Teresa Heinz Kerry "openly skeptical about results from November election"

[Land Shark]

Toward the middle of the Seattle Post-Intelligencer linked article below:

COUNTING THE VOTES: Heinz Kerry is openly skeptical about results from November's election, particularly in sections of the country where optical scanners were used to record votes.

"Two brothers own 80 percent of the machines used in the United States," Heinz Kerry said. She identified both as "hard-right" Republicans. She argued that it is "very easy to hack into the mother machines."

"We in the United States are not a banana republic," added Heinz Kerry. She argued that Democrats should insist on "accountability and transparency" in how votes are tabulated.

"I fear for '06," she said. "I don't trust it the way it is right now."

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/connelly/214744_joel07.html

[FloridaPat]

1. Too bad she was born outside the US. She would have made a

good presidental candidate. Guts and brains about what is going on. This is the first Democrat we've heard this from isn't it?

[Goldeneye]

2. Wow, that is fricking awesome.

If she's saying things like that she knows and so does Kerry. If they know all the top democrats know.

[pbartch]

88. yeh...they "know" but THEY GOTTA DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

Bush never should have been inaugurated. Why wasn't he stopped?

[GoSolar]

3. Good that she is speaking out about this.

Some action would be good too.

[meganmonkey]

4. Ooooh! Go Teresa!

I wish this wasn't jsut a local columnist. I googled it and this is the only paper running it.

It's great to hear her say it!!

:bounce:

[tanyev]

6. Don't worry--

The RWingers will be all over it shortly.

[Stand and Fight]

5. Nice to see we're not crazy after all...

Well, in saying that, I am referring to those who ardently believe that this past election was hijacked from A to Z. Especially eerie to see her saying that she fears for 2006 and that she doesn't trust the way it is under the current system... We've got a whole hell of a lot of work to do people.

[BeFree]

10. Oh, we're crazy alright

"If we weren't all crazy, we would go insane." A J Buffet quote, eh?

The insane people are those who believe nothing happened and that the election was on the up-and-up.

We are crazy with fear about what will happen in 2006, the insane think they have nothing to worry about.

We do have work to do and it is nice to see that at least some of our leaders are not insane.

[jbnow]

56. Or even better : Crazy on a ship of fools

"Crazy on a ship of fools, crazy on a ship of fools
Turn this boat around, back to my loving ground"

Robert Plant

[rodeodance]

103. off topic-but I have read that was no such thing as a 'ship of fools"--

[tavalon]

86. We were not crazy

but why do you require her or any one else to say it for it to be so?

[mod mom]

7. I LOVE a woman who states her mind! Hopefully she will impact

her husband!

[ginnyinWI]

59. so you actually believe that he doesn't know. n/t

[mod mom]

62. I believe he now knows, thanks to the House Judiciary Dems, but the impact

I am hoping for comes from Teresa willingness to speak about the election.

[Land Shark]

8. I love men and women who state their mind

and I love even more people who don't punish other people for their opinions even if they disagree. Those are the folks who actually love freedom. The folks harassing the media every time they see an inference that doesn't seem to support their side are very much against freedom. (You don't need freedom to support the powers-that-be)

[mod mom]

9. Got me there Land shark!

[understandinglife]

11. THK: "We must be totally committed to this journey ..."

In The Northwest: Teresa Heinz Kerry hasn't lost her outspoken way

By JOEL CONNELLY

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/connelly/214744_joel07.html

An informed perspective:

"Think about last year," she said. "Once John had his nomination, the Republicans spent $90 million to destroy his reputation."

She cited dirty tricks used in the campaign to mobilize what the religious right called "Values Voters."

"In West Virginia, John was going to burn Bibles," she said. "It's not 'values.' It's outright lies."

Very important advice:

"We have to develop a discipline for this party, so the people of this country know more clearly what it is to be a Democrat," she said.

"Basically, we are at a crux, a crossroads right now," Heinz Kerry said. "It's no place for self-indulgence. It's no place for looking back. We must be totally committed to this journey ... to believe again, to hope again."

Peace.


PROVE MY VOTE COUNTS

[mod mom]

54. Teresa, DO IT FOR THE KIDS! Believe me I am tired. Tired of the ridicule

Tired of the constant outrage. Tired of how my life has changed. Tired of feeling hate. But what keeps me focused when I want to give up hope is remembering that I have 2 young children that I brought into this world. How could I not fight for what is right? I refuse to give up and we need our leaders that are aware of what happened, to also refuse to give up.

These are not Republicans. These are dangerous theo-cons who are ruining our planet with their environmental policies, our world by creating more instability and causing the proliferation of terrorism, our economy by their war mongering, outsourcing, outrageous deficit, and disregard for social policies and individual lives. We have the responsibility of leaving our world a better place to the youth.

[merbex]

68. Teresa tells it like it is!

She and Barbara Boxer rock

Guys- take a lesson from these ladies

[Bill Bored]

12. Well, to the extent that money could help solve the problem, she has it!

But then why isn't there more of a privately funded investigation going on by someone like her or Soros? Or is there? (No reason to tell us about that yet. You'd first want to find the smoking gun. Perhaps they are close to finding one?)

THK made reference to fascism in her speech at the DNC. It wasn't American fascism, but her point was that she knows it when she sees it. That's one advantage of not being born here; to most of us, this is unthinkable!

If she can dig up some Republican friends of her late husband (hopefully, she won't have to do this literally) and enlist their support, we may get somewhere with all this. If the smoking gun is not brought to the public's attention in a bi-partisan manner, half the people will simply not believe it!

Speaking of money, I've become somewhat pessimistic about the weakness of some of the verified voting legislation in Congress and elsewhere. But if we do have voter-verified paper "records", I would hope that all it would take would be MONEY to audit them and find the truth! One of the biggest objections to these bills is that the candidates would have to PAY for much of the hand counting. But cash is something the Dems had in abundance in 2004, and what better way is there to spend it? So why didn't they use some to get a fair recount in Ohio or some other key races besides the WA Gov's?

