This Gives Her Away >>> There is nothing to base that on. *As far as I know.*

[Stephanie]

She might have gotten away with it tonight but she could not resist tossing in this caveat. "As far as I know." Wink wink nudge nudge. As far as I know. But I've been fooled before. As far as I know. Damnit I'll go nuclear if I have to. As far as I know.

She might explain away "I take him at his word" because the quote is inexact - that's actually the interviewer's phrasing. Hers was "I take him on the basis of what he says."

But she cannot wriggle out of this. She deliberately allowed that there was the possiblity of doubt. She deliberately left the door open. She did not reject or denounce the falsehoods.

Every scurrilous attack she's made has come back to bite her. This one I think will do her in.

You said that you take Senator Obama at his word that he's not a Muslim. You don't believe that he's a Muslim, or implying, right?

No, no, why would I? There is nothing to base that on. As far as I know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHFREDHB-nQ

[Name removed]

1. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Horse with no Name]

2. I love ya Steph

But THIS is faux outrage.
It is NOT her place to set the record straight about ANYTHING that has to do with obama.
She answered the question truthfully. You all are reading wayyy too much into mere words.

[Stephanie]

4. Yes because millions of dollars worth of consultants later, she just says whatever comes to mind

She wouldn't possibly advance a campaign message in a prime time interview..

[JimGinPA]

5. Bullshit - Her Intention Was To Foster Doubt...

Absolutely despicable.

[Horse with no Name]

7. Good God the wahhmbulance is running in overdrive tonight

WAHHHHHHHHHH!!!

[Stephanie]

13. Yes, because the fact that the focus group member who WANTED to vote Obama - but had some doubts

Doubts about whether he was a MUSLIM and whether he KNEW THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE - that guy was just an anomaly. There was no orchestrated effort to get that guy to believe anything false. Was there?

[papau]

26. Good grief - many feel Obama is a con artist after his corporate tax reduction regulation removal

my programs won't cost money because I don't see them passing they're just campaign talk revelations of the last two weeks.

Rezko trial starts next week - and all Hillary is saying is that she takes Obama at his word, but notes she has no independent information.

A bit like Obama saying that the independent info provided Congress in 02, the president that said he did not need any congressional OK for Iraq war, the getting of a promise of a UN inspector try via passing the IWR, all does not matter because in the end there was a war - heck - god forbid Hillary's speech in 02 be recalled - Obama does not give her "the benefit of the doubt" that she gives him

but then she is a Christian, despite not having that southern black preacher cadence that Obama mocks by using to such effect with applause lines (read as in "amen" line) every 2 minutes.

[Stephanie]

27. "despite not having that southern black preacher cadence"

The list of Hillary's excuses keeps getting more and more bizarre.

[CatnHat]

46. Hillary

is not responsible for whatever Obama is or isn't. Why should it bother the Obama crowd anyway, aren't you all about "unity". This thread is more than stupid, and in my opinion, more crap from the Obama people stirring up shit. Get over it, embrace Obama whatever he is--isn't that what your campaign is about???? Pathetic.

[tblue]

3. Excuse my ignorance. I voted for & support Obama, but what exactly was so unforgivable about this?

I watched the YouTube clip but I did not see the entire interview. But, holy cow, I obviously missed something that many of the rest of you saw. WTH did I miss? With all due respect, it didn't seem like that big a deal to me.

[sandnsea]

8. Are you confused about Obama's religion?

:shrug: Hillary is, as far as I know.

[MonkeyFunk]

47. How so?

Kroft: You don't believe that Senator Obama is a Muslim?
Clinton: Of course not. I mean... there is no basis for that. I take him on the basis of what he says. And there isn't any reason to doubt that.
Kroft: You said you take Senator Obama at his word that he's not a Muslim...
Clinton: Right...
Kroft: ...you don't believe that he's a Muslim
Clinton: No! Why would I? There's nothing to base that on, as far as I know.


She said many times that she doesn't believe he's a Muslim. The outrage over this is yet another example of people losing their fool minds over nothing.

