Obama Should View Ralph Nader As An Asset, Not A Threat

[Better Believe It]

Obama should view Nader as an asset, not a threat
by Hamza Shaban
Cavalier Daily
September 5, 2008

WHILE Barack Obama has earned his party’s nomination, most Americans do not know Ralph Nader is running for president. In his stubborn way, Nader continues to dissent — even to a mass media that refuses to listen. But despite his lack of press and popularity, Nader can have a profound effect on the election — that is, if Obama takes his arguments seriously.

After an absurdly close 2000 election, Nader approached Sen. Kerry, D-Mass., with an election plan. In 2004, Nader met with Kerry to discuss three issues that he and Kerry would publicly debate. Given Bush’s corporate supporters, Nader knew that Bush would not come out against corporate welfare, corporate crime, and stifling labor laws. By debating these issues in front of the public, Nader believed Kerry would emerge a stronger candidate — more authentic and persuasively distinct against the incumbent Bush. But instead of leading the debate against government waste, corporate criminals and worker disempowerment, Kerry was framed as an appeasing, liberal weakling. Like Gore, Kerry did not take Nader — or his issues — seriously.

And still, today, Democrats view Nader as an unreasonable, dissenting pest. They fear Nader will steal their leftist support; they see him as diluting the party. But rather than trying to destroy Obama’s chance for victory, Nader wants to compete with him, so that the Senator may sharpen his platform.
Nader told me in a phone interview that since March 2007, he has been trying to reach out to the Obama campaign — only to be greeted with excuses and un-returned phone calls. Nader’s reason for calling was compelling: By working with Obama, Nader would allow us to hear a debate with a brand new voice, with arguments that do not resemble donkeys or elephants. Where Obama would argue that the war in Iraq has been mismanaged, Nader would say that our foreign policy has been hijacked. And where the Democrat claims that our military budget is necessary, the independent would say that our spending is tragic. But what about splitting the vote and “the spoiler” effect?

If Obama picks up some of Nader’s language, if he begins to speak the way McCain is forbidden, then the 2008 election will not be like Gore’s or Kerry’s. It will not be decided by butterfly ballots in Palm Beach County, the Supreme Court or Katherine Harris, not by swift boat veterans or the 20 delegates from the state of Ohio. If Obama listens to Nader he can become a more distinctive, authentic candidate. If the Democrat engages the independent he can embody a rhetoric of pragmatism. If Obama takes Nader seriously he can become the change we are hungry for, the one who wrests power from the few to the many.

Please read the entire article at:

http://www.cavalierdaily.com/news/2008/sep/05/the-obamanader/

[Forkboy]

1. ...

:popcorn:

[denem]

24. I noes use luvs yer sum Ralph Nader

..first thread I missteped into You and rabid anti-Nader guy.

[Better Believe It]

2. And Here's Some Interesting Information In The Polls

The Nader effect: Bad for Republicans?
August 27, 2008
Themorningcall.com

Ralph Nader, pursuing yet another run for president, isn't exactly a blip on the radar in battleground states. On the contrary, Nader is polling between 6 and 8 percent in Pennsylvania, Colorado, New Mexico and Nevada, a new Time/CNN poll shows.

A depressing sign for Democrats? Not exactly. Nader appears to be pulling almost all of his support from potential John McCain voters.

In Pennsylvania, for example, Barack Obama leads McCain by just 5 points (48 percent to 43 percent) when voters are asked to choose between the two, but 9 points (47 percent to 38 percent) when Nader is thrown into the mix. Nader gets 7 percent.

Maybe the Obama campaign should be helping to keep Nader on the ballot.

http://blogs.mcall.com/penn_ave/2008/08/the-nader-effec...

-------------------------------------------------

Does Nader hurt McCain in PA?
By Wally Edge
August 27, 2008
Politickerpa.com
In addition to showing U.S. Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) with a 5 point advantage (48 percent to 43 percent) over U.S. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), today's TIME/CNN poll also suggests that Obama's chances in the Keystone State may be boosted by the presence of third-party candidates on the ballot.

When voters were asked to choose among Obama, McCain and three third-party candidates, the Democrat's 5 point lead grew to 9 percentage points.

Obama leads McCain 47 percent to 38 percent, while independent candidate Ralph Nader attracts 7 percent of the vote and Libertarian candidate Bob Barr drew an additional 1 percent.

http://www.politickerpa.com/wallyedgepa/1513/does-nader...

[AtomicKitten]

3. In Ohio, Nader is a spoiler.

[maseman]

6. He's not on the ballot in Ohio

[AtomicKitten]

9. deleted link from 2004 ... doh!