What's the latest on your suit, Land Shark?

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Oreo]

14. Good copy and paste from the other thread

[progressoid]

15. "oposed to mindless banter"??

really? How about typing something original rather than cut/paste.

[mod mom]

16. In Ohio, the lines were 4-10 hours long in heavily Democratic (inner city,

liberal college campuses) THIS WAS BLATANT SUPPRESSION! THIS IS UN-AMERICAN. NOT ONLY DID THIS VIOLATE HAVA, BUT IF YOU EVER READ THE CONSTITUTION, YOU WOULD BE AWARE OF THE EQUAL PROTECTION CLAUSE!

and were you aware of this:

20 Amazing Facts About Voting in the USA
      Did you know....
      1.80% of all votes in America are counted by only two companies: Diebold and ES&S.
      http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/042804Landes/04280 04landes.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diebold
      2.There is no federal agency with regulatory authority or oversight of the U.S. voting machine industry. http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0916-04.htm
      http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/042804Landes/04280 04landes.html
      3.The vice-president of Diebold and the president of ES&S are brothers. http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/private_company.html
      http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/042804Landes/04280 04landes.html
      4.The chairman and CEO of Diebold is a major Bush campaign organizer and donor who wrote in 2003 that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."
      http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/07/28/sunday/main63 32436.shtml
      http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1647886
      5.Republican Senator Chuck Hagel used to be chairman of ES&S. He became Senator based on votes counted by ES&S machines.
      http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2004/03/0 03_200.html
      http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/031004Fitrakis/031 1004fitrakis.html
      6.Republican Senator Chuck Hagel, long-connected with the Bush family, was recently caught lying about his ownership of ES&S by the Senate Ethics Committee.
      http://www.blackboxvoting.com/modules.php?name=News& p;file=article&sid=26
      http://www.blackboxvoting.com/modules.php?name=News& p;file=article&s i d=26 http://www.hillnews.com/news/012903/hagel.aspx http://www.onlisareinsradar.com/archives/000896.php
      7.Senator Chuck Hagel was on a short list of George W. Bush's vice-presidential candidates. http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_28/b3689130.htm http://theindependent.com/stories/052700/new_hagel27.html
      8.ES&S is the largest voting machine manufacturer in the U.S. and counts almost 60% of all U.S. votes. http://www.essvote.com/HTML/about/about.html
      http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/042804Landes/04280 04landes.html
      9.Diebold's new touch screen voting machines have no paper trail of any votes. In other words, there is no way to verify that the data coming out of the machine is the same as what was legitimately put in by voters. http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm
      http://www.itworld.com/Tech/2987/041020evotestates/pfin ndex.html
      10.Diebold also makes ATMs, checkout scanners, and ticket machines, all of which log each transaction and can generate a paper trail.
      http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm
      http://www.diebold.com/solutions/default.htm
      11.Diebold is based in Ohio. http://www.diebold.com/aboutus/ataglance/default.htm
      12.Diebold employed 5 convicted felons as senior managers and developers to help write the central compiler computer code that counted
      50% of the votes in 30 states.
      http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,61640,00.html
      http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/10/301469.shtml
      13.Jeff Dean, Diebold's Senior Vice-President and senior programmer on Diebold's central compiler code, was convicted of 23 counts of felony theft in the first degree.
      http://www.chuckherrin.com/HackthevoteFAQ.htm#how
      http://www.blackboxvoting.org/bbv_chapter-8.pdf
      14.Diebold Senior Vice-President Jeff Dean was convicted of planting back doors in his software and using a "high degree of sophistication" to evade detection over a period of 2 years. http://www.chuckherrin.com/HackthevoteFAQ.htm#how
      http://www.blackboxvoting.org/bbv_chapter-8.pdf
      15.None of the international election observers were allowed in the polls in Ohio. http://www.globalexchange.org/update/press/2638.html
      http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/10/26/loc_elexoh.html
      16.California banned the use of Diebold machines because the security was so bad. Despite Diebold's claims that the audit logs could not be hacked, a chimpanzee was able to do it. (See the movie here blackboxvoting.org/baxter/baxterVPR.mov .) http://wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,63298,00.html http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4874190
      17.30% of all U.S. votes are carried out on unverifiable touch screen voting machines with no paper trail.
      http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/07/28/sunday/main63 32436.shtml
      18.All - not some - but all the voting machine errors detected and reported in Florida went in favor of Bush or Republican candidates. http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,65757,00.html
      http://www.rise4news.net/extravotes.html
      http://www.ilcaonline.org/modules.php?op=modload&na ame=News&file=article&sid=950
      http://www.ilcaonline.org/modules.php?op=modload&na ame=News&file=article&sid=950 http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0411/S00227.htm
      19.The governor of the state of Florida, Jeb Bush, is the President's brother.
      http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee/news/local/7 7628725.htm
      http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10544-20 004Oct29.html
      20.Serious voting anomalies in Florida - again always favoring Bush - have been mathematically demonstrated and experts are recommending further investigation.
      http://www.computerworld.com/governmenttopics/governmen nt/policy/story/0,10801,97614,00.html
      http://www.uscountvotes.org/

[Bill Bored]

58. Wow, what was post 13 about anyway?

I must have struck a nerve.

[Stephen The Liberal]

80. Thank You for the post and the links

about a 3ed to 1/2 of the information. I have all ready new. But did give me new information. The part that Say-ed all most all irregularity's favored bush & co. was some thing that I was looking for. I did not know if any one looked in to it or not. I believe that democrats took Ohio by about 3 percentage points and that about 5 percent of the votes were stolon. If we want to stop this from happening again. We must fine a way to get proof of it and prosecute and put the wrong doers behind bars. Then we might get change. Intel then they will keep on doing it. Because they are not held liable for their actions.

