Obama is so far to the left, its scary.

[adoraz]

says my conservative friend.

Alright, this guy has been my best friend since I was in 5th grade, but he keeps on trying to get me to vote for McCain. He has brought this up many times in the last few months, and each time its always a long debate. I pretty much owned him in the conversation yesterday on a lot of occasions, simply because I knew what I was talking about and when he talks about McCain he sounds ignorant.

He is one of those people who still supports Bush. He is a really cool guy, but he has been a pain with all the emails.

First, he started talking about Obama's pastor months ago and told me that I should be very offended by it (yeah, right...). He literally told me that no white should vote for him after that.

Yesterday in a conversation he talked for hours about how bad Obama would be for the economy. I sarcastically mentioned how Bush is doing an excellent job handling the economy, and that Bush 2.0 should do just as well.

He literally said "Obama is so far to the left its scary". I told him that Obama may be very liberal, but he WILL work with Republicans and people of all different viewpoints. He's not going to change the whole country to liberal (Bush is currently doing that). I would have no problem if Obama turned the USA blue, in fact I would love for that to happen, but since he is extremely conservative I tried reassuring him that Obama wasn't going to cause the end of his party.

Then he said a bunch more shit. I don't really feel like talking about it though. I couldn't believe that a guy who has been so awesome throughout the years and has always been so reasonable was saying this stuff.

I really hate this. He has been my best friend for an extremely long time, and I never had a problem like this with him. He keeps bringing it up and arguing, and I always avoid bringing it up. He even sent me a Muslim email which annoyed the hell out of me.

When I got a VIP seat and was on national TV (behind Obama in his NC victory speech), I sent a long email telling him about it, and he didn't even respond. He always responds to all of my emails.

He is also extremely defensive about McCain, yet writes a lot of shit about Obama and expects me to suck it all in.

Anyone else have this type of problem? I don't know why he even cares. My vote won't change the outcome anyways.

[dkf]

1. Just be reasonable and show him where he is wrong.

Its okay to have different opinions and maybe he will learn something along the way.

[adoraz]

2. I always am, but he never is on this issue

which is why its so frustrating. For pretty much everything, he has always been extremely reasonable but he has this "vote for McCain or else" mentality.

I really don't understand it. I actually LOVE debating politics with friends, but I am shocked that out of all my friends he is the only one being unreasonable about this.

[dkf]

12. Well if he still likes Bush, you already know he is beyond reason.

Humor em I say. Think of him as missing a few brain cells. Thats what I do.

[adoraz]

15. well, he admits Bush isn't exactly a great President

but he still supports him

[dkf]

20. Hey, at least he can admit that much.

My favorite Aunty thinks God wants Bush to be President. Sigh.

[adoraz]

21. LOL! ugh...

[unpossibles]

31. that's the saddest part

people who voted twice for Bush now complain about him (well, some of them anyway), and will just go vote for McCain anyway. ugh

[Indenturedebtor]

60. Your friend has been brainwashed

My brother had been as well. I've been working on him for years, and he's slowly turning around. He recently said that he will likely vote for Obama this year!

Don't give up hope. But don't be afraid to be completely honest, and present evidence to your arguments that comes from sources he trusts (except Faux News).

[DeschutesRiver]

54. Buy him a copy of The Audacity of Hope

and tell him that when he finishes it, you'd like to talk about it with him. Honestly, I don't think it is likely that he could read that book (dry, but helpful as to how Obama thinks in his own words) and not wonder why he thought Obama was such an extreme lefty.

I am halfway through it and Obama comes across as well reasoned and sensible in his efforts to be inclusive of many different world views in the way he sets policy. Which is more than McCain could ever be capable of doing. I am an Independent voter, so I don't have any particular party line I must adhere to; but I don't care for the exclusivity needs of people who only promote either far left or far right (esp. religious) agendas as the only way everyone must be treated. I'd hate to think he believes that Obama is that narrow minded, when he is actually a fair minded individual. Good luck.

[panader0]

3. "he is a really cool guy and he is one of those people who still

support bush" do not belong in the same sentence together.

