The 'fact check' from the WaPo On Clinton's Bosnia trip is bullshit

[bigtree]

The post which is so popular here today points to ONE stop on the trip. All of the charges of lying from Hillary Clinton are ignoring the fact that she made SEVERAL stops on that trip.

After that landing in which she was greeted by locals and before the USO show that night, Clinton also visited, via armored helicopter, two front-line posts (Task Force Eagle Base, where the picture with the little girl was snapped, was the force HQ). I don't believe Sinbad and Sheryl Crow went with her on that day-trip.


This is the Clinton campaign response:


Bosnia

The Obama campaign has resorted to mocking Hillary's trip to Bosnia in 1996, belittling it as a U.S.O. tour and saying there was no danger. But Hillary toured the frontlines of the international peacekeeping mission. CNN reported:

At a second outpost, Camp Bedrock, Mrs. Clinton visited a M.A.S.H. unit, the only full-service U.S. Army hospital in Bosnia. The three-hour tour of the frontlines of the international peacekeeping mission were filled with the gritty reality of a military operation, a far cry from traditional first lady photo opportunities, and Mrs. Clinton seemed more than comfortable with that. CNN, 3/25/99

A day later, the Charleston Gazette reported that "Protected by sharpshooters, Hillary Rodham Clinton swooped into a military zone by Black Hawk helicopter Monday…This trip to Bosnia marks the first time since Roosevelt that a first lady has voyaged to a potential combat zone…"


The dishonesty in this attack is astounding, considering the charges are being made as a measure of CLINTON'S credibility.



Then first lady Hillary Rodham Clinton greets U.S. soldiers as she arrives at Bedrock Camp, an outpost of the U.S. IFOR contingent, near Tuzla, in this March 25, 1996.

[Vinca]

1. Was this stop too risky for Sinbad or hadn't he gotten out of the chopper yet? nt

[bigtree]

2. he wasn't on that leg of the trip.

so your comment is just ignorant

[golddigger]

148. Lmao!

[guruoo]

72. ROTFL

[joshcryer]

3. I was *this close* to posting this from her schedule to debunk the innuendo (well, lies).

Obama supporters have no problem being fucking liars.

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/FirstLady_Schedule_1996_Mar_25.pdf

[JoFerret]

73. Their excessive need to destroy her

is appalling. And they don't need to do their own research. just hop over to a r/w hate site and start copying.

[guruoo]

80. They were doing this from earily on in the campaign

[JoFerret]

112. And another sad thing is

....some Clinton folks have done the same thing.

A plague on both their houses when they deal that way.

[guruoo]

117. Eventually they did indeed begin to respond in kind

I say 'they', because I refuse to participate in swiftboating of fellow Dems.

[Scairp]

243. Indeed

I am beyond sick of it. My so-called fellow "Democrats" are behaving in a most disgraceful manner. We should be working very hard together to elect the candidate most likely and qualified to defeat the old man who wants to make war on everyone not Caucasian, but have decided instead to deify a man with little experience in international politics and diplomacy over a woman with a great deal of experience in all matters concerning the leadership of this country. I don't get it, it thoroughly puzzles me, and I tell you, Obama cannot defeat McCain in a general election. Hillary Clinton can, and will, if only people in the party I have called my own for so long will come to their senses. Otherwise, we are all screwed.

[Inuca]

4. The fact that she visited a MASH unit, etc.

has nothing to do with the fact that her description of her arrival at Tuzla was a figment of her imagination. By the way, do you have a link to the response you posted? I would like to read it in full. Thanks.

[bigtree]

6. where do you get that? Out of your head? These reports clearly contradict that

That is the full response from the campaign. It's been posted all over weeks ago. You'll have to look the articles up yourself from what the campaign provided, if you need to.

Clearly she made other landings in the combat zone. This photo provided a month ago by the AP proves that. No Sinbad, or Crow in sight, but, clearly, she's in a combat zone.

[Inuca]

8. Her reference in the recent speech

was to the landing in Tuzla. You posted about other parts of the trip. The issue whether she was truthful or not is about the Tuzla arrival, and that's what the WP article discusses. That's what my head tells me.

PS: I was polite. You were not. Too bad.

[joshcryer]

10. Listen to her wording carefully.

[Inuca]

12. What exactly are you refering to?

I heard it several times, but of course I might have missed something.

[bigtree]

14. I'm not going to be polite about this smear. It's gone far enough.

ANYTIME our public officials visit these trouble spots around the world they are putting their lives in danger on our country's behalf. The attempt to minimize that risk could be undone and explode in the accuser's faces at the first instance where something goes terribly wrong. It's a credit to our forces that they protect our officials so well. But, its ignorant to assert that these trips are safe and risk-free. ANY trip into an active combat zone is fraught with terrible risks. The fact that our First Lady was eager to take on that challenge is a CREDIT to her, not deserving of the scorn heaped on her by folks who apparently have NO concern about her safety or well-being.

She made several stops on that tour. Here statements describing one of those landings is not inconsistent with the events which took place and were reported on at the time. Read her words.

[MilesColtrane]

99. Wow, she can smile and wave while running with her head down.

[guruoo]

122. No chance she may have confused these various landings?

And does it really matter at which landing they encountered fire,
or she was told there was, or had been sniper fire?

[onenote]

5. do you honestly believe that if there was sniper fire, the press wouldn't have reported it?

Has anyone produced any contemporaneous news report indicating that clinton faced actual sniper fire during any of her stops? There were reporters with her every step of the way and if there had been so much as a car backfirinng, it would've been reported.

Here are her own words: “I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base.”

What part of what you've posted makes any of that statement true? Did the MASH Unit have an 'airport'? The photo you posted of her at Bedrock doesn't have her running to get into vehicles?

Face it. HRC didn't just embellish -- she fabricated.

[bigtree]

7. for shitsakes, she landed in a combat zone in which our soldiers were, themselves at risk.

Do you really believe that in that combat zone, there wasn't a risk of sniper fire directed at the First Lady of the United States?? That's what she was told. That's what she related. That's what was corroborated by the press at the time.

[XemaSab]

212. Here's a picture of W "in theater"

[bigtree]

230. on an aircraft carrier

so what?

[onenote]

265. and for shitsakes, if she had simply stated that she went to Bosnia that would've been fine

It would've made the point that she was involved enough to go over and visit and get a firsthand look at the situation there. That alone would've have been a positive statement on her part. But, no, she had to describe something that simply didn't occur -- her being "under sniper fire" and having to run to avoid that fire that prevented a greeting ceremony.

She didn't have to embellish the story to make it sound more than it was. But she did. And that's so freakin' Reaganesque it makes me cringe.

[rocktivity]

157. If there HAD been a credible risk of sniper fire,

THEY NEVER WOULD HAVE ATTEMPTED TO LAND.

Not with a President's spouse and child on board!

:headbang:
rocknation

[bigtree]

207. Of course, all of the soldiers in FULL BATTLE GEAR minimized that risk

but, if there was no risk, then why all of the heavy artillery and weaponry? What a crock to suggest that her visit and landings in a COMBAT ZONE was danger free.

[XemaSab]

214. I could go TWO DOORS DOWN from my house and take a picture of me

in front of a tank with a chopper in the background.

Haven't you learned anything from this administration?

Having your picture taken in front of a bunch of soldiers with guns doesn't mean shit.

[bigtree]

221. Yet this was in a combat zone. More than a pic in front of your house

unless its in a war zone

[progressive_realist]

300. Not a war zone

The war ended three months before her visit. That's why they call it a "peacekeeping" mission.

[Catherina]

277. I just found a photo of a sniper. There really was one!

That sound of sniper fire Bigtree's heard was Hillary Clinton shooting herself in the foot.

[Sulawesi]

9. I am an Obama supporter...

I feel like this shows why we should not be buying into the crap about lies etc. unless they are substantiated and speak to the candidates qualifications for president.

Thank you for debunking this...can we please stop with this, Pastorgate, and all the stupidness?

[Inuca]

11. IMHO

embelishing your resume speaks a LOT about your qualifications as president.

[Blondbostonian]

13. It wasn't debunked

Her words talk specifically about flying into Bosnia in a C-17 not on this leg. She lied.

[bigtree]

16. she made SEVERAL stops on that trip.

Whether she recalled a C-17 or an attack helicopter is irrelevant, except to the nitpicking of folks desperate to put her down.

[Blondbostonian]

18. The Washingon Post is desperate?

Sometimes you got to take your lumps and move on.

[bigtree]

20. She was at risk of sniper fire when she visited the front lines

any fool can see that.

[rodeodance]

174. You have lot to learn --when you say 'take your lumps"!! Hillary will NOT take bull . get that!!

Sometimes you got to take your lumps and move on.

[noamnety]

153. She made a point of remembering the aircraft

"“Part of the reason we were in the C-17 is because part of it is armored,” Clinton said. “I was moved up into the cockpit. Everyone else was told to sit on their bullet proof vests. We came in in an evasive maneuver. Those of you who have been on a C-17 or C-130 know that one of their great characteristics is that they can take off very quickly and they can maneuver agilely to avoid incoming fire."

[bigtree]

166. and that was confirmed, in part, by the recollections of her staffer

as I posted below. This is truly nitpicking at it's most inane level.

[Tom Rinaldo]

17. And Gore didn't invent the internets

This reminds me of the MSM gotchas against Gore in 2000, outrage the he actually toured a different specific disaster area with the FEMA head than the one he recalled in one statement.

Hillary Clinton did have the relevent personal experience that she related of flying into an actual combat zone under very risky conditions. That's the point.

[guruoo]

71. Exactly.

[AzDar]

109. IIRC, Al Gore never actually claimed to have invented the internet; it was a fabrication by the MSM.

Hillary's 'Tuzla' comments, unfortunately, are her very own words.

That doesn't bother you?:shrug:

[Tom Rinaldo]

114. Gore was accused of lying about a trip he took to inspect a natural disaster

and he was accused based on Gore's own literal words. He confused details from two seperate trips and was factually incorrect in his actual quote, though in fact he had made a trip to inspect a natural disaster, he simply confused the details. And for that he was roasted for lying by the media. And most Democrats were outraged by that type of "gotcha" political reporting at the time. Unlike now it seems.

[AzDar]

121. Well, the obvious question to qualify your analogy would be: Did

Hillary land at the Tuzla Airport AT ANY TIME under sniper fire, running with her head down , under conditions 'too dangerous for a greeting ceremony'?

Because if that never happened, there's really nothing to confuse.
That would make the Gore analogy false, and Hillary a bit of a liar.

[guruoo]

132. Point is, this may have actually happened at another stop, and

Hillary's recollection may be no worse than that of Gore's.

[dchill]

262. Exactly.

She deliberately inflated the degree of danger that existed at that moment - the Secret Service and the US Military would never put the First Lady and/or First Daughter (or even Sinbad) in any situation anywhere near as volatile as Hillary would like us to believe. Besides, if it HAD happened, it would have been a MAJOR headline.

[guruoo]

127. I believe you're being intellectually dishonest.

Lie: A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.

The key word here is *deleberate*
Now, how many stops did they make?

[AzDar]

168. Did she *ever* come under fire? If not, there's no confusion, just deliberate obfuscation.

[goclark]

83. LSI I agree

Let's handle it the way Sen.Obama would handle it.

[PBS Poll-435]

116. Hmmm....Say that is was dangerous,

Dangerous enough.

[rodeodance]

104. :-)

[ecdab]

15. Here's what Hillary said on Monday

"I certainly do remember that trip to Bosnia, and as Togo said, there was a saying around the White House that if a place was too small, too poor, or too dangerous, the president couldn't go, so send the First Lady. That’s where we went. I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base."

Lets take it piece by piece.

"if a place was too small, too poor, or too dangerous, the president couldn't go, so send the First Lady" - so why did she bring her daughter and a comedian if it was so dangerous? Seriously - why was her daughter there - I'm guessing it was because Bosnia was too poor or too small - and it had absolutely nothing to do with it being too dangerous. First Ladies never get sent where it is too dangerous for the very same reason Presidents don't get sent where it's too dangerous.

"I remember landing under sniper fire." - she is alone in that recollection, the video of her landing in Bosnia also shows that the crowd didn't seem to notice any sniper fire.

"There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base." - that's just too funny for words once the video has been viewed.

The thing I can not figure out is why - why did she tell such a shallow and obvious lie?

I realize her entire "experience" claim is being slowly stripped away from her as the vetting process continues, but this claim is just stupid.

