Bill Clinton helped me decide who I should switch my Edwards vote to

[grantcart]

Just one guy's opinion and I don't want or expect it to influence any of you. But I joined DU not long ago having spent the last year feeling like I was the only guy in my neck of the woods who even knew who John Edwards was. I want to thank all of my fellow Edwards supporters for giving me encouragement.

Bill Clinton reminded me that basic Clinton doctrine is to divide and conquer. They do it in the party and in the nation. It is a winning strategy but it is not leadership.

For those touting the great Clintonian leadership please remember that he won twice with Perot in the race. Winning without a strong mandate.

Much to my surprise the Clintonian technique of parsing and arguing what the meaning of is is and what a handshake is, is mirrored here in DU. When Hillary's campaign went bottom feeding in South Carolina dozens of DU Clintonians would argue every nuance. Obama's supporters here seemed to be more objective and open. Of course there were some Clinton supporters who wanted to take the high road and some Obama supporters were petty but as a rule I found the inverse to be true.

I don't want nuance, I want leadership. The changes that are needed especially on global warming and health care are going to require a new coalition not triangulation.

In my little neighborhood there are a few democrats, some independents and half are republicans. I talked to all of them about John they were polite but they didn't see what I saw. I lost 10 year friendships over it.

Many of them, including republicans, are very interested in Obama. There is not a single Clinton supporter and at least half are for anyone but Clinton.

This weekend I will be calling for Obama. I will make my small contribution to Obama wishing it were more.

Thank you John and Elizabeth

[Occam Bandage]

1. Thank you for sharing your decision.

[grantcart]

4. Its offered for free and that is what is worth :-)

Occam you were one of those who I felt most mirrored the better side of Obama

[roguevalley]

35. I'm just tired of Clinton-Bush. if Hillary gets in, that will continue. I am

tired, tired, tired today.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

53. No similarities-US was prosperous & esteemed under Clinton, under Bush... I hate this talking point.

[grantcart]

56. its not a talking point

in the general election you will hear the constant drum of Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton until you want to vomit.

Is it unfair yes but it will be there and it will give the Republicans the opening not only to bash Clinton but also to appear to run against Bush.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

57. Rupuks say a lot of crap - & it's about time we start calling them on it & this is one of their TP's

[grantcart]

58. actually 28 years of presidential leadership shared

between two families is reminiscent of many of the third world countries I have lived in.

You can't call them on a fact.

If Hillary were to serve two terms it would mean an entire generation of Americans, more than 10% of our entire nation's history would be dominated by these two rather unremarkable families.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

59. Neither "unremarkable" - Bush damaged, while Clinton strengthened the US - they're not the same. nt

[grantcart]

60. How many university presidents or

leading scientists or great musicians or great novels or olympic gold medals or artists or innovative companies have these families
produced. None.

Roosevelts, Kennedys, Rockefellers. These are remarkable families that have a wide cultural breadth.

That these two families should have dominated politics in the greatest most powerful country in the world is completely astonishing to anyone outside of the county who see two completely unremarkable families. That these two families should now account for more than 10% of the entire presidential history of the United States will be ridiculed in the general election.

Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton better get used to it because if she gets the nomination the ads are already written and it will run 20 times the swiftboating and here is the rub no matter how unfair it is to Hillary it is factually true. Now it may not effect you and I probably could get my head around it, there is a solid 40% of the country that is not going to buy it.

[Frances]

2. Thoughtful post

It's interesting to me that Obama does seem to appeal more to Repubs than Hillary does. Or is it just Repub men?

[Windy]

3. He is for unity. Clinton is divisive. That is the appeal to those repubs and indies that are

ANTI WAR

[TheDeathadder]

7. c'mon

are we really going to use Edwards day to point out Obama is for Unity and Clinton was Divisive. There's an endless conversation we can have about Edwards and the Edwards Movement without having to mention Clinton or Obama's name once. Let's talk about Edwards and use Edwards as a chance to praise Obama and demonize Clinton.

