I have a very important question to be answered....

[lmbradford]

Since Obama asked the full Michigan and Florida delegates to come to the convention, does that mean that H Clinton can actually call for a vote and stage a coup of some sort by counting the delegates that Obama has invited since he got the supposed nomination? Have the last two months just been some sort of sham on the part of the Clintons? I am praying that my suspicions are wrong, but for some reason I can't trust the clintons about this. Does anyone have the answer to this based on actual rules and not speculation?

Thanks for the help....

[ruggerson]

1. lol

[RNdaSilva]

30. Refer to 27.

It ain't gonna happen.

[gateley]

2. I have another question --

Since Obama wasn't on the ballot in MI, does that mean he wouldn't have any delegates?

This whole thing makes my head hurt.

Sorry I don't know the answer to your question, lmbradford, but maybe somebody will happen by who can enlighten both of us. :hi:

[sandnsea]

5. Delegates can vote for whoever they want

Technically. So the MI delegates can vote for the nominee regardless of the vote in the state, which is what usually happens.

[gateley]

10. Thank you.

This is the first election where I've actually paid attention. I obviously never paid attention in school. :hi:

[sandnsea]

3. Delegates can vote for whoever they want

Yep, a "coup" is absolutely possible.

[kristyt]

8. Only in a the Technical Sense

Clinton couldn't do that and hope to get elected, and she knows it. This is just silliness. Yes possible, but the Clintons aren't idiots...they are lots of things but not stupid.

Not that I have any idea of what this business has been about the last couple days, but it wasn't about doing anything publicly to hurt Obama's chances. Either they're putting Hillary in as VP, or working a deal for the debt, or making sure their choice of VP other than Hillary is chosen. My total guesses.

[The Magistrate]

4. Not A Chance, Ma'am

The increased number of delegates in those delegations would not close the gap even if all were alloted to Sen. Clinton, which they will not be. That was evident even when the half delegations were decided, and gave the whole thing the air of a tempest in a teapot. Much as it may pain some, there is going to be nothing cloak and dagger on the convention floor....

[lmbradford]

7. Increased number of delegations?

Please explain a little more, I'm not totally getting how the number of delegates vs delegations were chosen and I know that since Obama is the nominee then some of the delegates will pledge to that but isn't it still entirely up to them? What if the Clinton's have been working behind the scenes? Please help me understand this whole thing a little better....

Thanks

[The Magistrate]

16. At Present, Ma'am

Each delegate from Michigan and Florida casts half a vote. The delagtes from Michigan are apportioned between Sen. Obama and Sen. Clinton by a formula worked up by the Michigan state Party, which essentially awards to Sen. Obama every vote cast for 'un-committed', and the votes cast for other candidates than Sen. Clinton. If memory serves, this netted Sen. Clinton something like sixteen half votes over Sen. Obama. The Florida delegation is apportioned by the rules in place, and Sen. Clinton has a larger margin there, but the number has faded from my mind entirely, as it was of no importance in the face of the gap in pledged delegates overall. Even if all delegates receive a full vote, Sen. Obama would still have more pledged delegate votes. Therefore the concession is meaningless save as a gesture of conciliation to the state Parties of Michigan and Florida, which it is hoped will improve their morale, and so improve Sen. Obama's chances of victory in those states.

Neither candidate commands sufficient pledged delegates to gain a majority. The majority will be provided by the at large delegates (the 'super-delegate' term grates badly on my ears), representing office-holders and Party officials. Those who have declared they will vote for Sen. Obama will do so, and he will have a majority in hand going into the roll call. Nothing is going to change this.

[lmbradford]

18. wasn't that the case when half the delegation was seated......

When Obama asked the full delegations to be present didn't he nullify those numbers or am I in a zone? It is my understanding the with the full delegations of those two states the numbers put Hillary over by just a bit. Does anyone have the actual count so that the speculation can stop? Gosh politics is infuriating......Why can't it all be just a little more simple?

[The Magistrate]

20. Today, Ma'am, The Pledged Delegate Gap Is 127 In Favor Of Sen. Obama

If all delegates from Florida and Michigan cast full votes instead of half votes, that gap would narrow to 89 in favor of Sen. Obama.

[lmbradford]

21. OH THANK YOU!

I was a little scared because I had heard conflicting accounts of that number.

YOU R GREATLY APPRECIATED!