[maseman]

13. Yeah the polling was bad here in Ohio

But it is confirmed he will not be on the ballot.

[Better Believe It]

17. Wrong You Are: Your Linked Article Is From 2004 !!!!!

Try and get up to date please.

Yikes!

:)

[Chan790]

20. I noticed that...

as soon as I got to the place where it said: Nader/Camejo. Nader's 2008 running mate is Matt Gonzalez, a former deputy public defender from San Francisco, not Peter Camejo.

I'm such a politics dork.

[AtomicKitten]

21. well, spank me!

I knew it was too good to be true! I know Nader submitted signatures to get on the ballot Rumor has it he was too late. I hope so.

[Better Believe It]

32. I Won't Do That Anyone Can Make A Mistake

Except me!!!!

:) :)

[Better Believe It]

8. And This Poll Confirms The Other Polls!

How are Nader or any 3rd party candidates "spoiling" the election? I don't think they will receive the votes of anyone that doesn't support them. Perhaps people shouldn't be allowed to vote them?

If it's true that Nader or anyone else is "spoiling" this election what do you propose to do about that? Do you think independent and/or 3rd party candidates should be excluded from elections or that people ought to be prevented from voting for candidates that you don't like?

How about leaving things as they are and requiring candidates, all of them, to earn any votes they get? That no candidate is entitled to the votes of another candidate if they should end their campaign before the election. If Nader were to do that, do you really believe that Obama would be entitled to all of the votes Nader gets should he withdraw? I bet the great majority of people who vote for Nader had absolutely no intention of voting for either McCain or Obama if Nader didn't run.

Check out this poll.

NBC/WSJ Poll: Obama keeps lead over McCain
Voters see Democrat as riskier pick, but rival has negatives of his own
By Mark Murray
Deputy political director
NBC News

After embarking on his highly publicized trip overseas, Obama enjoys a 47-41 percent advantage over McCain, which is unchanged from last month. The survey was conducted of 1,003 registered voters from Friday to Monday, July 18-21, during Obama's overseas trip. It has an overall margin of error of plus-minus 3.1 percentage points.

But Obama’s lead over McCain expands to 13 points when third-party candidates Ralph Nader and Bob Barr are added into the mix — with Obama at 48 percent, McCain at 35 percent, Nader at 5 percent and Barr at 2 percent.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25816799 /

-----------------------------

Could Third-Party Hopefuls Foil McCain?
AOL News

Polls show Republican John McCain and Democrat Barack Obama running close in the presidential election. But could third-party candidates siphon votes away from McCain, much as Ralph Nader was blamed for doing to Al Gore in 2000? The idea has been floating around for awhile, and this week's NBC News / Wall Street Journal poll underscores the possibility that such candidates could hurt McCain.

According to the poll results, Obama had a 6-point lead over McCain, even though most respondents thought he was a riskier pick for president. But when voters were asked to factor in two other candidates -- former GOP congressman Bob Barr, who's running for president as a Libertarian, and Nader, who's running as an independent -- Obama's lead opened up.

Here's how MSNBC summarized it: "... Obama’s lead over McCain expands to 13 points when third-party candidates Ralph Nader and Bob Barr are added into the mix — with Obama at 48 percent, McCain at 35 percent, Nader at 5 percent and Barr at 2 percent. However, it’s important to note that the pro-Obama (48 percent) and anti-Obama vote (adding up to 42 percent) is consistent with the result from the two-way match up."

http://news.aol.com/elections/article/could-third-party ...

[AtomicKitten]

10. self-delete because I don't know if he's on the ballot in Ohio or not

But polling yesterday indicated he spoils the race for Obama in Ohio. The search function is off now or I'd research that thread for you.

[AtomicKitten]

31. BTW the polling you refer to is from July. Current polling shows Nader screwing up Ohio.

I was stunned at the July polling nonetheless. That sure was a spectacular turn of events! I don't really care what Nader does but would prefer he stay off the ballot in states that could turn on his inclusion. The end-result of that is unthinkable.

[scheming daemons]

4. Every voter that Nader gets is one that SHOULD have gone to Obama... the OP is nonsense.

[Better Believe It]

14. That's Absolute Nonsense!

I know people who voted for Nader in 2000 and even 2004 who are Republicans but will never vote for a Democrat and won't this year! They hate Bush and McCain but think Nader is the most honest and consistent candidate in this election on issues like the war and civil liberties and just won't vote for McCain as long as they have the option to vote for Nader.

And you have many other progressive voters who will on principal never vote for a Republican or Democratic Party presidential candidate .... they will vote for a socialist candidate, a Green Party candidate or an independent candidate like Nader. Have you ever heard of Eugene V. Debs or Norman Thomas?
They ran for President lots of times and no Democrat or Republican ever called them "spoilers" or claimed their presidential candidate was entitled to the votes they received.