[madison2000]

17. Maybe you should read and learn for a while

as its the case that you are breaking in on a conversation thats been going along for months, no years. Clearly there's a lot that you are unaware of, so if you are really interested, do your homework before you start challenging everyone on things you haven't begun to investigate yet.

[eridani]

104. BINGO!

So who has the contact info for her or her foundation? Let's ask that she walk the talk here.

[gordianot]

18. She only got one thing partially wrong.

"We in the United States are not a banana republic,"

We do have one major export "garbage", "refuse", or more simply "trash". Our leadership reflects this export.

[sacxtra]

19. IT'S THE ELECTRONICS, DIGITIZED DATA, AND INSECURE NETWORKS

[SophieZ]

37. Four months late and a few dozen electoral votes short...

This is nice.

Let me tell you what happened in September though. And in November. And in June.


MY PERSONAL ENCOUNTER WITH CAM KERRY

On September 14 in Houston, I told the candidate's brother Cam Kerry in person, face to face, to be ready for machine fraud and get some technology experts and people familiar with this onboard, handed him a copy of The Nation cover story by Ronnie Dugger. He seemed polite at best, and not at all curious. {"How They Could Steal the Election This Time," by RONNIE DUGGER, The Nation, Cover Story -- August 16, 2004 issue http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040816&s=dugger}

~~~~~~~~~~

CAM KERRY AFTER THE ELECTION:
"The election protection effort has been important to me personally, and I am proud of the 17,000 lawyers around the country who helped. It's obvious that we have a way to go still, but their efforts helped make a difference. Their work goes on.
Thank you,
Cam Kerry
(attorney and brother and advisor of John Kerry)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

YES CAM, BUT WAS IT 17,000 LAWYERS and ZERO TECHNOLOGY EXPERTS OR COMPUTER PROGRAMMERS OR BLACK BOX ACTIVISTS?????!?!!!!???? WAS IT?!?!
Like hiring a flotilla of orthodontists to build a suspension bridge, or a slew of tractor-trailer truck drivers to compete in the Ice Dancing competition of the Olympics.