[The Magistrate]

23. Poke Around Here, Ma'am, To Put Your Mind At Rest

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_delegate_count.html

[sandnsea]

15. Most likely not, but it is possible

If Florida and Michigan delegates get it in their heads that they can right a perceived wrong, and that idea spreads, who knows what will happen.

[The Magistrate]

17. It Is Possible, Ma'am, But Only The Same Sense

That it is possible that on my next trip to the corner store for cigarettes there will be an open briefcase full of hundred dollar bills by the entrance to the dry-cleaners on the left hand side of the street. Though hope springs eternal, such an encounter is never seriously looked for on such an expedition, and my expectation the trip will result only in a resupply of tobacco has yet to be disappointed. Some people seem to enjoy scaring themselves, but that is not one of my tastes: my willingness to voluntarily undergo fear has always been linked to some material profit looming at the other end of the experience once it has been successfully mastered through.

[sandnsea]

19. You're talking pure fantasy

and there is a basis in reality for delegates to switch their votes. It is highly unlikely, but it the exact same scenario that kept the primary going on through June. Perhaps some people who realize how stupid the scenario is now, will realize how stupid it was for Hillary to get into millions of dollars of debt and drag the primary out the way she did in the first place.

[The Magistrate]

22. People Have Found Briefcases Full Of Money, Ma'am

It is at least as likely as it is the count at the convention will switch on the first roll call.

But if the specter entertains you, by all means, indulge yourself.

[sandnsea]

24. Same odds as Hillary had to win the primary

She didn't find it stupid in March or April or May. Why should I be required to find it stupid now. Theoretically, she's got the MI & FL delegates she said would give her the win. This is her specter.

I was answering a question and answering it factually. I don't see why you have a problem with facts.

[The Magistrate]

25. Those Delegates, Ma'am, Do Not Give Her A Lead In Pledged Delegate Strength

What Sen. Clinton hoped to turn in the latter stages of the primary campaign was the balance of at large delegates, those appointed by the Parry, and comprising office-holders and Party functionaries and noteables. Since neither candidate ever had a majority consisting of pledged delegates only, that remained a theoretical hope, though obviously a forlorn one by April. It was my view Sen. Clinton ought to have taken the high note of her victory in Indiana to concede, as the outcome was clear enough in outline by then. But some people will play out the string; there is no help for it. Now that a decisive majority of the Party delegates have publicly committed to Sen. Obama, the thing is over: they will not go back on their word. No one of their fellows would ever trust them in a back-room deal in future if they did, and they would be ruined. The thing is not going to happen, and a gesture of conciliation to the state Parties of Michigan and Florida, which is what this alteration of the terms of their delegations' seating is, is not going to set up an opportunity for pulp fiction shenanigans.

[sandnsea]

26. Some people will play out the string

Every time I thought Hillary would surely end it, she didn't. So it certainly wouldn't surprise me to find out she was trying to find those extra delegates or move some super delegates. That was always her plan. In today's politics, it seems like everything is overlooked a week after it happens, so I don't think there are too many loyalty issues. This is highly unlikely, but I wouldn't call it unreasonable to admit that it could happen.

[The Magistrate]

27. It Is Exactly As Reasonable And Possible, Ma'am, As That Brief-Case Full Of Hundreds

It will not, repeat not, happen.

[RNdaSilva]

29. Yep...

[goodgd_yall]

6. Yeah, the Clintons are just evil, EVIL I TELL YOU!

:crazy:

[kristyt]

9. Is Lieberman Going to Speak At the GOP's?

Speaking of evil.

[lmbradford]

13. That is just silly...

I don't believe that the Clintons are evil. Those are your words, not mine. I do think that they are very motivated and won't give up if there is an inkling of a chance to win. I think they are determined not evil. I simply want to know what the possibilities are and be prepared. I don't like being ignorant so I want the truth about what could happen. Is that so hard to understand? I like Hillary and I also like Obama. I don't however think that someone should be able to stage some sort of coup at the convention when the primary results in a winner.

[eshfemme]

11. Yes, I'm a little worried about that myself... n/t

[Metric System]

12. Yes, that evil Hillary is FORCING Obama to fully seat the delegates of MI and FL so she can steal

the nomination!!!

[lmbradford]

14. please read my previous reply...

This evil stuff is just silly. I want information, not to fight because I asked.