[intaglio]

48. Monkey,

Please, think about it if you change it to the way I am put it below, you would be outraged

My apologies for using the B word in connection to Sen. Clinton, it is for illustrative purposes only. Using that word is normally indefensible

Kroft: You don't believe that Senator Clinton is a Bitch?
Obama: Of course not. I mean... there is no basis for that. I take her on the basis of what she says. And there isn't any reason to doubt that.
Kroft: You said you take Senator Clinton at her word that she's not a Bitch...
Obama: Right...
Kroft: ...you don't believe that she's a Bitch
Obama: No! Why would I? There's nothing to base that on, as far as I know.

It is a fine answer up to the "... as far as I know," although she should have done better to take a stand and asked for a bigoted question to be taken back.

[MonkeyFunk]

49. So you think calling someone a bitch

is equivalent to asking if they're Muslim?

I don't.

Also, being a bitch isn't a private belief, like one's religion.

The fact is, she denied multiple times that she believes he's a Muslim. It's not her job to campaign for Obama, and fight the talking points used against him.

[intaglio]

51. No I do not - as you are well aware

but in this particular instance it the use of "Muslim" and "Bitch" can be compared because "Muslim" is being used as an slur to incite hatred. I also agree that her answer was fine until she used that last phrase. That last phrase makes the rest of her answer "weasel words"

on edit let's use the word "Nazi" instead. Again this is not a word I would normally use but the point has to be made that the "...as far as I know" made her whole answer a slur

Kroft: You don't believe that Senator Clinton is a Nazi
Obama: Of course not. I mean... there is no basis for that. I take her on the basis of what she says. And there isn't any reason to doubt that.
Kroft: You said you take Senator Clinton at her word that she's not a Nazi...
Obama: Right...
Kroft: ...you don't believe that she's a Nazi
Obama: No! Why would I? There's nothing to base that on, as far as I know.

[MonkeyFunk]

52. Again

people aren't private nazis.

He asked her about his religious beliefs - she answered correctly. As far as she knows, he's a christian.

[Horse with no Name]

9. That's because there is nothing there TO miss

but obama is not winning the polls in OH and TX right now so obamatrons.must.muster.faux.outrage.to.fire.up.the.base.
It's the single silliest "controversy" I have EVER read on this website.
For fucks sake one minion said she was shaking and in tears over it.:wtf:

[lapfog_1]

16. Think of someone talking about you at a party

and they say "Well, I think she is not a bad parent, AS FAR AS I KNOW"...

Now this person is someone that you work with and have known for a number of years, not only that, but you and she are two out of 50 people that you work with daily who hold the same values...

Also, you are pretty sure that she knows that you ARE a good parent.

Would you be OK with that statement?

[Horse with no Name]

20. This is ridiculous on its face

I have used the term "as far as I know" many times to qualify myself and NEVER once meant it as a derogatory slam.

[Stephanie]

21. It's a QUALIFIER - you just said it yourself.

She should have CATEGORICALLY rejected the falsehoods.

[Horse with no Name]

29. It isn't her place to do damage control on HIS campaign

It's GOTCHA politics at its best and the MSM who annoited the two current candidates are going to sit and watch them dance now.
Some of us KNEW this would happen and tried to warn you.
Now we'll just sit back for the inevitable show.
I have no horse in this race...but NEITHER candidate is better (or worse) than the other.
Obama hasn't defended Hillary against the lies and smears against her either.
But you know what?
THAT isn't HIS job either.

[lapfog_1]

42. You might, if you truly DON'T know.

but in this case, YOU DO KNOW, and you still put the qualifier on it. And you do so publically... WHY? Because you want to sow the seeds of doubt. This isn't about carrying Obamas water for him, it's about answering a question HONESTLY.

Hillary is damn sure aware that many people think he is Muslim because of his race, his parentage, and, mostly, his name. And she knows that some knuckle draggers won't look any farther than this. So by leaving the qualifier in there, she is appealing to them to vote for her instead.

And again, if that's the way we want our candidates to win... well, that makes me sad. That one of our candidates would stoop this low (well, after reviewing her other tactics, I guess it isn't all that much lower than before)...

