The connection between election fraud and the "nuclear option"

[TexasLawyer]

Something I was thinking about today:

In the olden days, politicians used to care about public perception of political overreaching. If a party pressed its views too aggressively or pushed ideas that were too far out of the mainstream (e.g., let's go into massive debt to fund tax cuts for the rich and a war we don't need to fight), they were likely to pay the price at the polls. Newt Gingrich was the poster boy for this concept.

Individual Senators and Reps. would vote the way they needed to in order to save their seats-- which sometimes meant voting against their party.

To much of the country, the Republicans now appear to be drunk with power, to be grievously overreaching on almost all the issues-- big and small, to be short on principle (what ever happened to fiscal responsibility, for example?) and to be even shorter on ethics (DeLay, etc...).

If we don't have enough hints already that elections can be and have been rigged, Republican willingness to take the huge step of "going nuclear" and getting rid of the filibuster offers one more hint. "Going nuclear" is political overreaching with a capital O.

From the perspective of those who suspect election fraud, it sure looks like these politicians know that they will not have to worry about getting voted out of office for overreaching. IF they remain Rove's lapdogs their futures in office are secure. Going against the party will mean losing, in the next primary, to a more doctrinaire, lock-step party man.

Also, the Republicans do not seem overly concerned that some day the political tables will turn and Republicans will be the party in the minority. Grover Norquist's recent comments on how Republicans are now a permanent majority, and how Democrats will be like neutered pets that will never again pose a serious political threat or roadblock to Republican objectives, become scarier and scarier in this regard. Where does all this confidence come from?

Do Republicans KNOW that they will never again need the filibuster because they KNOW that, from now on, they own the voting booths?

Anyway, just one more thing to ponder (and to cry about) along with tomorrow's vote.

[Mnemosyne]

1. I agree completely TexasLawyer.

I guess when Grassley spoke the other day he was serious, "when a Senator goes to the altar to vote,".

I remember a judge in WI, back in the 80's, giving a lighter sentence to a pedophile because he felt that "the victim acted seductively". The victim was a 5 year old!! He was one of Phyllis Schaffly's bunch of fruits.

So many of these whackjobs will now be set free to judge the victims, I hate to even contemplate it. Imagine such moral judgments and such psycho(as in Tony Perkins)analysis, even toward children, coming from more judges, thanks to this BS "agreement".


on edit>

Actions will speak louder than words.
Time will tell.

[pacalo]

2. I've been thinking this, too.

I've been thinking for quite awhile about how their exceedingly smug attitudes may be a sign that they've got the elections wrapped up permanently.

As for the filibuster agreement, I believe it was made possible only because the moderates are probably sickened at being bullied by the Dobson religious zealots & by those Republican senators who have been misdirected into appeasing these radicals. I also have a feeling that this administration's mismanagement is also a factor in the division of the Republicans.

I like knowing that Frist lost face with this agreement & that it will possibly lead to further independent thinking in the Senate; hopefully, in matters that could hurt Americans the most.

[Land Shark]

3. it's ALL "going nuclear" on checks and balances

Filibuster is a check and balance against majoritarian action that a large minority REALLY objects to.

E-voting machines toss out the checks and balances of human observation, meaningful recounts, and appeals to the canvassing board upon their implementation.

It's "going nuclear" on checks and balances generally.

[smartvoter]

4. Have had exactly the same thoughts. nt

[cybildisobedience]

5. couldn't agree more

In fact, I've been thinking this for a few years now. ALL their actions are of people who are convinced that they'll never have to pay the piper. They don't care how they look to voters. They have the media in their pocket, convincing everyone of their version of reality, and they have the "votes" to prove that they are in the majority.
Meanwhile, anyone grounded in reality knows that we're in a bizarro world.
Confused yet?
Or just spitting mad because our Dem leadership still doesn't seem to get how serious a problem this is.
Bottom line: We will NEVER be back in power unless the Dems address the issues of a corporate-controlled media and electronic voting machines.
Period.

