Don't forget! CSPAN to show Fed Election Reform Comm around 10:30am today

[cyberpj]

10:30 AM EDT
1:00 (est.) LIVE
Forum
Federal Election Reform
Commission on Federal Election Reform
Chellie Pingree , Common Cause
Gracia Hillman , U.S. Election Assistance Commission
The beginning and end of this live program may be earlier or later than the scheduled times.

[Chi]

1. Thank You, I would have missed it. ... n/t

[Andy_Stephenson]

128. Jim Dixon talking about diebold and othere statements

with 14% market share.


Thornburg

Saying there is a problem mixing equipment.

Bob Micel

Jim Dixon your testimopny will be "taken into account."

"Your desires will be well represented"

Tom Daschle

Equal access vs Expanded access.

Dixon wants to point out low voter turnout. It is his belief if it is easy and accessible to his community it will be for the broader community.

[Andy_Stephenson]

129. Great dixon is comparing suitcases with wheels

to voting. Wants 1/01/06 deadline in HAVA to be met Touch Screens)

Needs databases connected at a minimunm connected to medicade.

Aaccessible polling places

wants a firm date

[tommcintyre]

2. Listen to it online at:

http://c-span.org/watch/cspanradio.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CSR&ShowVidDays=30&ShowVidDesc=&ArchiveDays=30

So far, the video feed is NOT available.
http://c-span.org/watch/index.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS&ShowVidDays=30&ShowVidDesc=&ArchiveDays=30

Of course, you can watch it on C-Span if you have it.

[emlev]

76. Is it back on yet? Is the internet video or audio happening?

I can't seem to get it from the link provided.

[kansasblue]

3. updates

please add any interesting things you hear.

[cyberpj]

6. Hi kansasblue

welcome to DU :hi:

am also doing deskwork but will try to report anything amazing.

so far - nothing unexpected.

Common Cause, Chellie Pingree, was very good but said things we all knew.

Now Henry Brady from Berkeley speaking - most are talking about how things are antiquated and need improvements then offering suggestions. It's pretty tame so far.

[tommcintyre]

12. "tame"... or lame?

The gamet of my feeling on it so far:

:mad: :puke: :eyes: :puffpiece: :cry: :banghead: :rant: :thumbsdown:

[cyberpj]

17. you're right - lame does fit. hopefully the next panel w/be livlier.

That Hillman woman pisses me off and took over most of the discussion.

[tommcintyre]

8. Some updates:

Ms. Chellie Pingree, President, Common Cause:

Hon. Gracia Hillman, Chair, U.S. Election Assistance Commission
Generally, technical - HAVA compliance, etc.
--------------------
It must be proven that the vote is legit, etc. (implied - NOT the other way around)

The other groups (that are NOT represented here) MUST be heard (implied - election fraud, etc.)
--------------------
Ms. Kay J. Maxwell, President, League of Women Voters

Talked about voting irregularities (long lines, etc.)

VERY BAD: She said the ability to recount DOES NOT equate a paper trail! Are we being set up for encryption BS?
-------------------
Prof. Henry Brady, Professor of Political Science and Public Policy, University of California , Berkeley

Mentioned security issues more important in 2004 election (accuracy in 2000). said he hoped accuracy wouldn't be forgotten. He seemed to use up his time talking about accuracy, NOT security (very disappointing IMO).

Will update the Q&A in a little bit - so far, nothing substantial, all softball questions - very disappointing, but NOT surprising. ;(

[tommcintyre]

23. Q&A update:

cyberpj is doing a great "play by play" coverage, so I will do a lil' "color commentary" (since I type like a snail) ;)

The Q&A was very revealing - by how it revealed practically NOTHING of real substance.

Carter, Daschle, et. al. threw very vague softballs. It appears they are avoiding "the elephant in the room" (excuse the pun ;) ) - election fraud/ security issues; or they are woefully unprepared, and are NOT "up to speed" on what really happened.

They barely brushed on the need to restore "voter confidence".

Baker made the strongest statement (and most ominous): "We need a national cross-checking system to make sure people don't vote in more than one state. Something John Fund has accused the Dems of doing with all their massive VOTER fraud. :grr: <Fund is coming up in the next panel. Here's his REAL bio info here:>
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x358193#358210

[torque]

4. The Carter-Baker fix/hoodwink is on C-Span now

Carter just spoke calling James A Baker his 2nd-best republican friend!

I can only guess how he feels about the American people, but certainly much less important than his favorite criminal friends.

[cyberpj]

5. Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy.....

What a disappointment.