[SammyWinstonJack]

52. Edwards was not much use on this board up to this day.

For those other than Edwards supporters and now they want to use him to further their candidate. It's obscene.

[grantcart]

54. I may be missing something but I couldn't figure out what you were trying to say.

[Yael]

8. Hillary is simply divisive and polarizing

Lesser of evils, IMO.

[gorekerrydreamticket]

16. No, I would say more cynical and calculating....n/t

[OutsourcingSucks]

10. Its because they know Obama will get trounced in the general election NT

[grantcart]

44. unlikely

[MH1]

13. Maybe because sometimes people register for a party for reasons other than their values.

There is a huge effect like that in my county, it comes down to: "you have to register as a republican if you want to get anything done." (The entire county government is in the pockets of the republicans, as well as many municipal governments; and there are quite a few "Dems" in public office who are really more like republicans.)

Because registration is public and voting isn't, it is interesting that Democrats do better in elections than the registration numbers would predict. But I wonder if registration really should be public. I guess it has to be, but around here I've learned not to assume to much about a person's beliefs just based on their party registration.

[grantcart]

39. some of it is an anti Hillary feeling that I don't completely understand

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. I'm with you.

I didn't always feel this way. I used to like both Bill and Hillary, but the more I see of the Clintons' campaign the more put off I am by the triangulation and the slipperiness and the lack of anything that looks like vision. I'm not going to be one of the bashers, but I don't care much for what I've been seeing. I think Obama better represents what I'm looking for.

It's pretty disappointing that the party has once again abandoned its progressive members.

[grantcart]

11. thank you

but it seems that by going a little less in your face with our progressive issues we may double the size of the tent.

The independents who are attracted to Obama know that he is liberal or progressive. Maybe some of them have wanted to

join a more progressive movement but were simply never asked in a nice way.

[Yael]

6. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this.

I am taking another (as unbiased as I can be) look at Senator Obama.

This helps.

[TheDeathadder]

9. C'mon

are we really going to use Edwards day to point out Obama is for Unity and Clinton was Divisive. There's an endless conversation we can have about Edwards and the Edwards Movement without having to mention Clinton or Obama's name once. Let's talk about Edwards and use Edwards as a chance to praise Obama and demonize Clinton.

[BeyondGeography]

12. It will be a great party with the Clintons out of the way

Edwards and Obama will be working together for US. Thanks for seeing the picture so clearly.

[TheDeathadder]

17. The Clintons Out Of the Way

Doesn't sound like a call for Unity to me. To many Democrats the Clintons are heroes. There's a better way to unify than saying the Clintons need to be removed from the party. Many Clinton people respect John Edwards and today are honoring his movement that lives. Let's leave out the names and mud throwing, and make this totally about Edwards - a great man and leader.

The Edwards Message Lives

The Edwards Movement Lives

The Edwards People are more Edwards than ever.

John Edwards isn't going away.

John Edwards will help the Democrats win the White House and House/Senate Seats.

John Edwards will continue to work towards saving America.

Thank you to the Edwards people for yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

[BeyondGeography]

20. Read the OP: The Clintons care not one bit for the party

and the proof is how they left it the last time they were fully in charge:

==Bill Clinton was the first two-term Democratic president since F.D.R. and was enormously popular — and yet at the end of eight years in office, there were fewer Democratic senators, fewer Democratic congressmen, fewer Democratic governors, fewer state legislators, and the party was in debt. You can be regarded as a charismatic president, and yet it doesn’t translate into structure.==

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/25/magazine/25WWLNQ4.t.html

Now they are simply older, more corrupt and angrier than the quasi-idealistic couple that gained the White House 16 years ago. Just about everyone on this board, myself included, supported and defended them without condition in the 90s. Our reward has been to watch them embrace our ideological enemies re. a false and illegal war while they were putting their ducks in a row for a new and fundamentally cynical bid for power. There was a time when we actually needed them to beat the Republicans; thankfully, more and more people are seeing that time has passed.

