Which of these quotes best describe Pastor Wright's influence on Obama?

[MethuenProgressive]

Poll question: Which of these quotes best describe Pastor Wright's influence on Obama?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/religion/chi-070121-relig_wright,1,271630.story
Chicago Tribune: ""In Wright he had found both a spiritual mentor and a role model."
"Wright helps keep his priorities straight and his moral compass calibrated."

[XemaSab]

1. Have you ever been a member of a congregation?

If so, would you say that your pastor spoke for you 100% of the time? :shrug:

[MethuenProgressive]

5. Obama says Wright helps keep his priorities straight and his moral compass calibrated.

Quoting the Chicago Tribune. See link.

[aquarius dawning]

33. This does not look good for Barack Obama.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

48. Barack is finished

[oviedodem]

52. Your right BUT so is yours!

[Bake]

47. Yes I have.

And if my pastor ever said anything like what Wright said, I'd be out of my seat and visibly, vocally out the door before he finished his sentence. My letter of resignation would follow the same day.

Obama could have done that, and defused this ticking time bomb long ago. But he didn't. He had to know this stuff was out there when he STARTED his run for the White House. But he did nothing about it. Now he says Wright is like his "crazy uncle in the attic." That's not going to BEGIN to fix this problem. I'm not sure it can be fixed.

Bake

[BlackVelvet04]

53. I left two churches....

one for racist comments and one for homophobic comments. Some things are worth taking a stand for. This isn't about agreeing 100% of the time it's about agreeing or disagreeing with basic decency. Not only is the comment God Damn America completely Un-American and offensive it is completely, totally unacceptable from a Christian.

and as a side note just how do you think most Christians are going to feel about Wright saying Jesus was a Black man? The whole premise of the messiah was that he was JEWISH.

[soleft]

2. where's none of the above?

[MethuenProgressive]

6. Obama based "The Audacity of Hope." on Wright's sermon "Audacity to Hope,"

According to the Chicago Tribune. See link.
---
Later he would base his 2004 keynote speech to the Democratic National Convention on a Wright sermon called "Audacity to Hope," --also the inspiration for Obama's second memoir, "The Audacity of Hope."
---

[MethuenProgressive]

56. ...

(I learned this from a DUbama)

[Window]

18. LOL! That's what I was looking for, None of the Above.

[MethuenProgressive]

19. We'll just add two "none of the aboves" to the poll later on, Window.

Out of fairness, y'know.

[Window]

22. You are too kind.

[baldguy]

3. Without looking it up: tell me the name of Clinton's pastor.

Or McCain's.

[rucky]

8. ...

:yourock:

[MethuenProgressive]

16. You have an interesting idea about what exactly "rocks", rucky.

Just sayin'

[rucky]

24. My smiley arsenal is limited to DU offerings.

and there aren't any involving butt-cracks!

[Scurrilous]

30. LOL

:rofl:

[MethuenProgressive]

10. " the senator does check with his pastor before making any bold political moves."

According to the Chicago Tribune. See link.

[DURHAM D]

11. Hillary belongs to a church - the Methodist church.

They have a strong central administration that moves ministers around all of the time. In other words - she belongs to a particular denomination (Methodist) and the emphasis is not on the ministers. Unlike other faiths where the minister is the "church".

Hillary remains close to her childhood minister from when she first joined the church at 11 or 12 in Chicago - I think his name is Jones. He is not her "minister" however, he is her friend.

[amandabeech]

55. I was raised United Methodist.

I found that the pastor had a lot to do with the tenor of the particular congregation. The pastor always writes his or her own sermons, and chooses and interprets biblical passages. I saw three pastors come and go, and the place was different under each of them.

The number of congregants in the pews also depends on the pastor. My mom still goes to that particular congregation, and she's seen everything from a church with standing room only (under a female pastor) to half the congregation defecting to a nearby United Methodist congregation.

I have also seen the bishop pull a kooky pastor and eventually defrock him.

Perhaps your experience differs, but to me, the individual pastor, while not the church, makes a huge difference in an individual congregation.

[earthlover]

20. Clinton has a 15 year membership in The Fellowship, a secretive organization with many

hyper conservative members, including a former head of the militant anti-abortion group Operation Rescue.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html

People in glass cathedrals shouldn't throw stones

[DemBones DemBones]

27. Not according to the article. For starters,

Rev. Schenk, formerly of Operation Rescue is simply quoted in the article speaking about Doug Coe of The Fellowship, whom he admires. He's not in the group.