~~~~~~~~~~

TOLD TO ME by Tracy Gary
She was at Tampa, Florida Dem headquarters on the Saturday before the election, she wanted to make phone calls or help somehow. The phone message said the office hours were 9 to 5 pm WEEKDAYS. There was virtually no one in the office on the Saturday before the election. She asked why the staff and hundreds of volunteers weren't in there, and the person there said something about "we don't want to work that hard."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FROM Jeeni Criscenzo
While I'm playing the blame game, let's shine the spotlight on the Democratic campaign. I was in the Tampa headquarters for most of the four weeks prior to the election. Tampa, according to Kerry himself, was "Ground Zero" for the campaign. But do you know what hundreds of supporters heard when they showed up at Ground Zero headquarters begging for yard signs, buttons and bumper stickers? They were told there wasn't any more! They ran out over a week before the election. We were told the campaign was setting aside money for legal actions after the election so they couldn't print up any more campaign materials. But John Kerry conceded the election in less than 24 hours when there were reports of disparities and fraud coming in from all over the country! What happened to all those "legal action" plans?
[email protected]


~~~~~~~~~~~
from voting activist Vickie Karp in Austin, Texas:

Abbe Delozier and I sent an "Invisible Ballots" (G. Edward Griffin) DVD and Bev {Harris}'s book to Vincent Fry, the chairman of the Democratic party Voting Rights division, or some such title, back in June. No comment until I e-mailed him later, to which he replied, "Raises some interesting points." End of discussion. I had my suspicions then that the Dems didn't want to know the details, which made me suspect their motives all the way to the top. Apparently my suspicions were justified.
The bloodless coup!
Vickie Karp
[email protected] 11 30 04

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

from Houstonian and a leader of the state Progressive Populist Democrats STAN MERRIMAN:

I had started calling the DNC on or about Nov. 4, asking if there was an elections fraud group, frankly to try to verify the gnawing uncertainty that my Party was doing anything about the reports emerging on "voting irregularities" all over the USA. I was given the name of Louis Fry (sp) as the head of that division. Almost daily until about the 15th I left messages for him. No answers back from anyone. Also each time cycled through the forwarding loop where when you hit "O" for operator, it cycles you to the next person in the department and ultimately to an aide in Chair (hopefully soon to be unseated !) office. On one occasion, a call to the DNC last week at 5:05 pm Eastern Standard Time, the switchboard operator said there was no one there at all -- everyone had gone home for the day.
Finally, after a week, I got a call back from Fry who told me they do have lawyers on the ground, particularly in Florida and Ohio, working also with lawyers from the State Parties. I did not have presence of mind to ask if they also had technical people...........a major omission on my part but my sense was, not from the DNC......they seem to think lawyers are always the solution because that is what they are in the main. I verified that The Chair was indeed on vacation (in the very middle of what might be a Constitutional crisis, but at the very least a very egregious voting rights crisis). Cynically I asked was it at Stowe or Vail ? One aide I got, obviously assigned to assauge an irate hinterlander, me, said....."we lost; we are all moving on here"............I asked if that was the official DNC position and though clearly without the authority to do so, he said YES. He also said that much of the staff had been let go. So, Virginia, your Party was on vacation or furlough during perhaps one of our most crucial elections in American history. My contempt for the DNC grows with each passing day with their incompetence.
Stan Merriman
(Stan has been instrumental in organizing the Progressive Caucus within the Texas Democratic Party)
November 21, 2004

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

CAM KERRY's OP ED ON THE DAY OF THE CHALLENGE TO THE OHIO ELECTORS
(bear in mind that the candidate was off in Iraq)
(and note that he seems to have learned little in the two months following the election):

Counting every vote
Op Ed
By Cameron F. Kerry
January 6, 2005
The Boston Globe

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped... /

SO NOW the votes in Ohio have been recounted, and it's time for Congress to tally the Electoral College. But while the election is over, a fight goes on to protect everyone's right to vote and make sure every vote is counted.

I wish it weren't so, but the final facts look like the picture on the morning of Nov. 3 when my brother, John Kerry, ended his campaign for president. <MORE>

[MelissaB]

20. Heck yeah! I love this woman.

She "gets it."

[Catfight]

21. I won't vote again until it's honest and there is a paper trail. WE are

a banana republic as far as I'm concerned until the current voting system is fixed. We certainly have a monkey for a president that will always be under a shroud of scandal.

[AtLiberty]

30. Don't say paper trail...

Say "voter verified paper ballot."

[Catfight]

67. Point taken, "A voter verified paper ballot." nt

[CanOfWhoopAss]

111. If you don't vote...

When there is a verified paper ballot they will scrub you from the registration list for inactivity. You have to continue to vote to force them to continue the corruption. Otherwise they can legitmate their corruption by showing they actually won the vote through suddenly "valid" exit polls. Vote totals will validate the election and reflect those who protested against the election by not voting.

[CanOfWhoopAss]

112. Vote in Repuke Primaries

Make them fix their own primarys as well as the general election. Once they start screwing each other in the primarys the corruption will unravel. If you live in a crossover state like GA you can vote in the other party's primarys. If you don't live in a crossover state, like NY, you just register as a repuke. Other benefits of being a registered repuke is you get their mail so you get the inside track to their scams and plans.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

22. Nominate this other thread (dupe)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3232390

[MelissaB]

28. It looks like this one was was posted first,

I don't care which gets nominated. I just love the message. :)

[Laurab]

23. Finally!

I've been waiting for her to speak out on this. I hope she does a lot more speaking out, along with everyone else who knows what's going on. It may be a small paper, but it's a start.

[Blue Shark]

24. Too Bad her Husband didn't stick around...

...to see how it all came out

[seito]

31. Way to find something negative to say

:eyes:

[Blue Shark]

35. IT MATTERED...

...Had JFK II just fufilled the Promise to count every vote, ... the WORST. PRESIDENT. EVER is history and we are now into the third month of a Kerry administration.

...Yeah it IS negative. That is my usual reaction to election fraud. What is yours?

[seito]

36. IF he had contested the election

we would be in the EXACT SAME PLACE we are now. The only difference would be that more people would be suspicious of the election outcome, and more people would think that Democrats are nothing more than sore losers.

The time to fix this was BEFORE the last election. That didn't happen, so NOW is the time to fix it, BEFORE the next election. We must investigate, and expose what happened in 2004 and ensure it does not happen again.

[Blue Shark]