[TheDeathadder]

21. You know we can argue this point

until we're red in the face. people need to understand that the Clintons are heroes to many true and faithful Democrats who respectively disagree with you. This party will never be unified if we continue on a path of Democrat on Democrat hatred. There must be a better way. not to mention I am a HRC supporter 100%, but today I am totally about John Edwards and his Movement. I am totally appreciative for all of The Edwards People.

The Edwards Message Lives

The Edwards Movement Lives

The Edwards People are more Edwards than ever.

John Edwards isn't going away.

John Edwards will help the Democrats win the White House and House/Senate Seats.

John Edwards will continue to work towards saving America.

Thank you to the Edwards people for yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

I don't see how Clinton hatred on a day we are respecting John Edwards will help our Party and Country Unity.

[BeyondGeography]

22. It's not hatred...you should allow that people have followed a rational path to where they are today

You still support 'em, fine. I can understand that point of view. Saying that those who have moved away are just haters is complete nonsense.

[TheDeathadder]

25. it's not complete nonsense

There's better ways to deal with members of the party than saying we need them out of the party. I'm not 100% happy with Obama, but I don't say we need to get rid of him. I say we need to work with him. You also have to remember that many true democrats see the Clintons as heroes. When we see the boots being taken to The Clintons, when we see other Democrats looking to draw blood from The Clintons, we are not filled up with the feeling of unity. There is a better way to go about things. Clinton, Obama, and Edwards are far closer than dems and repubs.

[BeyondGeography]

28. "Out of the way" doesn't mean out of the party

She can be Senator, he can be the altruistic ex-President, nothing wrong with that. The face and reputation of this party needs to be revived, however, and a lot of us feel the Clinton brand isn't what we need anymore.

[TheDeathadder]

30. Ok that sounds better

Out of the race is much better than out of the party. Usually when someone on DU says they want HRC "out of the way" they mean in a grave ;) Sorry if I went a different direction with it. I still want HRC to win the whole thing 100%, but you should know as an Obama supporter, I disagree on some things with you, but if Obama wins the Primary he can count on my vote in November 100%.

[grantcart]

34. I hope that you did not think that I was supporting Clinton hatred.

It would be nice to have a week to show our appreciation to the Edwards but I am feeling the press of time. It seems like 6 days it will be pretty much decided. I would have and probably should have waited a day but expect to be travelling tomorrow. I agree with you that Edwards has a unique contribution and I believe him when he says that it will continue.

[TheDeathadder]

37. No I just didn't want a wave of "get rid of the Clintons"

to take over a day of "Edwards is a great man with a great mission", and that started to happen or better said, it seemed like that was beginning to happen to this original post. Knowing you'll be away from the computer is tough if you have become addicted to primary discussion like I have. I was up and down with Edwards during the Primary, but I am sad he won't go all the way to the Convention. It's been a tough race, but one I hope will make the party strong, and yes, unified.

[grantcart]

38. Yes and it seems to have had a long build up and then it was over so quick.

Nobody in my family understands how we can be so upset.

[K Gardner]

14. K&R

[MH1]

15. Thank you for your thoughtful post.

[truebrit71]

18. Thanks for sharing your wise decision...all very vaild points...I too am sorry JE is out...

...Edwards/Obama would have been nice...but I'll take Obama/Edwards in a pinch..

[Vinca]

19. Thank you. I truly believe Obama is the best choice to move

this country forward. Hillary is a very smart woman, but the most polarizing figure in politics today. We can't afford to tread water for another 4 years.

[cooolandrew]

23. All the best to the Edward family, good luck for the future. Great respect for the post. K&R.

[cooolandrew]

24. ...

[Marrah_G]

26. Good for you!

Much respect to anyone getting out there and campaigning for their candidate. Even though I may be cheering on a different candidate it's still great to see people being part of the process.

In a few weeks we will (hopefully) all be working hard for the same candidate, regardless of who that will be.

[AtomicKitten]

27. Thank you.

My condolences to you and other Edwards supporters. I hope you know that most of us have been there and really do understand the disappointment. John Edwards ran the race like a gentleman, and I will never forget that.

[readmoreoften]

29. And what do we gain through such a unity?

It is nice to get along with your neighbors and friends. But what if you alienated your friends and neighbors because you were right?