[adoraz]

5. LOL! I know its hard to believe...

but he really is an awesome, awesome guy.

He is extremely nice, reasonable, caring, etc, but politics has been a complete 180 so that's why I'm so shocked. Its not just that he supports Bush/McCain, that isn't an issue at all for me. The issue is that HE has such a big issue with me supporting Obama.

[last_texas_dem]

44. I know where you are coming from

I have a best friend who I consider to be a great guy but he was a Bush supporter up until a couple of years ago. I had some difficulty squaring the fact that I thought he was really cool and a great friend, but still thought the world of that jerk-off. About a year and a half ago, though, Bush's lies regarding the war just sunk in or something, and he "saw the light." He has always tended to agree more with the Democrats on economic issues, but was more likely to vote for Repugs for President; he's an evangelical Christian and agrees with the R's on major social issues. However, due to McSame's stance on the war, he is definitely not supporting him; he'll probably either not vote for Pres., vote third party (Barr?), or possibly go for Obama- maybe if I nag him enough. TX is out of play, anyway, but there's just something awesome about seeing folks who voted Bush both times going for Obama!

[yellowdogintexas]

62. hey, I have a friend like that too. Woman friend, been one of my closest

female friends since maybe 1979. She was the "best woman" in our wedding (instead of best man for my husband) in 1982.

Attorney
Smart
Environmentalist
former NPS employee @ Mammoth Cave
avid caver
socially quite liberal...pro choice, supportive of gay rights, self defined as socially liberal fiscally conservative.

Served in the Reagan and BushI EPA

Our other best friend and I absolutely can NOT figure out this whole Republican thing. We call it her character flaw. When she hits us on being Democrats, we just smile and come back with the fabulous state of the economy these days since the R's came back, change the subject and go on to more compatible things.

But we still would walk through fire for each other. The 3 of us have been through some major good and bad times and don't get to see each other nearly often enough but when we do it is like we just left off last week.

[Kierkegaard]

7. I hate to cast aspersions on someone that I don't know, but

I have to agree with you on this one.

[adoraz]

10. you have to trust me on this.

I completely understand why you feel that way, but in the past he has always been a friend who had all the perfect qualities a friend usually would have............ Just not on this issue, which is why I am incredibly shocked by how he is handling this.

I know though, it is very hard to believe. :)

[Kierkegaard]

23. You're right. It's hard to imagine, but certainly possible.

I know it's frustrating when someone is being stubborn and refuses to see beyond their own narrow point of view -- especially when it is uncharacteristic of them. Unfortunately, I don't have anything constructive to tell you to help you transcend that divide other than to stick to your guns and give it time.

[butterfly77]

4. The closer it gets to the election..

we many will begin to see more of this as they see their smears aren't working...

[adoraz]

6. My mom got like 5 Obama is Osama emails.

And she NEVER discusses politics with her friends. The big majority of people don't even know who she is supporting, and the people who sent her the emails sure don't.

Those emails really are terrible. I hate scare tactics. They are pathetic.

[Cha]

8. He may be a "really cool guy" but

he has issues and they're deeper than you could fix or anyone without his being struck by the electric bolt outta the Blue and getting some enlightenment.

[adoraz]

14. yeah, and I never saw these issues in the past

I know what his issue is, he is very scared of America becoming more liberal. He is handling it very immaturely though.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

9. What is "scary" is the country being so far right and what the

results have been to all of us. Point that out to him.

[high density]

11. I had about the same conversation today with my Republican grandfather

He was talking about some BS that O'Reilly was pumping where Obama was supposedly going to give every poor person a house or some such bullshit. O'Reilly pushing the standard 'conservative' POV, "I picked myself up by the bootstraps and I pay so much (millions) in income taxes just to have it given to these other people." I just told my grandfather that I'm pretty focused in on Obama's campaign but I haven't heard any proposals like that. I also told my Grandfather that Obama's tax plan as it is would likely give me a $1,000+ tax cut. Then I reminded him that before Reagan, we were looking at a 90% upper tax bracket, compared with the low levels it is at now. Then my granddad wondered, what happens if I was making $250k a year? Well I told him that if I were making that and my tax liability went up, I think I could probably afford the higher taxes. (As it is I have not yet broken the $50k barrier.)

