly, but it's clearly along those lines.)

[im10ashus]

8. Oi vay! eom

[RoseMead]

9. You know, my favorite part of the Gospels

is where they put the baby Jesus on a spaceship and send him off to a distant world just before his home planet is destroyed...

[Marr]

11. I like the old testament- when Moses is bitten by that radioactive goat.

[unpossibles]

15. of course! And that means the Holy Grail -

or the vessel of Christ - is really his spaceship. It all makes sense now!

[tenshi816]

38. Wouldn't it be funny

if that was the way it really happened? Just throwing it out there...

[saltpoint]

10. I may skip the Superman flick and hold out for SPIDERMAN 3. Harry

Osborne seeks to avenge his father's death at the hands of Spiderman, and assumes the garb and chores of the Green Goblin.

Damn was that a great series of comic books.

[EOTE]

23. Let's not forget....

Thomas Hayden Church as Sandman and Topher Grace as Venom. That's going to be a killer flick.

[saltpoint]

24. Yep. A film of Marvel's THOR is also in the works. Should be terrific.

[LostinVA]

31. I think those two will be great!

[TimeChaser]

12. Well, there are a lot of 'christ figures' in literature and popular...

...culture.

What's the harm if someone wants to see another?

[GreenPartyVoter]

13. ummmmm. this parallel can be drawn in any good vs evil story.

Sounds like Steve here is seeing what he wants to see.

[fishwax]

14. I think the similarities are actually pretty clear as well, and

it's not actually anything new to see these similarities. I'm not terribly familiar with all of superman's story, but there are some obvious parallels, I think. This is not unusual in western literature, nor is it necessarily an endorsement of the religion in any way.

The Christ-figure trope is common in western literature, due to the heavy influence of the religion. Having a storyline that draws from that is no more an endorsement of Christianity than a storyline that follows Homer is an endorsement of the religion of an ancient greeks.

It's simply a way of connecting to a mythology that resonates with the audience. (Of course, sometimes it does have deeper significance, I'm merely pointing out that non-christians need not fear the messianic tendencies of the superman story.)

[KyuzoGator]

16. Fuck, why is every resurrection theme interpreted as a Christ allegory?

The idea existed long before Jesus was around.

[LostinVA]

19. Bingo n/t

[TlalocW]

17. Continuing my tradition

Of being able to find an online comic related to the subject...

http://www.yirmumah.net/archives.php?date=20060522

And just because I found it funny...

http://www.yirmumah.net/archives.php?date=20060519

His latest regular print comic book will have Jesus Vs. Superman on the cover - The Son of God vs. The Son of Jor-El

TlalocW

[BlueStorm]

46. This is funny....

Made me crack up when I saw it

[Lerkfish]

18. considering superman's creators were both jewish, I find that hard to

believe.

I think its just more likely that the archetype of hero is universal, and altruistic sacrifice is hardwired into most society and comes out through their religion, their myth and their art.

[TomPainesBones]

20. Anyone who is familiar with the first two Donner Superman films

knows there is indeed a biblical parallel.

Marlon Brando as Jor-El (God) casts General Zod (Satan) out of Krypton (Heaven) who later shows up on Earth in an attempt to rule over humans (There's even a walking on water scene in Superman II).

Jor-El also sends his only son Kal-El (Jesus) to Earth in a crystal ship (Star of Bethlehem) where he is raised by John & Martha Kent (Joseph & Mary) and then when he reaches adulthood goes out into the world in an attempt to save humanity.

The first two movies (conceived and filmed as one story) are filled with so many other parallels it would be exhausting to include them all. Director Richard Donner (a well known left-wing liberal) acknowledges this, as does Bryan Singer - who directed Superman Returns.

Of course, one could say that the Bible is a collection of recycled Greek myths, and Superman is just continuing the tradition of borrowing from ancient hero stories.


"They can be a great people Kal-El. They wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you... my only son."

[Frank Cannon]

21. Superman was created by two Jewish boys from Cleveland

I doubt that Christian allegory really figured much into their thinking when they came up with the character.

