Should Dion renounce his French citizenship?

[tuvor]

Poll question: Should Dion renounce his French citizenship?

Dion dismisses call to give up French citizenship

Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion dismissed suggestions Tuesday that he should renounce his French citizenship, saying he is "100 per cent loyal to Canada."

Dion, who was born in Quebec City, also holds French citizenship because his mother was born in France.

"I'm proud of who I am, and I am fully loyal to my country, and nobody will question that," Dion told reporters Tuesday.

"I'm 100 per cent loyal to Canada, and I believe I've more than demonstrated that in my life."

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/12/05/dion-france.html

[glarius]

1. This whole thing about his French citizenship is a phony deal isn't it?

Unless I'm wrong, isn't it a fact that anyone with one of their parents born in another country is automatically a citizen of that country as well as Canada? In that case there are millions of Canadians with dual citizenship in the same way that Dion has it. It's not as if he applied for citizenship in another country. The whole thing sounds like something the right-wing Republicans would use as a wedge issue to me.

[tuvor]

2. You mean, perhaps, someone like...

...Ezra Levant?

[IntravenousDemilo]

3. Oh my, that was so disturbing I had to write this letter to the Sun (not that they'll print it).

Stéphane Dion was born here and, except for some years as a student in Paris, has lived here all his life. He's Canadian enough for me and I have no doubts whatsoever about his loyalty to Canada. It's really an alarming coincidence that Ezra Levant mentions and even lionizes Ted Morton in the same column, since Morton wasn't born in this country.

For that matter, neither were Sir John A Macdonald, Alexander Mackenzie, and John Turner -- loyal Canadians all -- and nothing was made of that, certainly not the mountain that Levant is desperately trying to make out of this molehill. If he can't find anything substantial about Dion to criticize, it's not his job as a journalist, nor yours as a publisher, to create controversy out of nonsense.

[Bassic]

5. Good one.

I doubt it'll get printed, as you said, but a good letter nonetheless.

[IntravenousDemilo]

9. Thanks, Bassic

And I'm not even a Liberal voter. I've always been either PC (Clark/Orchard variety) or, now, NDP -- note my avatar. In fact, I'm a little torn as to who should get my vote now. Gerard Kennedy had been my MPP for eight years and I liked him very much, but my riding is now solidly NDP both federally and provincially, with the Liberals in second and the Conservatives a distant third. I like and respect my NDP MP Peggy Nash, and I both know personally and greatly admire my NDP MPP Cheri DiNovo. What's more, they're both working in tandem towards a provincial and federal minimum wage of $10/hr. I only took out a Liberal membership on the deadline date this summer so that I could equally vote for Kennedy (one of the two ballots they gave me) as well as 14 Dion delegates (the other one), because they were my favourites among the candidates.

I know there are a lot of people who would consider this an embarrassment of riches, having to choose between the two more-leftwing parties with no chance of a Tory winning. But jeez, help me here, Bassic. I think Nash is an excellent MP, and I generally vote for the person more than the party, but at the same time I would REALLY prefer that the Liberals retake the government (minority with NDP balance of power) and I respect Dion highly. What would you suggest?

[Bragi]

10. Tough choice

The important thing for me is voting to ensure that conservatives are not elected. The second important thing would be to vote to elect a Liberal, if the Liberal is competitive, so they can form a government instead of the cons.

Accordingly, if I was in your situation, I'd likely vote NDP if I really liked the candidate, but otherwise I'd vote Liberal if it might help them form a government.

- B

[Bassic]

11. It's a hard decision to make

When it comes right down to it, you have to vote for what you want the most. For example, if you're convinced that an NDP MP is better for your riding, than by all means vote NDP. IF, however, your main concern is to help in putting the Cons out of power, my money would rather be on the Liberals. Not much help, I know, but perhaps weighing both options in this light might help.

[glarius]

7. Exactly!.........That smarmy creep is doing just what I would expect.

Dion should waste no time in making it known to the public that he is a dual citizen, not because he has pursued it, but due to the fact that his mother was born in France.

[Bassic]

4. It is. it is completely irrelevant.

He's a Canadian citizen and has been in Canadian politics for a long time. He is also the father of the Clarity Act. I think it is abundantly clear that his loyalty lies in Ottawa, and not in Paris.