[Amaryllis]

172. WTF????? Has he been drugged and hypnotized???

[cyberpj]

7. Open floor to Baker/Carter commission for questions now

Gracia Hillman - Election Assistance Commission Chair
is recommending touch screen and optical scanners for all punch-card machines.

Who is she? She is talking about expecting errors and differences in voter registration databases - that each state has it's own system and isn't getting full funding under HAVA to meet 2006 requirements.

Dept of Justice has enforcement responsibility if states don't meet requirements.

Baker and this woman are talking about the long range possibility of networking voting systems to make them compatible so that there could be a nationwide system of registered voters. (!)

He's really pushing this. "Inter-operable" systems and she agrees.

[cyberpj]

10. Now Tom Daschle

wants full implementation of HAVA and how to make that happen.

What are impediments?

Kay Maxwell - League of Women Voters President answers that HAVA is a major first step. Everything happened late and people expected miracles - no simple solutions. They're talking about the total system and if you only fix one element you don't fix the system -- there are other concerns that will still need to be implemented.

Lee Hamilton - commission member - admitting there's a LOT he doesn't know. He feels he's getting too many recommendations and if Congress gets too many they'll be confused and won't respond. He asks for 2 or 3 most important things to do.

Hillman says focus on registration problems. She is most concerned with why the people who don't vote, don't vote. She seems to believe registration is the major problem.

Again, he asks - what are 2 or 3 most important things to do.

Collection of info of progress of HAVA to date.
Problems with voter registration.

Pingree - interrupts to give 3
Full implementation and funding of HAVA
Integrity of the ballot so people have confidence
Ease of voting - people need to be able to be there and get it done.

Baker says short on time and people should ask and respond quickly.

[cosmicdot]

161. fwiw - Lee Hamilton was the 911 commission's vice chair

fyi, he's, also, on the Nixon Advisory Council
http://www.nixoncenter.org/boardac.htm



"Baker straight into Limo, no questions from the press!" - brad

pretty much says it all

[KoKo]

14. Did you hear Hutichinson LOWV...say paper ballots were not an issue?

having a re-countable paper ballot was not in the recommendations of the League of Women Voters?

I wrote it down. She said she wants "21 Century" voting technology. But that paper was not part of the recommendation.

[Andy_Stephenson]

25. Kay is a shill!

She has been against paper against many local chapters of the LWV.

DO NOT TRUST HER!

[KoKo]

72. No....I didn't trust her....Aware of LOWV ........

:D..... Thought it was worth commenting that she hadn't changed her mind about verified paper trail, though.

[Andy_Stephenson]

81. Jim Dixon

a Diebold shill

[tommcintyre]

31. Andy's right... there is open rebellion from many (most?) local chapters

Our local chapter made an impashioned speech for VVPB to restore the voter confidence at our state hearing for VVPB bill.

[FreedomAngel82]

103. Oh good grief

Anybody knows that machine's aren't reliable. They can crash and delete votes etc. The only way we can be sure is paper ballots. I'll be damned if my town ever gets machines.

[Andy_Stephenson]

22. NETWORK!!!

NO F*&^ing way!

[Helga Scow Stern]

159. Gracia Hillman is Conny McCormack's good friend and head of EAC,

another false commission.

[tex-wyo-dem]

9. Oh, boy....

here we go...

Networking systems is exactly what we DON'T want. Networking opens the door wide open for hacking the ENTIRE nationwide vote count databases, not just pockets in specific states that have the systems set up that way already.

BAD BAD BAD IDEA!!!

[cyberpj]

11. I know! I gasped when she said that. eom.

[Amaryllis]

173. It's the Borg, you guys! The Hive! Ahhhh....I can't stand this.

[cyberpj]

13. The board is asking the questions to the testifiers....

Shirley Malcom is asking about research. Who does it, how are they funded, is it enough?

HIllman - says there are bits and pieces but nothing countrywide - not enough, anecdotes only - not enough big studies --she says they tried hard to get research dollars but congress gave little.

why is this one woman taking the major part of the questions?!

Betty Castor is asking about online voting possibilities - Hillman replies that people are too afraid of HACKING right now!

[cyberpj]

15. Spencer Overton asks about monitoring

where we are, where we need to be.

How do we monitor to insure compliance?

No standards across states but an ongoing commission should be watching and writing reports and spotlighting problems.

Hillman jumps in again saying they have always requested reports.

10-15 minute break then second panel will discuss access and integrity.

[cyberpj]

16. 10 minute break then discuss access and integrity. eom.