At the end of the day, when the neoconservative movement, the Democrats, and the pro-laissez-faire capitalism anti-war crowd comes together who wins?

Did you support Edwards because you wanted an end to war and predatory capitalism? Do you think Obama will deliver these ends? Obama--who has praised Reagan, who gives speeches at the Council on Foreign Relations, who is praised by the neoconservative movement, who wants to expand the military, who has no intention of repealing the Bush tax cuts, who wants MORE religion in politics?

Is Clinton different? No. She's a corporate hack as far as I'm concerned. But AT LEAST she's divisive. At LEAST she's opposed by the neoconservative movement.

Enough feel good politics: politics that feel good for me, but bad for thee. Politics that feel good between neighbors, but destroy distant nations. Enough.

[grantcart]

36. Well living in a racially mixed marriage and with children in

racially mixed marriages we have pretty good sense if neighbors are reacting to base motives or not. And obviously if our concern was just getting along with neighbors we would live in a place where we didn't stick out so much, although in California it is a lot more laid back than some of the places we lived that had Aryan Nation folks in the neighborhood.

What if they want to join a broader coalition led by a democrat (with whom they do not agree with everything) but no one ever asks them. Not all will join but why unnecessarily alienate people with whom we share many if not all our values and priorities? And where is the sell out by Obama? What policy has he given up to get support? In otherwords is he moving them or are they moving him? So far it appears that it is the former.

[JohnLocke]

31. K&R (nt).

[1776Forever]

32. Thank you for being thoughtful and looking at the future and not the past!!!!!!!

:hi: :bounce: :hi:
Welcome!!!!

GObama!!!!!!

[goclark]

49. Lovely post

:bounce:

[my3boyz]

33. Thank you so much

I'm going to donate to John's campaign too to make sure he has enough to cover the expenses. John is a wonderful man and would have been a wonderful president.

[Az_lefty]

40. The Clinton' s are all about themselves. GoBama!

first I supported Biden then Edwards, Obama is the only one left I have any respect for.

[ieoeja]

41. In Clinton's defense, "depends on what the meaning of 'is' is".

I happened to be watching it live. When he was asked that question I immediately started screaming at my TV, "that's a trick question".

He could/should have re-phrased his reply by restating their question in a non-trick manner, but for a guy on the spot I thought he handled it brilliantly.

[grantcart]

42. You are probably right but

the same kind of parsing has become a major part of Clinton tactics. When on Meet the Press, for example, Hillary went on a 5 minute discussion on the "context" of the question of authorizing the vote on the war in Iraq. Then in the debate she had the Chutzpah to tell Obama he is difficult to have a debate with because "you never take responsibilty for your past".

Your right it is very clever and many cases it is justified, but it has become the default mode for them and it drives me crazy. You know if she had made a single clear statement that her vote on the war was wrong I probably would have a completely different impression of her.

[PleadTheFirst]

43. Well said, grantcart.

I'm heartbroken that Edwards left the race before "Super Tuesday," depriving me of my chance to vote for him in the primaries.

But what's done is done. If I can't have the democratic nominee I want, at least I have Obama as a choice.

[Perry Logan]

45. My experience is completely different. Hardly a day goes by without the Obamites grossing me out.

[grantcart]

46. take as much time as you need

Clintons have spent 20 years perfecting triangulation which essentially is a divide and rule strategy

[Qutzupalotl]

47. There's lots of rudeness on DU, all around.

I hope you'll ignore the more fervent posters and focus on the candidates themselves. Good luck.

[grantcart]

50. wise counsel is it that there are few cool heads in DU or

they are just drowned out?

[Qutzupalotl]

51. Both, unfortunately.

But we're working on it...

[VotesForWomen]

48. if you're in a heavily repug area, it's not surprising they're favoring obama over clinton. nt

[grantcart]

55. We have a republican congressman (actually we have one sitting in jail too)

I don't see many signs of deeply conservative ideology here. Issues like choice, environment, civil rights are all typical Californian.