[bigtree]

19. Several stops on that tour, and you point to one instance as proof

completely ignoring her stops at the front lines. Whether that danger was at the arrival ceremony, or at these other stops, the fact is that she visited the front lines where the soldiers themselves were at risk. It doesn't take a leap to conclude that the First Lady of the United States was at risk on those legs of the trip in which she visited the front lines.

All of the rest about catching her up on her recollection ignores the fact that she CLEARLY was in danger, as were the soldiers, as she visited the front lines. Dispute that. You can't. All you can do is nitpicck over her recollection like it's some big deal. She did make some stops in which she was at risk of sniper fire. Deal with that.

[Blondbostonian]

21. You know she lied. Stop being in denial

It's not your fault.

[bigtree]

23. she must have recalled the wrong stop, because she CLEARLY was in danger of sniper fire

. . . when she visited the front lines. The press accounts at the time confirm the danger. That's the point, SHE WAS IN DANGER WHEN SHE VISITED THE FRONT LINES, not some 'gotcha' in her recollection OF WHICH STOP THAT DANGER OCCURRED..

[TLM]

281. but she was very specific... even insulting...

She makes a snarky remark about sinbad being a comedian, when presented with his comment that there was no danger.... then she goes on to say she remembers the trip clearly and to be VERY SPECIFIC about the aircraft they were in, the canceled greeting ceremony, and running with heads down straight to their cars.

She was clearly lying in an attempt to pump up the level of danger for effect...

But even if we were to assume you are correct and she is accidentally mixing up two separate landings, two aircrafts, and two different planned ceremonies... where was she running from sniper fire straight to her car after a canceled greeting ceremony?

She doesn;t seem to be running from sniper fire in the picture you posted there.... do you have the one where she is?

[maddiejoan]

24. The lie is already underway --

like the hundreds of "truths" about Hillary Clinton spread by Obama's team of slime merchants.

It will not matter. that this too, is debunked --it will be added to the Swiftboating Obama campaign's list of "Truth" about Hillary.

The lies continue to spin --and the gullible still dutifully eat it up with a spoon.

[bigtree]

40. you google this Obama camp lie and you're right. It spreads with ease

among those with an axe to grind against the Clintons.

But, you can also, easily, google Camp Alicia and Camp Bedrock in Bosnia and discover the tense, often damgerous atmosphere which surrounded the 'separation zone' at Alicia and the field hospital at Bedrock. Indiscriminate fire was a concern for all of the soldiers there. One of the things mentioned was the tendency of the locals to fire into the air without concern about where those bullets fell. To minimize the danger on these trips abroad our First Lady made behalf of the United States is sick.

[ecdab]

38. Funny how there isn't a single news article from 1996 about

Hillary taking sniper fire.

But we do have this from Time, and after reading it - could you please answer the question - If officials at the said she took no extraordinary risk - what is it that allows you to recall that she did?

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1720720,00.html

BOSNIA: "If the place was too small, too dangerous or too poor, send Hillary."

Clinton cites her March 1996 trip to Bosnia as an example of traveling into a war zone to promote U.S. policy, recalling a harrowing "corkscrew" landing during which she and her daughter, Chelsea, were ordered into the armored front of the plane to protect them against possible ground fire. She jokes that one mantra around the Clinton White House, was that "if the place was too small, too dangerous or too poor, send Hillary."

Clinton brought up the trip to counter Obama's suggestion that her experiences as first lady amounted to having tea at an ambassador's house.

"I don't remember anyone offering me tea," Clinton said of the Bosnia visit.

Security was very tight on Clinton's goodwill tour to Bosnia, but officials said at the time that she took no extraordinary risks.

Rice, the Obama supporter, dismissed the trip as a "meet and greet." She stressed that comedian Sinbad and singer Sheryl Crow accompanied Clinton on the flight to put on a USO show for the troops.

[bigtree]

41. there was an obvious risk at the separation zone at Alicia, and at the field hospital at Bedrock

but, you go on pretending that our First Lady's visits to the front lines of a combat zone don't carry the risk of sniper fire.

[ecdab]

52. NO - I'm saying their is absolutely no evidence that what she said

about her trip is even remotely true.

She spent a whopping 9 hours in Bosnia - 9 hours.

Clinton was set to land at Tuzla Air Base at 8:45 a.m. And if a sniper was about, it's a good thing the welcome ceremony was canceled, since it included U.S. ambassador John Menzies, a seventh-grade class and an 8-year-old Bosnian girl who was supposed to read Clinton a poem.

She did then go to a meeting with Acting President Ejup Ganic, which lasted 10 minutes. This was followed by a "roundtable discussion" moderated by Menzies from 9:35 to 10:45. Clinton was then supposed to meet with some nongovernmental organizations for 30 minutes.

She then received a very important-sounding "Task Force Eagle" briefing. It lasted 15 minutes. Next, Clinton got an hourlong tour of a military camp, lunch with the troops and a second hourlong tour of another military camp. (Travel between locations took some time, too.)

By 3:45 it was time for a show for the troops back at Tuzla, with entertainment provided by singer Sheryl Crow and comedian Sinbad. Her flight was set to leave at 5:45 p.m.


Please fill in the gaps where she was hopping into combat zones.

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/03/19/clinton_bosnia/

[bigtree]

139. That itinerary doesn't have ANY indication that they were in an combat zone.

Do the soldiers in the photo I posted look like they were dressed and equipped for a tea party? I believe she may have confused the order of events and locations on that trip, but the dangers she described were clearly present, from several accounts I've posted on this thread.

[Catherina]

275. I hate to break this to you but that's no combat zone

THIS is a combat zone


Hillary landed in a base camp so safe that the soldiers called it Disneyland. If tea party floats your boat, stick to that because Eagle Air Base was the equivalent of a tea party.

When you say things this silly, you're not just discrediting yourself, you're discrediting Democrats in general as idiots who don't know anything about the military or combat. If you want US soldiers to trust their lives to a Democratic Administration, this isn't the way to reassure them.

[alcibiades_mystery]

59. She didn't say risk of sniper fire

She said "landing under sniper fire."

Do you not know the difference between a risk of fire and an actual fire? Apparently, neither does the Commander-on-Chief tester...

[bigtree]

64. why are you minimizing the danger to the point of dismissing it altogether?

It's just dishonest to suggest that she couldn't have been told of this as she approached these combat zones. This is silly season stuff, with not a little vindictiveness and dishonesty on the part of her accusers.

[alcibiades_mystery]

79. Sure it is

:rofl:

"Excuse me ma'am. We are currently under sniper fire."

You're a hilarious and laughable partisan.

[bigtree]

91. oh, no more than the sickening obsessions of her opponent's supporters

[roscoeroscoe]

89. maybe she should be given a little...

...benefit of the doubt. but, having done 30-40 combat patrols in Iraq, i have to say the overreaching language stands out.
you have to let the risk of having been there speak for itself without embellishing it a bit. if you were to ask me i would answer that i was lucky enough to have not been engaged in direct combat. end of story. she's treading on dangerous ground using overheated language in this area.
much as i respect her...

[Bonobo]

125. "Ran with our heads down to the vehicles"

Either you ran with your heads down to the vehicles or you didn't.

If you didn't and said you did, you are what is called a "liar".

[ProSense]

22. It's not bullshit! Hillary lied. Accept it!

Hillary's Balkan Adventures, Part II

"I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to
be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead
we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to
our base."
--Hillary Clinton, speech at George Washington University, March 17, 2008.

<...>

The Pinocchio Test

Clinton's tale of landing at Tuzla airport "under sniper fire" and then
running for cover is simply not credible. Photographs and video of the
arrival ceremony, combined with contemporaneous news reports, tell a
very different story. Four Pinocchios.

March 22, 2008

"We Just Ran With Our Heads Down"

by hilzoy

A few days ago, Hillary Clinton described her 1996 trip to Bosnia:

"I certainly do remember that trip to Bosnia, and as Togo said, there was a saying around the White House that if a place was too small, too poor, or too dangerous, the president couldn't go, so send the First Lady. That’s where we went. I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base."

Even before Sinbad challenged Clinton's account, I was skeptical: as I read somewhere (sorry, don't remember where), does it really make sense to suppose that if the trip was that dangerous, the President would have sent not just his wife but his only child on it?

Now, however, there is video of Clinton running with her head down through the hail of bullets. Except for, um, the running part, and the bullets part, and the part about the greeting ceremony being cancelled. It's worth watching to see the perils Senator Clinton endured. And it does support her story in one respect: as you can see in this picture, she did bend her head down on the tarmac, to hug an eight year old girl who had just read her a poem.

Harrowing stuff. No doubt all the nonexistent bullets flying around account for the fact that none of the reporters who were present mentioned any danger at the time. Obviously, they were so terrified that they repressed it all.

Honestly: there was no need for Clinton to do any of this. She did play a serious policy role in her husband's administration (even if she didn't help pass the Family and Medical Leave Act, as she claims.) The only reason for her to inflate a trip with Sinbad and Sheryl Crow into a serious diplomatic mission, and a trip to Northern Ireland involving "a visit to a women's drop-in centre and two business parks" into helping bring peace to Northern Ireland, is that by pretending to have been more involved in foreign policy than she really was, she can pretend that while Barack Obama isn't ready to be commander in chief, she is.

Frankly, though, the fact that she can't tell the difference between having an eight year old read her a poem on a tarmac and fleeing through a hail of bullets doesn't give me a lot of confidence in her grasp of military affairs. Who knows? If she were President, she might decide that she was under attack by helicopter gunships when she was actually standing in a perfectly peaceful receiving line at a state funeral, and declare war. If she thinks the video I linked to shows her running for safety in a hail of bullets, anything is possible.

Hillary's Campaign-ending Lie (Updated)

Fact Check tries to cover for Hillary's SCHIP lie

[maddiejoan]

25. Where does she lie?

You show one landing only.

you're a slime merchant.

accept it.

[ProSense]

27. Did she land on base or off? n/t

[maddiejoan]

31. if you look at her schedule

you will see she landed at Tuzla THREE times.

[ProSense]

36. Checked and verified

Just checked with her published schedules...

the landing in the video was her ONLY landing by plane in Bosnia. Touched down in Tuzla 8:45 am, then two more fights during that day to army posts by helicopter. Left Bosnia by plane again that very evening to Aviano AFB, Italy.

http://www.clintonlibrary.gov/Documents/HRC%20Years/HRC%201996.pdf
pages 468 to 471

The schedule even has the 8-year-old girl on it, so everything seems to have run according to plan.

No chance that the video shows anything else but her ONLY landing in Bosnia. Documentary evidence.

[maddiejoan]

37. By Plane

who the hell cares if she remembers what manner of vehicle?

The attack copters ALSO landed at the airport in Tuzla on their return trips.

[ProSense]

44. Cut it out. Hillary recently: "There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony...

"at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base."

link

[maddiejoan]

53. so what?

unless you are saying that the greeting ceremony video taped is the only greeting ceremony a First Lady from the USA was going to get in Bosnia.

[ProSense]

55. No, here's what I'm saying

Hillary's account is BS!

[maddiejoan]

68. At this point

all you have is "He said -She said"

[ProSense]

85. No, at this point you have Hillary contradicting herself multiple times. n/t

[maddiejoan]

88. Unlike

Obama on his relationship with Rev Wright --or his stance on the Iraq Occupation --or his stance on NAFTA --and on and on and on and on

[ProSense]

93. Obama hasn't lied about his relationship with Rev. Wright. Obama's position on Iraq is clear, and

he was correct: Hillary did support Nafta, and there is video and her records to prove it.

[maddiejoan]

96. There is evidence she attended NAFTA meetings

there is no evidence she did so as a supporter of NAFTA --and in fact there is more evidence that she attended as a critic.

Obama does lie about his relationship with Wright --which actually puzzles me--because I actually like Wright more than I like Obama --at least HE is honest.

As far as Obama's stance on Iraq --he said in 2004 , that he shared the same stance as GW.

[ProSense]

100. There is video:

Hillary Clinton in support of NAFTA

[maddiejoan]

105. nice edited clip

sure seems to me there's a big BUT after it.

[ProSense]

123. The full comment is even worse:

Audio: Hillary's full comment (at about 20:50 mins.)

From the DLC site:

We all know the record of the DLC, the Progressive Policy Institute and, of course, the Clinton-Gore Administration. The economic recovery plan stands first and foremost as a testament to both good ideas and political courage. National service. The Brady Bill. Family Leave. NAFTA. Investment in science and technology. New markets. Charter schools. The Earned Income Tax Credit. The welfare to work partnership. The COPS program. The SAFER program. All of these came out of some very fundamental ideas about what would work.

link

[maddiejoan]

177. I thought it was a fine comment

and certainly not reflective of the clusterfuck that the Bush administration turned NAFTA into.