[cyberpj]

18. OMG! They're showing DeLay at the NRA during the break!! eom.

[rumpel]

20. Disgusting!

[rumpel]

19. FYI Gracie Hillman

Gracia M. Hillman was nominated by President George W. Bush on October 3, 2003 and confirmed by unanimous consent of the United States Senate on December 9, 2003 to serve a two-year term on the U.S. Election Assistance Commission (EAC). Ms. Hillman was elected Vice Chair of the EAC at the agency's first public meeting on March 23, 2004.

Throughout her career, Commissioner Hillman has effectively handled both domestic and international issues. Her areas of expertise include nonprofit management, public policy and program development, political services, the interests and rights of women and minorities, community affairs and election related matters, including voting rights.

http://www.eac.gov/hillman.asp?format=none

[cyberpj]

26. thanks rumpel - even without that I would have bet that she had been

appointed by Bush.

[Andy_Stephenson]

21. What Hipocracy MR DELAY!

Protecting the Constitution.

MY ASS!

[cyberpj]

24. Yeah - I like how he said going hunting was how boys learned

what it is to be a man!

ps - how are you doing Andy - don't really know you but you've been added to the prayer list over here for a while now.

[Andy_Stephenson]

27. Feeling a bit under the weather but I did a burst of work

and it tired me out.

Thanks for asking.

[cyberpj]

28. Enough said. Stay strong and positive. eom.

[cyberpj]

29. "God bless the NRA." now we're finally back to the panel! eom.

[Andy_Stephenson]

30. Watch he is gonna push Votehere.

look for it.

John Fund is smarmy!

James Baker is a smug bastard.

[Andy_Stephenson]

33. He swings he bats

and here it is.

The pitch....

1. All voters have ID.
Free Photo ID's

Bullshit on Absentee ballots in WA

The ineptness of the Elections office was the reason

[Andy_Stephenson]

34. Crime Watch?

in "In voting crime"


Here comes VoteHere!

Watch it!

Purple Finger

National ID

[Andy_Stephenson]

39. Colleen McAndrews.

Voter ID

Key overarching thing

Federalize or state admin of elections

Must be left to states

Mentions LA as largest jurisdiction

Oh she is the pitchwoman for electronic machines

Reminder she is with the Ahnold Legal Team

HAVA Funding...Fund it!

National Holiday (rotsa ruck)

Veterans day as voting day

Uniform poll closing

Voter ID discussion

"Time has come to solve paranoia"

[Andy_Stephenson]

40. "We need to have confidence"

"Convenience voting"?


South Africa

Iraq

20% Absentee

Pushing Voter ID Future Technologies.

Need to have ID.

We currently have "Honor system"

Skeptical results


She is pushing ID's hard.

[cyberpj]

32. John Fund - Wall Street Journal - says

you can't tell where incompetence ends and actual fraud begins.

Uses Washington State governors race as an example.

Got to go pick up a friend right now - hope someone else can take over any notes here....

Later taters!

[Wiley50]

35. I'm here and tuned in now

I'll grab on where I can

Take it easy, Andy
You'll need that strength on Wednesday

Wiley

[rumpel]

36. Collen McAndrews

Former member of Carter-Ford Commission

Difficult to nationalize

One size does not fit all (states)

[cyberpj]

37. Yes, I have to go but first - ONE SIZE DOES NOT FIT ALL??

So why is every American tied to form 1040 for taxes?!

They manage to collect and trace all of those but we can't get a uniform and traceable paper ballot!?

Ok. gotta go pick up a friend but I'll Tivo this program for later viewing. So far it's pretty disappointing.

Sigh.........

[elehhhhna]

80. Yeah. ATM machines seem to work the same worldwide. Hmmm.

[rumpel]

38. Lack of money is the single most problem, recommends national holiday

says: Veterans Day

Integrity rather than access

uniform poll closing (important in the West)

[Wiley50]

42. It's pretty sad

when you have to plead incompetence
to save yourself from fraud

But I guess we're really getting to them
or they wouldn't be trying franticly
to cover up

Wiley

[Andy_Stephenson]

44. Arturo Vargas

He is the token dissenter.

Careful implementation of VVPAT

Bullshit!

If we don't have a paper ballot it ain't woth the paper it is written on!

[Andy_Stephenson]

46. Passing funding of HAVA

going for...

Voting Rights Act

Extend it Sect 5

And language requirement

Free from Discrimination

Top Priorities.

Opposes photo Id

increases dis-enfranchisement

[Andy_Stephenson]

48. VVPT

VVPA Arturo

WTF

Aye carumba!

Pushing the DRE angle

VVPT
Watch the language

But lets keep our eye on the ball


Voter Verified Paper Ballots.

