Obama's "They cling to religion"...indeed, so why has he run such a holy-moly campaign?

[Bluebear]

I know I will regret posting this (Hillbot!!!11 Freeper!!!11), but I agree with Obama's assertion that folks tend to bitterly cling to guns and religion in the context of them thinking someone is out to get "their" job or "their" way of life, etc.

So why is it that Obama has made such a huge point to court the religious voting sector from seemingly day one of his campaign? The highlights I remember is him speaking at Saddleback, the famous South Carolina gospel tour, urging women to be prayerful about abortion, the speeches at churches... now he makes an extremely secular comment, and bravo because he was scaring me, but what gives?

[MojoMojoMojo]

1. Apparently his pastor is bitter ,maybe Obama associates bitterness with religion.

[boston bean]

14. There's a thought! nt

[SemiCharmedQuark]

2. Well think about it like this. Taking into account all of the concessions that Obama has made to

the religious, he is *still* attacked as a muslim and atheist etc. You can't get elected president without trumping up your religious side. Even Lincoln had to deal with this 143 years ago (I mention Lincoln not comparing Obama to Lincoln but because Lincoln is the president I know the most about.)

[Bluebear]

4. So you end up alienating both sides and winning neither

In the end, he can never be religious enough for the wacky crowd that will brand him "Muslim", and meanwhile he's put anti-gay Reverends on stage, etc. It's a regrettable strategy. Hillary Clinton also strikes me as just bizarre when she plays up her uberreligious side that was hiding under a bushel basket until the campaign trail.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

8. That's why decisions should largely be based on what they have voted for or failed to vote for.

Or what legislation they have passed during their political careers.

[tishaLA]

3. People "cling" to faith for a varety of reasons

But I think his point was really the idea of clinging to faith as a kind of bad faith--the faith that Robertson and Falwell and Hagee preach about division and scapegoating, not the faith of the Beatitudes. In other words, not all faith is bad, but sometimes faith plays into our baser natures.

[MojoMojoMojo]

5. LOL you dont think Rev Wright is divisive?

[MadMaddie]

12. Divisive to who is the question? We don't hear the blatent

attack against the Right Wing Wacko's who have made outright lies and hate mongering threats against other Americans and even races.

Whether you like him or not. Rev Wright was a Marine who served his country during Korea and the words he spoke in that 15 second clip you saw was not the whole sermon.

Your experiences may not be the experiences he lived through so before you judge a man on 15 seconds maybe you should do some research on him first. He lived through some of the darkest times in America as a black man so unless you know first hand what that was like it seems that you have no right to say if what he said was divisive or not.

One other note apparantly those words "God, damn America", were borrowed from some other historical figures speach.

Anyhoo...

[tishaLA]

28. No I don't. I think he's empowering

[Bluebear]

6. Well, I imagine people are praying against all odds...

...that their factory jobs will come back and the like, and in that sense I too would tell them to not waste their breath!

[southlandshari]

7. I think he courts the Christian vote

because he is a Christian and he believes in peace and justice in spiritual and in secular life. Maybe that seems like a silly answer, but it really is how I see it.

And as a Christian myself, I also agree that there are people - bitter people - who cling to things like guns and religion when they feel threatened by forces that are out of their control, be they economic, social, whatever.

I don't see the disconnect.

:hi:

[TLM]

9. Because his comment wasn;t an attack....

he was explaining why a group of voters have been turned off to the process or only vote on single issues. he wasn't attacking them or insulting them as the desperate Hatery supporters are trying to spin it.

[baldguy]

10. Full quote, in context:

You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

He wasn't being critical of faith. He was being critical of corporations for decimating middle America, and of politicians - like McCain/Clinton - of allowing them to do so.

[southlandshari]

13. I agree

Well stated.

[boston bean]

20. What question was he answering, so we can have the real context.

I don't see Obama supporters worried about that context, but it's important.

[baldguy]

33. You're obviously not paying attention.

It was one statement in an hour-long speech - he wasn't answering a question.

Stop getting you talking points from Fox News

[goclark]

24. Exactly

I also see clinging to religion in another sense.

When my people were slaves,religion and family*the family that was not taken away from us and sold to another plantation) were all we had to "cling" too.

Ir gave us our strength.

It is not an insult, IMO, to cling to your faith, in good times and bad times.

[sendero]

11. I know exactly what Obama was saying..

... and he is exactly right.

Of course, dumbasses who want 8 more years of sleaze don't get it.

[boston bean]

15. then by all means explain how he meant it. what the hell does losing a job

have to do with harboring antipathy for others not like you? and why was this his answer when the question was about him having a hard time winning over voters in PA?

[southlandshari]

17. Losing a job

and the hardships that often result can cause people to harbor antipathy towards all kinds of things, reasonable or not.

[boston bean]

19. so they cling to church and guns to cope. give me a fn break. He was

telling the good people of san francisco that he was having a hard time in PA because people are bigoted. That's it.

[TLM]

25. not at all... he was talking about what has driven many voters...

in rural America to become cynical and resentful regarding politics and government... and how as a result they've turned to single issue voters or rejected the process all together.


