Blast from the Past: Clinton, Obama and Edwards Join Pledge to Avoid Defiant States

[VolcanoJen]

Let's try this one more time, since it appears to be such a difficult concept in the here-and-now.

Clinton, Obama and Edwards Join Pledge to Avoid Defiant States - NY Times, September 2007

Hours after Senator Barack Obama of Illinois and former Senator John Edwards of North Carolina agreed to sign a loyalty pledge put forward by party officials in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York followed suit. The decision seemed to dash any hopes of Mrs. Clinton relying on a strong showing in Florida as a springboard to the nomination.

“We believe Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina play a unique and special role in the nominating process,” Patti Solis Doyle, the Clinton campaign manager, said in a statement.

The pledge sought to preserve the status of traditional early-voting states and bring order to an unwieldy series of primaries that threatened to accelerate the selection process. It was devised to keep candidates from campaigning in Florida, where the primary is set for Jan. 29, and Michigan, which is trying to move its contest to Jan. 15.

So, why is Hillary changing her mind? Will she "reject" and "denounce" her own loyalty pledge? Does her audacious hypocrisy bother none of her supporters?

[virtualobserver]

1. she'll fight for you, when it benefits her.....until it doesn't benefit her anymore

[VolcanoJen]

4. Why is it so difficult for so many of her supporters to see that?

It's clear as day to me.

[virtualobserver]

6. the Hillary supporters who are not disturbed by her behavior.......

agree with Hillary that winning is everything. It doesn't matter how you get there.

[LaurenG]

2. Apparently not

:shrug:

[Swamp Rat]

3. Maybe she signed a new oath with another group of "people?"

:think:

http://www.swamp-rat.com/4images/details.php?image_id=304&sessionid=f71580b80c753cc3d42cdc6366e3a478

[VolcanoJen]

5. Another terrific graphic, Swamp!

I guess new oaths trump old oaths. :-)

[rndmprsn]

7. oh the irony....Patti Solis Doyle is now interviewing for the OBAMA campaign

hehe

[VolcanoJen]

9. For real????

Not seriously, right? :crazy:

[Skip Intro]

8. I'm sorry, but the pledge per the article you quote says only that the candidates wouldn't campaign

in those states. That is all that article is about. Yes, it mentions that the DNC could penalize those states by stripping them of their delegates, but the article is about the pledge, and refers to the pledge only in terms of not campaigning.

Hillary didn't campaign in either state. Obama, accidentally of course :eyes: is the only candidate who ran ads in FL, and the only Dem campaigning in MI was for *uncommitted.*

Also, Dodd, who signed the pledge, left his name on the MI ballot. Obama was not obliged to take his name off the ballot, and did so clearly, to those not blinded, to pander to Iowa and the other early states.

The article you link to does not back the assertion you make. The pledge was not to campaign in those states, and Hillary did not campaign in those states.

Here's another article on the situation from January:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/09/04/primary.calendar/

[VolcanoJen]

10. OK. I expected the Hillary supporters to parse this to death.

Thanks for confirming.

[Skip Intro]

14. No parsing. Read the OP. Read the article. It doesn't back up the assertions.

[VolcanoJen]

15. See Post #11. Concise. Clear. Factual.

So you're alleging that Patty Solis-Doyle was speaking with a forked tongue to the New York Times. That's interesting.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

11. The DNC voted to strip Florida and Michigan of their delegates...

Back in January, Hillary was all right with that because she thought the she would win the nomination by Super Tuesday with or without them. Now that she's fighting for her political life and every delegate helps her cause, she'd completely reversed her position.

It's as blatant an act of political calculation as I've ever seen.

She has no ethics.
She has no principles.

And she damned sure doesn't deserve to be President.

[havocmom]

12. Nail, hammer, WHACK!

:thumbsup:

[VolcanoJen]

16. Thank you!

That's it in a nutshell, Jeff. Her flawed post-Super Tuesday non-strategy is what led her to do a 180 on Michigan and Florida.

It's the simplest thing in the world to most of us. :-)

[Skip Intro]

19. She did not pledge that the dels wouldn't be seated, she pledged not to campaign.

That's just a fact. The OP alleges Hillary broke a pledge, then cites an article defining the pledge as one barring campaigning in those states. Hillary did not campaign in those states. That was the pledge, she did not break it.

But let's tell those voters to go to hell. Let's see how much better our chances will be in Nov if we go that route.