[kdpeters]

28. Question: if we don't enforce consequences, then what's the point of having rules?

Just how long are we willing to let the presidential campaign last? What if Iowa one day pushes its caucuses up before the congressional midterms are held? I thought this thing had been settled already.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

31. Here's the technical, logical, factual, informative answer to your very important question:

One rusty bucket of runny goatshit.

[JoFerret]

32. Paranoia

Please try to contain it.

[polichick]

33. If there is a way for the Clintons to change the outcome, they will...

But I don't know if it's possible ~ hopefully Obama is smart enough to know he can't trust them.

[windbreeze]

34. I find it interesting..

how the minute anyone asks a question regarding something untoward possibly happening at convention...there are those who jump in with the "yes, the Clinton's are so evil" meme...I wonder why that is...I didn't hear anyone up to that point in this thread, call anyone "evil"...but I have seen this happen in so many threads that it begins to become suspicious....as though it's an(intimidation/distraction)tactic being implemented to keep a discussion of such things from taking place....

These are my observations
I read that this nomination was promised to her by tptb.....I posted the link when I first mentioned it months ago and commented that as a result of what I had read, I was going to sit back and watch to see how it played out..I must admit I've been a little surprised by things to this point, considering...
Her political history shows she does nothing for no reason, for every action she takes, she has a purpose and a result in mind...that doesn't make her evil necessarily, it makes her quite determined, and how she is viewed by others, is then determined by the tactics she uses to get the results she wants...
That she underestimated Obama is obvious...

That there are Clinton supporters who have not given up on her taking this to convention, is a fact...for those of you who believe these people do NOT exist...I guarantee you, they most certainly do...

OH, and by the way, I said nothing about either of the Clinton's being evil...but I believe until Obama locks the nomination at the convention...he's called the "presumptive nominee"...we best not forget the tenacity with which Ms.Clinton held on during the primaries...and question exactly how many delegates would have to switch??? how much of a hold might the Clinton's have on any of them?...do we know if any of them have been worked on to switch back to her, since June??....imo..we shouldn't think anything is impossible..instead we need to keep an open mind....and keep our fingers crossed that the genius of Obama is on top of it...wb

[polichick]

38. I said nothing about "evil" either - it's all about a quest for power...

Anyone who knows the Clintons knows that if there is a way to change the outcome of the primaries, they will do it. It's been a lifelong quest and it's not just supporters behind the convention tactics.

[windbreeze]

39. I know...

you didn't...I was agreeing while bringing up some other points I have thought about...wb

[polichick]

40. This morning I was talking with a friend who's been a political writer for decades...

...and he said, "Hold onto your seat; what's happening isn't just about the supporters."

(I knew you were agreeing, just wanted to be clear that I wasn't suggesting the Clintons were "evil" ~ people here seem to jump to that conclusion if you criticize them in any way.)

[windbreeze]

42. That does not surprise me at all....

and yes, you were perfectly clear.... wb

[SheilaT]

35. Pledged delegates

(of which Obama holds enough to clinch the nomination) are pledged through some number of ballots. Maybe just one, maybe four, I don't feel like bothering to research that.

And having run to be an Obama delegate myself in Kansas (and lost) I can tell you that many, possibly all Obama delegates are fierce in their support of that man and will NOT switch their vote to Hillary or anyone else.

The problem is that a lot of people here do not really understand just how the nominating process works, and how delegates are selected, and how they are bound to the person they're pledged to. Many of them are some degree of party faithful, if not, they're intensely loyal to the person they're pledged to. I am getting a little weary of postings by Hillary fantasists who still think there is some way she will become the nominee. She lost. Please get over it and support Obama.

[windbreeze]

41. I was a delegate once

so I understand how regular delegates are chosen...but the SD are not chosen the same way....

http://uspolitics.about.com/od/2008elections/tp/super_delegates.htm

"It has been 30 years since the Democratic Party had a cliffhanger going into the Convention. If there is no clear winner after state primaries and caucuses, then the super-delegates -- who are bound only by their consciences -- will decide the nominee."


It seems that the word "IF" could carry a bit of weight..in more than one way...

wb

[SheilaT]

43. I doubt very many of the Super Delegates

are going to switch to Hillary, not at this late date.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

36. I have another question....

Why are you trying to stir stuff up for no reason?

[H2O Man]

37. Where? n/t

[27inCali]

44. Clintons went overboard in the primaries

but they aren't stupid/

even avid supporters would never forgive them for causing 4 more years/