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I am going to reward Dean's speech with a donation to DNC,

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Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU
 
keepthemhonest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 08:03 AM
Original message
I am going to reward Dean's speech with a donation to DNC,
would anyone like to join me? Since he is in charge of fundraising, this will show the democrats in office that we applaud what he has done. Since the nov 02 election I was against donating to the dems because noone seemed to be standing up for us so why should we open our wallets for them? Now we have a stand up kind of guy let's show them we appreciate what he has done.He has framed the Republican party for what they really are.

By the way, Dean has endorsed a book called "Don't think of an Elephant" ,which is book written soley to help Democrats learn how to frame the topics like the repukes do.Many of you here have probably already heard of the book because word is getting around the internet. We definately needed a tool like this one.You guys should check this book out, it will also help us frame our arguments when trying to talk with Repubs, do not use their terminology. Ex. Blue skies bill and tax relief bill :how do you argue these two phrases by negating them it makes us look like we are the ones with the bad ideas?

Don't Think of an Elephant: Know Your Values and Frame the Debate--The Essential Guide for Progressives
by George Lakoff (Foreword), Howard Dean (Foreword), Don Hazen (Introduction)




I appreciate the Dean speak and am glad to have someone in our party who has some cahones!!!!! I am off to reward Dean and I am going to put a comment if possible telling them why.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
1. I already did-- made sure they knew what motivated my contribution too n/t
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keepthemhonest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. which organization did you donate to?
http://www.democracyforamerica.com/( probably should have donated to this one-this is Dean's baby I think)

or http://www.democrats.org/( this is who I donated to)
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Second one (DNC), with a note telling them
...that it was solely BECAUSE Dean spoke up and out that they were getting my dough!
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keepthemhonest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. me too!
;ove your picture
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gizmonic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
2. Dean's gonna get my dough, too
Rock on, Dr. Dean!
:toast:
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Fiendish Thingy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
3. I'd rather make a contribution to his own organization...
What's it called now? "Take Back America"? Anyone have a link?
When the Dems stop their infighting, and show the same courage and cajones as Dean, then I'll make a contribution...
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keepthemhonest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. it is this one?
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Mister Ed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. The 2004 Dean campaign morphed into Democracy for America.....
http://www.democracyforamerica.com/

From their website:

<SNIP>

"What is Democracy for America?
Inspired by the presidential campaign of Howard Dean, Democracy for America (DFA) is a political action committee dedicated to supporting fiscally responsible, socially progressive candidates at all levels of government—from school board to the presidency. DFA fights against the influence of the far right-wing and their radical, divisive policies and the selfish special interests that for too long have dominated our politics.

DFA has a long-term goal that looks past November 2004. This organization will rebuild the Democratic Party from the bottom up—it will take time, but we must start building a base now for the future. "

<SNIP>

I contribute occasionally and think that the organization embodies the same spirit that powers DU.

It would be great if Dean's tell-it-like-it-is approach results in a swell of contributions to this organization or to the DNC.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
8. As to donations, I'm waiting for Dean and the DNC to do what needs to be
done, which is to bombard the Democratic leaders in each state with the election reform message. Some Democrats are almost as bad as the Bushites on this issue and some are very corrupt. We need help in getting this job done at the local/state level. The national Dems are quite useless on election reform--the only issue that really matters. (What good does it do to advocate on issues if they won't count our votes?) (--nat'l Dems with a couple of notable exceptions, Conyers, Boxer and a few others, but neither are they addressing the critically important local/state battles.)

------

On "framing" our arguments for Republicans, I am totally against it. The Bushites are the minority in the country. Poll after poll establishes this. Bush approval now in the low 40s--incredibly bad ratings, going on for more than a year now--with 60% to 70% of Americans opposed to every major Bush policy, foreign and domestic. His support is as "invisible" as his margin of victory. This was not an election, this was a coup. Why should we "frame" anything for fascists and mobsters?

Dems blew the Bushites away on new voter registration in 2004, nearly 60/40. Most new voters, most Independent voters and most Nader voters voted for Kerry. Where did Bush's margin COME FROM? I'll tell you where: Bush partisan controlled touchscreens changing Kerry votes to Bush votes; stealing %'s with these and central tabulators, here and there, all over the country--most heavily in the east (to secure an early win); 130,000 to 260,000 phantom votes for Bush in electronic voting (in Florida Dem counties, according to one study); 9% inexplicable Bush edge in electronic voting (in another--NC); massive vote suppression, and on and on--a totally invalid, non-transparent, fraudulent election.

Why should we pander to this? It was a crime.

-------

We should be speaking to Democrats and progressives. We are the majority. We are the ones against whom the crime was perpetrated. Many don't know the facts. We should be informing them, and mobilizing them for the all important local election reform battles.

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keepthemhonest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. peace patriot
i like reading your posts and I think you are very insightful. I do not disagree we had the masses on our side, but why not have even more? how do the republicans get the people to vote against their own best interest, i seriously wonder why anyone who isn't in the Top 3% income bracket votes for them at all.It just does not make sense to me. they do it by framing the issues, just imagin if we had another 35% added to our 55%,how would they steel the votes then?
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Peace Patriot, you are 100% correct, as usual.
Perfect post.
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LightningFlash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 04:08 AM
Response to Original message
12. Anyone have Dean's latest email?
I want to make sure I can get a message into him no matter what.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
13. keepthemhonest, I'm not saying that we shouldn't give thought to...
...to framing the political and social debate. Perhaps I should have made that point. In fact, I engage in that activity myself. I am saying BEWARE, BEWARE, BEWARE of the Karl Rove/news monopoly brainwashing that the Bush Cartel was re-elected, that the Right is on the rise, that they represent the majority, that they have somehow "won the argument," that the Left is dying, that the Democrats are a minority party, etc., etc., etc. These things ARE NOT TRUE. But, because they have fascist control of the news monopolies, they can make them APPEAR TO BE TRUE--even to US, who know the facts about the election.