[m.standridge]

6. I think this is an excellent argument, too--

for the theory that 2004 was rigged in key states.
I guess for me the question now is if there is any hope. Are there enough Electoral votes left in Blue states that have made positive changes post-election. And is there any hope that the White states--Florida, New Mexico, Louisiana, Ohio, Oregon, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Virginia, Nevada--will or have enacted laws to help ensure paper trails and adequate audit procedures?
If the latter is the case, perhaps the GOP can still be "called" on the over-reach attempt(s). If not, they can easily forget about removing the Constitutional fall-backs for minority parties, knowing--as you note--that they never will be one of those again.
One other question: does publication of over-riding indications of fraud on the Internet--and of pending further study and exposure of such fraud--help to sway the extremists or the "in the know" in the GOP from over-reaching on Constitutional fall-backs?
If so, we've come to the right place to stop this.

[Land Shark]

7. When they get "paper trails" even Standridge will believe....

but the fact is that even the pro-DRE MIT study group says paper trails only result in 8% of the errors being caught. So that means 92% of the errors slip through and are crowned ULTRA-reliable and voter-verified.

[Amaryllis]

9. What are white states?

[Amaryllis]

8. I've been thinking the same thing for a long time. They are no longer

responsive to constituent opinion if they know they don't have to consider that to get themselves re-elected. I saw this coming last summer when I first learned about e-vtoing fraud and knew the election would be rigged. I saw all the implications, this being one, and went into this huge depression for guite a long time. It's better now that I have an election reform group to work with because at least I have people to talk to about it and feel like I'm doing something.

[LightningFlash]

10. The difference is the nuclear option was defeated....

America finally woke up and ended the nuclear option. If America was not awake, Senator Frist and his pro-dominionists cons would have used the nuclear option of that there can be no doubt.

Bill Frist and his tiraid of moguls have lost a glaring and obvious war...

The question is will the people wake up in time to defeat election fraud?

Is election fraud next? Will there be enough outcry that the Senate will be forced to conduct investigations? It's all coming down to this...

"The "Republican and "Democratic" co-directors of the polling place were a local fundamentalist preacher and his wife. Thirty-nine of their parisioners from another precinct had cast provisional ballots, which were(illegally) converted to regular ballots and passed through, all 39 for Bush."

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/11489971.htm

http://www.cronus.com/electionfraud

The writing was on the wall, for a long time and coming has the far-right planned to take over the majority and outright steal the process. They pay for, own, and service these machines. How many conflicts of interest are there....Moral values indeed.

[riqster]

11. Without free and fair elections....

this will not be America.

[Land Shark]

17. Worked? They will go nuclear again every time they want some

judges approved. They got at least three this way.

[rigel99]

12. YES YES YES

which is why over 100 election fraud organizations and citizens who run them are spending their FULL TIME on exposing election fraud.

That's why I spend all my time in the election section of DU... which is an awesome overview of what's going on..

Let's all watch COINGATE that may just lead to the unraveling of the presidency....

and fight to expose election fraud whenever possible....

demand paper ballots not vapor ballots

[riqster]

13. Full time, how I wish

It would be excellent to be able to work full time on Voter issues, but alas, there are pesky food & shelter issues to consider. I can't usually do more than 5 hours a day, max.

[Amaryllis]

14. Five hours a day is a LOT! Give yourself credit.

[autorank]

15. I agree that this is one factor; the other is that they're TRUE BELIEVERS

They really think they have the "God Franchise" here and that they have a mission. It's regurgitated "manifest destiny."

What do we do about it.

1) Push as hard as we can locally on election's issues and, at the same time, get DNC into reality about this.

2) Challenge them on the God issue JUST LIKE Ken Salazar did. He kicked their panzy asses in a way that they won't forget. This has to be ongoing. Keep our moderates busy.

With regard to fraud, it can be prevented through multiple measures. DU is cooking with ideas nad actors in this field. Lets get DNC ready to rock and roll in 2006!

Excellent post.

[Einsteinia]

16. You've Hit it on the Head!

From the beginning I noticed these Bushizis do not seem to act like politicians in the traditional sense. They are NOT concillatory or particularly concerned about public perception. No, they are comfortable in their fantacism. Something traditionally kept under wraps if that were one's belief--because of a need to appeal to the mainstream voters.

I saw Lynn Cheney on C-Span a couple of years ago explaining American history. A cold chill went down my spine when she pontificated on how once a really good party was in power it stayed in for a long, long, long time. I was wondering if she had moved from American history over to Ghenis Khan or something.

I've become very poltiical active in election reform, because I've had the gut feeling that these people do not plan on leaving. And now watching their blatant criminality and murderous way, I can see they cannot afford to lose power lest they'll be donning Florida orange jumpsuits.