42. I agree completely with your second paragraph...

...I do not agree with the first.

...Why do you think there was the phony recount and nobody gave a damn? Because JFK II had quit.

...Had the nation been waiting on an ACTUAL vote total from Ohio, the votes in the hand recount would have once and for all demonstrated what all the empirical, mathmatical, and statistical data has shown...namely vote tabulating manipulation. Then all the other battleground states screwy "irregularities" (that all favored Bush) might have been looked at and this "Bush won by 2.2 Million votes" would have evaporated.

...Most importantly, John Kerry would have taken office on January 20th, 2005. That is not "sour grapes" that is democracy coming back from the brink of death.

...Check this out if you have'nt already...
<http://globalresearch.ca/articles/KEE501A.html>

[seito]

43. History disputes your claim

Florida was much closer in 2000, and the actual count proved that Gore won. He did not get a fair recount, and Kerry would not have gotten one either.

No matter what John Kerry did on Nov 3rd, it would not have lead to a President Kerry on Jan 20th. I would have loved to see a good fight, but that would not, necessarily, have helped the cause.

In any case, there is nothing to gain by the continued bashing of GOOD DEMOCRATS that are fighting NOW.

[sandnsea]

45. This boggles my mind

They were in court then and they're in court now. Nothing would have changed the way the recount was done. NH didn't show anything either. If he hadn't conceded, voting reform would be ignored as nothing more than whining sore loser Democrats. He did the right thing. He waited longer to concede than is traditional. I think alot of people have just forgotten the way Presidential elections work. When you don't have the votes, you concede.

[saracat]

47. Hello? There was a timing factor

and NO way would the evidence be able to be gotten together in that short a period of time. They still haven't released the voting machines in Ohio and K/E filed regarding that months ago. The deck was stacked and Kerry knew it. He wasn't about to go in without the evidence.He is a prosecutor and a careful one. He will make sure whatever he has "sticks" but there was no way to do it before Jan.@oth. Bush would still be where he is no matter when Kerry conseded and Kerry knew it. Stop blaming the victim.

[kster]

51. Agreed Kerry

played it good,the fraud is to deeply embedded to expose it at the top.It has to be a grass root kinda thing, to get it to bubble to the surface, which it has been doing since Nov 3rd. I don't know if it was Kerry's plan, but after 7000 cases as a prosecutor, he would have been the most likely guy to have thought of it.

[Peace Patriot]

79. "The time to fix this was BEFORE the last election."--seito

Yup. And that is the question that we must get an answer to, in order to restore our right to vote. How could our own party leaders have acquiesced in this blatantly, egregiously, obviously fraudulent election SYSTEM? Bush "Pioneers" counting all our votes in secret. I mean, come on...

In California right now, we're figting a DEMOCRAT--L.A. county elections head Connie McCormack--who advocates for Diebold and paperless voting, and takes vacations with a buddy of hers who is on the Diebold payroll.

She led the witch hunt against SoS Kevin Shelley, who had decertified and sued Diebold, and had provided Californians with a paper ballot option for the 2004 election. She was joined in that campaign to drive Shelley from office by CA legislative leaders Don Perata and Gloria Romero. We now have an SoS appointed by Arnold Schwarzenegger--and McCormack is proceeding with a campaign to get L.A. county an exemption from Shelley's strict time-line for a voter verified ballot.

I think it's true that, no matter what evidence Kerry had taken to Congress, the fraudulently elected BushCon Pod People in Congress would never have ousted Bush in Kerry's favor. They would have "spun" anything that was presented, no matter how damning. That's what they do. They are Pod People. These are the same people that blocked a paper trail and other auditing provisions. (And neither will they permit election system reform--it has to be done locally.)

But WHEN they blocked a paper trail and other auditing provisions, long before the election, WHERE WAS the Democratic leadership?

Not a word of protest! No warning to voters, campaign volunteers or donors! It was NOT AN ISSUE. And we need to know why, and we need to purge the corrupt Democrats who let it happen.

I think Dean as DNC chair is a good beginning (although we, of necessity, MUST ASK, whether Dean was PERMITTED TO BECOME DNC chair merely to keep the Left on board, and will be hamstrung on any real reform--we need to watch this...). Dean can help, even if he is hamstrung. He seems to be well aware that election reform has to be done locally (Congress isn't going to do squat). And we're probably looking at a long, hard, state by state battle, which we CAN win, but with victory coming incrementally, as we slowly clean up the election system--get more and more auditability--and start electing people who represent the majority.

But we need to realize, as we've discovered in California, that the corruption of our election system runs deep and crosses party lines.

Dr. Steven Freeman added up the 2000 Gore voters, the amazing Dem success in new voter registration in 2004 (Dems 57%, Repubs 41%)(--achieved by the grass roots), and the big jump of Nader voters to Kerry, and he calculated a Kerry victory by 4 to 8 million votes. Party leaders knew this and more, going into the election, on election day, and afterward. That's their JOB--to know how votes are counted and what the outcome is likely to be.

So why have they acted like they don't know it?

That is the question.

(Note: And this is NOT a matter of one man's decision--Kerry's. It is useless and distracting to bash Kerry over his concession. I think it's possible that he is the one who was betrayed and abandoned, by the Dem leaders around him who damn well knew who was counting all our votes in secret, who permitted this corrupt election system to be put into place without any protest, and who then further wouldn't back any challenge of it. In any case--whatever Kerry's level of knowledge of the election system, and whatever were the levels and types of corruption in the Dem leaders advising him--by 11/3, Kerry was boxed in. The theft of the election for Mideast war--which nearly 60% of Americans STILL oppose, now, today--and for the corporate military-industrial complex and its super rich war profiteers--was accomplished. And there was nothing Kerry could do about it without the united effort of all Democratic leaders, and I think we can presume that a good many of them were like Connie McCormack, taking vacations with their buddies at Diebold--or something comparable...Halliburton?).

[LittleClarkie]

101. From some of the things I've read from Raw Story I think you're right

Very likely he was betrayed. Witness that he changed lawyers in Ohio. The one who continues the fight is not the same one who kept saying "Nothing's wrong." I've heard the words "set up" in connection to the organization in Ohio. Set up by Dems in his own party who weren't necessarily looking out for his interests in Ohio. Who's interests they were looking out for, I don't know.

[eridani]

105. When did the lawyer change occur? n/t

[LittleClarkie]

107. I'll do a better job of looking later, but

I think when William Pitt announced that Kerry was getting in the game is when the change had occured, and we stopped hearing the other fool say nothing was wrong. December I think. I'll have a look and get a better answer for you

[mod mom]