[Johnny__Motown]

33. Only if you edit the pledge to the last paragraph

http://chrisdodd.com/media/releases/chris-dodd-signs-pledge-early-caucus-and-primary-states

This is from August '07

The full pledge is below:

WHEREAS, Over a year ago, the Democratic National Committee established a 2008 nominating calendar;

WHEREAS, this calendar honors the racial, ethnic, economic and geographic diversity of our party and our country;

WHEREAS, the DNC also honored the traditional role of retail politics early in the nominating process, to insure that money alone will not determine our presidential nominee;

WHEREAS, it is the desire of Presidential campaigns, the DNC, the states and the American people to bring finality, predictability and common sense to the nominating calendar.

THEREFORE, I, Christopher J. Dodd, Democratic Candidate for President, pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any state which schedules a presidential election primary or caucus before Feb. 5, 2008, except for the states of Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina, as "campaigning" is defined by rules and regulations of the DNC.



Please take special notice of the ..."finality, predictability and common sense to the nominating calendar" portion and try to reconcile that with going to the convention for a hopeless plea to overturn the elected delegate majority,

[Skip Intro]

37. What comes after. "THEREFORE, I, Christopher J. Dodd, Democratic Candidate for President, pledge" ?

this is what came after that, "pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any state which schedules a presidential election primary or caucus before Feb. 5, 2008, except for the states of Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina, as "campaigning" is defined by rules and regulations of the DNC.


That was the pledge - not to campaign, which Obama skirted to a degree, and "uncommited" recieved a full-fledged campaign.

Funny you should choose Dodd to try to make your point. He actually left his name on the MI ballot, as did Hillary.

Kinda ironic, eh?

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

42. The new definition of "Is"

She managed to re-create Bill's most cowardly and despicable moment before ever taking the oath of office. If that's her best defense, she doesn't deserve the Office of President.

[Window]

20. Short, concise and to the point.

:thumbsup:

[Lucky 13]

25. !

:applause:

[MonkeyFunk]

41. Obama took his name off the ballot in Michigan

to pander to Iowa and New Hampshire, and to try to damage Clinton.

It's as blatant an act of political calculation as I've ever seen.

He said he wouldn't campaign in Florida, but he did.

He has no ethics.
He has no princoples.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

43. Bullshit...

ALL the candidates agreed that the results of the primaries wouldn't count. The rules were NOT set in place by Obama to pander to Iowa or New Hampshire or anyone else -- they were put in place by the DNC (including representatives from Hillary's OWN campaign) to ensure the integrity of the process. Unlike Hillary, Obama is sticking by what he promised to do.

[stillcool]

34. oh my goodness...it never ends...

December 1, 2007, 11:42 am
Democrats Strip Michigan of Delegates
By The New York Times

In a widely expected move, the Democratic National Committee voted this morning to strip Michigan of all its 156 delegates to the national nominating convention next year. The state is the party’s rules by holding its primary on Jan. 15. Only Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Nevada are allowed to hold contests prior to Feb. 5.
The party imposed a similar penalty on Florida in August for scheduling a Jan. 29 primary.
The Democratic candidates have already pledged not to campaign in the state, and Senators Barack Obama and Joseph R. Biden Jr., as well as John Edwards and Gov. Bill Richardson, asked to have their names removed from the state ballot.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/01/democrats-strip-michigan-delegates/

Editorial: Follow DNC rules on seating delegates
February 25, 2008
By Editorial Board

On September 1, the campaigns of Clinton and Senator Barack Obama (D-Ill.) issued press releases stating that they had signed pledges affirming the DNC’s decision to approve certain representative states and sanction others for moving their nominating contests earlier. But now that the race is close, Clinton — whose top advisor Harold Ickes voted as a member of the DNC to strip Florida and Michigan of their delegates — is pushing for the delegates to be seated.
Her argument is that not doing so disenfranchises the 1.7 million Florida Democrats who voted and that her pledge promised only that she wouldn’t campaign in the states, not that she wouldn’t try to seat the delegates. However, the results of the contests in Florida and Michigan are not necessarily representative of the voters’ preferences in those states. Given that most of the candidates removed their names from the
Michigan ballot, and that many voters stayed home from the vote in Florida with the understanding that their contest would not affect the final delegate count, the delegate totals that the candidates accumulated in these states may not accurately reflect the will of the voters. Had there been no restrictions in Michigan and Florida, the turnout, and thus the results, may have been different.

The Four State Pledge all candidates signed on Aug. 28 stated, “Whereas, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee will strip states of 100% of their delegates and super delegates to the DNC National Convention if they violate the nomination calendar...