[loveangelc]

18. I agree. Some of you are making a bigger deal of this than need be imo.

[bigbrother05]

22. Hillary did it to see if she can get Obama riled

it ain't gonna happen. She shot her self in the foot mouth again

[John Q. Citizen]

6. It was her turning the knife. Kinda sleazy, kinda low.

[Stephanie]

10. In the debate, she got away with the first insinuation.

The audience cheered when she said something like, people should use their own words. But then, encouraged, she went too far and sunk herself with the Xerox line. She's done it again here. She just couldn't resist twisting the knife, as you said.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

11. Much ado about nothing, IMHO.

[ExtraGriz]

12. 'They like you well enough.' n/t

[polichick]

55. I thought it was "You're likable enough" - and meant to be kind. nt

[Horse with no Name]

65. it was a snide, nasty remark. And it was meant to be. n/t

[polichick]

68. That's your opinion - many didn't see/hear it that way. nt

[HardWorkingDem]

14. My support is for Obama, but come on...this is ridiculous...

It's almost like any phrase, misstep or wording is now taken for things way out of proportion. Just like this.

[Stephanie]

15. She should have said, "There is nothing to base that on. Absolutely, unequivocally."

She should have DENOUNCED the swiftboating and SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT. Instead, she left millions of 60 Minutes viewers the impression that the case wasn't quite closed on the Obama Is A Muslim question.

[Horse with no Name]

17. Has obama stood up for Hillary ONCE in the multitude of attacks on her?

This is politics for fuck sakes.

[Stephanie]

19. This is dirty politics.

[Horse with no Name]

24. FOR THE RECORD

I have NO candidate.
Neither was my first choice and both have been tied for my last choice.
It IS dirty.
It's been dirty from the start, which is WHY I really don't care what does--or does not--slide through. obama has been just as ugly as she has.
I don't expect them to be nice to each other...the supporters on this site aren't even nice to each other.
We're all Democrats (for the most part).
I qualified my statement to you because I wanted you to know that this isn't personal to you.
Regardless that you support someone that I feel will spiral this country into a worse mess than it is already in...you support him but I am going to give my opinion. It has nothing personal to do with YOU and doesn't alter my opinion of you.
I've just been dismissed by someone I considered to be one of my favorites here because I have a different opinion. Whatever the fuck rocks folks boats.
I've passed the point of passive indifference.
I don't see ANY positive changes coming out of the presidency of ANY of the current crop of candidates. Just more of the same.
I'm not voting for mccain...but I sure as hell cannot muster outrage at ANYTHING any of them say.
They all lie.
They all obfuscate.
NONE of them are worth a shit.
But that is what we ended up with and ya know what?
IT IS NOT MY FAULT.

[Stephanie]

25. You might want to back away from the keyboard for a while.

take a break

[babylonsister]

28. You are not being honest.

You have had a hard-on for Obama for many moons. Obama has been dirty? One of the lovely things about the man is he's a gentleman. How does this 'dirty' thing apply to him?

And damn, you're upset. I'm sorry about that.

[Horse with no Name]

31. search some of my posts and you WILL find that I have been just as critical of hillary

However...I'm sure those haven't stuck out as much to someone who supports obama.
If you would look even deeper...you would see I have defended EACH of them to the lies.
In real life as well.
I'm happy you have a good opinion of him.
I don't.
You and I see completely different things when looking at him. I see another arrogant politician--not a gentleman.
I am sorry if I have offended you. Was never the motivation.
I was under the impression that I had a right to my opinion.
I guess I was wrong.

[babylonsister]

39. Oh,woe is you? You absolutely have the right to your opinion, but

no, I don't recall you EVER defending him. That is also your right. For a thinking woman, I don't understand the dislike. But have at it. That's the beauty of voting (if our votes count on Tuesday).

[donheld]

33. I've never seen you say one critical thing about Hillary but,

I've seen you over and over again berate Obama and his supporters. How are we not to conclude that Hillary is who you favor?