[Andy_Stephenson]

49. Why are no TRUE activists on this Panel???!!!???!!!

This is a SHAM!

[Kip Humphrey]

59. The RNC has come out to play! Are we ready???

[Kip Humphrey]

60. If you don't count the paper, its usefulness is restricted to a roll of

disposable, perforated little squares

[rumpel]

41. Integrity. Voter Identification important especially with new technology

and places suggested such as grocery stores etc.

[rumpel]

43. Arturo Vargas. Latino Voters.

[rumpel]

45. Full HAVA funding. Language assistance.

he is a point 8, but someone here was speaking to me and I missed some...

[rumpel]

47. Voter ID requirement: talks on abuse to intimidate leads to supression

[Andy_Stephenson]

50. John Fund

Greater ballot security

States Require ID

Colleen

Shills for ID a barrier to voting.

PFFFFFFT

[rumpel]

51. Baker to Fund: Difference State vs. national ID

[rumpel]

52. Barbara Arnwine

Compliance problems on Sec 5. and Sec 203 provide bi-lingual ballots in minority areas.

[rumpel]

54. my dog needs to go out. I'll be right back...sorry

[Andy_Stephenson]

53. Indirect Poll Tax

in GA there are only 56 DMV offices

139 counties.

Many issues surrounding getting an ID.

Good Job Barbara

[Boredtodeath]

71. Correction

50 DMV offices statewide, 159 counties. Those are the actual facts.

[Andy_Stephenson]

164. thanks I was trying to type and listen

at the same time.

:hi:

[rumpel]

55. I'm back. btw Since when is Fund an authority on voting issues?

[rumpel]

57. Arnwine: Ex-felons should be allowed to vote in federal elections

[Andy_Stephenson]

58. welllll

:puke:

[Andy_Stephenson]

56. Ralph Munro on Felons right to vote.

John Fund "loosen up the rules in Florida."

Barbara "if a felon has completed their sentence they should be restored.

EX FELONS should be allowed to vote"

[rumpel]

61. Spencer Overton: percentage of fraudulent voters? and on election official

fraud possibility and systems

[rumpel]

62. HA! Fund on open source coding a must.

[Andy_Stephenson]

67. Watch what he said Rumpel

He said something to the effect of our machines were not world class...but there are new systems. He was talking VoteHere.

Watch the language they are using.

They are going to say Voter Verified Paper Audit Trail if they do they are talking VoteHere.

Don't be fooled

Voter Verified Paper Ballots

[Andy_Stephenson]

63. Oh John Fund is talking his book again.

Election systems did not meet third world standards.

He is pushing VoteHere.

Transparancy, opensource, If he says VVPT...

or anything other that a Voter Verified Paper Ballot he is our enemy.



Evoting up next.

[tommcintyre]

69. Thanks for all the great commentary Andy! OTHERS READ IN PLEASE:

Your experience helps us all to know who the "players" really are.

I've directed two threads (from GD and GD Pol) here, so keep it up if your not too tired. :D

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3497366#3498007

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1730739

Others here: kick these threads so we can "fill in" more DUers.

Thanks

[marions ghost]

64. coming in late on this...

but from what I can see it's all about fraudulent voters and voter IDs, not much about fraud perpetrated by election officials and voting machine companies.

John Fund, political reporter for Wall Street Journal--seems to be only one calling for transparency and greater auditing in the election process...

Recess now. Convene at 1:30 et

[rumpel]

65. break until 1:30 EST

[rumpel]

66. So far the majority of discussion concentrated on Voter Fraud and not

Election Fraud.

[meganmonkey]

68. Right, cuz the voters are all cheaters!!!

:puke:

btw - thanks to everyone posting about this!! Can't watch C-span at work today...maybe later things will slow down at work but for now I really appreciate being able to peek in on this thread.
:)

[mod mom]

95. Thugs spin is on voter fraud over election fraud. Here is my take:

The rethugs are hell bent on showing voter fraud by dems instead of what really happened with election fraud. The one party rule allows them to focus on registering voters fro crack cocaine, while dismissing all the other allegations of fraud in which affidavits were filed. We are lead to believe the long lines in high dem areas, machine vote switching, misinformation campaigns, confusion in last minute directives by SOSs, disparity in acceptance of provisional ballots/registrations, false homeland security threats, are all democratic ploys to cast attention away from the "real problem" : widespread crack cocaine abuse among democrats. Right.

We heard the same thing at the House Administration Hearing in Cols. Spin, spin spin. Lies lies, lies.