:shrug:

In fact --she makes it quite clear that NAFTA has to be well monitored

[Dawgs]

199. Do you have evidence of Obama lying about Wrright?

Same with Obama's stance on Iraq?

I'll be waiting.

[rocktivity]

167. Unfortunately for Hillary, what SHE said

doesn't seem to be true.

:headbang:
rocknation

[XemaSab]

215. Hillary herself is the one who made a big deal out of the type of plane

:shrug:

[Blondbostonian]

29. Did you watch the video clip?

She talked about in graphic detail of being moved to the front of the c-17 with Chelsea and taking evasive manuevers in landing.

It's ok to admit a lie and move on. Denial is not a river.

[davidpdx]

33. Welcome to my ignore list

[maddiejoan]

35. As if I care

[rodeodance]

175. It is their way of putting their heads in the sand.

[maddiejoan]

178. It's all about Unity™

[rodeodance]

184. that and a deliberate attempt to destroy her by all means including using Rove smear tactics

[maddiejoan]

186. great reading here

http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/012195.php

http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/012196.php

[ecdab]

26. Here's a link to NYT archives accounting "Hillary's dangerous trip"

that she brought her daughter on.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0DE3D61139F935A15750C0A960958260

[bigtree]

43. 600 soldiers patrolling the zone of separation between the Bosnian Govt. and Bosnian Serb armies

and there's NO risk of sniper fire???? What fantasy. Other press accounts mentioned the danger. I posted them, so . . .

[ecdab]

54. so where was she running for cover?

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/03/19/clinton_bosnia/

Clinton was set to land at Tuzla Air Base at 8:45 a.m. And if a sniper was about, it's a good thing the welcome ceremony was canceled, since it included U.S. ambassador John Menzies, a seventh-grade class and an 8-year-old Bosnian girl who was supposed to read Clinton a poem.

She did then go to a meeting with Acting President Ejup Ganic, which lasted 10 minutes. This was followed by a "roundtable discussion" moderated by Menzies from 9:35 to 10:45. Clinton was then supposed to meet with some nongovernmental organizations for 30 minutes.

She then received a very important-sounding "Task Force Eagle" briefing. It lasted 15 minutes. Next, Clinton got an hourlong tour of a military camp, lunch with the troops and a second hourlong tour of another military camp. (Travel between locations took some time, too.)

By 3:45 it was time for a show for the troops back at Tuzla, with entertainment provided by singer Sheryl Crow and comedian Sinbad. Her flight was set to leave at 5:45 p.m.

[bigtree]

67. these accounts are written as if there was no danger at all. Maybe it wasn't at that stop.

Maybe she was wrong about that stop. But to come back all these years later and act as if she wasn't in a combat zone is just dishonest.

These little gotcha accounts are at odds with the press reports at the time which I provided in the op. And, they are at odds with the realities of a combat zone and the risks involved in the visit of the First Lady.

[ecdab]

75. Her own people - AT THE TIME - said she wasn't at any risk beyond what was ordinary

What information do have that contradicts that?

Hillary made the statement on Monday about running for cover from snipers in response to a question about her "experience". She wildly exaggerated her "experience" in her answer so that it would sound better. She got busted for fibbing.

[bigtree]

84. There WAS the risk of sniper fire. The only meaningful part which would have constituted a lie

. . . would be her representation of the danger. The rest may well be a misrepresentation of the actual order of event, even to the particular landing, but there was obviously a risk of sniper fire. Her own (written) accounts acknowledge the greeting by the locals, and, states that it was cut short because of reports of snipers in the hills. There was SOME sniper risk on that trip. She was in an simmering combat zone separating the warring parties. That's the point she was trying to make. That point doesn't seem to be refuted by her recollection, despite the apparent inaccuracies.

[ecdab]

97. Let's look at what she said one more time, shall we?

"I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base."


"I remember landing under sniper fire." - she didn't land under sniper fire. That would be a false statement, otherwise known as a lie, or an example of failed memory.

"There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base." - There was a greeting ceremony at the airport, that would make her statement false once again, or what most people call a lie. She didn't run from the tarmac - another lie, and she didn't do so with her head down - another lie.

There isn't a shred of truth in her statement. Word by word it is a complete fabrication.

You seem to be defending this statement by saying that there were snipers some where in Bosnia. That's grand, but that in no way makes her actual statement something other than a lie.

Did she land under sniper fire? NO

Was there a greeting ceremony? Yes

Did she run from the plane to her vehicle ducking for cover? No

That there may have been some chance of sniper fire (that her own people deemed nothing beyond what what was ordinary, which is to say basically that there was no risk at all), does not justify her making a bunch of stuff up that never happened. When you make a bunch of stuff up that never happened, most notably when it is done to make oneself sound better than reality would suggest, it is called a lie. She lied, simple as that. You can argue that it was a minor lie, but the fact that she lied is beyond dispute.

You also may want to inform yourself a bit more about the nature of the conflict in Bosnia. The conflict ended in 1995, Hillary visited in 1996.

here's a link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_War

[MilesColtrane]

108. You've got to understand....

The snipers retained the potential for developing programs of firing upon her.

Therefore it's true.

:eyes:

[ecdab]

110. Watching people defend this blatant fabrication has been somewhat

educational and a bit funny (in a sad sort of fashion). It sort of reminds me of many of Tommy Tomorrow's pieces where he concocts images of GOPpers dismissing reality.

[Kuni]

28. You conveniently forget her lies were about what happened at the airport. Nice try but no cigar.

"I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base.”


Greeting ceremony, Tuzla military airport, Bosnia, March 25, 1996.

Is that Hillary holding a child to use as a human shield to protect herself from the sniper as she is running to the vehicles???

[MannyGoldstein]

32. Please Delete

Delete

[Kuni]

45. Please, please; before someone sees the picture that proves Hillary is lying sack of shit boo hoo

[bigtree]

46. a lie? Or, did she mistake which landing was risky?

She clearly visited front line positions which bore the risks she described. What about those instances? I really don't expect you to acknowledge it, but the First Lady was clearly at risk on at least two of the legs of the Bosnia trip, as were the soldiers in full body armor surrounding her.

[ProSense]

47. Not a mistake! There would be no greeting ceremony and attempts to run to cars to get to a base

on the front lines. Hillary misrepresented what happened. Period!

[guruoo]

78. So, which landing site is this from?

There were more than one, you know.

[slinkerwink]

86. Hillary told a BIG Whopper that should end her campaign!

[DrFunkenstein]

30. Here Is Another Photo of The Trip to Bosnia

[MannyGoldstein]

34. You're Not Adressing The Alleged Lie

(Sir Edmund?) Hillary's alleged lie is that she landed at the airport under sniper fire. There's nothing in your post that supports this. All reports indicate that this did not happen.

[DrFunkenstein]

39. She Didn't Say WHO Was Conducting The Sniper Fire

[bigtree]

50. Who cares if it was in an attack helicopter or in the plane? The gotcha game is pathetic.

She was clearly at risk at the front-line stops on the trip. That's the point, not some possible misstatement. The two press accounts bear out her version of the danger she faced on her trip, even if that may not have occurred at the stop she described. The real dishonesty is from folks like Sinbad, who doesn't appear to be on the leg of the trip which included the field hospital at Camp Bedrock, in minimizing the obvious risks involved in The First Lady of the United States visiting the front lines of a combat zone.

[MannyGoldstein]

62. She Lied

Even if you substitute "attack helicopter" for "plane", the story is way off of reality.

If this was the first whopper out of the mouth of "Sir Edmund", then it might warrant a pass. But the Prevaricating Pair are serial liars - NAFTA, support for the Iraq War, etc.

[alcibiades_mystery]

63. So the larger point is that she was "at risk," not "under fire"

These seem like distinct states of affairs to most honest people, kinda like the difference between walking around in a dangerous neighborhood and actually being mugged. But hey, I'll leave you to your hero worship.

:rofl:

[bigtree]

74. how do you know she wasn't told they were under fire? How do you know what her understanding was?

My point is, that there WAS a danger of sniper fire, and that, far from Sinbad and others' attempt to make the trip appear safe for the First Lady, it clearly carried dangers, including sniper attacks. How do you know what she was told at the time of her landing?

[alcibiades_mystery]

77. "Told she was under sniper fire"

It seems like the sort of thing you wouldn't need to be told about.

:rofl:

[bigtree]

95. such arrogance. read these, if you give a damn about someone else's perspective

This from Larry Johnson...

I do not have access to her full itinerary back then. It is possible she is recalling a different landing that was not filmed. And it also is possible she is confusing one incident with another. But if the big difference is whether she shook hands after getting off the plane or dashed to the car ducking gunfire, well, at least she was visiting Europe in an official capacity. She was doing more 16 years ago then Obama has accomplished since joining the Senate. Hell, the dude’s passport is still stamp free of European ports of entry.

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/22/the-so-called-hillary-lies-about-bosnia/#more-1895


and from the comment section at WSJ..

by chris

Lissa Muscatine, who served as Hilary Clinton’s chief speechwriter in 1996 and accompanied her on the Bosnia trip, feels that I have failed to provide a full picture of what took place. She gave me her “vivid recollections” of the arrival in Tuzla, which I quote below:

I was on the plane with then First Lady Hillary Clinton for the trip from Germany into Bosnia in 1996. We were put on a C17– a plane capable of steep ascents and descents — precisely because we were flying into what was considered a combat zone. We were issued flak jackets for the final leg because of possible sniper fire near Tuzla. As an additional precaution, the First Lady and Chelsea were moved to the armored cockpit for the descent into Tuzla. We were told that a welcoming ceremony on the tarmac might be canceled because of sniper fire in the hills surrounding the air strip. From Tuzla, Hillary flew to two outposts in Bosnia with gunships escorting her helicopter.

It has been reported she visited 3 bases, not one. Perhaps we could check to see which bases, and which base this video comes from. The schedule indicates Tuzla was where a greeting with an “8yr old child” would take place.

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/FirstLady_Schedule_1996_Mar_25.pdf?mod=WSJBlog

[SaveAmerica]

236. Who is Larry Johnson and how does he know what's on Obama's passport?

ETA my subject line is mostly just joking but when you read what you've quoted from the comments at the WSJ you have to ask yourself why does Hillary's wording about the danger match her speech writer's almost word for word? Is it possible that they needed a experience outside the country, recalled Bosnia, then the speechwriter's recollection of what they were told 'could' happen blended with reality and a completely messed up version of what happened is what Hillary spoke about in her speech recently? You have to admit that what the speech writer says they were told could happen and what Hillary said did happen are not meshing with the videos and pictures. This is one of those times where Hillary recalled things incorrectly and she either has to speak out and say she remembered things wrong or let it go so she it doesn't look negative to the campaign. Either way, this is not helping the campaign.

[bigtree]

240. cute. I love how you make it sound like you're victimized by your own ignorance

[SaveAmerica]

251. I'm trying to help out here, dude. You don't seem to want to help yourself.

[johnnydrama]

295. i'll tell Larry what the difference is

The difference between shaking hands with 8 year olds getting off the plane, and dashing to the car ducking gunfire, is one is a complete and total fabrication, and one is not.

Larry Johnson certainly would not have given Bush a break if he had lied this badly.

[Dinger]

42. Thank You bigtree

And thank God, Hillary got home safe and sound.

[Terry_M]

48. Can someone answer this?

What kind of a parent would have brought their 16 year old kid along with them to face sniper fire if it was really that dangerous? If you're a parent would you have?????

[bigtree]

56. I don't see Chelsea touring the front line position at Camp Bedrock in the photo I posted

There are 'safe' zones in the occupied territory.

[TLM]

282. You mean teh one where she is walking along waving....

presumably at the sniper's nest as a means of intimidation that proves how ready she is to be CiC?


Your picture also supports the position that hill is lying about the danger she faced.... she's walking around waving, not running, head down, to her car.


Where was she running from sniper fire, as she claimed?

[ClassWarrior]

49. Not according to the original articles. LET IT SINK.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5218183&mesg_id=5218403

NGU.

[Tom Rinaldo]

58. Let it sink, eh?

This isn't a thread trashing Obama. This is a thread offering some real information about allegations against Hillary Clinton that many of us did not previously have. It is a discussion thread on which different people have stated their opinions about the relevency about the new information, but it is in no way an unfair attack on Obama.