108. What change in lawyers in OH? Daniel Hoffheimer, Kerry's attorney in Ohio

is now on the Ohio Election Review Team. Here is his short bio from the DNC announcement:

Daniel J. Hoffheimer – Daniel J. Hoffheimer, former President of the Cincinnati Bar Association and of the Federal Bar Association, Cincinnati Chapter, is a partner with Taft, Stettinuis & Hollister LLP, Cincinnati, OH, where his law practice is concentrated in nonprofit, charitable, and political organizations; wealth management, succession and estate planning, trust and probate law, family business, elder law and guardianships estate and gift taxation and probate court litigation. In 2004, Hoffheimer served as State Counsel in Ohio for the Kerry-Edwards campaign. He earned his bachelor’s degree, cum laude, from Harvard College and his law degree in 1976 from the University of Virginia Law School.

[porkrind]

71. Too bad it's true.

:(

Let's not be revisionist about it.

[suziedemocrat]

25. I LOVE Her!!!

I just hope she is saying what all the other Dems are thinking and quietly fixing!!!

[Vidar]

26. Good for Teresa.

[SoCalDem]

27. The time to speak out has long passed, although I am glad she is.

This should ahve been the drumbeat....BEFORE... the elections..

The democratic party should have DEMANDED extensive coverage of the irregularities that were happening on the ground on election day.. They should have filed suit after suit as it was happening, and there should have been a steady stream of vocal democtrats on TV 24/7 saying basically.. "He stole it in 2k..04-NO WAY!!!!!"

But instead, we did as we always do...we retreated to lick our wounds and made a fringe 3rd party guy and a bunch of middle class internet junkies "fight our battles in court", and our leaders just said.."Oh well, better luck next time"...OH, remeber when we said we would fight for you?? " well ...we meant NEXT time":eyes:

[seito]

32. Shoulda, coulda, woulda

They are doing the right thing NOW, before the next election.

[SoCalDem]

33. The trick will be for them to sustain it.

Here's hoping:)

The truly unfortunate thing is that HAVA pretty much "madates" that MOST locations will be using DREs before 08, and after that much mooney has been spent, the cash-strapped states will have spent the federal money they got, and will not be able to afford to scrap those machines:(

[mod mom]

63. Laws mean nothing unless they are enforced. HAVA was NOT enforced, in

fact OH SOS (and bu$h/cheney '04 co-chair) made a mockery of it. He refuses to even answer questions. The Dems in leadership roles can't hold hearings, have NO subpoena power. The corporate sponsored media has no incentive to pursue investigation, since they are profit driven, and want to avoid risk. These are dangerous times, folks.

After kkkarl rove, it's the SOS's who hold all the power in our country. They choose the machines, software. It doesn't matter if we increase our base astronomically, unless we deal with the issues that effect the vote.

[SoCalDem]

94. You got it right.. I was annoyed at how fast HAVA was passed

It was "the other shoe" dropping after 2000. The repubes knew that we "knew" they stole the election and would be EAGER to vote for election reform, and they were only too happy to oblige us.. So just like a poisoned patient asking for help, they generously gave us more "medicine"..)(the same poison they had been giving us all along).. Our short-sighted legislators puffed out their chests and darned near dislocated their shoulders from patting themselves on the back. The states greedily scarfed up all the "time-limited" money they were offered to buy up those black boxes, and the BriarPatch Voting System was loved by one and all...(except for the candidates who get cheated out of their hard-won elections)..

This is the same method that worked "so well" during the post 9-11 panic. The Patriot Act was another "quickie" that has hurt the US longterm.

In fact we can almost predict just how bad the legislation is by the breakneck speed with which it's rammed down our throats. Like Mom always said when we have to take icky medicine.."Swallow it FAST, and it's easier to take"..

[eridani]

106. DREs NOT mandated!

Check your facts!

http://www.votersunite.org/MB2.pdf

[sandnsea]

46. STILL no evidence

So where would all of that gotten us? We wouldn't even have a reason to call for election reform if it had all been dragged through the courts and we'd come up empty. Which we would have, just like we are now.

We lost the election battle when people screamed "fraud" without any evidence and kept pointing to situations that were repeatedly shot down. It was all downhill from there.

[mod mom]

64. I beg to differ. there is evidence or else Barbara Boxer would not have

stood up on January 6th. Yes we need to hear from those who control the machines and software, but there is enough evidence to warrant a full investigation.

[sandnsea]

90. An investigation, yes

Barbara Boxer did not contest the election, she stood up to highlight election problems. I'm not critizing that or saying that we don't need to continue with the court cases, investigations and election reform. I'm saying Kerry conceding wouldn't have changed anything and would have made the election reform task ahead of us much much harder. The complaints were not about trying to overturn the election, the complaints were about fair elections in the future. He did the right thing.

[RaleighNCDUer]

70. There is plenty of evidence. See post 16 above.

Not all conspiracy theories are just conspiracy theories. Do your research. Read that rather impressive list of links, then say you honestly believe there is no evidence, if you can.

On Edit --

Perhaps you are confusing evidence with proof. Evidence is what starts an investigation. Proof is the result of the investigation. A smoking gun is, after all, only evidence until after an investigation and criminal prosecution. We will never have proof as long as people insist there is no evidence.

[Peace Patriot]

81. A very good point, NCevilDUer!

"Evidence is what starts an investigation. Proof is the result of the investigation. A smoking gun is, after all, only evidence until after an investigation and criminal prosecution. We will never have proof as long as people insist there is no evidence." --NCevilDUer

I've been trying to get people to understand the difference between "proof" that an election was stolen, and an INVALID election. If you have

a) a non-transparent election system with essential components of that system (the secret, proprietary source code that tabulates the votes) owned and controlled by the partisans of one candidate; and

b) highly suspicious results, as numerous Ph.D.'s in statistics and mathematics have now reported...

...you have an INVALID ELECTION.

One of the culprits--not often mentioned: The TV networks CHANGED the Exit Poll data that everybody was watching on their TV screens and that showed a Kerry win. They ALTERED this data to fit the "official tally" coming in from the Bush partisan-owned vote tabulators. So Americans were denied a critical piece of the evidence of fraud. Exit Polls are used worldwide to verify elections and check for fraud. Ours were changed. The evidence was hidden.

[sandnsea]

89. Parsing words

The point is there is NOTHING which would have led to any different outcome on Jan 20. Bush would have been sworn in. The only thing Kerry not conceding would have done is slowed down election investigations and election reform. He knew that then, perhaps others will figure it out eventually.

[MelissaB]

29. Would it be a bad idea to recruit THK

to help us educate the public about the machines. Somebody should, and she is one of the only people speaking out.

[Amaryllis]

40. Great idea...anyone have a way to reach her?