[SmileMaker]

74. David Dill is on now

[tommcintyre]

70. HEY! Shouldn't we be recommending this thread? So others can...

read the commentary about the speakers, so they know what's REALLY going on.

[AtLiberty]

73. If we're going to disenfranchise felons from the election process...

...let's start by disenfranchising felons who design software for electronic voting companies.

[Andy_Stephenson]

165. Jeff Dean could not vote...

but he could program GEMS.

[Kip Humphrey]

171. Who better to disenfranchise voters than the disenfranchised?!!!

[Andy_Stephenson]

75. Up First after the break

Jim Dixon he is late

David Dill up first David Dill

[Andy_Stephenson]

77. YAY David Dill Voter Verified

Paper Ballots!

Give him an award!

[Andy_Stephenson]

78. God Love him!

Yay David Dill! YOU ROCK!

[marions ghost]

89. David Dill said "paper ballots"...

:applause:

David Dill--Computer Science Professor at Stanford said:

"precinct count optical scan systems" are reliable and cheaper
"paperless e-voting technology is fundamentally hostile to election transparency."

He was right on target--great summary from Prof. Dill. Send him positive email.

[Andy_Stephenson]

79. Evoting is

"Fundamentally hostile to Democracy"

[SmileMaker]

82. Woah!!!! Great stuff David Dill

He's not blind, but he was certainly blunt!

[SmileMaker]

84. I wonder how much this 'disabled' guy is getting paid to shill n/t

[Andy_Stephenson]

92. Much

I would imagine.

[tommcintyre]

87. Yes... except he implied that Bush won at the end

I was afraid of that. He said the only reason this election is not under litigation is that the magin of victory was greater than the margin of error.

Too bad... but otherwise a great talk.

A short bio/evaluation of him here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x358193#358217

[emlev]

85. Is this David Dill now talking about disabled voters?

I can only get the audio online, not the video, so I can't tell.

[emlev]

86. Oh, they just said Jim Dixon n/t

[Andy_Stephenson]

83. Jim Dixon

2002 Standards are a sham

[SmileMaker]

88. 100s of thousands of disabled incidents not in system?

I'm glad he mentioned long lines in OH, but I'm not certain who's side this guy is on.

[Andy_Stephenson]

91. Diebolds

Side....for a long long time.

[flpoljunkie]

94. Disabled seemed focused on ease of DRE use, not it's lack of transparency.

What does it matter if you can easily vote, if you cannot be sure your vote has been accurately counted--disabled or not.

[emlev]

96. I think there are all kinds of incidents not in system

The Election Protection Coalition staff had been told their pay ended election day. They were later promised pay for long enough to shut down their offices, but in my experience it would have depended upon the goodwill of individual staff members for the stacks of incidents that didn't get entered on election day to be entered into the system. I suspect lots of them never made it in.

[Andy_Stephenson]

90. Jim why don't you talk about your

cozy deals with diebold.

Instead of Living and Dying or voting.

Points he wants to empahsize

enforce 84 Accessible polling place act

93 Motor Voter Law

People calling for paper trails

PAPER BALLOTS NOW! JIM

What a ruse!
A cheap trick by pulling out a register reciept.

Dixon is shilling for Diebold.

Talking re 4300 votes. It was an old machine!

Saying with new machines it would have not happened


Reccomendations

DOJ Neeeds more funding to enforce disability access in voting

[vanboggie]

97. Leave it to states?

Been there, done that. Cruella and Blackheart.
Baker makes my skin crawl.

[vanboggie]

101. Oops this should be under Thornberg statement

I get so angry I don't pay attention to where I'm posting, LOL.

[Andy_Stephenson]

93. Ron Thornberg said in regards to internet voting

in Kansas he said "We won't be first but we won't be last either"

[Andy_Stephenson]

98. 8 months to fully implement

HAVA in Kansas.

WTF!!!!

I wanna see the

[BradBlog]

99. Also LIVE BLOGGING the HEARINGS at BRAD BLOG!

Just caught your thread here. Will link up!

BRAD BLOG Live Blogging (with boots on the ground) at:
http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001332.htm

Brad
The BRAD BLOG: http://www.Bradblog.com
VELVET REVOLUTION: http://www.VelvetRevolution.us
The BRAD SHOW on RAW RADIO, Saturday Nights, 7p-11p

[tommcintyre]

124. I'll link it up to the other two threads

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3497366

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1730739

[SmileMaker]

100. OH NO :( I wanted to hear more.

Is this on anywhere else? House is in order?

[SmileMaker]

104. It's back on C-Span after prayers and pledge of allegiance in House!

I didn't realize that House started w/a prayer. I thought church and state were supposed to be separate.