There was nothing insulting or demeaning in what he said...

[boston bean]

34. What question was he answering? please let me know, then try and give me this same answer. nt

[southlandshari]

27. Yes, some do.

Perhaps you don't know people who cling to things like guns and religion as a way of feeling some sense of control when they make $3 more than the minimum wage and still can't feed their family. But I do. They aren't bad people. Just everyday Americans trying to make it.

You can say whatever you want about Barack Obama, but I do not believe that he was calling anyone a bigot with his comments. He seems to me to be someone - a rare someone in the political arena - who tries to understand why people feel hatred or frustration or fear in this country.

And now the backlash cometh. Surprise, surprise.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

21. Wedge issues.

Screw up people's lives economically, and you'll have to distract them somehow -- gay marriage, illegal immigration, etc. -- so you can keep screwing them over.

[boston bean]

22. that's why people won't vote for him. really. nt

[IndianaJones]

16. he's a fundamentalist christian. nt

[bobthedrummer]

26. Nope, he is a Christian, but not a fundamentalist-and he doesn't meet in secret with fundamentalists

and cultists like HRC does

"Meet Hillary's Religious Leader: Rightwingnut Doug Coe" (archived Stephanie thread started 3-14-208)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5071798

I'm a Christian too, and very much opposed to politicized BFEE whack jobs asking God to bless their evil, I'm a Christian opposed to theocracy and fascism wherever it is found.

I wouldn't ignorantly call Senator Obama a "fundamentalist christian" like you did IndianaJones-that's absurd.

[KittyWampus]

18. he's not "courting" the religious voting sector. He just fucking acknowledges their existance.

just because you apparenlty have left-over issues from you childhood with religion doesn't mean we all do.

[Olney Blue]

23. Unfortunately, being a "religious Christian" seems to be a requirement

for president. :banghead:

It's become a religious test.

[southlandshari]

29. Bullshit

But the ability to treat Christians and other religious groups with some measure of respect and understanding rather than scorn and derision certainly is.

Christianity and Christians are not the enemy here. Those who misappropriate religious teachings for their own personal gain are. There is a big difference and failure to acknowledge that is short-sighted and arrogant.

[Olney Blue]

32. My point is that in American politics, candidates seem compelled to

do a religious song and dance. I don't see too many atheists or Muslims running for president.

[southlandshari]

35. I agree with your point

And the shame of it is that when someone who genuinely connects with people of faith AND has respect for atheists and other religions - who cares about Americans because they are Americans, diverse as we all may be - they are viewed with skepticism and cynacism honed over many years of watching insincere pandering by candidates on both sides of the aisle.

:(

[Olney Blue]

37. You are right, and I concede that I am somewhat cynical in my attitude.

Too bad I can't be more like Wilson. :hi:

[southlandshari]

38. LOL!

Alas....none of us can acheive the serenity of Wilson.




































Of course, that may be because we are encumbered by brains, whereas Wilson is blissfully spared of the issues of the day and the worries of the world.

;)

[MadBadger]

30. To try and combat the Muslim thing?

[southlandshari]

31. Are you really a supporter of Obama?

:shrug:

[nichomachus]

36. Your question doesn't make any sense

He didn't say they shouldn't turn to religion. He just said that they did. Sort of like the guy who said "there are no atheists in foxholes." It wasn't a judgment, merely a statement of fact.

[Bluebear]

40. You say it made no sense, the poster below said it was a result of critical thinking.

Such are opinions :)

[southlandshari]

42. The question was legitimate, IMO

As was your answer, minus the inflammatory subject line in the reply

[nichomachus]

47. Inflammatory! ??????

Now, that doesn't make any sense either

[EFerrari]

46. That's right. The premise is false.

Obama was only describing one reason that people immerse themselves in religion, He wasn't talking about the practice of faith in general in any way.

Beyond that, the Christian network is one of the biggest ones in the country and it would be stupid for him to ignore it.

[depakid]

39. Certainly seems incongruous, doesn't it?

One of those things that makes critical thinkers go "hmmm."

[Lucinda]

41. It's only a holy-moly campaign when it NEEDS to be.

[southlandshari]

43. Can you elaborate on your point?

Are you suggesting that Barack Obama only speaks to Christian groups when he feels it is politically expedient?

[Lucinda]

44. I'm saying he is extremely good at adapting his message to the group at hand. n/t

[southlandshari]

45. Let's be clear

Are you saying that Obama is insincere when he connects with religious Christians, that it is all part of carefully crafted political strategy?

[JoFerret]

48. Religiosity is creepy

wherever it is found.

Prayerful about abortion? What was that about? (off to check)

[moondust]

49. "Cling"

Poor choice of words. A better choice might have been something along the lines of "immerse themselves in" or "escape their plight by turning to" other things, implying that they give up on the government and economy to some degree.

[cali]

50. Duh. Because he's been labeled as a Muslim- to begin with.

And Hillary Dearest has also been running with how religious she is- but of course you neglect to acknowledge that.