HRC belongs to two prayer groups out of many that are coordinated by someone from The Fellowship. There are some Democrats in the groups and the fact that more Democrats aren't in prayer groups has a correlation to why the GOP is more successful politically. Surveys show again and again that a majority of Americans believe in God, and most are
Christians, and want to vote for Christians.

More voters will relate favorably to HRC's spiritual life than to Obama's.

Obama's pastor doing pelvic thrusts during a sermon while saying "Bill did to us what Monica Lewinsky did to him" was really off the wall, and him saying "God damn America" was not something most Americans have ever heard in church, either.

What's Christian about Obama's church? What's Christian about Obama? People will be asking.

[MethuenProgressive]

38. "What's Christian about Obama's church?" Gandhi's comment comes to mind...

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

[BlackVelvet04]

54. Pretty immaterial at this time.....

do let us know when you find out, though.

[MNDemNY]

4. I'll use Obama's own words...."spiritual adviser of twenty years"

[MethuenProgressive]

17. If only it was *only* spiritual.

"the senator does check with his pastor before making any bold political moves."

[Kokonoe]

7. What brother are you talking about

Oliver or Wilber?

[MethuenProgressive]

9. The anti-Semitic Brother,

Google:

Obama Criticizes His Church's Honoring of 'Anti-Semitic' Farrakhan ...Jan 17, 2008 ... Jeremiah Wright. Last year Wright, along with the church's magazine ... "We welcome Barack Obama's condemnation of the anti-Semitic rhetoric ...
www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=/Politics/archive/200801/POL20080117a.html -

[GoldieAZ49]

12. where is the all of the above option?

[MethuenProgressive]

13. "all of the above" option added on edit!

I knew I forgot something! :hi:

[GoldieAZ49]

14. Thank you

regret having to choose that one

[MethuenProgressive]

15. and "all of the above" surges (sadly) into the lead...

Real quotes, from the Chicago Tribune...

[GoldieAZ49]

21. Read them

and kick this

[Blue-Jay]

23. "Former pastor"?

Just a guess...

[GoldieAZ49]

25. Wright retires in May as pastor of the church, not as Obama's spiritual advisor

I bet if Obama doesn't win he doesn't retire


friggin snake oil salesmen

[Straight Shooter]

26. You didn't include "father figure."

But that's my own idea of what's going on, there.

[DemBones DemBones]

31. Sounds right. His father just abandoned him and his mother,

who was wife #2, went off to Harvard, married another white American woman in NY,
took her back to Kenya, where she was surprised to find wife #1 waiting. Obama's
half-brother, who had the same father and another white mother, does not use the
name Obama or an African or Muslim name. He and Obama met once and Obama was
disappointed that his half-brother wasn't "into" African culture, saying it was only half
his heritage and that their father, who by this time had been killed in an auto accident.
was a drunk and a womanizer, not worth talking about.

It's sad that he was abandoned by his father but he had his American grandparents,
who moved to Hawaii after he was born, so he always had a man in his life who never abandoned him. He's dead now but his American grandmother is still living. The campaign "won't make her available," though. Maybe she's a bit senile but she couldn't do him any more harm than his mentor has. I don't understand why an intelligent man didn't know
he needed to find another church about five years ago. :shrug: He wants to lose?

[ej510]

34. His white grandmother is very ill.

So he does not want the media harrasing her.

[DemVet]

39. Nor should they. n/t

[DemBones DemBones]

32. Delete -- DU always dupes my posts around this time.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MethuenProgressive]

36. self delete

thanks, mods! :hi:

[MadBadger]

29. Can you say something stupid again to land your ass back on probation?

[MethuenProgressive]

40. Thanks for the kick!

[mythyc]

35. beware 5 fallacies in one little poll: but be strong! Reason can see the true hero through....

the OP intends neither dialogue nor objectivity here. not trying to reason; rather trying to set up people to fall into accusing hands. this poll is a conspicuous attempt at both political and character entrapment. not just the candidate's character, but your's o reader.

