Barack Obama Is Not a Constitutional Law Professor

[agdlp]

Barack Obama has at least once, uttered the sentence "I was a constitutional law professor."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/30/politics/p132303D74.DTL&type=politics

This has been repeated, uncritically. One of Sully's correspondents,
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/11/what-has-obama.html
for example. Mark Kleiman, who really ought to know better, called him a "Con. Law Prof."

http://www.samefacts.com/archives/barack_obama_/2007/12/obamas_trick.php

As Powerline noted back in April,
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2007/04/017012.php
this is, shall we say, a bit of puffery. Obama has taught courses in constitutional law, and so in casual conversation his students might well refer to him as "Professor." But he is listed on the University of Chicago web page as "Senior Lecturer in Law."

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/obama/cv.html

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/obama/ppw.html

His publications page lists his two autobiographical books, but no academic work of any sort, much less any academic writings on constitutional law. Now, given his relatively strong academic credentials and the extent of affirmative action in academic hiring, if Obama had written articles about, well, pretty much anything, he would undoubtedly have been able to get hired at an elite law school in a tenure-track position. But he didn't.

Barack Obama may well know a lot more about constitutional law than the average person, or even the average lawyer. But he is not a Professor of Constitutional Law. Nor is he an assistant professor or associate professor. At most, he's an "adjunct professor," which is not the same thing at all.

[Dogmudgeon]

1. Well, Hillary said once that she was the the Queen of England!

And so was Bill!

:evilgrin:

--p!

[robbedvoter]

2. That may excuse his cavalier attitude towards voting rights. Or doesn't it?

[rodeodance]

62. nope.

[FrenchieCat]

77. What cavalier attitude? Would you elaborate? Thanks.

[Occam Bandage]

3. Since you're new here, I'll cut you a bit of slack on this:

linking to disgusting RW hacksites like Powerline is not going to help your case.

[madrchsod]

10. plus andy repeating that barrack

used to be a muslim but converted

[hollowdweller]

4. I've never heard the professor part I always just heard "taught consitutional law"

[Dems Will Win]

76. He was offered a tenured professorship at Chicago U but decided to take a leave of absence

to pursue another career path: The Presidency.

This thread is total BS.

[niceypoo]

87. He was a lecturer, not a professor

..there is a huge difference between the two. A Job offer doesnt make it so.

[Leopolds Ghost]

106. JRR Tolkien was a Lecturer at Oxford

despite being the world's foremost authority in Anglo-Saxon literature.

You don't get the title "professor" until you get tenure... and you
don't get tenure at a school like Uni.Chicago (one of the top three
law schools in the nation) until your career is set, you have dozens of
published and cited articles in your name and you have a staff of
low-paid post-docs (PhDs, qualified to become associate professors
at a lesser college) working under you and giving the actual lectures.

And there is fierce competition for a position in the office of a
tenured associate professor at the best universities... if you get one
as a post-doc, your career is set. Lecturers are considered faculty, NOT staff.

Never mind full professors, those are reserved for RETIRING public
officials with a law background and Nobel prize winners at a school
like U. Chicago. Full professor means you are close to emeritus,
unless it's a shitty school.

[existentialist]

5. Close enough that on the present scale of truth in politics

that it is substantially above average.

This doesn't mean that it should be passed over without comment.


But it's hardly ammunition for any major assault on his veracity.


Why heck, compared with some of Al Gore's statements that were distorted and blown all out of proportion by right wing attack machines, its mild.

[Sadie5]

6. I've heard this too

On MTP or Wolfie's show. Thanks for the article. There are some big ass lies out there concerning the golden boy.

[DURHAM D]

38. One of Obama's regular supporters on DU

referred to him the other day as a renowned constitution law scholar or professor.

I sprayed my monitor.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

7. He wasn't a cheer leader ether.

[SammyWinstonJack]

103. ...

:spray: That's it, he doesn't qualify for the Presidency! :evilgrin:

[Proud2BAmurkin]

8. kick for EXPOSING deception

[Occam Bandage]

13. Not surprised to see you proudly kicking deception.

[rodeodance]

18. The problem is WHO is engaged in deception. NOT that this thread is kicked.

[Occam Bandage]

23. That would be the OP. Obama does not present himself as a professor.

The occasional somewhat-inaccurate statement mixed into a repeated habit of accuracy on a topic is not "deception." It's a misstatement. Candidates make them all the time.

[rodeodance]

24. ooopsie --you missed this one--says he did so.

Barack Obama has at least once, uttered the sentence "I was a constitutional law professor."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/30/politics/p132303D74.DTL&type=politics

[Occam Bandage]

29. Oopsie--you didn't read past the subject line.

[rodeodance]

46. look closer at my post

[Occam Bandage]

48. I did. You see, I actually read posts before replying to them. That way I don't

accidentally make an ass of myself by proudly advancing something that had already been addressed.

[rodeodance]

51. well, what is it about my post that is confusing you???

[Occam Bandage]

53. The fact that you seem to believe you have disproven

"The occasional somewhat-inaccurate statement mixed into a repeated habit of accuracy on a topic is not "deception." It's a misstatement. Candidates make them all the time."

with a link to Obama once saying "as a law professor," in a situation in which his actual title is completely beside the point.