If this is your viewpoint, "Let it Sink", for any thread posted that is not harmful to Senator Clinton, then you have shifted the goal posts for what constitutes an honest discussion and what should not be rewarded for troll like behavior.

For this day, for this thread, in reply to your attitude, I will periodically return to your post and kick this thread in reply.

[ClassWarrior]

66. Good. People should see the link in my post above. Thanks in advance...

...for highlighting it. By the way, who can argue with the credibility of a "factual" post that begins by calling uncomfortable facts "bullshit?"

:rofl:

NGU.

[maddiejoan]

189. Kicking for TR

[Tom Rinaldo]

191. Thanks mj

I would have thanked you earlier but this thread was too high on the page when I checked :)

[maddiejoan]

192. you're very welcome

ooops --that kind of kicked it again --shoot.



Still I Rise

[Tom Rinaldo]

266. Don't worry about it. Your intentions were good. n/t

[juajen]

296. K & R

NT

[JTFrog]

51. The 3 hour tour of the frontlines at Camp Bedrock?

According to her own schedule, I guess that's just another embellishment?

http://www.clintonlibrary.gov/Documents/HRC%20Years/HRC%201996.pdf

1:45pm Wheels up Helicopter
2:00pm Wheels Down - Camp Bedrock

Tour MASH Unit - Greet Engineering

3:00pm Wheels up Helicopter
3:15 Wheels Down - Tuzla

Looks like a 15 minute trip from previous camp and an hour tour at Bedrock.

So was everyone sitting on their bullet proof vests while she was in the cockpit of the helicopter? Is this where she had to run for cover from the bullets?

*edit link - pdf file

[bigtree]

60. whatever. There was a risk there.

600 soldiers patrolling the zone of separation between the Bosnian Government and Bosnian Serb armies. All of the body armor on the soldiers and weaponry surrounding the First Lady, displayed in the photo I posted of Camp Bedrock, were unnecessary, if we follow your logic.

[JTFrog]

65. So this is where she was running from the bullets and missed her greeting ceremony?

This doesn't debunk shit. I hope you realize that.

No one is saying she didn't go to a place where there was/had been a war going on. They are saying that her recount of it is pretty fucking pathetic and embellished for the sake of politics.

[bigtree]

69. not so 'embellished, in my opinion. Hyped by her detractors to the point of dismissing the danger

. . . is the real pathetic display of 'politics'

[TLM]

283. Did she say....

She landed when there was risk or did she say she was under sniper fire and running to her car with her head down?

[mod mom]

57. WATCH THIS VIDEO:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rj-eskow/how-will-hillarys-bosnia_b_92844.html

[Bensthename]

76. I guess thats why fact check gave her 4 Pinocchio's. The most possible for an untruth.

[shadowknows69]

61. I have to admit bigtree has offered compelling arguements here

I'm reserving judgement on this. I still think it's silly to claim you have more foreign policy experience because you've been shot at. Go for a walk in a major city in the wrong area at night and you too can gain this valuable life experience.

[rodeodance]

185. Now you are not reserving judgment when you go onto make up stuff like your in your post

[shadowknows69]

194. What did I make up?

I was just saying that getting shot at by sniper fire isn't a real good criteria to pick our CIC by. How does it give her any advantage?

[ecdab]

70. Hillary does her own fact check.

Hillary Now

"And we came in, in an evasive maneuver. ... There was no greeting ceremony, and we basically were told to run to our cars. Now, that is what happened."

Hillary in her book "Living History"

"Due to reports of snipers in the hills around the airstrip, we were forced to cut short an event on the tarmac with local children, though we did have time to meet them and their teachers and to learn how hard they had worked during the war to continue classes..."

[ProSense]

82. This doesn't count! n/t

[Dawgs]

200. So, she lied.

:(

[Upton]

81. Hillary is a liar

"I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base."
--Hillary Clinton, speech at George Washington University, March 17, 2008.

That my friends, is a lie.

[bigtree]

90. she states in her book that the 'ceremony' was cut short. So she misspoke

I don't see this as a lie. There was clearly some risk from sniper attacks at some point. Her book says that the 'ceremony' was 'cut short'

"Due to reports of snipers in the hills around the airstrip, we were forced to cut short an event on the tarmac with local children . . . "

The press accounts at the time mentioned the dangers. Maybe she got the time and place during her Bosnia trip wrong. That seems to be a far stretch from a lie. She was under risk of sniper fire. To what degree hasn't been independently confirmed or refuted. All that the WaPo and the others can point to is that there was a short ceremony on the tarmac. There isn't an account of it being cut short, or of ANY of the obvious dangers present. Are folks denying that there were dangers? It is completely believable that the First Lady was informed of the danger she described, in just the terms that she recalls. It's just as plausible that the 'greeting ceremony' was cut short and that 'evasive measures' were indeed taken because of some risk. WaPo should have saved some of those Pinocchio awards for their own dismissal of the danger.

[ProSense]

98. These accounts are inconsistent:

Hillary:

I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base. But it was a moment of great pride for me to visit our troops, not only in our main base as Tuzla, but also at two outposts where they were serving in so many capacities to deactivate and remove landmines, to hunt and seek out those who had not complied with the Dayton Accords and put down their arms, and to build relationships with the people that might lead to a peace for them and their children.

link

That account is false.

Also on March 11, Hillary cited the following article about the front line visit, not the landing at Tuzla:

Mrs. Clinton praises soldiers' efforts

MARKOVICI, Bosnia-Herzegovina - Protected by sharpshooters, Hillary Rodham Clinton swooped into a military zone by Black Hawk helicopter Monday to deliver a personal "thank you, thank you, thank you" to U.S. troops.
By The Associated Press

<...>

But this was a day of celebration and celebrities - a day for the U.S. troops helping to uphold the Bosnian peace accord. Mrs. Clinton hosted a USO show with comedian Sinbad and singer Sheryl Crow and briefly addressed the gathering.

Under hard, gray skies, the first lady told 1,000 cheering soldiers, "The first thing I want to say on behalf of the president and everybody else is thank you, thank you, thank you."

She applauded their efforts to keep peace in this troubled land. "We know we can lead in war," she said. "We are leading in peace."

But the highlight of her trip were visits to two fortified posts outside the U.S. base in Tuzla. Even President Clinton, restricted to the base by bad weather in January, did not see as much of this war-wracked region as Mrs. Clinton did Monday.

The troops seemed to appreciate it: cameras chirped like a thousand crickets as she chatted with mine-disposal experts, examined huge tanks and met a hero or two. Chelsea, 16, kept her usual low profile but remained constantly at her mother's side, posing for soldiers or talking softly with them.

more

Nothing in the article says anything about sniper fire or evasive maneuvers.

[dailykoff]

107. Next: Hillary piloted the plane while returning fire! While it was burning!

On the longest winter night of the year! Blinded by the summer sun!

[mkultra]

118. its a clear lie

she recounted a story of evasive landings by plane and running from the plane to the hanger.

The only landing by plane was the initial. It may or may not have been a dangerous trip but there is no doubt that she is telling fibs.

Maybe you should be arguing the case that here memory of the circumstance must be faulty. If thats the case, then she shouldn't end here little tale with the phrase "and those are the facts"

[slinkerwink]

92. exactly. she lied.

[dailykoff]

94. SHAME ON YOU! She is a ROLE MODEL and FINE EXAMPLE for liars everywhere!

Please delete your post!

[workinclasszero]

87. Scary film of Hillary and Chelsea under sniper fire!!1!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2rtBUfc6YA&feature=related :rofl:

[ecdab]

101. What part of her statement wasn't false? I would seem that every word was a fabrication.

[rodeodance]

102. Thank you Bigtree

[rodeodance]

103. REC

[BootinUp]

106. I don't know how anyone took it seriously

in the first place.

[MethuenProgressive]

111. From Rush to the O-mail email loop to the Internet - that's how lies about Clinton infect DU.

Being poorly informed is one thing, but knowing something is a lie, and then gleefully spamming DU with it?
That's being Republican.
Shame on you, Obama followers.

[ecdab]

115. Those damn right wingers at the New York Times, Washington Post,

Salon.com, and the AP really must get your hackles up with the way they are covering this.

She told a lie - she got busted. She got busted by the Washington Post. She got busted by the New York Times. She got busted by Salon.com. She got busted by the AP.

Shame on you, reality - you are clearly trying to smear Hillary with her own fabricated story.

[bigtree]

133. At best, she mispoke about which landing was the riskier one

Lissa Muscatine, who served as Hilary Clinton’s chief speechwriter in 1996 and accompanied her on the Bosnia trip, feels that I have failed to provide a full picture of what took place. She gave me her “vivid recollections” of the arrival in Tuzla, which I quote below:

I was on the plane with then First Lady Hillary Clinton for the trip from Germany into Bosnia in 1996. We were put on a C17– a plane capable of steep ascents and descents — precisely because we were flying into what was considered a combat zone. We were issued flak jackets for the final leg because of possible sniper fire near Tuzla. As an additional precaution, the First Lady and Chelsea were moved to the armored cockpit for the descent into Tuzla. We were told that a welcoming ceremony on the tarmac might be canceled because of sniper fire in the hills surrounding the air strip. From Tuzla, Hillary flew to two outposts in Bosnia with gunships escorting her helicopter.

It has been reported she visited 3 bases, not one. Perhaps we could check to see which bases, and which base this video comes from. The schedule indicates Tuzla was where a greeting with an “8yr old child” would take place.

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/22/the-so-called-hillary-lies-about-bosnia/#more-1895

[mkultra]

113. her story is a lie

she says that they landed on a c130 avoiding fire and ran from the plane to the hanger.


The main landing was the only one by plane(as you pointed out)

[ecdab]

119. Here is her complete schedule for her heroic 9 hour trip to Bosnia

Clinton landed at Tuzla Air Base at 8:45 a.m. and was greeting at a ceremony that included U.S. ambassador John Menzies, a seventh-grade class and an 8-year-old Bosnian girl who read Clinton a poem.

She went to a meeting with Acting President Ejup Ganic, which lasted 10 minutes. This was followed by a "roundtable discussion" moderated by Menzies from 9:35 to 10:45. Clinton was then supposed to meet with some nongovernmental organizations for 30 minutes.

She then received a very important-sounding "Task Force Eagle" briefing. It lasted 15 minutes. Next, Clinton got an hourlong tour of a military camp, lunch with the troops and a second hourlong tour of another military camp. (Travel between locations took some time, too.)

By 3:45 it was time for a show for the troops back at Tuzla, with entertainment provided by singer Sheryl Crow and comedian Sinbad. She flew out of Bosnia at 5:45 p.m.

[bigtree]

126. that's a summary which doesn't mention any of the obvious dangers at all

No mention of the obvious precautions . . . You would think, from the description of the trip in this summary that they weren't in the separation zone between the warring factions, with the thousands of U.S. troops in full combat gear and loaded up with weapons and armored vehicles surrounding the First Lady in the photo I posted. According to your interpretation of the conditions on the ground where she landed, these soldiers on obvious alert were a bit silly all dressed to kill, huh?

[ecdab]

The Bosnian conflict officially ended in 1995, this was 1996.

[bigtree]

137. If you bother to google accounts from the camps, you'll find that sniper fire was common

as well as threats from bombs and other violence from the insurgency on both sides.

[ecdab]

146. Yet Hillary never had to duck and run from snipers, she was never

under sniper fire. The greeting ceremony was never canceled.

The points you are making do make what Hillary said any less of a fabrication. It was a complete fabrication.

[bigtree]

147. How do you know that didn't occur on the trip? Sounds like she's just recalling it wrong

rather than some outright lie, as folks are suggesting. Got the time and place and order of events confused. The danger from snipers was real, as has been confirmed by several of the sources posted in this thread. Who cares where it occurred on the trip, or in what order or location?

[ecdab]

151. She made up events to make herself look better,

anybody who cares about reality can note the disconnect between her statement and the truth.

The fact there was danger from sniper fire, which again - her own people call nothing out of the ordinary and thus non-existent when the ordinary acceptable threat level is considered, doesn't justify her making up a story to benefit her political aspirations.

[bigtree]

164. the sniper risk was real. Most of the precautions she took have been confirmed

by a staff member traveling with her. The only thing left unconfirmed is the running and ducking for cover, which is completely believable.

[ecdab]

182. What do precautions taken have to do with her statement? She wasn't talking about precautions

That would be you talking about precautions. I am addressing the story she fabricated, not the spin you are trying to create.