[SmileMaker]

116. deleted

[rumpel]

102. What happened? C-Span changed programming.

[emlev]

105. online audio is still going (couldn't get video, though) n/t

[tommcintyre]

106. THE AUDIO IS STILL ON THE INTERNET HERE:

http://c-span.org/watch/cspanradio.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CSR&ShowVidDays=30&ShowVidDesc=&ArchiveDays=30

[Andy_Stephenson]

107. Non Partisan voting officials

I am for that

[Andy_Stephenson]

108. Rick

Hasen...talking sense except that little quip about

DRE's

[marions ghost]

138. Rick Hasen, Loyola U Law Prof

said that because of extreme partisanship and our decentralized and inconsistent system we will have more razor-close elections and possible electoral "meltdown" because of big problem in voter confidence. Also concerned about increasing amount of litigation after elections.
Recommends 3 reforms:
1. registration reform, universal voter ID, use fingerprints, etc. Says restoring faith in elections outweighs privacy concerns.
2. ensure non-partisan election administration (prevent SOS being a partisan) State Board of Elections official should be chosen by 75% vote of state legislature.
3. Courts should entertain PRE-election judicial review, as post election is prohibitive and expensive.

[Andy_Stephenson]

109. Baker to Thornburg

Statewide voter registration database

Would you use it if the Fed paid for it.

[Andy_Stephenson]

110. Concept of states working together

is a good thing

[flpoljunkie]

117. Rethugs, champions for the disabled & their right to use paperless DREs!

How convenient!

[fedupinBushcountry]

111. Brad Blog

FLASH: CONYERS OFFICE OUTRAGED AT TENOR OF HEARINGS!...TO RELEASE STATEMENT AT END OF DAY...DEVELOPING..."

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001332.htm

[cyberpj]

125. FLASH: CONYERS OFFICE OUTRAGED AT TENOR OF HEARINGS!...

FLASH: CONYERS OFFICE OUTRAGED AT TENOR OF HEARINGS!...TO RELEASE STATEMENT AT END OF DAY...DEVELOPING..."


http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001333.htm

[Andy_Stephenson]

112. Carter says paper ballot/printout

Thornburg says clearly...He has concerns about voter verified paper trails.

Asshole

[Andy_Stephenson]

113. Opposes Audit Trail

here comes vote here.

Fuck Paper Trails

Paper Ballots.

Future Tech indeed!

[Andy_Stephenson]

115. Jimmy says paper ballots again!

Yay Jimmy

[Andy_Stephenson]

118. Ron Thornburg "no to voter verified paper trails"

OK Ron great! Then we will have Voter Verified Paper Ballots.

[flpoljunkie]

119. Of course he does! He's a Rethug! Baker again pushing nation voter ID!

The handwriting on the wall...

[marions ghost]

127. Thornburgh (R Kansas) also said

he was against VVPT, (much less VVPB). He said because VVPT
1) would "set disabled voters apart"
2) does not want to see a "required" paper trail so that it wouldn't affect new voting technologies in the future

He is not very enthusiastic about the idea of all states being required to have interconnected statewide voter registration databases because Kansas would have to revamp their new system. Kansas has a new statewide database, but doesn't want to network with other states, is the way I read this position.

[starmaker]

114. back on

thornburg sos kansas

[vanboggie]

120. thornburg soB Kansas n/t

[flpoljunkie]

121. Has anybody asked Professor David Dill a question?

[cyberpj]

126. not that I've heard yet. eom.

[SmileMaker]

122. I say that maybe we SHOULD handcuff this SOS from KS

Thornbergh... what a shill! Thank you Pres. Carter for asking him a good question about paper ballots.

[cyberpj]

123. According to BradBlog - also blogging on this event - PROTESTS

PROTESTS OUTSIDE HEARINGS, NOT COVERED ON CSPAN:

Signs and Baker puppet

"Baker Fixes Elections"

"Baker Resign!"

"Say No to James Baker"

"Oxymoron James Baker + Election Reform"

"Baker - We Remember! Florida 2000! No More Stolen Elections"

"Public Hearings? When can the public testify?"

"Make Voting a Constitutional Right"

"Secure Elections Demand Paper Ballots!"

"Democracy Demands Non-Partisan Election Boards!"

"Don't Privatize Democracy!"

"Protect Voters Rights, Stop Disenfranchisment!"

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001332.htm

[marions ghost]

153. To all the protestors

:applause:

[cyberpj]

130. Jim Dickson testifying for the disabled - but not for me on v.v.p.b.s

Yes, he is blind and blunt but he doesn't speak for me when he says he is NOT for voter verified paper ballots.