[MrPrax]

8. 557,000 or 1.8% dual citizens

Found this one over at the Globe

But Dion's mum doesn't like it...


'I never saw a politician who was happy,' says Dion's mom

MONTREAL -- Denyse Dion doesn't much care for politics and has rarely met a politician who was happy. She is hoping, though, that her son breaks the mould.

"If he wants to be in politics, that's his problem," says the 77-year-old mother of Stéphane Dion, the new leader of the Liberal Party. "We always let our children do what they want."


...

Ms. Dion was born in Paris and, as a result, the new Liberal Leader has dual citizenship. (Mr. Dion has never voted in French elections, an aide said yesterday). The Opposition leader did study in France, however, obtaining a PhD from the Institut d'études politiques in Paris. He was in France during the 1980 referendum on Quebec sovereignty.

...

She has said that her son's biggest handicap in politics may be his honesty. (haha)

Gob

[MrPrax]

6. I thought that was funny...

Dion is a hard sell.

The liberals had a year to find a leader and couldn't get a single acceptable 'big name' to run, prominent members left and the 'fresh new look' liberals look like the old liberals.

Should be cute watching the Tories run a nationalist flag-waving campaign as cover for deep integration while the Liberals defend 'Canadian values' with a guy that can't speak English.

The rubes fall for it every time...

[Bassic]

12. He does speak English

He just has an accent.

[MrPrax]

13. Um...

Well...he is talking to Peter Mansbridge in a Talk Back segment on NewsWorld and he is trying to use English and he's unintelligible...um...looks bad...

[tuvor]

14. Dion interrupted a lot before questions were finished, too.

Where was that willingness to listen I was reading about just a couple of days ago?

Also, a lot of his responses sounded to me like "this time we really mean what we say," especially with respect to Kyoto.

Iron out those wrinkles now, and start effing meaning what you say, Mr. Dion.

ON EDIT: As far as his being unintelligible goes, I hope for his sake that it was partly due to his having had lost his voice as he mentioned at the start of the Q&A.

[MrPrax]

15. God I hope so too...

Iron out wrinkles, please Mr. Dion.

Lost his voice...that works for me, because the alternative is too terrible to comprehend.

[glarius]

16. Sorry, but I don't agree....I was very impressed with Dion on Mansbridge's

show. To me he came across as honest and forthright and I had no trouble understanding him....even with his gratey voice which was giving him a problem.
He seems to be making a special effort to reach out to the west and ALL parts of Canada! So far, I like what I see!:applause:

[tuvor]

17. I'm not sure we're disagreeing about anything.

All things considered, I, too, was impressed and he appeared honest and eager to please, and I had little trouble understanding him.

There were, however, several times I found myself wishing he'd just let Mansbridge finish the entire question before interrupting to answering it.

[ncabot22]

18. If I'm honest, yes

I do think he should renounce his French citizenship. The Governor General did and so should he. I see it more as a conflict of interest. However remote, I'm afraid there could be a possible conflict of interest on trade matters, etc.

Seriously, if it turned out Stephen Harper or Bob Rae had US citizenship, I'm sure no one (including me) would want him as PM. I don't want SH as PM anyway, but still I still think there would be an uproar if either man had US citizenship.

[Bassic]

19. I disagree

As previously stated, Dion has been working in the Canadian governement for many years now. His loyalty is abundantly clear. This isn't any different than some old Prime ministers who were UK citizens.

[iverglas]

20. some of us may be confusing

us with the US.

The PM here is head of government -- but s/he is essentially just an MP. I'd hazard a guess that there are at least several MPs who are dual citizens.

Head of government and head of state (or vice-head of state, the GG) are quite different things. The head of government, in our system, is just the primus inter pares -- just one of us, and one of the bums on the benches in the House and around the Cabinet table.

Here we are:
http://www.collectionscanada.ca/primeministers/index-e.html

The status of the prime minister has been described as primus inter pares: Latin for "first among equals." This concept defines not only the prime minister's relationship with Cabinet, but also, in a sense, his or her relationship with the public in our modern democratic society.