[bigtree]

208. running for cover instead of strolling to the vehicles as a clear target

. . . for a sniper. Stretch your mind beyond your bias.

[bigtree]

120. maybe she confused the landings, but to call it a lie is just politics (as usual)

This from Larry Johnson...

I do not have access to her full itinerary back then. It is possible she is recalling a different landing that was not filmed. And it also is possible she is confusing one incident with another. But if the big difference is whether she shook hands after getting off the plane or dashed to the car ducking gunfire, well, at least she was visiting Europe in an official capacity. She was doing more 16 years ago then Obama has accomplished since joining the Senate. Hell, the dude’s passport is still stamp free of European ports of entry.

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/22/the-so-called-hillary-lies-about-bosnia/#more-1895


and from the comment section at WSJ..

Lissa Muscatine, who served as Hilary Clinton’s chief speechwriter in 1996 and accompanied her on the Bosnia trip, feels that I have failed to provide a full picture of what took place. She gave me her “vivid recollections” of the arrival in Tuzla, which I quote below:

I was on the plane with then First Lady Hillary Clinton for the trip from Germany into Bosnia in 1996. We were put on a C17– a plane capable of steep ascents and descents — precisely because we were flying into what was considered a combat zone. We were issued flak jackets for the final leg because of possible sniper fire near Tuzla. As an additional precaution, the First Lady and Chelsea were moved to the armored cockpit for the descent into Tuzla. We were told that a welcoming ceremony on the tarmac might be canceled because of sniper fire in the hills surrounding the air strip. From Tuzla, Hillary flew to two outposts in Bosnia with gunships escorting her helicopter.

It has been reported she visited 3 bases, not one. Perhaps we could check to see which bases, and which base this video comes from. The schedule indicates Tuzla was where a greeting with an “8yr old child” would take place.

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/22/the-so-called-hillary-lies-about-bosnia/#more-1895

[mkultra]

124. her stops are accuonted at the clinton library

She made several stops in kosovo but only one by plane. The problem is not polotics, the problem is credibility. She told a rich story of a dangerouse plane landing, swooping in, the agility of the plane itself, her moving up to the cockpit, the run from the plane to the hanger.



None of this is even possible if the clinton library records are correct.


So either
1) the records are wrong
2) some one fabricated and impresive video of a pres conference with hillary
3) she forgot and thought up a cool replacment story
4) she outright lied.


The facts are out on this big, i suggest you take a look for yourself.

[bigtree]

134. this lady must be lying as well

Lissa Muscatine, who served as Hilary Clinton’s chief speechwriter in 1996 and accompanied her on the Bosnia trip, feels that I have failed to provide a full picture of what took place. She gave her “vivid recollections” of the arrival in Tuzla:

I was on the plane with then First Lady Hillary Clinton for the trip from Germany into Bosnia in 1996. We were put on a C17– a plane capable of steep ascents and descents — precisely because we were flying into what was considered a combat zone. We were issued flak jackets for the final leg because of possible sniper fire near Tuzla. As an additional precaution, the First Lady and Chelsea were moved to the armored cockpit for the descent into Tuzla. We were told that a welcoming ceremony on the tarmac might be canceled because of sniper fire in the hills surrounding the air strip. From Tuzla, Hillary flew to two outposts in Bosnia with gunships escorting her helicopter.

It has been reported she visited 3 bases, not one. Perhaps we could check to see which bases, and which base this video comes from. The schedule indicates Tuzla was where a greeting with an “8yr old child” would take place.

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/22/the-so-called-hillary-lies-about-bosnia/#more-1895

[ProSense]

140. It's damage control and the two updates are inconsistent and still do not support Hillary's account

UPDATE Friday 6:45 p.m.

Lissa Muscatine, who served as Hilary Clinton's chief speechwriter in 1996 and accompanied her on the Bosnia trip, feels that I have failed to provide a full picture of what took place. She gave me her "vivid recollections" of the arrival in Tuzla, which I quote below:

I was on the plane with then First Lady Hillary Clinton for the trip from Germany into Bosnia in 1996. We were put on a C17-- a plane capable of steep ascents and descents -- precisely because we were flying into what was considered a combat zone. We were issued flak jackets for the final leg because of possible sniper fire near Tuzla. As an additional precaution, the First Lady and Chelsea were moved to the armored cockpit for the descent into Tuzla. We were told that a welcoming ceremony on the tarmac might be canceled because of sniper fire in the hills surrounding the air strip. From Tuzla, Hillary flew to two outposts in Bosnia with gunships escorting her helicopter.

UPDATE Saturday 8:45 a.m.

Gen. Nash says that I misquoted him in saying he was unaware of any "security threat" to the First Lady. While he was unaware of any "sniper threat," he now tells me there were a couple of "security concerns" that day, which he found out about after returning to his headquarters after greeting Clinton at the airport. There was a "non-specific report" of a possible truck bomb in the area. The military also had information that "some of the communications associated with the First Lady's visit were being monitored."

"In both cases, we took appropriate security action," said Nash, adding that Clinton's visit was not disrupted.

Anybody else with first-hand memories of Clinton's Tuzla trip, please send them along.

link

Wow they have very good inconsistent memories, which Hillary doesn't (have a good memory).

Truck bomb? Hills?

How does this square with Hillary's account evasive maneuvers and running under sniper fire to get to cars?

Wow, they have a General in damage control over Hillary's lie!

[cliffordu]

181. A C-17 globemaster is one of the biggest planes in the world.....

You just got had by your own information, again, bigtree....

I don't think the C-17 was able to land in Tuzla.....


try again real soon, though..... :hi:

[F.Gordon]

271. Hi Red Baron

:hi:

Take off from a 7,600-ft. airfield, carry a payload of 160,000 pounds, fly 2,400 nautical miles, refuel while in flight and land in 3,000 ft. or less on a small unpaved or paved airfield in day or night.

Ya' all come back now
:hi:

[mkultra]

195. i havent heard of her

but her story does jive closely with hillary's own. He story also doesn't mention anything about events on the tarmac after the landing.

I think it is very believable that the plane would have procedures in place to prevent damage from potential sniper fire so the part about flak jackets and the move to the cockpit seem legit.

[TwilightGardener]

235. A C-17 isn't for "special" areas or maneuvers--it's the Air Force's main cargo plane--

it was the replacement for the old C-141 Starlifter fleet, which started being retired in the early 1990's. They are confusing super-duper heightened security precautions against potential danger with ACTUAL danger.

[OzarkDem]

129. No it isn't

and those who wish to paint her as such are only showing their fear of strong women.

[ecdab]

156. This has nothing to do with strong women - this is about Hillary

making up stories to look like a strong women.

Read her statement - and then tell me the parts that don't contradict reality. Her statement is a complete fabrication - a made-up story - a lie.

[OzarkDem]

128. Armchair quarterbacks

How ridiculous are these people who appear to think they were all on the same plane.

What's at the base of this? Does her willingness to put herself in dangerous situations to help advance peace interfere with Clinton's opponents' desire to paint her as a scheming, self serving witch who only served tea in the WH?

This part of her background challenges the sexist stereotypes of her critics. They're also trying to minimize her experience when she runs against McCain. Get over it boys, you're making yourselves look like fools.

BTW, how many foreign policy trips to dangerous war zones has Obama made?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

130. they care more about hating than facts....thank you for posting facts

[SaveOurDemocracy]

131. They don't want facts, bigtree... they just want to attack .

We are supposed to understand:

~ how Obama sat there for 20 years but never 'heard' Rev Wright make disparaging remarks about the country he wants to be CIC of...
~ what he REALLY meant with his "typical white person" remark ...
~ that he REALLY didn't know that Rezko was a crook ...
~ on and on and on ...

If it doesn't glorify Obama, it's dismissed as lies, and becomes another good opportunity for them to gang-bang HRC. Don't expect any understanding from them.

[suston96]

135. Wash Post had to up date their "Fact-Check...."

UPDATE Friday 6:45 p.m.

Lissa Muscatine, who served as Hilary Clinton's chief speechwriter in 1996 and accompanied her on the Bosnia trip, feels that I have failed to provide a full picture of what took place. She gave me her "vivid recollections" of the arrival in Tuzla, which I quote below:

I was on the plane with then First Lady Hillary Clinton for the trip from Germany into Bosnia in 1996. We were put on a C17-- a plane capable of steep ascents and descents -- precisely because we were flying into what was considered a combat zone. We were issued flak jackets for the final leg because of possible sniper fire near Tuzla. As an additional precaution, the First Lady and Chelsea were moved to the armored cockpit for the descent into Tuzla. We were told that a welcoming ceremony on the tarmac might be canceled because of sniper fire in the hills surrounding the air strip. From Tuzla, Hillary flew to two outposts in Bosnia with gunships escorting her helicopter.

UPDATE Saturday 8:45 a.m.

Gen. Nash says that I misquoted him in saying he was unaware of any "security threat" to the First Lady. While he was unaware of any "sniper threat," he now tells me there were a couple of "security concerns" that day, which he found out about after returning to his headquarters after greeting Clinton at the airport. There was a "non-specific report" of a possible truck bomb in the area. The military also had information that "some of the communications associated with the First Lady's visit were being monitored."

"In both cases, we took appropriate security action," said Nash, adding that Clinton's visit was not disrupted.

Sniper threat? Truck bomb threat? Is there really a difference? "Security concerns" existed, according to Gen. Nash.

Edited to add link: http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/03/hillarys_balkan_adventures_par.html

[bigtree]

136. there will be more 'updates', I predict. Thanks for posting this.

[suston96]

144. No problem. The lies and hate just keep on growing with people little realizing that.....

...Democrats leaving the Democratic Party mean that Congress may be at risk also.

[intaglio]

291. so now that Wolfson has admitted Hillary "Misspoke"

Are you going to deny the liars and haters? or do you only hate liars and haters when they do not support the annointed one?

[Bonobo]

155. Running with our heads down on the tarmac would have created some powerful memories I would think.

Where is the substantiation of that?

[mkultra]

196. i think precautions in any potentially hostile area are standard.

[rocktivity]

138. If Hillary has mistaken or mis-remembered what happened

then she ought to clarify it herself.

:headbang:
rocknation

[bigtree]

142. maybe she will. I personally think this has been hyped out of the zone of reality

. . . and presented by her detractors as a trip which had ZERO elements of the dangers she described. I've provided accounts which confirm those dangers. Who cares where they occurred on the trip, or in which order or location on the trip? This is nitpicking to the point of dishonesty as to the substance of her statement -- the danger from snipers and the evasive tactics they employed.

[barb162]

141. Terrific post; K & R

[Upton]

143. Here's what really happened at Tuzla

8:45 am WHEELS DOWN in Tuzla, Bosnia

8:55 am DEBOARD
8:55 am ARRIVAL
Format:
-- Ambassador Menzies intros HRC
-- 8 year-old Bosnian Girl reads a poem to HRC
-- HRC greets 7th grade class
9:15 am DEPART Airport
EN ROUTE Headquarters


According to her schedule released from the Clinton library

http://www.clintonlibrary.gov/Documents/HRC%20Years/HRC%201996.pdf (large pdf)

[bigtree]

145. you left out the attack helicopter landings at Camp Alicia and Camp Bedrock

the landings are included in this schedule . . .

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/FirstLady_Schedule_1996_Mar_25.pdf

[noamnety]

154. She was not talking about helicopters

“Part of the reason we were in the C-17 is because part of it is armored,” Clinton said. “I was moved up into the cockpit. Everyone else was told to sit on their bullet proof vests. We came in in an evasive maneuver. Those of you who have been on a C-17 or C-130 know that one of their great characteristics is that they can take off very quickly and they can maneuver agilely to avoid incoming fire.

[bigtree]

160. so what? The risk existed and she recalled that risk. What's the relevance of where it occurred

on a deplaning or getting out of a helicopter? The nitpicking seems desperate. You folks have just gotta say she's a liar or you won't be satisfied.

here's one account any way which backs up 90% of what you posted

WaPo update on their 'fact-check'

UPDATE Friday 6:45 p.m.

Lissa Muscatine, who served as Hilary Clinton's chief speechwriter in 1996 and accompanied her on the Bosnia trip, feels that I have failed to provide a full picture of what took place. She gave me her "vivid recollections" of the arrival in Tuzla, which I quote below:

I was on the plane with then First Lady Hillary Clinton for the trip from Germany into Bosnia in 1996. We were put on a C17-- a plane capable of steep ascents and descents -- precisely because we were flying into what was considered a combat zone. We were issued flak jackets for the final leg because of possible sniper fire near Tuzla. As an additional precaution, the First Lady and Chelsea were moved to the armored cockpit for the descent into Tuzla. We were told that a welcoming ceremony on the tarmac might be canceled because of sniper fire in the hills surrounding the air strip. From Tuzla, Hillary flew to two outposts in Bosnia with gunships escorting her helicopter.