I think that comparing heroic figures to Christ is something we see a lot today, and it is an absolute cop-out. The idea that is presented is simply this: that the reason you are seeing the hero do such heroic and altruistic things is that he/she is simply "better" than us in a grand Godly way, and therefore to do good things is just in his/her nature. There is no real effort or challenge in their being so "good".

I have never looked at the Superman character this way. Sure, it would seem that being "good" comes easy for Superman because he is superpowerful and invulnerable. But he could be a horrible tyrant and cruelly rule all the earth just the same. He CHOOSES to always do the right thing because he knows his power and he WANTS to do it, not because he is some sort of automatically good Messiah figure.

[ComerPerro]

27. And a fundie, conservative Superman would murder everyone

and rule the world

[LostinVA]

28. Correct -- you can find this story in Pagan cultures, in myths, etc.

It's just something they're co-opting for themselves. That irritates me...

[Ishoutandscream2]

22. C'mon. The second coming of Christ isn't Superman

It's the one who sits in the White House. You know, the Boy King himself. :silly:

[ComerPerro]

25. If we had an honset, fair, responsible media, these idiots would be

laughed out of the public sector. Their contention is complete nonsense.

[TomPainesBones]

29. Not true.

Read post 20.

While I have no problem with them as a general rule being laughed out of the public sector, the contention is not nonsense. It's been around for decades. It's just that fundies are only now catching on.

They didn't make much of a fuss in 1978, but there's more of them now.

I've been waiting for two years to see how this new movie will play with them.

I half expected them to reject and protest Superman Returns
for "plagiarizing Jesus' story."

[blogslut]

34. Here's a little gif(t)

For you and all the Superman fans in this thread. Take it. Save to your hard drives. Just don't hotlink me:

[Broken_Hero]

52. thanks for the gif

from a very big superman fan...:hi:

[fishwax]

36. they were apparently outraged before the original movie came out

Richard Donner said he received death threats over his intention to make the story of superman parallel the story of christ.

I agree with you that it isn't nonsense, and the first film actually makes it pretty explicit.

This is not unusual, nor does it make it a fundy film or imply any real accord with the teachings of any particular denomination, fundy or otherwise. It's just tapping into a prominent cultural mythos.

[ComerPerro]

39. No. it is nonsense. If the creators had no desire for their character

to be a parable for the story of Jesus, then it is just rediculous to give any credibility to someone who says otherwise.

[TomPainesBones]

40. No, it's not nonsense.

Superman Returns is a "vague sequel" to the Donner film(s). Director Richard Donner ADMITS there were parallels to the Christ story. Writer Mario Puzo (The Godfather I & II) ADMITS there were parallels to the Christ story. Writer Tom Mankiewicz ADMITS there were parallels to the Christ story. It was on purpose. Watch the film. The makers of that film disagree with you.

Now, you're free to disagree with thier interpretation (which has been around for almost 30 years) of course, but to deny the parallels is, how you say, "complete nonsense."

Keep in mind there have been many different incarnations of Superman. The character has changed and evolved (Siegel and Shuster didn't originally envision a Superman who could fly).

While taking a little bit from all incarnations, Bryan Singer is using Donner's interpretation as the foundation for Superman Returns. Singer and his team have admitted the parallels are there.

Donner's interpretation is FILLED with biblical references.

FACT.

[ComerPerro]

41. Admitting there are parallels doesn't mean it was intentional

But, you know what?

You want a fundy superman, fine, believe whatever the fuck you want.

God bless the moral majority.

[fishwax]

42. noticing parallels hardly makes it a fundy superman

and, with respect to the original movie, the parallels were very much intentional.

But even if there are parallels, that doesn't make the movie religious in any real sense. Christ figures in literature or film need not be didactic or supportive of any particular religion or denomination. They simply tap into a mythology that is immediately accessible to most of the audience.

[TomPainesBones]

44. The parallels in Donner's Superman are not only there

but they were put there ON PURPOSE.

INTENTIONALLY.