I have M.S. and would appreciate the wheelchair access and perhaps some preferential treatment if lines are excessive but I have no problem asking for braille printouts for the blind voters so that VVPB can be required.

ps - what do ATMs do as far as receipts for ATM activity? I know they have braille touch pads, yes?

[cyberpj]

137. makes a good point about more errors caught with AUDIO though. eom.

[Andy_Stephenson]

131. Ralph Munro

is smarmy watch him.

[cyberpj]

132. Elected officials outperform appointed officials re election boards

Well, DUH!.......

[Andy_Stephenson]

133. Benjamin Lander

To Dill

Biometric identification?!?

How we can establish identity using brain waves?

Should we have a task force where people bring us cutting edge tech?

Some tech may make it obsolete.


Dill...it is hard to know what is coming down the pipe

problem in decision making. Official often don't have propper advice.

Policy makers need to seek out advice of experts. Seek out advice.

David is a rockstar.

[cyberpj]

135. Biometrics scare me and yes, David Dill is a rockstar! Woo-hoo! eom.

[flpoljunkie]

136. Another question for Dill regarding what can we do to trust the results

other than requiring a voter verified paper ballot.

He basically said there is no other current way to verify the results.

[Andy_Stephenson]

139. Raul Yzguirre/Shirley Malcom

He is disabled with parkinsons. He is going to defer to Dixon

Shirley Malcom

Talking back about technology said "Black Box"

DRE's with or without paper how can we believe without verification.

Dixon

There are sseveral things that are being looked at. This process can take years and yearws. We don't want to wait. Dixon just talked up populex.

Dill says

we are facing deadlines.

Certification aside. He hasn't seen anything trustworthy without paper.

"Audio verification is interesting...catching errors is one thing being able to audit afterweads is another."

He SAID VOTHERE! But only 1 scientist is for it.

[cyberpj]

134. Benjamin Ladner - FER member asking Dill now -

do we need a group to inform FE groups on technical issues on the horizon?

Dill says the issues are controversial and answers would depend on the presenters bias.

Go to extra effort to seek out advice on technology and be alert to the problems involved.

[cyberpj]

140. David Dill again -

Up against deadlines for purchasing equipment to be certified

Haven't seen anything trustworthy enough without PAPER!

Being able to audit the system is the most important item.

A system must be easy to use, understand and trust.

[flpoljunkie]

144. Yes, routine, mandatory and random audits. GOP does not want this!

But it is absolutely required if we are to trust the black boxes--along with the voter-verified paper ballots, of course.

[cyberpj]

141. I can't get over how many are pushing this shared registration info! eom.

[Andy_Stephenson]

142. cut the voter rolls

dramatically

[BradBlog]

143. BRAD BLOG FLASH: FLASH: CONYERS OFFICE OUTRAGED AT TENOR OF HEARINGS!

FLASH: CONYERS OFFICE OUTRAGED AT TENOR OF 'ELECTION REFORM' HEARINGS!
TO RELEASE STATEMENT AT END OF DAY...

The office of Congressman John Conyers (D-MI), ranking minority member of U.S. House Judiciary Committee and longtime Election Reform champion tells The BRAD BLOG that Conyers has expressed outrage at the tenor of today's hearings and the morphing of election irregularities/fraud issues into Voter registration/fraud issues!

We'll note that, despite having compiled 102-pages of evidence on Election Irregularities in OH, Conyers was not invited to participate in these hearings though he has recently written a letter to Carter volunteering to help in any way while expressing disappointment about Baker's position as co-chair.

Full statement to come later today!

...DEVELOPING...

FLASH URL: http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001333.htm

BRAD BLOG LIVE BLOGGING OF HEARINGS:
http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001332.htm

---
Brad Friedman
THE BRAD BLOG - The uprising continues...
http://www.BradBlog.com

[SmileMaker]

150. I agree, it was pretty outrageous that Conyers and others

who have been involved were not included. I wonder if the big evoting machine companies helped to sponsor this attention getting spectacle.

[Andy_Stephenson]

166. I wonder if Diebold Sequoia and ES&S are sponsoring the

Luncheon.

[tommcintyre]

151. Brad, will you cover the news conference at 4pm et somehow?

I don't think it will be covered on C-Span.

[garybeck]

145. SUMMARY please?

If someone could be so kind as to summarize what happened today I'd really appreciate it. I'm having trouble sifting through 141 posts in this thread.

If we can boil it down to a summary we can make it into an article an get it posted on Solar Bus and probably Free Press as well, and VoterUnite! will probably put it in their news.