[NM Independent]

270. You sound like Dick Cheney..."So..."

Get overy yourself, and stop denigrating people that say something you just don't like.

Tell me this...

If she was in any danger at all in the photograph in your OP. Then WHY DIDN'T SHE HAVE A FLACK JACKET AND HELMET ON THEN!?!?!?!?!?

Your logic is very flawed, me thinks. She made a statement and at the end, "...now that is what happened." It doesn't sound like she wants it any more clear cut than that.

Liar, Liar, suitpants on fire!!!!

[rocktivity]

162. Helicopters are not C-17s, and MASH are not fortified airfields.

How could she have gotten them so confused?

In this video, Hillary insists that she ran under sniper fire from a C-17 and that there was no greeting ceremony. If she got the aircraft or the city wrong, she needs to say so and put an end to all this speculation because it's undermining both her credibility and mental stability.

:headbang:
rocknation

[bigtree]

165. she probably will. The 'concern' about her statement is an invention of the Obama camp

Show me where this is 'undermining her credibility' among those who don't already have some interest and hand in that effort.

[rocktivity]

187. I meant that her story undermines her OWN credibility

in the absence of evidence or witnesses to back it up.

:headbang:
rocknation

[bigtree]

210. her speechwriter confirmed the 'evasive procedures' and the reports of snipers

And it doesn't take an investigative reporter to realize the obvious dangers in the Bosnia COMBAT ZONE are real enough to support such an account, even if the particulars have been jumbled. The attempts to dismiss the obvious dangers to the First Lady traveling to the war zone on behalf of the U.S. are sad.

[XemaSab]

218. I think the "ghetto" example above is apt

There's a difference between riding in a car through East Oakland and actually being shot at or mugged.

In the first instance, there's the risk of danger. In the second instance, there's actual danger.

It's that simple. :shrug:

[bigtree]

224. Sniper fire was common in this area. And you have no way of knowing What she was told

by the security forces escorting her about the threats to her safety. This was much more than some driveby of a bad neighborhood. That argument is dishonest and sad.

[rocktivity]

238. Does the speechewriter report landing under and running from sniper fire?

Or deny that there was a greeting ceremony?

Of course there's always the POTENTIAL of danger in a combat zone. Hillary's story is about the REALITY of it, and no one is backing her up.

:headbang:
rockantion

[bigtree]

246. No, that hasn't been corroborated yet. Doesn't make it false though.

and there is evidence that there were risks, as she described, which would have required flack jackets and haste to the waiting vehicles,

[rocktivity]

263. According to an WaPo FactCheck update:

I was on the plane with then First Lady Hillary Clinton for the trip from Germany into Bosnia in 1996. We were put on a C17--a plane capable of steep ascents and descents--precisely because we were flying into what was considered a combat zone. We were issued flak jackets for the final leg because of possible sniper fire near Tuzla. As an additional precaution, the First Lady and Chelsea were moved to the armored cockpit for the descent into Tuzla. We were told that a welcoming ceremony on the tarmac might be canceled because of sniper fire in the hills surrounding the air strip...

--Lissa Muscatine, speechwriter

No mention of sniper fire while or after landing--though the plane may have landed on a evasive manouver as a precaution. But under the circumstances, I think Muscatine would definitively state whether or not they run to their cars under flying bullets or if the ceremony hadn't taken place.

:headbang:
rocknation

[bigtree]

269. Clinton's statement clearly says the PLANE was under sniper fire

sounds like two separate events. And, running to the vehicles on an open tarmac in a war zone wouldn't be unusual.

[Jersey Devil]

149. Canon to the right of her, canon to the left of her

Cannon in front of them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of Hell
Rode the six hundred.

[NashVegas]

150. This Is So Not Surprising

Why should the so-called liberal blog pundits be expected to do their homework anymore than the mainstream press?

[hulka38]

152. Stop digging Bigtree, for Chrissakes.

[bigtree]

159. when the Obama camp stops smearing

for Chrissakes.

[ecdab]

161. I still waiting for you tell me what part of her statement was true,

and that would be true in the sense of being, well, truthful - as in representing the truth of what happened. Not some metaphysical representation of some confabulated truth that could have occurred if reality had been shifted slightly from the actually events that occurred.

[bigtree]

170. read the thread. If it doesn't satisfy you, I won't lose a breath over it.

I promise. I've blown my top on this.

[ecdab]

183. It's hard to find the truth inside her lie isn't it - because it isn't there.

[bigtree]

233. so sad for you to be promoting this attack on Clinton's trip

what a fine group of folks you stand with, denigrating the obvious risks of a First Lady traveling into a COMBAT ZONE. You must be so proud.

[ecdab]

254. It wasn't a combat zone - the war had ended. There were a few

folks that hadn't turned in their weapons hiding out in the hills.

You are doing what Hillary did - trying to make her trip into something more glorious than it was in reality.

[ruggerson]

158. This doesn't surprise me as most of these attacks turn out to be lies

thanks bigtree

[cliffordu]

163. Why would you drag that obviously photoshopped

piece of junk into a serious political forum??

Nice try, I ain't buyin'

:puke:

[bigtree]

169. It's an AP photo. It's linked. Of all the idiotic charges . . .

your bullshit takes the prize

[cliffordu]

172. It STILL looks like a photoshop job -

Look at the shadow values, look at the outline around the Hillary/secret service figures against the background, see any fringing??

And if she is in any danger, why the fuck isn't she or anyone else wearing protective headgear or vests??


Why are the security detail all looking almost straight down in different directions, at nothing at all?? Is the ground uneven? if so, why isn't she watching her step?? Those three guys behind her look like they were pasted in from a third photo - why is there no security out front of her??

This whole layout, from the position of the people in it, to the focus and color values - the quality of the light in it, and the value of the blacks in the picture are ALL WRONG.

Someone 'enhanced' this photo. All your posturing won't change that.

[bigtree]

216. YYOU make the Charge that AP shopped the photo?? Proof?????

And you are questioning the credibility of CLINTON? This is an AP photo, taken by a field photographer.

Here's the post I made the day these came up on Yahoo.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4968462

They've been archived, but if you google the caption underneath it takes you to the Yahoo pic page, at least, even if they don't have the photo in circulation any more. Your charges are pathetic and sad.

[cliffordu]

219. AP has purchased altered photos before,

a google search will set you free.

[bigtree]

226. you've got nothing but your smear. You google. You've made the charge.

You prove it. I think the effort is idiotic and juvenile. It was obviously taken by a field photographer.

[cliffordu]

252. Nope. You're the one claiming that which is false to be true.

:hurts:

[rodeodance]

264. YOU are one claiming it was photocropped, so YOU* need to provide evidense.

[Onlooker]

171. Good post. It debunks a dishonest Obama meme

But, the Obama people already got it out there, so Clinton is too late unless she makes the issue into a campaign commercial. It would be smart of her campaign to try to discredit Obama's campaign, rather than Obama, but I'll doubt they'll do it.

[Maribelle]

173. In her blog of March 11, Lynn Sweet bashed Obama for pulling this crap ...

Bosnia

The Obama campaign has resorted to mocking Hillary's trip to Bosnia in 1996, belittling it as a U.S.O. tour and saying there was no danger. But Hillary toured the frontlines of the international peacekeeping mission. CNN reported:


At a second outpost, Camp Bedrock, Mrs. Clinton visited a M.A.S.H. unit, the only full-service U.S. Army hospital in Bosnia. The three-hour tour of the frontlines of the international peacekeeping mission were filled with the gritty reality of a military operation, a far cry from traditional first lady photo opportunities, and Mrs. Clinton seemed more than comfortable with that.


A day later, the Charleston Gazette reported that "Protected by sharpshooters, Hillary Rodham Clinton swooped into a military zone by Black Hawk helicopter Monday…This trip to Bosnia marks the first time since Roosevelt that a first lady has voyaged to a potential combat zone…"

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/03/sweet_clinton_calls_obamas_gre.html

Poor widdle desperate "Obama the uniter" and his loyal lemmings, who prove no lie or smear against Hillary is beneath them.

[rodeodance]

180. "The Obama campaign has resorted to mocking Hillary's trip to Bosnia " YUP they have.

[bvar22]

176. There are some "problems" with your photo, bigtree.

1) This photo has been "shopped".
The contrast and sharpness of the Hillary Group is vastly different than the backdrop photo.
It appears to be a Paste In.
Even a casual non-professional will notice that there is something wrong with this photo.


2) These soldiers are NOT under threat from sniper fire (or ANY other threat).
Their weapons are slung and they are casually standing completely upright on a ridgeline or highpoint.
They are facing the WRONG direction if there was ANY threat to Hillary, they would be facing outwards.
These guys are watching a parade of REMFs.
Not only is there NO threat in this photo, but this is an area that has taken NO sniper fire for a long time.
Soldiers under threat from sniper fire face the threat and never stand upright with their weapons slung on highpoints.

This PHOTO is BOGUS if you are using it to imply that Hillary was under any danger what-so-ever.
In Fact, it PROVES the opposite.

[maddiejoan]

190. Obviously

you are no photographer.

It's called Depth of Field.

Gee --why would a photographer adjust their lens to focus on the First Lady.

[bvar22]

201. Actually, I AM a decent photographer,

and I also have decent digital manipulation skills.
The photo looks suspicious to me.
But for the sake of argument, lets assume the photo is genuine as is:

What do you say about my #2 point?
That the weapons slung, upright posture on highground, inward facing soldiers PROVE that there was absolutely NO threat of snipers (or ANY other threat) in the area of this photograph.

[maddiejoan]

204. I'd say you are looking

at at brief second in time --of a small field of activity. It can at best tell a very incomplete story.

But being a photographer --you would know that.

[mkultra]

197. sorry dude

im a bit more than a casual nonprofessional and it looks legit to me.

Youll notice that the ground near clinton is in focus showing that the focal point was befor the tank(or whatever the hell it is) not on it.

You can also see this when you compare the lack of focus between the closest helmet and the next one.

It is clear though that no one in that picture was in any danger.

[bigtree]

217. no danger? Then all of the body armor on the troops and the armored vehicle were just a waste then.

. . . silly soldiers, all geared up for combat.

[mkultra]

220. yeah, no danger

Military dress for potential danger.

[bigtree]

229. potential danger. What quibbling. I KNOW if this was Obama there, you'd be defending him

so dishonest.

[mkultra]

241. the existence of troops doesnt mean shes dodging sniper fire.

[bigtree]

245. I didn't read her response as 'dodging' as much as I understood that she meant evasive procedures

. . . like ducking and running to the vehicles meeting her at the landing strip, instead of making herself an open target by merely strolling, because of the risk from snipers in the hills adjacent.

[mkultra]

255. even that didnt happen

[bigtree]

213. IT's an AP photo. LINKED to the AP!! Do really believe THEY SHOPPED THE PHOTO????

This photo also appeared along with the NYT article at the time. YOU are FULL OF SHIT on this.

[bvar22]

223. No.

If you are using THIS photo to suggest that Hillary was anywhere NEAR "snipers" or ANY combat activity, YOU are full of shit.
THIS is a photo of a REMF Parade in a COMPLETELY secure area.

[bigtree]

247. The point of the photo was not to show the incident or the area where Clinton said she was told

. . . of risk from sniper fire. It's my offer of visual proof that there were other spots, this one at the FIELD hospital, where there would be obvious dangers. What threat do you suppose the soldiers there were equipped and alert against?

[SaveAmerica]

250. And why is she so happy if she's under fire? "Hi ya'll! This is some sniper fire we're having today!

I agree the picture doesn't serve the purpose of showing her visit to be dangerous. It does show that she visited our troops when they were on a mission overseas, in her recent speech she shouldn't have made more out of what happened. The visit, even if it was a quick 9 hour, USO, goodwill visit in a location where danger was possible would have stood on it's own without the additional misinformation, misspeaking, whatever anyone wants to call it. This is a mess and I think Hillary supporters should 'let it lie' and let Hillary make a comment and clean it up if she wants to.