[Horse with no Name]

36. see that is the problem with blind support of a candidate

if I am in the same pile as YOU piling on the person YOU don't like...YOU don't notice me.
However...if I change piles...that is when you notice.
Funny how that works...

[donheld]

44. Blind support - Yea right.

[kid a]

23. actually he has.

[Horse with no Name]

32. Link please?

Because I think you are full of shit.

[babylonsister]

40. Did you watch the last debate? Or all the times Obama has said,

"I agree with Hillary?" Oye. Guess not. That also has pissed off Clinton lovers. Damned if you do...

[Horse with no Name]

41. Agreeing with Hillary on policy isn't defending the lies or smears about her

There is VERY LITTLE difference between the two candidates on policy so there obviously would be a lot of agreement between them.
But I'm not going to go any further with this.
There is no mutual respect in this conversation as you stated above.
I'll agree to disagree and move on.

[babylonsister]

43. I said I don't understand you, but I'll move on also. nt

[TheDebbieDee]

56. I think your post deserves its own thread.........

It is the job of the Obama campaign to get out and dispell the rumor that Sen. Obama is a Muslim.

I find it hard to believe that Obama supporters expect Sen. Clinton to do his campaign's job for them.

[emilyg]

38. That's his job - not hers.

[HardWorkingDem]

35. People should quit grasping onto each word like it is...

part of some sort of Machiavellian plot.

One could make the argument that HRC used the phrase she did to say, "I have all this great knowledge and with this knowledge of Obama, there is certainly nothing there that would lead any thinking person to think he is something he is not."

People need to get off the "gotcha" mentality....

[cooolandrew]

30. Lost for words with HRC now myself.

[FlyingSquirrel]

34. ****** Watch the FULL video ******

Don't just take a 23-second clip and draw your conclusions from that. Why not watch the whole thing.

http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtm ...

You might end up with the same feeling, but at least you haven't made it based on a 23-second video cut exactly where the person who entitled it "Stokes False Rumors" wanted to cut it.

The part about the Muslim "smears" starts around about 9:32 into the video.

P.S. Here's what she said AFTER the cut:

“It's just scurrilous…?” Kroft inquired.

“Look, I have been the target of so many ridiculous rumors, that I have a great deal of sympathy for anybody who gets, you know, smeared with the kind of rumors that go on all the time,” Clinton said.

----

Unfortunately 60 minutes themselves cut the video just before the infamous question so there's no way to know for sure who brought it up first. But I believe the "as far as I know" statement was intended to convey the obvious, which is: How the hell should she have inside knowledge about what someone's private religious beliefs were?

[Stephanie]

37. Why didn't she reply, "Yes, it's just scurrilous."

She deliberately deflected the question.

[Eric J in MN]

45. Because after she declared that there is nothing to base this on...

...she wanted to leave room in case the reporter was asking the question for reasons she wasn't aware of. Hence, there is nothing to base this on as far as she knows.

[shockra]

50. Wow.

After watching the video all these threads of outraged minions look even MORE ridiculous than before!

Obama was clearly implying that someone (gee, I wonder who?) had been smearing him as a Muslim in a email campaign during the primaries, and Kroft was helping him along. Then they cut to Kroft asking Hillary if she thought Barack was a Muslim -- instead of asking outright if her campaign was responsible for the smears he had been discussing with Barack. It was a sneaky series of scenes making her look responsible. THAT was the egregious part of this segment. I mean, if the weeping voter in Ohio who had a very ill wife and not enough to pay for the astronomical medical bills was going to vote for Barack even though he "heard he was a Muslim" and thought he was unpatriotic because he didn't know the Star Spangled Banner or some such, then Hillary must be really evil! And her health care plan to relieve his overwhelming burden was not nearly enough to overcome as much evil as she contained. Yes, she's obviously guilty of SOMETHING.

Cut to Barack talking about the email smears...then Hillary being asked if he was a Muslim.

Cripes.