[ginnyinWI]

60. Yes I think it would be a bad idea

She is an "interested party" and it wouldn't look good.

She has other projects, and is very busy.

If she wanted to do more, she surely would have by now. But I think someone else should be the "face" on this thing.

[mod mom]

34. Teresa Heinz Kerry would fit into DU culture because she has fiery passion

about life, like us. She is willing to stand up for what is right.

[MelissaB]

39. Okay, how do we get her?

Anybody have any ideas?

Post to her son here???

[seito]

44. Chris Heinz

posted here until he was flamed for supporting someone other than Dean for DNC chair. I have not heard anything from him since that day.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1485698

This was a very nice post by him just after the selection

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2598145

[blue neen]

48. Could we send mail to her via Senator Kerry's office?

She'd be a great person to speak about election fraud and reform.

[MelissaB]

49. I was thinking about the Nashville "Gathering to Save Democracy"

I doubt she would come, but it's a thought.

Questions:

Would she automatically be tuned out because of who her husband is?
Would people only think of what she is saying as sour grapes?

Let's think about this. I think Democrats would listen, but others???

[blue neen]

52. IMHO, it seems like Democrats are the only ones who are

interested in the election fraud. Republicans are in denial--just as long as their lovely King George had his coronation, then they're happy.

Maybe it would be like preaching to the choir, but we have to keep that "preaching" going on. We have to be heard; we have to be validated.

Here's a number for Sen. Kerry's office: 202-224-2742
It's worth a shot!

[MelissaB]

61. Thanks, blue neen!

Anybody else before I try to call. I may call this afternoon.

[marions ghost]

77. good luck

tell us what happens. I wonder if even THK realizes how many people know it was stolen. A lot of support out there.

[Nothing Without Hope]

38. Does someone else remember this: shortly after Nov 2 one of the blog

reporters (i.e., one of the people posting or cited in major blogs regularly and accorded trust for their accuracy) posted a report of a face-to-face encounter with Teresa and John Kerry. I remember the description but I did not save it and do not have a link to it. I also don't recall which of the major blog personalities it was -- it may have been in Will Pitt's blog, but I am by no means sure of that; at that time I was monitoring a lot of blogs.

What he reported was that he talked about the evidence pouring in that the vote in Ohio and elsewhere was subject to election fraud on a large scale. He went through some of the particulars and said more information was coming in all the time. He was saying that the election might have been stolen. What I particularly recall is his description of the reactions of Theresa and John to this monolog. Theresa, he said, reacted with obvious anger and strong concern. John, on the other hand, had a different response. I recall the blogger saying "His eyes sort of glazed over," and going on to say that it was clear that John thought he was spinning groundless conspiracy theories. He showed no interest at all and seemed turned off by the blogger's report.

At the time I read this in the first few weeks after the election, I was concerned but hoped that maybe John was just being cagey and knew much more than he was letting on. But now I think it likely that he really did doubt that there was enough election fraud to change the outcome. He did concede very quickly, while the election watchers were still en route to report on the widespread fraud evidence they observed.

Does anyone else remember this report? It's driving me nuts to have forgotten who this was. In retrospect, what he saw and reported seems rather prescient.

[Amaryllis]

41. I heard this same thing from someone else supposedly in the know but

who knows for sure?

[MelissaB]

50. Me, too.

I know I've heard this before.

[Generator]

53. If this is what she says to reporters

Imagine what she and John have been talking about.

We have been so screwed by the media, and the fear in this country. I really am sick to my stomach.

I don't know if I can ever feel good about being an American again unless the truth about this election and 9/11 (yeah like they aren't fucking connnected at the hip ultimately) come out. Fat chance uh?

[kster]

55. I don't know about

9-11, but I think the truth will come out about the election theft.There are to many people who know the truth. Not just the truth the exact truth. Its in the tabulators,they want us to fight for legislation to fix it at the voting box,because it does not have much to do with the theft thats going to happen at the tabulators."Sacxtra" explains this best with his/her diagram.

[manxkat]

75. I suggest you learn more about 9/11 then

since the government's official explanation amounts to the most unbelievable conspiracy theory itself -- there has never been any evidence to back up the government's claims.

Start here:

Threshold Fears and Unanswered Questions About 9/11 by Peter Phillips, March 6, 2005

Then watch an excellent 1-hour talk by David Ray Griffin HERE

[kster]

78. I'm impressed with

that, I'm just to focused on the election theft.I cant stop 9/11 but I can do my little part to try and stop election theft.

[Melissa G]

57. Kick for Landshark and THK!

[Smarmie Doofus]

65. It will be extremely interesting to see if this story...

is picked-up by the MSM today... and to what extent.

Extremely difficult to ignore totally, given her prominence.

We watch; we wait.

[The Backlash Cometh]

66. I love ya, Teresa! You would have been great for this country!

[spooked911]

69. Some conspiracies are more believable than others and sadly a vote-rigging

conspiracy is very believable, with the way the GOP is now constituted.

I believe this is an issue that Democrats need to push strongly -- transparent and easily verifiable voting systems.

[manxkat]

72. she's got more balls than her husband,

but I beg to differ in her assertion that the U.S. is not a banana republic. I'm afraid we have more in common with fascist dictatorships with each passing day.

Read Harvey Wasserman's latest piece:
"Senator Byrd is Correct to Equate Bush With Hitler"

[bejammin075]

73. Fuck voting machines - all of them

We need straight-up old fashioned PAPER BALLOTS. Voter verified paper ballots confuses the issue to me. Is that a machine that has a paper component?

Why should we settle for anything less than plain paper ballots counted by hand?

This is so depressing. No republicans and only a subset of democrats care about this. Politically progressive people have so little power, I don't see how we can ever change this, with most of the media as fucked as it is.

[Lizzie Borden]

109. The media won't let us go back to paper ballots.

The elections are a media circus and that's the way they want it. They want to be the first to report who one and who lost, first to get and maintain the biggest ratings. They could give a rat's ass about real honest elections. We are screwed. If there were a way for bloggers to somehow go on line and report the numbers as they came in we might have a chance. In the past, for the mayor's race in Madison,WI. I've been able to get this information from the League of women voters as they got it. They tend to be very sympathetic.

[bejammin075]

74. Thinking about voting in primaries scares me

The fact that we have Diebold and ES&S machines to select who we chose in the primaries is scary. There's less scrutiny and therefore more room for foul play. Public opinion polls for primaries are probably less accurate than for the elections, so if the results differ from the polls...