[Skip Intro]

179. All they have are lies.

[Lucinda]

188. Link to actual AP article from the Gazette - March 26 1996:

http://sundaygazettemail.com/News/200803110472

March 26, 1996
Mrs. Clinton praises soldiers' efforts
By The Associated Press

MARKOVICI, Bosnia-Herzegovina - Protected by sharpshooters, Hillary Rodham Clinton swooped into a military zone by Black Hawk helicopter Monday to deliver a personal "thank you, thank you, thank you" to U.S. troops.

"They're making a difference," the first lady said of the 18,500 Americans working as peacekeepers in Bosnia.

Mrs. Clinton became the first presidential spouse since Eleanor Roosevelt to make such an extensive trip into what can be considered a hostile area, though others have visited hot spots.

More at link...

[NashVegas]

202. Great Find

Loves me those cheap Obama smears.

[Lucinda]

205. Thanks! There is also a blip out there somewhere that quotes Sinbad

saying it actually was a tough trip....can't find it anymore. :(
There are sooooooooo many sites with his snarkier comments that I've been having trouble locating it...I'm still looking though. :)

[bigtree]

211. if you google Camp Alicia and Camp Bedrock you can get accounts of the risks from snipers

One soldier remarked how dangerous it was because the locals had a habit of firing their guns into the air without concern about where the bullets would land. I found that, in 1996, there were obvious risks from the insurgency on both sides of the separated combatants.

[Lucinda]

234. Thanks! I figured there were usually problems since they had sharpshooters on hand.

Will do a little more reading!

[rodeodance]

193. k

[Lucinda]

198. :)

[anigbrowl]

203. Then she should have been a little more cautious in her own description

If she had said 'I went to Bosnia and did some important work in a war-torn country' it wouldn't be an issue. She chose to dramatise by saying they were running from the plane with their heads down - and you know this, because I quoted the opening of her speech, from her website, when we discussed this the other day.

[bigtree]

209. so what? This is like schoolchildren taunting a classmate.

BFD. There WAS danger on that trip to the Bosnia COMBAT ZONES. All of the back and forth about where that danger occurred, what Clinton was told about sniper fire, and what evasive procedures she undertook, are all ignoring the obvious point of the exchange -- that she HAS risked her safety on behalf of the U.S.

ALL public officials who venture abroad on the behalf of the country are risking their lives, especially when flying into places like Camp Alicia (in the separation zone between the warring parties in Bosnia) and Camp Bedrock (the field hospital she visited). The attempt to minimize the risks involved in the First Lady of the United States traveling into a war zone is sad.

[Drunken Irishman]

206. Your fact checking needs some fact checking.

This is unrelated to Clinton's original claim that when she flew into Tuzla there was a major risk of sniper activity. She even stated the ceremony they had planned on the tarmac of the airport was canceled because of the major risk she was under flying into this region. Except she also had her daughter with here and there was in fact a ceremony out on the tarmac.

This separate incident -- which has nothing to do with her original claims -- still does not prove she was under sniper fire and had to run for cover. Even your own photo shows her OPENLY walking around, smiling and waving. It doesn't look like someone who, at any second, could be shot. SHE LIED and it's dishonest of you to say she did not. Her own words defied reality and even if you state she mixed her landings up, it does not change her claims that A) She had to run from the plane to the car, because there was this unbelievable risk of a sniper opening fire on everyone and B) a ceremony had been canceled. Those two points suggest to me she was not mistaken and was lying about this issue. You don't change the story on something you forget and if she forgot about the landing in Tuzla, how the hell did she remember there was a ceremony (which she said didn't happen) and that she had to run from the plane to the car because of possible oncoming sniper fire (didn't happen)? Even in your report, it does not say snipers were out and that she had to duck and cover AT ANY POINT. That is where her story falls apart. That is where she lied.

[mkultra]

222. so bigtree, are you trolling

It kind of looks like it.

[bigtree]

227. You sit behind your computer dishing out your innuendo and smears

now you're directing them at me. That's despicable and sad. Countless posts here spreading the story that Clinton lied on this. One post defending her, and you think its proper to question MY credibility by calling me a troll? Have at it.

BTW, Who the fuck are you? And, what are you doing with your 'troll' post?

[mkultra]

239. its not your defense that makes me wonder

Its the vileness of your way.

I do think its proper to question your motives.

[bigtree]

242. vileness?

Nice. Love the concern angle.

[mkultra]

256. didnt realize i was obligated to take that tact

[mkultra]

257. oh, and btw, i sit in front of my computer

the power cables are behind it. Maybe this is why you haven't read about Hillary yet.

[intaglio]

292. so what about Howard Wolfson?

so what about the inconsistencies? Why do you not condemn people who have misled you, bigtree? or are you just afraid to admit she has you fooled?

[BlooInBloo]

225. Tell me more about the snipers on the tarmac then plz.

[bigtree]

228. All we have, so far, is the word of Clinton and her speechwriter.

And the reports in the press about the obvious dangers on the trip. But, you go ahead and minimize those risks from your comfortable seat at the keyboard.

[BlooInBloo]

231. Can't minimize something that's made up.

[bigtree]

232. sure there are no risks in a COMBAT ZONE. It's all in the military's silly heads.

[ecdab]

260. There was no combat zone - there wasn't even a war going on!

It had ended in 1995 - get that through your head. On top of that American forces never engaged in the actual combat zones when the war was going on - they were there as peace keepers only. Hillary never came close to an actual combat zone - there were none to come close to.

You appear to have fabricated a very strange set of events regarding what was going on in Bosnia in 1996 and how Hillary related to those contrived events. Get a grip, reality isn't such a bad thing. You and Hillary might both find it to be a refreshing change of pace.

[bigtree]

267. all of those soldiers in all of that combat gear were just slumming

and snipers are NEVER a risk in occupied territory separating combatants.

Right?

[TLM]

284. The picture you posted proves it...

There was NO sniper danger.... if there was she'd at least have on a helmet.... and the troops would damn sure not be standing on the high points and ridges.

Where is she running from sniper fire to her car, like she said?

[bigtree]

268. no risk from snipers? Delusion.

[ecdab]

280. Zero US soldiers got hit by snipers during the entire peace keeping

operation in Bosnia. Zero. But again - some minimal risk of sniper fire that may have existed (though Hillary's own people dismissed the risk AT THE TIME) has nothing to do with her statement - nothing - she wasn't talking about possible sniper fire, she was talking about actual sniper fire - she was talking about a ceremony being canceled because of sniper fire that was not canceled, she was talking about being forced to run to her vehicle because of the risk of sniper fire when in reality she was able to stop and greet the President of Bosnia on the Tarmac (who had a lot more to fear from sniper fire than her) and listen to an 8 year old child recite a poem. She lied, I don't know what is so hard to understand here. Did the events she described happen? No, no they didn't. Has she repeated this claim more than once? Yes, yes she has. All she really needs to do is say "hmmm, I seem to remember this set of events incorrectly" and this story will go away - but she won't, because it's part of her thin veneer of "experience" that she has bound her presidential campaign to.

[mkultra]

258. from my keyboard i also saw the video of her landing

which is th other thing that we have. You know, the thing that proves shes a liar.

[UALRBSofL]

237. I am not surprised that the MSM and the Obama Camp would

fabricate the issues. It just goes to show how they cherry pick, choose sound bites and distort the facts. Are Obama's supporters who are doing these dirty politics a reflection of Obama's Campaign, a reflection of Obama's character and leadership. This is something the public will have to deside upon in the coming months as we see more of the underhanded ways the Obama Campaign will go to win the democratic nomination.

Obama has been caught in several lies during this campaign, most recently when he said he had never heard any of Wright's inflammatory comments before but admitted the next day in his speech that he had. Or when he told an interviewer that Austan Goolsbee had never met with Canadian officials - "didn't happen" were his words - and subsequently a memo surfaced which caused Goolsbee himself to admit the meeting had occurred. The difference is that he is never called to account for these untruths either by the media or his loyalists. Clinton recalled the Bosnia flight as one where she and Chelsea were ordered into the cockpit and told to wear flak jackets, then advised of potential sniper fire on the ground. Her statements are cherrypicked and made to look like monstrous lies. All's fair in politics, but at least admit the possibility that Barack Obama's campaign plays the spin game and shades the truth with the best of them.

[Catherina]

244. Your OP is bullshit Bigtree. We've already been over this but here goes again

Hillary's words are that she landed in a C-17. There is only one landing strip there that can accommodate a C17. The other small trip was by helicopter which makes it categorically not the mini-trip she's talking about. From the C-17, she said they had to RUN to the cars and skip the welcoming ceremony because the sniper fire was so dangerous. That's a whopper. They didn't run to any cars and the Welcome Ceremony went ahead as scheduled.

US soldiers filed this story under Lying Is Stupid When The Truth Is So Easy To Find I suggest you do the same because your spin is the stuff that justifies mockery of Democrats.

She flew onto the airbase in a C-17 and snipers where the least of her, or anyone elses problems. She even took the time to give a speech (presumably after she dodged the snipers)

Not only did she fly in and out of Tuzla, a camp so safe the soldiers called it Disneyland, the place was so safe, they had a USO show there and she took Chelsea on a walking tour at Camp Alicia which was located on the DMZ between the Bosnians and the Bosnian Serbs. A WALKING TOUR!

Let me help you out with Camp Bedrock too. Camp Bedrock is on a HILL with a commanding overview of the valley.

Camp Bedrock is located in the Tuzla Valley on a hill with a commanding view.... The lack of natural shade is tempered by the wonderful view of the Tuzla Valley... History buffs may be reminded of the Zealot fortress of Masada when looking at Bedrock’s defensibility.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/bosnia.htm

Where were these snipers? Circling around in helicopters?



Here are the videos for anyone who hasn't seen them:

Hillary in Tuzla: The Tale of Bosnian Sniper Fire (TRAILER)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It6JN7ALF7Y

Hillary Clinton Lies About Her Bosnia Trip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOsGo_HWP-c

Meredith Vieira Interviews Hillary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddgom0QWvLs

Here's the picture

Reporter: There have been different accounts of your trip to Bosnia, and I was wondering if you could clarify. You recall ducking under sniper fire but Sinbad, in his account, who was on the trip, he says the most dangerous part was remembering where he was going to eat next.

Hillary: Sinbad's a comedian... He's a comedian.

Reporter: So do you actually recall fleeing gunfire?

Hillary: When we were flying into Bosnia we had to uh, part of the reason we were in the C-17 is because part of it is armored. I was moved up into the cockpit. Everyone else was told to sit on their bullet proof vests. We came in in an evasive maneuver. Those of you who have been on a C-17 or C-130 know that one of their great characteristics is that they can take off very quickly and they can maneuver agilely to avoid incoming fire. There was no greeting ceremony and we were basically told to run to our cars. Now that is what happened.”

Let's be clear. There was ONE C-17 landing into Bosnia. The only place that had a landing strip large enough to land was Tuzla so that invalidates any CYA lie that there were multiple C-17 landings. There were two short 15 minute trips to Camp Alicia and Camp Bedrock, per her schedule, but they were by helicopter and there were no greeting ceremonies scheduled at those camps. THE only greeting ceremony scheduled was at Tuzla, immediately upon landing and getting off the C17 so it's clear where the lie is. There's NO wiggle room on this one.

LIE

Reporter: So do you actually recall fleeing gunfire?

Hillary: When we were flying into Bosnia we had to uh, part of the reason we were in the C-17 is because part of it is armored. I was moved up into the cockpit. Everyone else was told to sit on their bullet proof vests. We came in in an evasive maneuver.

Uh huh.

FACT

AP reported that on the plane into Bosnia from Germany: "Mrs. Clinton chatted with journalists and crewmen during the 90-minute flight, wandering around the spacious plane in a black pantsuit — a contrast to the blue jeans and other road-ready clothes worn by most everybody else on the plane.

"The first lady spent quite a bit of time in the cockpit, with pilot Cheryl Beineke, one of just four female C-17 pilots in the U.S. Air Force."

http://www.kansascity.com/445/story/535119.html

"Moved into the cockpit" because the situation was so dangerous. :rofl: We can stick a fork in that one.

Here are two articles from the time.

...

According to the first lady’s personal schedule detailing the trip, just two of the more than 11,000 official pages of personal
schedules released today, this is what the day looked like:

Clinton landed at Tuzla Air Base at 8:45 a.m. on March 25, 1996. She was greeted by Bosnian officials and a seven-year-old
Bosnian girl whose name was redacted, and a 7th grade class. The girl read Clinton a poem. Clinton and her aides had a 10-minute
meeting with acting Bosnia President Ejup Ganic and his aides. There was an hour-long “notables roundtable” moderated by then-
Ambassador John Menzies followed by a 30-minute closed-door meeting with the heads of unnamed non-governmental
organizations, and a 30-minute closed door meeting with military officials.