Anyhow I just brought up Iraq at that point and that was enough to get him off this O'Lielly bullshit and onto high oil prices, waste of lives/money over there, etc.

The problem is that the playing field in any discussion with a modern Republican is so warped. They are listening to Fox News or Limbaugh and getting total garbage information, then it is virtually impossible to have a coherent argument with them. When the first question set up by the other side is something along the lines of, "When did you stop beating your wife?" it's impossible to have a meaningful discussion on the issues.

[adoraz]

17. yeah we talked about that

On the issue of the economy, I mentioned that the Iraq war is costing us trillions of dollars, which obviously isn't good for it.

Sounds like you did have a similar conversation. I just needed to talk with some people on here about it, because I almost went crazy during a few points in the conversation.

[high density]

19. I makes me feel crazy ,too

Some of the stuff is simply so absurd and untrue, but so many people accept it without question.

[cleveramerican]

13. Kucinich ,Sharpton, Gravel are left, Obama is centrist by comparison

[treestar]

16. I ask people like this why they are so against a safety net for

the poor.

And then also, the definition of "socialist" or "Marxist" (terms they through around) do not fit that. Memorize those definitions then ask them how does Obama really advocate anything like the state owning the means of production?

If they change their minds, they won't do it right off, but just a little juggling of their minds could be a nudge, or a contributor, to their waking up out of their ignorance. Get them to the point where they are out of their depth. They don't know what a Socialist is - they just repeat that talking point.

[adoraz]

18. good point, I don't understand it either

through Obama's plan, my father would be taxed more (he makes 200,000 a year), but it will be well worth it. The poor needs a safety nets.

[24HRrnr]

56. Nice of you

to stick it to your pop.

How 'bout ponying up some money yourself too? That part seemed to be missing.

FWIW, I don't make what your father does - yet - and found a spot to donate $500 this weekend. I volunteer for the American Cancer Society, the local junior high school track and xcountry teams and a couple of other folks.

I'll bet your father is equally generous. Most well off folks of my acquintance (in SE WA that's mostly conservatives) are. Good people are good people and many wealthy individuals, regardless of political persausion, got their money by making customers or clients better or easier.

Think about it.

Then go help somebody. Personally. Without taking someone else's money for your pet project.

/rant

[butterfly77]

58. Some people cry about safety nets but...

they always pretend as though this country takes care of its people, and they can't seem to connect the fact that crime is due to people without jobs and other factors...

[anonymous171]

22. We should invite Kucinich to the debates to show people what a true "leftist" looks like.

[Cha]

25. Wonder if they'll have

nader and barr? :evilgrin:

[Hawaii Hiker]

24. The truth is, your friend is so far to the right, that I'd bet he labels any Democrat FAR LEFT

except for the recently retired insane, Zell Miller...

Obama's voting record in the senate is one of a centrist...

[Quantess]

26. Let me get this straight:

According to your friend, Obama is extremely liberal while simultaneously being Muslim?

Is that even possible? :crazy:

[adoraz]

40. LOL!...well I know he doesn't really believe the muslim thing

but he uses it for "scare" tactics.

[Quantess]

55. To still think that Barack Obama is a muslim...

I would hope that most people are smarter than that.

LOL, maybe the ones who repeat the "muslim" lie are hoping that someone else is dumb enough to believe it.

[barack the house]

27. Sounds like he is more selling Obama to you. Obama is to the left as it should be.

[blogslut]

28. Agree to disagree

And tell him that for the sake of your friendship - no more political talk.

[adoraz]

41. yeah I'll have to do that

I'm not bringing it up for this very reason, but if he continues starting arguments I'll tell him.