I fear that we could get stuck in a situation where people who would tend to reform voting would tend not to be selected by the Diebold and ES&S programming.

What are we to do?

[mod mom]

76. welcome to DU Benjammin and welcome to our dilemma

The repugs control all branches of government, we are highly unlikely to get meaningful election reform legislation out of the Fed government. Some are pursuing state or local issues, but that is difficult if you are in a state controlled by a party who likes the results they are getting-why change?

Velvet Revolution is sponsoring a divestiture campaign against the companies such as Diebold, ESS and others whose closed system of tabulating is destroying our democracy.

[Peace Patriot]

83. Well, I am in a state where we had the best Sec of State in the nation,

Kevin Shelley, who decertified and sued Diebold for their lies about the security of their machines, provided Californians with a paper ballot option, and backed strict time-lines for voter verified ballots (and got his standards passed unanimously by the legislature).

He's gone now--driven from office by trivial, unproven charges. And guess who led the witch hunt?

Democrats.

One of them--L.A. county elections chief Connie McCormack, who wines and dines and vacations with her buddy, a Diebold sales person. MCormack openly advocates for Diebold and paperless voting.

So the difficulty is not just if you live in a state controlled by BushCons. The problem is deeper than that, and crosses party lines.

Yes, I think Velvet Revolution has the right idea. Diebold & other such companies do more than provide stinking, lousy, insecure, hackable, unverifiable voting technology. They have all kinds of government contracts, and undoubtedly have all kinds of government funds (such a teachers pensions) invested in them. These two at least--Diebold and ES&S--need to be driven out of government, and any public funds invested in them need to be withdrawn (as well as private investment).

[Colorado Blue]

82. I think all this, all this debate, is the best thing that has

happened to America in a long, long time. It is forcing us to think about what our country is really doing, who we are and where we are going.

Don't give up! Bless all who are thinking, and wondering. We've been firmly planted in front of the tube for so many decades we've lost our creativity and our edge. Maybe this "election" and its so far deeply disturbing implications will wake America up once again.

[morffin]

84. Too bad her husband is such a pussy

I shut down my studio for a month to vol. for kerry.......only to have him go fetal on us when we needed him the most.

4 more years of hell

[politicasista]

87. That's is a mean and nasty thing to say.

You should watch the personal attacks here. Stop hating on Momma T's husband

[morffin]

96. so what do you call it

when he goes AWOL in Ohio...goes AWOl when Conyers and Boxer put their asses on the line.......Kerry punked out. The Repugs were right about him.

[politicasista]

97. He did NOT go AWOL in Ohio

There is a lawsuit with he and Edwards name on it in Ohio. He has done some things since the election ended. Must be watching FOX news or not keeping up. Why don't you join the Kerry hatefest somewhere else. Vicious, mean-spirited personal attacks aren't helping anyone. :mad: :mad: :mad: :argh: :grr: :grr: :grr:

[morffin]

98. oh a lawsuit

wow! What fighter.

He conceded way too early and was nowhere to be found on the day the vote was cert. He let us all down. Why are you defending him? You sound like a Kerrybot.

The guy punked out..get over it. He should have fought the farce in Ohio with all his resources and millions..instead he played the good little politician and walked away with his tail between his legs...and now we are stuck with 4 more years of the worst disaster this country has ever had for a president.

Do you think Dean would have taken the crap that Bush and Rove threw at Kerry? or let the fraud in Ohio and Florida go w/o a fight.....a lawsuit..give me a friggin break. Kerry had the national spotlight and every reason to raise a stink over the most crooked election in our nations history........he did NOTHING.

Kerry's silence was a major talking point for the right.........his lack of spirit and fight gave them the ammo to call people like us conspiracy theorists....our evidence of fraud is still not taken seroiusly today because kerry has done nothing but declare victory for Bush.

I worked my ass off for Kerry and feel betrayed....sorry if that offends you.

[politicasista]

99. Yea, you sound like a Naderite, Deaniac, or Clarkie

Shame, Shame, Shame. :argh: :mad: :grr:

[politicasista]

100. You don't pay attention.

I am disappointed Kerry conceded so soon too, but I refuse to sling mean-spirited, vicious attacks on someone personally cause they didn't do what I wanted him to do. He has been active during all this. You just don't pay attention. Had he been out in the open, the media would have torn him apart and his political career would have been over. Unlike Gore (who I also like), Kerry has NOT ran away and hid like you think he has. You need to stop hating and e-mail him if that's the way you feel. Enough already. Go watch FOX news or something. :mad: :mad: :argh: :grr: :grr:

[politicasista]

91. Somebody needs to delete this post

:mad: :mad: :mad:

[LittleClarkie]

93. I took the GOTV week off and volunteered on my birthday

But I've never taken that as license to make bitter, nasty, Whiner 49er comments.

[SoCalDemGrrl]

85. This is WONDERFUL news and proves what most of us have said

all along - that John Kerry knew the election was rigged, but just did not have definitive proof. I am so relieved to see the JK & Teresa are still in the hunt to uncover the 2004 election fraud!:bounce:

[Danish Reporter]

92. Update from Denmark - and an off topic link

Dear DU'ers

It's been a while, but I think this is the moment to post an update from Denmark - and what better place to do it than in the Teresa Heinz discussion?

I'm still investigating the US presidential election. I was taken off course for a moment by the danish election in February, but I'm still here, and although I haven't posted for a while I read DU regularly and sniff around, researching for a series of articles on the irregularities and election fraud, both in Ohio and elsewhere.

Please, as I have said before: Keep me updated. Send mails. Even though I'm not always replying, I'm always reading.

On a side note: As some may remember, I have previously written a great deal about the Iraq war. Some of my writings on the war was published in a white paper in Ekstra Bladet in 2003 and 2004. Now I have finally gotten around to translating the white paper. It can be found at this link: http://www.datashopper.dk/~boo/lies-of-war.pdf

The original first edition in Danish can be found here: http://www.datashopper.dk/~boo/irak/hvidbogen.pdf

Yours respectfully

Bo Elkjaer, Denmark

[Spiffarino]

95. My heart soars like a hawk

...to quote Little Big Man's adopted father.

THK has guts. She knows that the Scaife newspapers in Pennsylvania are going to come after her 100 times worse than before. She'll probably tell them to kiss her ass this time.

I love this woman.

[Kurovski]

102. Thank you, Teresa Heinz Kerry.

You wonderful woman, you. I hhope others will come forward and speak of any suspicions they have about the state of voting in our "Banana Republicanised" nation.

And thanks to Lou Dobbs for reporting this with absolutely no spin whatsoever. I heard it on his program and had to see what Duers were saying.

We must get rid of those damn machines, period.

[skywalker_5]

110. why didnt she do anything back then?