The first lady also toured Camp Alicia, ate lunch with the troops, toured Camp Bedrock, attended the USO show where the
aforementioned Sinbad and musician Sheryl Crow (misspelled “Crowe” in the schedule) performed, followed by an hour visit at the
general’s house before it was wheel’s up at 5:45 p.m. and Clinton was on her way to Italy. The schedule doesn’t indicate Sinbad
was with Clinton at any of the meetings or events outside of the USO performance. There is no mention of security threats.

...

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/03/19/clintons-schedule-doesnt-settle-sinbad-dispute/?mod=googlenews_wsj

Response by G.I.'s Mixed As Hillary Clinton Visits

By MIKE O'CONNOR
Published: March 26, 1996

Hillary Rodham Clinton charmed American troops at a U.S.O. show here, but it didn't hurt that the singer Sheryl Crow and the
comedian Sinbad were also on the stage.

In her appearance at Tuzla Air Base, the First Lady told a couple of thousand of the 19,300 Americans serving in Bosnia that they
were using military power to advance United States interests and values. She said they were part of "the kind of peacekeeping
mission every American should be proud of and support."

...

At another camp, named Alicia, from where 600 soldiers in the First Squadron, Fourth Cavalry patrol the zone of separation between
the Bosnian Government and Bosnian Serb armies, many soldiers crowded in to see Mrs. Clinton and her daughter, Chelsea.

When they walked through the camp, there was an almost constant clicking and whirring as soldiers took photographs.

...

Another soldier said he thought that it was all right for Mrs. Clinton to visit, but "everyone really wants to see Sheryl Crow and
Sinbad."

Mrs. Clinton's message that American interests and moral values are at stake in Bosnia is not universally accepted among the
people she came to thank.

Some soldiers, especially those living in the worst conditions or those whose duties do not allow them to see many of the Bosnians
who benefit from their efforts, say they do not fully understand the objective here.

"I joined the Army to defend my country," said Sgt. Michael Tucker, one of the friends of Sergeant Kennedy. "There's no one
threatening America here, and we don't have a fight here."

...

Asked what he would like to tell Mrs. Clinton about his assignment, Specialist Ingersoll, of Williston, N.D., said, "I wouldn't talk to her, because I'd probably say something rude."

"Unless she can get us sent back home, there's not much she can do for us," he said, wiping rain from his face. "When she leaves,
she'll go back to her family, maybe have a drink, and relax. We can't do any of that."

Specialist Johnavan agreed: "That's right. She'll be there and we'll be here."

...

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0DE3D61139F935A15750C0A960958260

The soldiers who were there are having a field day with this whopper!

...

Ever since Barack Obama suggested Hillary Clinton's eight years as first lady were a glorified tea party a few days back, she's
looked for an opening to strike back.

On Saturday night in Dubuque she pounced, arguing she risked her life on White House missions in the 1990s, including a hair-
raising flight into Bosnia that ended in a "corkscrew" landing and a sprint off the tarmac to dodge snipers. ...

It turns out that Clinton wasn't quite flying solo into harm's way that day.

She was, in fact, leading a goodwill entourage that included baggy-pants funnyman Sinbad, singer Sheryl Crow and Clinton's
daughter, Chelsea, then 15, according to an account of the March 1995 trip in her autobiography "Living History."

I noticed a couple of things right off the bat. First, she has the year wrong. I was an MP in the Army during that time and
happened to be assigned to 2nd Platoon, 501st MP CO which supported the 1st Armored Division in Baumholder, Germany. Her trip
couldn't have taken place in March, 1995 because we didn't go into Bosnia until December 1995. The
Dayton Peace Accords opened up the door for us to go in. Then
President Clinton came to Baumholder in December to deliver his message that he was sending us in and that we were to lose Christmas, which
is exactly what we did.

Madam Clinton and her group actually came to Baumholder on their way down range and it was in March of 1996.

Regarding her claim of "dodging sniper fire", the airbase she landed at was Eagle Base located in Tuzla Bosnia. At the time it was
the most fortified compound in the country. She flew onto the airbase in a C-17 and snipers where the least of her, or anyone elses
problems. She even took the time to give a speech (presumably after she dodged the snipers)

This transcript is from PBS and is a discusion panel debating her
image, and whether the trip helped it any. There was a clip shown on the show and here remarks are excerpted below (again, notice
the date)


ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton got a break last week from the slings and arrows of
Whitewater and other misfortunes. She took a nine-day trip to Germany, Bosnia- Herzegovina, Italy, Turkey, and Greece with her
16-year-old daughter, Chelsea. After touring remote outposts in Bosnia, the First Lady thanked cheering U.S. soldiers in Tuzla for
providing a good example to the Bosnians.

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON: There is no better example in the world of what a multiethnic, multiracial, multicultural team means
in the United States military. You look around at the men and women in this room, you're letting people who have hated each other,
who have killed each other know there is another way. Look to America. And that's what I thank you for. (cheers and applause)

The cheering soldiers, by the way, were ordered to be there.

http://www.mangledcat.com/archives/000511.html

And to top it all off? It's all confirmed in the newly released "First Lady Schedules" she didn't want released. The trip went without a hitch and stayed on schedule the entire time. Here's the schedule for that trip.

[bigtree]

248. You spammed your post here? How pathetic, with countless of similar threads out there.

What a ridiculously constructed fraud, just to dismiss the obvious dangers that the First Lady of the United States faced abroad while visiting the forward areas of a combat zone. How sad for you that you are obsessed with this line of attack.

[Catherina]

249. Spammed? No. I Xeroxed it for you.

Your candidate is fabricating a resume to get a job she's not qualified for. It's not going to fly.

[Taxmyth]

253. tough to argue with Freepers

But it just goes to show we know everything there is to know about Senator Clinton including her experience and willingness to go anywhere in the world. What was Barry doing when this trip was made?

[mkultra]

259. congrats

You made the list.

[tabasco]

261. You don't know what the hell you're talking about.

I was in the infantry for 12 years, pal, and Hillie never got near the "forward areas of a combat zone."

Your pic with the soldiers with their rifles slung on their back, standing around, means that is on a base somewhere with NO DANGER. If there was even a slight chance of sniper fire, those soldiers would be behind cover.

Just stop embarrassing your self with your ignorance.

[NM Independent]

272. Yeah, one of you call this guy a freeper...fracking idiots...

Check the rules. Throwing around "freeper" is a quick way to get ts'd. You've been here long enough, it seems, and I've been here lurking long enough to know that's how it is. I'd STFU if I were you with this freeper BS.

[Catherina]

276. The only other time the word freeper was used in this thread

besides your post, is in a post by one of your Hillary buddies calling me a freeper in post 253, just like he did in my thread about Hillary's Cinematic Fantasy. Your accusation is scurrilous and the projection is alarming.

[NM Independent]

285. No no no!

You misunderstood me. I was defending you and tabasco. I am NO Hillary buddy, trust me.

[Catherina]

289. So sorry! It's going to take me a little while

to figure out the who's who here. I'm so sorry. Thanks.

:beer: Have a latte on me!

[F.Gordon]

273. I pretty much dismissed this entire "story"

Thanks for posting this bigtree. The woman has been to Iraq, Afghanistan..... but this "story" somehow has significance?
:shrug:

Obama blasts the web with a photo that I'm not even certain was taken in Bosnia. Then ya' got Sinbad aka the Dennis Miller wannabee, out shillin' for Obama.

Has anyone interviewed the Pilot? Also; I don't see Dennis Sinbad Miller on the official Whitehouse release. Was he on the same plane?

The plane was escorted by Fighter Jets, she was kept in the armored cockpit, the pilot did a Corkscrew Landing... it wasn't maybe as scary as landing at the Cedar Rapids airport in a snow storm.... but it was definitely not like Dennis Sinbad Miller makes light of it.

It's a non-story, but I guess it gives the Obama supporters something to masturbate over for awhile.
:eyes:

[krkaufman]

274. Except Hillary is tying her head-down run for the cars under sniper fire ...

... with her C-17 arrival, not with any helicopter trips.

[bluedawg12]

278. This is a combat zone for real.

This is a dilliusional zone.

[bluedawg12]

279. Obama in a combat zone

combating nicotine while playing cowboy.

[tabasco]

286. Is this a combat zone too?

Nope, this is on a secure post in the USA. Hillary was never in a combat zone and to say she was detracts from the sacrifice of our soldiers who ARE in a combat zone, FOR REAL, thanks to cowards like Clinton and Kerry. (Kerry showed enormous physical courage in Vietnam but showed moral cowardice in his vote on the IWR, an act he regrets and has said so publicly).

[rocktivity]

287. Clinton ‘Misspoke’ About Bosnia Trip, Campaign Says

(March 23)...(H)er account has been challenged, first by Sinbad, the comedian, who traveled with her, and then by news organizations, most notably the Washington Post...

Asked today to square her recent descriptions with these accounts, Howard Wolfson, her spokesman, referred to several contemporaneous news accounts that described the region as hostile. He then added: “It is possible in the most recent instance in which she discussed this that she misspoke in regard to the exit from the plane, but there is no question if you look at contemporaneous accounts that she was going to a potential combat zone, that she was on the front lines.”
(link)

So it's finally over. Can we all be friends again?

:toast:
rocknation

[bigtree]

298. she had to come back on that one. It eclipsed even her own previous account

Still, it was an historic mission, acknowledged at the time as the the first of its kind since Eleanor Roosevelt because of the risk involved. Just sayin . . . I think it's not unusual to jumble the memories together after 12 years, but, ohtrs, obviously disagree. I think 'misspoke' covers it well. Time to move on.

[Catherina]

288. Hillary's Campaign says "Clinton ‘Misspoke’ About Bosnia Trip".

Clinton ‘Misspoke’ About Bosnia Trip, Campaign Says
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/24/clinton-misspoke-about-bosnia-trip-campaign-says

The Clinton campaign says Senator Hillary Clinton may have “misspoke” recently when she said she had to evade sniper fire when she was visiting Bosnia in 1996 as first lady.

She has been using the episode as an example of her foreign policy bona fides.

...

Asked today to square her recent descriptions with these accounts, Howard Wolfson, her spokesman, referred to several contemporaneous news accounts that described the region as hostile. He then added: “It is possible in the most recent instance in which she discussed this that she misspoke in regard to the exit from the plane, but there is no question if you look at contemporaneous accounts that she was going to a potential combat zone, that she was on the front lines.”

Asked at a later point in the call to clarify his comment, Mr. Wolfson said that news accounts at the time made clear that the area in which she was landing was “a potential combat zone and was hazardous.”

[AngryAmish]

290. She just likes to make shit up

[Catherina]

293. JPZenger just posted a great comment from Huffpo. It's hilarious!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5234149&mesg_id=5234760

Here's a great comment from the Huffingtonpost website from samaraijack:

I especially like the part when the bullets were richoteing off the tarmac, and the secret service had to grab Mrs. Clinton to throw her into the armored vehicle.

But, seeing a small child, alone on the runway, Hillary pushed the agent aside yelling "I've got to get the baby!!" She vaulted three parked Humvees, sliding on the asphalt just in time. As mortar and tank rounds smashed into the ground arond them, Hillary shielded the helpless child in her arms.

She rolled 50 yards to a nearby hangar. Then, with all her might, she stood up, sidekicked the locked hangar door off its hinges. As a small backpack nuclear device was detonated from a nearby ravine, Hillary fabricated a makeshift shelter from airplane wing panels she observed leaning against a hangar wall.

After the shock waves and heat dissipated, Hillary, still cradling the now crying infant, walked through the radioactive fallout to a nearby RedCross helicopter. Afterwards, Hillary commented "It was the least I could do as a First Lady of the United States of America".

"Now, don't we have some wounded soldiers to visit?" She refused first aid, and, still glowing from radiation, strode into a waiting bulletproof limo.

[juajen]

297. How many times has Hillary Clinton been to Iraq?

I know several times, and everybody knows how dangerous that is. You can quit with your horrible disrespect for a valued member of our Congress and a former First Lady of the United States. You people are despicable and do Obama only harm.

[Alexander]

294. Secret Service doesn't let First Ladies enter dangerous areas. She lied. Get over it!

[Umbram]

299. Her campaign admits she did not state the truth. The media was with her on the trip, etc.

Isn't it time to give up on spinning this?

[InsultComicDog]

301. Nice try and by the way

Lying about one's combat experience has been the downfall of many candidates.