Don't take my word for it. DUers, review the following fallacies and tell me they don't ALL apply to this thread. I've provided links to a basic site on logic, though I encourage you to delve more deeply into these. they will help defend you against an "opponent" who's trying to set you up for defeat rather than engage you in a responsible, conscientious way:

the first phases are not full-blown fallacies yet, but what logicians call "logical Boobytraps" aka "preemptive strikes" set up where the "debater" will only allow his previously-set-up negative conclusions to result from your answer:

1) the loaded gun/words: "The fallacy is committed either when an arguer attempts to use loaded words in place of an argument, or when an arguee makes an evaluation based on the colorful language in which an argument is clothed, rather than on the merits of the argument itself."

remember how this got to you?: 'we don't want the loaded gun to come in the form of a mushroom cloud'

beware the sirens, weary traveler. their song is enticing but will dash you against the jagged crags of bigotry and spite over the true harmony of the sound mind's eye.

2) Poisoning the Well: "To poison the well is to commit a preemptive ad hominem strike against an argumentative opponent. As with regular ad hominems, the well may be poisoned in either an abusive or circumstantial way..... Anyone bold enough to enter a debate which begins with a well-poisoning either steps into an insult, or an attack upon one's personal integrity. As with standard ad hominems, the debate is likely to cease to be about its nominal topic and become a debate about the arguer. However, what sets Poisoning the Well apart from the standard Ad Hominem is the fact that the poisoning is done before the opponent has a chance to make a case."

don't drink the waters young one-- your thirst will be quenched by taking the high road to the firmament of reason.

but beware, more traps await you:

...

but only now the tribulations do begin to beset you. square circles will distract the peer of sound reason unless you reflect on the true light of authentic understanding. watch out for forms drawn in words! first you must confront and defeat:

3) the straw man: "Imagine a fight in which one of the combatants sets up a man of straw, attacks it, then proclaims victory. All the while, the real opponent stands by untouched."

beware! images distract. only by looking beneath the sheen of bombast and hyperbole can you see the true form beneath the riddler's mask. if you fall prey and duel this phantom, behind you, in your blind spot, you will miss the true form standing tall and apart, not misrepresented as our trickster OP has tried to distract you,

continue on, and be vigilant, of clear and sound mind. you will need your concentration when the darts begin flying:

4) Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy: (so exquisite, we provide a full citation): "The Texas sharpshooter is a fabled marksman who fires his gun randomly at the side of a barn, then paints a bullseye around the spot where the most bullet holes cluster.... This fallacy occurs when someone jumps to the conclusion that a cluster in some data must be the result of a cause, usually one that it is clustered around. There are two reasons why this is fallacious: {a.} The cluster may well be the result of chance, in which case it was not caused by anything. {2.} Even if the cluster is not the result of chance, there are other possible reasons for the clustering, other than the cause chosen.... At best, the occurrence of a cluster in the data is the basis not for a causal conclusion, but for the formation of a causal hypothesis which needs to be tested. Patterns in data can be useful for forming hypotheses, but they are not themselves sufficient evidence of a causal connection. In short, correlation is not causation."

so, careful warrior, you must needs keep all your wits about to dodge the salvo of fire and brimstone screaming at you. equilibrize your mind to harmonize the actual tones of their screeching. To do this, you will need to use the power of recognition. Are these clusters one, or legion? Repeat to yourself: Are these clusters one or legion. Transform the interrogative into indication. Think. Reflect. Correlation, or.causation?

when you have solved this riddle continue on. Remember, my end is my beginning. you can exit this maze by reasoning your way through the loaded question(aire) of the loaded words you confronted as you first began this journey:

5) The Loaded Question: in the guise of a loaded questionaire: "A question with a false, disputed, or question-begging presupposition."

going further: "A 'loaded question', like a loaded gun, is a dangerous thing. A loaded question is a question with a false or questionable presupposition, and it is "loaded" with that presumption. The question "Have you stopped beating your wife?" presupposes that you have beaten your wife prior to its asking, as well as that you have a wife. If you are unmarried, or have never beaten your wife, then the question is loaded. Since this example is a yes/no question, there are only the following two direct answers: {1.} "Yes, I have stopped beating my wife", which entails "I was beating my wife." {2.} "No, I haven't stopped beating my wife", which entails "I am still beating my wife."

if you take the trickster's bait, and answer the above thread, you have but one reply to that first, ballistic question. Wright not simply has an influence on Obama, but is THE influence. Wright by extension = Obama. You have fallen into the trap. All of Wright's beliefs, through baiting and presupposition, have been grafted onto Obama. your mind begins to falter, and the drone of ignorance and bigotry set it.