I cannot stress to you how important this is. WE--Democrats and progressives--are the vast majority in the country. WE are the mainstream of America. Fairness, justice, tolerance, generosity, lawfulness, peacefulness--these are our values, and they are shared by MOST Americans. WE won the election on these values. The American people REJECTED the Bush regime and its unfairness, injustice, intolerance, greed, thievery, mass murder and torture, and utterly hypocritical use of religion.

Bush, and his puppetmasters, and the Bush Cartel's "pod people" in Congress and in the news monopolies (who repeat the party line without independent thought) would have you believe otherwise. They are not "winning a debate." They are liars, cheats and criminals. They are ENFORCING their views with corporate propaganda techniques and through sheer financial power.

This, to me, is why election fraud investigation and activism (informing people of the facts) is so important. What do we have here? A problem of persuasion, or a problem of fascist suppression of the truth? Persuasion is always a factor in politics. But if major facts and truths are being suppressed, then you don't have a stage upon which persuasion can occur, and your first job must be understanding what has been suppressed and getting it out in the light of day, so that it CAN be debated.

Let me give you an example. We ourselves use the word "conservative" to describe the Bush regime's radical fascism. Is there anything LESS conservative than a trillion dollar deficit? Is there anything LESS conservative than gobbling up and destroying all the world's natural resources--trees, oil, water, air--with no thought of the future, with no planning for our children? Is there anything LESS conservative than invading another country, killing over 100,000 of its citizens, occupying the country and taking over its major resource, oil, based on a pack of lies about that country's threat to us?

WE OURSELVES USE THIS WORD, CONSERVATIVE, TO DESCRIBE THEM. They don't have to win a debate with us. They have the news monopoly power to define what words mean, and to brainwash US into the using them--that is, into helping them enforce the DELUSION that they are "conservative" (careful, cautious, far-thinking, mainstream, acting for the common good, non-radical)!

Can we debate them? Is there a debate? Is there any "mainstream" forum in which their ENFORCED DELUSION can be challenged?

The answer is no.

So, what WE need to do is, a) purge our brains of their propaganda; and b) understand that we are the majority and help OTHER members of the majority purge their brains of the fascist propaganda that we are not!

We don't do that by "framing the debate" for Bushites. We do that by "framing the debate" for the MAJORITY--and, critically important, finding and creating alternative means of communication in which real debate can occur!

DU and other Internet forums are a good example. Town halls, teach-in's, meetups, etc., are another. New radio (Air America, Democracy Now and others), locally controlled radio, film, DVDs, and whatever TV that the real mainstream can get access to, are yet another. Local independent newspapers are another (papers like the Lone Star Iconoclast in Bush's home town, Crawford, TX). We are in fact creating the news media that we need.

My other shtick is the phrase "mainstream media." I hear it everywhere. I heard it again on Air America yesterday. WE use it. And it is NOT TRUE. There is NOTHING MAINSTREAM about the "mainstream media"! Yet every time we use it, we reinforce their brainwashing message in our own brains, and in those who hear us--that the fascist propaganda of the news monopolies reflects "mainstream" opinion.

Can we--the majority, the MAINSTREAM OF AMERICA, which is essentially progressive--be heard on our fascist-controlled airwaves? No! So what is the use of "framing our debate" for those fascist newsmongers and commentators and the MINORITY rightwing citizens whom they pander to (and I mean the lot of them--the NYT, the WaPo, the WSJ, as well as the alphabet soup of wretched TV and radio news monopolies--not just the Rush Limbaughs)?

I repeat: WE ARE THE MAJORITY, and we are not being served by the news monopolies, we are being brainwashed by them. And we have to CAST THEM OFF--not "debate" with them. They aren't listening. They don't care. They are elitist greedbags and war profiteers--just like the Bush oil cartel and the corporate fatcats that they serve. If we think they will permit any real debate--or provide the majority with any stage upon which to "frame the debate"--we are badly fooling ourselves.

This is my chief argument with Lakoff. He assumes that we have a podium at which to speak! We do not! They've taken the podium and the stage away, and have tossed the majority of Americans into the garbage bin, after robbing us blind.

How do you "debate" with murderers and thieves? How do you "frame a discussion" with mobsters? How do you even talk with rightwing Christian fanatics when they are smelling the power to enforce a state religion?

You have first to get over your fear of them. You have then to ENTIRELY REJECT their terms and their power over you. And, finally, you have to act in concert with all the peaceful people who disagree with fascist rule--the vast majority--and EJECT the bad guys from your community, because they are not civilized; they do not want debate; they want to enforce their will upon you.

How we are going to eject the bad guys is election reform at the local/state level. That is the most feasible plan.

All of the debate on the left about issues and about "how to frame the debate" is okay. It helps people realize just how out of the mainstream the Bushites are. But, again, BEWARE, BEWARE, BEWARE of thinking that minority Bushites are persuadable. They are into power, not persuasion. Raw power. Smashing your face in. They need to be removed from civilized society, and democracy restored.
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LightningFlash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Hear hear! Dean called them the corporate media....Fascism.
That's what they are, never forget it! :toast:
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Again, you are SO correct!
And this part is CRITICAL:

"How we are going to eject the bad guys is election reform at the local/state level. That is the most feasible plan."

AND I WOULD ADD: through funding and campaigning for progressive candidates at the local and state levels in EVERY state! (As Dean is doing!)

IOW, KEEP IT LOCAL, PEOPLE! Work within your precincts, your counties, your state!
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