The PM isn't actually elected to that position, and is chosen for the position not by the voters, but by his/her party, with the agreement of the head of state/vice-head of state. It's just a transitory position, and it doesn't vest any special powers in the person constitutionally -- just whatever powers are assigned by legislation.

It is, I'd agree, a bit much for a head of state to be a dual citizen, just symbolically speaking, although I might be of two minds. In Ms. Jean's case, she acquired her other citizenship not by birth, but by marriage. (What did happen to her Haitian citizenship, btw?) It's not quite the inherent part of her personal identity that citizenship acquired by birth is, and I might think different in that case.

Actually, of course, it's of less real significance for the GG to have dual citizenship, since s/he has no power anyhow, so it's hardly likely to matter in the event that s/he turns out to have divided loyalties. Symbolically undesirable, but anything s/he did as a result would be no different from anything else s/he might try to do contrary to the wishes of the elected element of the government. Unacceptable in both cases.

In the case of dual citizenship by birth, I can't imagine why loyalties would be thought to be any more divided than for someone who had dual citizenship by birth and renounced the spare one. His/her ties to the other country, whatever they might be, aren't really likely to be severed by that formality, or to be stronger with the actual citizenship than without.

From what I've heard Dion say, being asked to give up the citizenship transmitted by his mother would feel kind of like being asked to give up one's surname. It's a personal thing, a heritage. Oh, yeah, it's probably not entirely sentimental; having another citizenship can be practically useful too, but so can having an inherited fortune. I find that more objectionable.

I voted "I don't care", btw. The issue is interesting in the abstract, but boring, and raised for blatantly partisan reasons only, in this particular instance. Just like how the opposition to naturalized US citizens being eligible for the presidency there is so often based solely on rejection of Arnold Schwarzenegger. I dislike both Liberal party leaders and Arnold Schwarzenegger, but I'm not going to base opinions about public policy issues on that basis.

[Bassic]

21. Well put. nt

[iverglas]

22. the Conservatives are just jealous

Phew, somebody else did the work; I wasn't planning to. ;)

http://origin.www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/12/08/mps-citizenship.html

The Parliament of Canada website shows that 41 of the 308 MPs sitting in the House of Commons were born in 28 countries other than Canada, ranging from Uganda and Malta to China and the United Kingdom.

... CBC.ca called their offices to check on their current status and found that the following MPs hold dual citizenships:

* Omar Alghabra (Ontario Liberal), with Syria.
* Raymond Chan (British Columbia Liberal), with the United Kingdom.
* Libby Davies (British Columbia NDP), with the United Kingdom.
* Jim Karygiannis (Ontario Liberal), with Greece.
* Wajid Khan (Ontario Liberal), with Pakistan.
* Maka Kotto (Quebec Bloc Québécois), with France.
* Pablo Rodriguez (Quebec Liberal), with Argentina.
* Michael Savage (Nova Scotia Liberal), with the United Kingdom.
* Mario Silva (Ontario Liberal), with Portugal.
* Lui Temelkovski (Ontario Liberal), with Macedonia.
* Myron Thompson (Alberta Conservative), with the United States.

Three of the foreign-born MPs' citizenship status remains unknown.

Har. Myron Thompson: the only Conservative and the only one born in the US. Quelle surprise.

http://www.myronthompson.com/bio.htm

Myron Thompson was born in 1936 in Monte Vista, Colorado.

He was raised on the family farm and resided there for 25 years.

He attended the University of Adams State, Colorado and received his B.A. in Business Administration and Education and then went on to do one year of Post Graduate studies. Myron also served two years in the US Military.

He moved to Sundre, Alberta in 1968 and became a Canadian Citizen in 1974.

Somehow, I doubt that he was resisting the draft. I'm afraid that I might indeed see divided loyalties in that one. Of course, I would see divided loyalgies in that one even if he'd been born in Joe Batt's Arm. Speaking of which ... would John Crosbie, f'r instance, qualify as foreign-born?

More details about the foreign-born on the benches:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/parliament39/mps-dualcitizenship.html

And cryptofascist Vic Toews was born in Paraguay. Now that's worth looking into. ... Oh dang, the parents were Mennonite missionaries. Or so we're told ...