Breathe. Relax. Stay steady. You can avoid the entire labyrinth and the minotaurs within who would devour you alive by simply not entering. The true noble warrior thinks, reasons, considers, evaluates, and most acutely and essentially of all, judges in an objective, independent, and responsible, ethical way. When wavering remember these precepts of the hero's journey, and may they guide thee well

[MethuenProgressive]

37. All are quotes from the Chicago "We Endorse Obama" Tribune story Obama was interviewed for.

He's never objected to what they printed.

[mythyc]

44. I do not object to the quotes

I point out that the way they are being sensationalistically used, twisted, manipulated, implicated, bleared to corner your opponents (not obama, but his supporters, or even the honest citizen who strolls in with a genuine interest in a citizen's right to fair and balanced dialogue) and then attack them, accuse them, distort them, humiliate them, SILENCE THEM. tsk tsk tsk, yes, we silence in a democracy don't we. i do not do this as mere opinion or interjection, but as a logical exercise. let the readers decide themselves whether to so also exercise. I address them, not the OP, who in making no genuine attempt to address me, to give me an authentic arena in which to objectively reply, has silenced all voices but those of response.

this questionnaire is not objective. this questionnaire is propaganda. this OP has a prior agenda that blares through the format of the questions, of the stark severe limits of options in answering them, of the disappointing bigotry lying in the casuistry of presuppositions behind it. i heard dan savage on the radio yesterday asking, no screaming and accusing as if he were the grand inquisitor, judge jury executioner all rolled up in one, "asking" the same exact questions yesterday as if they had no possible other answer besides a triumphant, self-willed, superior, bigoted smear. expected such from faux fair and balanced ilk, but not from "progressives" within the democratic underground, albeit the depths to which this forum has violated its its eponymous dictum and domain. no response to one prevaricated, no interest in dialogue with a blaring attempt to exert the superiority of one's own monologue. i do not address the OP of this thread, but those whom he attempts to draw into his malicious lair.

-----------------------

SAKE OF ARGUMENT / ONE LAST CHANCE: OP, name one, just well-reasoned, logical response acceptable and warranted as a conclusion to the latent, presupposed premises of this questionnaire. Just one that doesn't result in the inevitable demeaning of either the candidate or his supporter. we await your gracious reply.

[MethuenProgressive]

45. To answer your "question":

OP, name one, just well-reasoned, logical response acceptable and warranted as a conclusion to the latent, presupposed premises of this questionnaire. Just one that doesn't result in the inevitable demeaning of either the candidate or his supporter.

42.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GoldieAZ49]

42. So you don't believe Obama?

He said Wright was his spiritual advisor in is book on Audacity

So his claims in his book are false too?

[Straight Shooter]

43. Did you read the article? My guess would be "no."

If it's the same Chic. Tribune article I read, those are direct quoted references re Obama's relationship with Wright.

You puke too easily.

[MethuenProgressive]

46. The link to the Chicago Tribune story Obama participated in is in the OP.

Odd that even though the Chicago "We Endorse Obama For President" Tribune is identified as the source in the OP, the DUbama claims it's from "Free Republic."
Proof that DUbamas seldom read before over-reacting.

[MethuenProgressive]

49. 61% "all of the above"

Glad I added that option.

[anonymous171]

50. If all this true why hasn't Obama expounded on his belief that the government created AIDS?

[MethuenProgressive]

51. He's waiting for the Inaugural Address

'government created aids'?? :wtf:

[MethuenProgressive]

62. ...

[ElsewheresDaughter]

57. He was prob waiting for Michelle to blurt it out for him.

[MethuenProgressive]

58. 65% for "all of the above"

DU is snapping out of it!

[jackson_dem]

59. Can I vote "present"?

[stevenleser]

60. None of the above

[MethuenProgressive]

61. "The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color."

None? Sure about that?

[oasis]

63. America cannot survive with a Rev. Wright clone as its president. (eom)

[galactical]

64. You forgot something....

Political Liability.