Therefore, I ____________, Democratic Candidate for President, in honor and in accordance with DNC rules ...pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any election contest occurring in any state not already authorized by the DNC to take place in the DNC approved pre-window.” When the candidates pledged to campaign only in approved states, they were also agreeing to the terms listed above, which explicitly mentioned stripping noncompliant states of their entire delegation.


House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) recently said that the Florida and Michigan delegates should not be seated if they would decide the nomination. Other compromise proposals include holding new nominating contests in these states, but such contests would be expensive and cumbersome. The irony is that had Florida and Michigan not moved up their primaries, they would have voted in February and March, when they would have been even more important than in earlier months in determining the Democratic nominee — and would not have created an enormous controversy that has the potential to divide the party.
http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2008/2/25/editorialFollowDncRulesOnSeatingDelegates

[indimuse]

13. The Fraud... MSM FIX is disgusting!

Obama...Barack Obama, RAN TV ADS IN FL DURING THE SUPER BOWL!!! THINK ABOUT IT!! UES YOUR DEM F*CKING BRAINS ( I'm pissed!!)>>>>>NOT YOUR HEARTS! HE BROKE THE ROOOOOLLZZZZ! IN MI! His name WAS on the ballot! HE CHOSE (NOT IN THE ROOOOLZ) to take his name off for HIS OWN POLITICAL GAIN>>>>Which backfired! HE has ZERO problem Disenfranchising MILLIONS OF VOTERS! HIS History of this goes back to his campaign in Chicago! He is NO DEMOCRAT IF YOU ASK ME!!!!!

[Kittycat]

17. I'm so glad Hillary Lost.

Soon you'll have to take your pots and pans, and start using them for a legitimate cause. Like campaigning against McCain, instead of your own party.

[Window]

21. Damn.

:wtf:

[Kukesa]

18. I guess "loyalty pledge" doesn't mean much to HRC. n/t

[nichomachus]

22. How can we count on her to keep her campaign promises? n/t

[Kukesa]

26. Excellent point! n/t

[BenDavid]

23. It was the gov and the legislature of florida that moved the damn

date up. So, do not blame the dems in Florida, and for damn sure do not blame the voters of Florida. I agree with the lawsuit being filed and I hope the courts agree the delegates and the count should stand.

[Az_lefty]

24. Hillary didn't give a flip about FL or MI until she got into trouble politically...

time for her to grow up and accept the fact that she has lost.

[FrenchieCat]

27. My, my, my.........does she really think we are that stupid?

Well I guess she thinks her supporters are.

Are they? :shrug:

[Raine]

28. Hillary only care about one thing...

HERSELF and what benefits HER. x(

[Bensthename]

29. "Mommy why is it okay for Senator Clinton to break the rules, can I break some rules too?"..

Johnny sit down watch your cartoons and keep your mouth shut...

:spank:

[Bensthename]

30. .

[Major Hogwash]

31. That was before she got her ass walloped in February, after the 5th.

When Obama opened up a can of Whoop Ass and beat her 11 primaries in a row!

Now, all of a sudden, they count.

Obama, 34.
Hillary, 18.

Don't even have to be a 6th grade graduate to figure out who has won more primaries/caucuses.

Hell, even Jethro Clampett could do it!!!

[totodeinhere]

32. Could one of the HRC supporters here explain that one to us?

[Ravy]

35. Explain what? She didn't campaign in Florida or Michigan. nt

[totodeinhere]

36. She didn't campaign there and she signed the loyalty pledge, but now she wants to include the...

votes from those two states anyway. Why? Because she needs the delegates from those states. If it were the other way around she would be advocating that those states not be counted. She is a fucking hypocrite.

[Ravy]

38. The pledge said nothing about the votes not counting. That was a DNC rules cmtee ruling.

Not the 4 state pledge.

[totodeinhere]

39. She also pledged not to "participate."

She pledged not to "campaign or participate in any state which schedules a presidential election primary or caucus before Feb. 5, 2008."

If she pledged not to participate in those states, how can she now advocate that the votes from those states be counted?

[Ravy]

44. I guess it depends on what participation means.. .in any case

since both candidates are actively campaigning in Florida this week, can we say that the 4 state pledge has expired and Hillary and Obama can do what they want regarding Florida and Michigan?

I just find this whole argument by the Obama camp to be very weak. In another thread, a poster claimed that a single person, who signed the pledge, was able to allow Obama to run his Florida ads. By the same reasoning, Gov. Vilsak can easily release Hillary from the pledge as well.

There is plenty of things to be down on Clinton about. This is not one of them.

[MonkeyFunk]

40. Yep

Too bad Obama was the only one to break the pledge by campaigning in florida. I guess he can't be trusted to keep his word.