[Raine]

29. Tell him for the sake of your friendship

you will both have to agree to disagree because you aren't going to change each others opinions. Tell him that from here on out there will be NO discussion of politics and that includes propaganda emails. If you like and respect each other as friends that should end the whole thing and neither of you should violate the agreement. I have to do this with relatives, we don't discuss politics. I still love them even though they reTHUGs.

[adoraz]

42. yep good idea

[Skittles]

30. your friend is an idiot n/t

[ingac70]

33. I second that....

Anyone who spouts the RNC talking points like that has an intellectual disability.

[Skittles]

34. honestly, I cannot be friends with people like that

to me they are willfully ignorant and I find that intolerable

[ingac70]

35. I quit hanging around...

the first friend I ever made (met at 4 years old, 32 years ago) almost three years ago because of her right wing shit.

[Skittles]

38. there comes a time, ingac

that had to be difficult but I too refuse to put up with it - I had to get rid of a fairly good friend not long ago when their opposition to immigration turned to outright racism - I finally just said, no more.

[Zhade]

52. Indeed. It's like those who deny videos that prove there was no sniper fire at Tuzla.

NT!

[crankychatter]

32. just direct him to DU-P, then he'll "get it" that Obama is a closet conservative

all the hipsters say so

:sarcasm:

icon added for all the concrete thinkers up in this house

[rasputin1952]

36. And just how far to the Right has bush/cheney gone? THAT's

SCARY!!!!!!

I'm surprised we have a Constitution and a Bill of rights after these assholes have had nearly 8 years of Royal Power!

[ingac70]

37. That silly fucker doesn't know what "liberal" is....

and wouldn't know it if it came up and bit him on the ass.

Tell him like I tell my Repug cousin.... "do yourself a favor and stop listening to the radio!"

[annabanana]

39. phooey

It's not that hard to show how NOT "far left" Obama is. That whole "most liberal Senator in Congress" is just the title that some group ALWAYS gives the Democratic nominee.

Does he know that Bernie Sanders is a (gasp) ACTUAL SOCIALIST? Does he think that Obama is left of Kucinich?

[quakerboy]

43. Dad

Enuf said?

[sellitman]

45. I would enjoy a chance to clash with your friend politically.

Most of my repiggy friends now hate bush. They still won't vote Democratic but the air has been sucked out of them and their remaining arguments are very porous. I do have a co-worker friend who still worships bush though. We pop each other on and off with various jabs but for the most part its like pissing upstream. I gave up long ago. We just enjoy ribbing each other now.

[Doctor_J]

46. He's either a sociopath, or in some sort of delusional state

either way he's in need of psychological help. Anyone who is still supporting McSame is either brainwashed (can't distinguish fact from Big Media lies), or really hates people in general.

[adoraz]

47. ouch... lol. well thats a little harsh.

I don't agree, but in a way I do agree.

I can't see how anyone could support McCain.

I find it incredibly insulting to Obama that McCain is polling so well.

[loves_dulcinea]

48. punch him in the mouth and call him a ninny

[CrispyQ]

49. You can't talk to these types & nothing you say will change their minds.

If you want to remain friends I would suggest you put a nix on talking politics.

[Blondiegrrl]

50. Most Republicans think Obama is extremely liberal.

I had a similar conversation with a customer at my restaurant about a week ago. He described himself as a "moderate Republican" and said the reason the Democrats keep losing in the general elections is because they keep nominating "extreme, radical leftists" instead of moderates. Of course, he also went on to describe George W. Bush as "moderate." :eyes:

Obama, in my opinion, is only slightly to the left of center. The only true Democratic liberal this time around was/is Dennis Kucinich.

[TBF]

53. Heh. They think McCain is liberal too. Long-time conservatives are

really pissed off about their candidate. I wouldn't be surprised if there are some shenanigans at their convention to replace him.

[Zhade]

51. "...still supports Bush... is a really cool guy"

Does. Not. Compute.

[bjobotts]

57. What is far left? Polls show most Americans agree with what is being called far left

[salguine]

59. I wish he was as far left as that guy thinks he is.

[anonymous171]

61. Maybe we should try and get Nader+Barr invited to the Debates.

Show people what "far left" actually looks like.