I'm not that keen on any candidate. I've thought all along the Dem "leadership" was foolish not to impeach and assume they would still easily win the presidency based on how reprehensible the Bush administration was. Impeachment would have shaken things out and created a different dynamic (and different candidates running, no doubt). If this much energy had been focused on kicking Bush and Cheney's asses they would have rightfully been orbiting Mars about now. Instead it's viciously ripping the Dem party in half. But you could argue that's what the Dem party deserves, for not doing what needed to be done.

[Horse with no Name]

59. Your post is 100% correct

MSM has chosen our candidates...now they are going to shoot at them and watch them dance.
I'm shocked that SMART Democrats fell for it and continue to fall for it.

[GeorgeGist]

53. kinda depends on the definition of ...

'is' and 'nothing' and 'knowing'.
Hillary is a lawyer by training you know, and we are her jury. If Obama is a muslim, we must find him guilty of being afraid to admit it in a christian country.

[Apollo11]

54. Hillary did a great job dealing with this dumb question.

SHAME ON YOU, Steve Kroft, for asking Hillary about Obama's religious beliefs.

AND SHAME ON YOU, Obama supporters, for accusing Hillary of trying to gain some kind of political advantage by supposedly encouraging voters to be fearful of the possibility that Obama might be a Muslim.

PLUS PROPS to Hillary for dealing with this question with clarity and truthfulness! B-)


Hillary Clinton on CBS - 60 Minutes - March 2nd, 2008 (my transcript)

KROFT: You don't believe that Senator Obama's a Muslim?

HILLARY: Of course not. I mean that's, you know, there is no basis for that. You know, I take him on the basis of what he says. And, you know, there isn't any reason to doubt that.

KROFT: You said you take Senator Obama at his word that he's not a Muslim.

HILLARY: Right. Right.

KROFT: You don't believe that he's a Muslim?

HILLARY: No. No. Why would I? There's no ... No. There's nothing to base that on - as far as I know.

KROFT: It's just scurillous ...

HILLARY: Look, I have been the target of so many ridiculous rumours. I have a great deal of sympathy for anyone who gets, you know, smeared by the kind of rumours that go on all the time.


You can see the whole video here:
www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=3897988n

The part about Obama's religion is all in the final 3 minutes.

Hillary's answer is very clear and absolutely truthful.

The problem with this whole discussion is that it confirms and underlines the widely-held prejudice that there is something wrong with being a Muslim.

As if being a Muslim would somehow make a person "less American" than a Christian or a Jew or an Agnostic or an Atheist/Humanist/Rationalist.

If you ask, me, I think Hillary should have said "Well, as far as I know, Senator Obama is not a Muslim. Not that there's anything wrong with that!" B-)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

57. I'd Say It Gives You Away Far More Than It Gives Her Away.

The reaction to this has been jawdropping in its feigned outrage. It's getting to the point of complete ridiculousness.

And the picture you put at the end is pathetic, and you should be ashamed for having put it there, but I won't hold my breath that you could feel shame for any of your behavior.

[meow mix]

58. she admitted to being a racist.

in my estimation

[Horse with no Name]

60. Go ahead and say it...it just adds to the other lies here

might as well throw it in.
You obamatrons have no boundaries.

[Apollo11]

63. Hillary did NOT susggest there is anything wrong with being a Muslim.

But of course would be a smear to falsely claim (either on TV or radio or via e-mail) that Obama is trying to mislead the public by pretending to be a "devout Christian" (his words) in his public life while secretly deep down he is some kind of covert Muslim radical. That would be a smear - no?

So I don''t doubt that's what Hillary meant with her statement about rumors.

[TexasObserver]

61. Hillary doesn't take bribes in small, unmarked bills, as far as I KNOW.

But, there's a reason she won't give up those tax returns.

I've never said Bill is a bag man for her, either. He's not, as far as I know.

[MethuenProgressive]

62. Only rabid HillaryHaters are buying this BS line

Silly Bamabots.

[burythehatchet]

64. that stupid expression on her face goes along perfectly with the quotes in question

good job.

[Stephanie]

66. One thing she is not is stupid.

Nobody ever accused her of that.

[burythehatchet]

67. neither did I n/t