Feel free to contact me by email gary(at)solarbus.org about this, or just post a summary here in DU and we'll take it from there.

Thank you all, for all your great work

Gary

------------------------------------
the solar bus
ELECTION JUSTICE CENTER
your home for updated information on the fight for democracy in America
http://election.solarbus.org
------------------------------------

[Andy_Stephenson]

148. We are so

screwed.

[FULL_METAL_HAT]

154. Andy you are too polite...

Did you see how sweetly they both raped and pillaged the old lady of democracy???

They really "let the eagle soar" for this one! (kinda like "jumping the shark" for the BFEE!)

Poor Carter.

And a true slap in the face for everyone who knows whats actually what.

Oh the humanity!

[KoKo]

157. Yes..........they are planning on co-opting the efforts we are trying to

make in our states for reform...which is really hot here in NC. They were getting worried and put together this crap commission quickly.

What a sham. Disgusting. And that they are so blatent about it, is the most worrysome. Sticking a finger in the eye of everyone who has worked on this issue since 2000 and ignoring the activists.

And, it will put the "anti-reformists" in the DLC wing of the party on alert to try to stop us. Not that they weren't already alerted.

Let's hope the "truth" will out. They are not used to strong "push back."

[marions ghost]

146. press conference on this at 4 pm

C-span covering? Break til then.

[cyberpj]

147. It's over for now - Press conference announced some time after 4pm.

Baker is taking the group to meet privately - presumably to discuss what all happened and was said.

Over and out.

[FULL_METAL_HAT]

149. Wow! Was that for real???

I didn't catch the whole thing but what parts I did catch made me wish old Jimmy is too senile to realize what's going on around him (and sadly, I don't think thats the case!)

That was your real old-fashioned rigged-commission LIVE on the TEEVEE.

[Amaryllis]

174. How can you explain him going along with this? It makes NO sense...

unless, as I said earlier, they knocked him out and made him drink koolaid before he woke up?

[rumpel]

152. Why do they take so long to hold the next hearing? I know citizensact.org

sent Jimmy Carter the "Who Got Glitched" video/dvd.
So he must know the frustrations of many.

[FULL_METAL_HAT]

155. You mean how do they get away with it?? n/t

[rumpel]

156. Cspan has not placed the hearing in the archived videos yet. I have to

hear it again. There was so much distraction around.
But overall, what I saw, it stank to high heaven.

[marions ghost]

160. yes I'm going to look at it again too

I'm not surprised at the efforts to evade and obfuscate...

to be continued

[meganmonkey]

158. Thank you all for posting your observations!

Couldn't watch at work today - too busy. But I definitely appreciate all your posts/comments!

Thanks!

:toast:

[rumpel]

162. pleasure. I will try to find the archive link on Cspan. When I find it I

will post it.
I am disappointed of the hearing. I guess we will all have to submit the collected material to them and request Rep. Conyers to be included in June at latest.

:think:

we can't let them whitewash

(on edit corrected typo)

[cyberpj]

167. You're welcome - wish we'd had better info to post though...... eom.

[Coexist]

163. thanks for the running commentary Andy!

and I got your shout out on Brad's show!!

[Number_6]

168. Go to Hell, Baker

What if we just ignore him? We got what we expected, we know more of the tactics of the faux reformers now, they did what they did in 2000, introduced a lot of noise to drown out the signal. History doesn't necessarily repeat itself, people are a lot angrier than in 2000, angry in part about 2000 in hindsight.

[MelissaB]

169. Thank you all for the notes.

I just got home from work and read this thread. It's so good to know what is happening, but now I just want to say lots of very bad words after reading this.

:spank:

[Name removed]

170. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[loudsue]

175. "Beware of the likes of Koko1"

What in the hell does THAT mean??

I PERSONALLY know KoKo01...she's been working her a** off in North Carolina to get VOTER VERIFIED PAPER BALLOTS, and has been around DU here for YEARS!

What do you mean "beware the likes of KoKo01?? :grr: She's on OUR side!!!

damn

:kick:

[Name removed]

178. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[loudsue]

179. Please provide links related to WATR, whatever the hell that is, and

give proof about her talking about cults, and/or passing around cult information.

The KoKo01 that I know and love is NOT the person you are paranoid about here.

So....'splain yourself, with references.

:kick:

[Name removed]

176. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Coexist]

177. I'm kicking this thread up to the top again...

because it's nice to see a thread in this forum with so many replies. It's been awhile since there was this much action here(notwithstanding our lovely KOEB ladies of course -but that's a little different!)