Bryan Singer is using Donner's interpretation for Superman Returns.
He has also admitted the parallels are there.

INTENTIONALLY.

I want a fundie Superman?
Pffft!

Like Thomas Paine, I am a Deist.
While I reject Christian dogma, I can appreciate good storytelling.
Superman ain't no fundie. Just the fact you would say that shows how little you know. If anything he's a lefty. Especially today, with liberals like Richard Donner and Bryan Singer telling his story.

Watch Superman: The Movie. Then watch Superman Returns.
Then get back to me. Maybe then you'll at least have an idea what you're talking about.

[TimeChaser]

45. So...

Is "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" fundie material? Because McMurphy is one of the most famous christ-figures in literature.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

43. The original superman used to hit women and old men.

The character has become quite a bit different from what the creators originally created.

[bluefish]

26. That is a good definition of " a reach"

Keep looking for Jesus and cannot see the Devil before you...

[blogslut]

30. Osiris

...was a Christ figure before it was cool.

Feh, silly pre-release hype. I just want the movie to be good. I want Lex Luthor to be his snaky, evil self and I want Superman to the troubled yet valiant hero. I want Jimmy Olsen to be loyal but immature and I want my Lois Lane to be brash and clever.

I hope it's a good film.

[TomPainesBones]

32. Same here

Looking forward to the Donner re-cut of Superman II (with Marlon Brando's scenes restored) in November too.



"I win. I always win. Is there no one on this planet to even challenge me?"

[ContraBass Black]

47. Everybody and his sister is a Christ figure.

Come on, now.

[RamboLiberal]

48. Did any of you catch the A&E Superman Special?

It was on Monday night. Excellent show. It covered all the incarnations of Superman from the comic book inception and how they evolved through the decades, to movie serials, all the TV shows including Smallville and Lois and Clark, cartoons, foreign interpretations, the Christopher Reeve movies to the current film. The writers of this film are very much paying homage to the Chris Reeve/Richard Donner first movie. The writers of Smallville and this current movie did talk about the messianic and biblical parallels. BTW, they are using footage of Brando shot from the Donner film.

Just the parts on Christopher Reeve are worth viewing. They aptly point out how Chris after his accident became a Superman in real life. It's quite a homage to him.

The A&E special is 2 hours and it repeats on Saturday. Look, Up in the Sky! The Amazing Story of Superman®

“Look, Up in the Sky! The Amazing Story of Superman ”
Rated: TVPG

Saturday, June 17 @ 1pm/12C

Here's the story behind the phenomenon of Superman, the most merchandised and imitated superhero of them all. Through interviews with the key creative talents responsible for seven decades of thrilling Superman adventures, we'll follow the Man of Steel's path from Depression-era comic book hero to George Reeves's TV portrayal in the 50s, Christopher Reeve's movies in the 70s and 80s, and the TV shows Lois and Clark and Smallville. There'll even be a sneak preview of the new film, Superman Returns, to be released this summer.

http://www.aetv.com/listings/episode_details.do?episodeid=167896

I've been a fan of Superman since I was a kid growing up late 50's and early 60's and I'm looking forward to seeing this one on an IMAX screen. This one looks like a well done movie. I like the young actor playing Superman/Clark Kent.

The rest of the casting looks well done and it looks like a lot of thought and care went in to this movie.

[Bridget Burke]

49. The Hero's Story has been around for millenia...

Details from the story were conflated with the life of a Jewish traveling teacher to attract worshippers of other Hero Gods. (Yes, I've read Joseph Campbell--he wasn't much of a scientist, but he knew how to tell a good story.)

I've read that Superman's creators were influenced by the life of Abraham & tales of the Golem. Oi, indeed!

[StellaBlue]

50. I just saw it and it has a SHITLOAD of overt Christ symbolism

I am not sure whether this made me uncomfortable or whether it seemed appropriate.

Overall, I thought the movie was great.

[Kire]

51. 'Who else could it be referring to?'

Maybe, Moses? He was sent aloft as a baby, not cuddled in a Manger.

[greccogirl]

53. What drivel.