I suggest you read a bit about the political history of this nation and past election campaigns.

Why in world do you think all or most of the votes that Nader gets should go to Obama? What entitles him to those votes? Obama doesn't make that outrageous claim.

[scheming daemons]

22. 90% of Nader voters are more aligned with Dem values than GOP values....

If they vote for Nader, they are helping the "team" they like less.... the GOP.

[TwilightZone]

5. My, how disingenious.

"But rather than trying to destroy Obama’s chance for victory, Nader wants to compete with him, so that the Senator may sharpen his platform."

Sure he does.

[Faygo Kid]

7. Exactly. Nader wants attention. And using Obama would be the best way to get it.

It's all about Ralph.

[Occam Bandage]

11. Nader: "Someone please pay attention to me! Hey! Obama! Talk to me! Hey! I'm still around!"

[Bucky]

12. Yes, I see this: Everytime Nader says "Dems & the GOP are the same" he brings new votes to Obama.

Got the picture. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Better Believe It]

16. Got A Link For That Quote " " ?

[WinkyDink]

19. Yes, more than a couple:

The present campaign, led by TweedleDee, TweedleDum, Republican and Democrat, increasingly demonstrate that our political choices are becoming extraordinarily narrow,
http://www.albionmonitor.net/nader/rn-courage.html

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/103000-03.htm

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/apr2001/nad-a21.shtml

[Better Believe It]

29. Wrong Again! But Nader Sure Had Joseph Leiberman's Number!

Your quote of Nader was "Dems & the GOP are the same"

And I couldn't find that quote in any of your links.

And one of your sources, http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/apr2001/nad-a21.shtml, the so-called World Socialist Web Site is a nut outfit! They have no credibility anywhere, but especially among progressives and on the left. In their own words they proclaim: "The World Socialist Web Site is the Internet center of the International Committee of the Fourth International (ICFI)." This political sect not only opposed Nader but all Green Party candidates and also Gore, Kerry and now Obama in the presidential elections! And this is your reliable source for news and information?

Your interview link with Sam Donaldson was interesting. Nader didn't say "Dems & the GOP are the same" in that link.

However, Nader did in fact say in that interview: "Look at Senator Joe Lieberman. Could you figure out whether he’s a Democrat or a Republican this morning? Said he might have voted for Mr. Bork. He is for control of the civil justice system, making it harder for wrongfully injured people to sue companies with defective products. That’s a Republican position."

That was eight years ago and Nader sure understood exactly where Joseph Leiberman was headed! Did you understand?

Nader called that one right, didn't he?

[WinkyDink]

35. You are being too Jesuitical by half.

And maybe I didn't "vet" my sources, but if the words attributed to Nader are his, what matters the vehicle?

[MarjorieG]

15. If Nader cared about voting, he'd get recalled the crappy, electronic equipment.

[GreenPartyVoter]

30. Having had multiple elections stolen from them, you would think the Dems would too.

[MarjorieG]

36. I've already gone to DC, and impossible politics. An outside push is needed from Nader.

[WinkyDink]

18. This bee-yotch is TELLING OBAMA what to do, re: NADER?! STHU!!

[msallied]

23. Nader needs to think of a better way to help the state of today's politics

Than spoiling one election after another. Jesus.

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

25. I wonder if the GOP is financing "Saint Ralph" like they did in 2004

Nader should head for somewhere where someone might give a shit about him. An outer moon of Saturn suggests itself.

[Better Believe It]

33. Actually Kerry Got A Whole Lot More Money From Republicans Than Nader

And the Republicans for Obama will certainly raise millions for his campaign this year.

I don't see anything wrong with that.

Do you?

[No Elephants]

26. Asset? Is that what they call it now? Nader needs to go into a home.

[LSdemocrat]

27. If Nader really wanted to compete/debate as an ally he should have entered the Democratic primaries

[Better Believe It]

38. And Get Crushed Like Kucinich?

I'm sure that would work out just fine. Have you written to Nader and suggested that strategy?

[Rowdyboy]

28. He was a real asset in 2000 wasn't he. He gave the election to Bush/Cheney

Think he can do as well in 2008?

Fuck Ralph Nader and the horse he rode in on. He's scum and deserves nothing but contempt.

[Better Believe It]

34. Joseph Leiberman Certainly Did!

And he's at it again in 2008!

[Danger Mouse]

37. Obama should view Ralph Nader as an asshat, not a threat.

There, I fixed your headline for you.

[Better Believe It]

39. For The Sunday Crew