[rodeodance]

57. I made an analogy to Bush pig farm. That is all I did. Any thing else are ILLUSIONS in your head.

[Occam Bandage]

68. Um, may I ask what the hell that has to do with the conversation we're having now?

Here, at this point in the thread?

[rodeodance]

30. yeah yeah--its a "Misstatment"

The occasional somewhat-inaccurate statement mixed into a repeated habit of accuracy on a topic is not "deception." It's a misstatement. Candidates make them all the time.

[Occam Bandage]

31. When you have one mention of himself as a "professor" among a thousand

speeches in which he says "I taught law," yes, it's a misstatement--especially since at UC, he was called a professor by everyone else. I didn't even know he wasn't really a professor until the media brought it up; I just assumed he was because everyone referred to him as such.

[grantcart]

124. there is a huge difference between lecturer and professor

:sarcasm:

[bluestateguy]

9. This is true

He was an adjunct professor or lecturer, which is not the same thing as a tenured professor or tenure-track assistant professor. Students, however, are expected to refer to a lecturer or an adjunct as "professor" or "Dr." if they hold a Ph.D.

Adjuncts and lecturers are hired on one year contracts and are not expected to do research or publish as part of their job. Their job is strictly to teach. They are paid on a per course basis.

[Lisa0825]

97. Thank you!

Good grief this argument is annoying! It reeks of desperation! I lean Edwards, not Obama, but I recognize a stoopid smear when I see one. I have gone to community colleges, undergraduate universities, and graduate school. I have also posted jobs for community colleges, and often saw the title "adjunct professor" used. One does not have to be tenured to be referred to (or to refer to oneself) as a professor. I honestly never knew which of my professors was full time, part time, adjunct, tenured, etc., but I always referred to them as "Professor." It was the proper title for their profession.

[rodeodance]

11. those labels are important to acedemics and Professor is reserved for the top level.

[Occam Bandage]

14. And Obama's colleagues would proudly have had him as a full professor. He declined.

[rodeodance]

20. yes but then he should not refer to himself as Professor.

[Occam Bandage]

26. And he doesn't. He's generally very accurate. You can find a handful of technically-inaccurate

misstatements for any politician. There's no consistent pattern of referring to himself as a professor; only the occasional error.

[rodeodance]

59. Yes, he is articulate. So slips that, on the surface, puff up his credentials raise a flag.

[Occam Bandage]

78. I didn't say anything about him being articulate. This is like the fourth time

you've replied to something that wasn't said. Are you sober?

Anyway, I understand raising a flag, but at the same time I don't think that means that all slips are necessarily fraudulent. "Law professor," in the context in which he was speaking, and for the audience to whom he was speaking, would provide a better representation of his credentials than "law lecturer;" that sounds more like he just gave a talk every once in a while. Therefore, he took convenience over accuracy. It was a mistake, and an embarrassing one, but hardly an especially noteworthy one.

[niceypoo]

90. Your round about way of saying he lied...

Because the lie, "sounds better."

[Leopolds Ghost]

116. An adjunct professor is still a professor at almost any college you go to.

At most colleges even the lowest person that teaches courses on their own
is considered a prof. And none of them have any chance of getting into U.
Chicago except as a student!!!!

[niceypoo]

91. delete

[DURHAM D]

34. Wrong - first you have to be hired on a tenure tract.

Obama would not meet the standards for such a hire at the University of Chicago.

Once hired a faculty member goes through several levels before you can be considered for a full professorship.

I guarantee you that every time someone refers to him as a "Constitution Law Professor at the University of Chicago" every law faculty member in the country throws up their mouth.

[Occam Bandage]

39. Nobody is claiming he would have made full professor immediately. Though you're wrong on the

throwing-up bit, as both a UC alum and someone who knows many law professors.

[spooky3]

75. as a full professor, I can tell you they may not throw up but

they would definitely not approve of an adjunct professor's misrepresenting himself.

[Leopolds Ghost]

111. Then again, he was editor of the Harvard Law Review and a sitting Senator

The only other person I can think of in office with these level of
backgrounds as an academic, in my experience, are Sen. Webb or
AU Law Professor Jamin Raskin, a frequent Post Op Ed constitutonal
law expert who is now in the (Maryland) State Senate like Obama
and who used to be with ACLU. Jamie's dad was JFK's lawyer and
he is a noted constitutional scholar in his own right. Is Jamie
a full professor at AU, which, like Chicago, is far more prestigious
a law school and far harder to get into than most places? I wonder
if he throws up in his mouth when thinking of Obama's academic record.
Once you are even an adjunct professor at one of these schools, it is
a platform for public office because you are in the top .01%.

[spooky3]

119. These are not the things academia values most highly

Not at the top schools.

He deserves credit for what he did do, but it is patently unfair to either give him credit for what he did NOT do or to denigrate the accomplishments of those who earned the respect of their peers in a profession that Obama did NOT enter, by giving someone an unearned title, or suggesting that academia ignore research achievements of the highest level in favor of achievements that are not relevant.

Take a look at any accreditation standards if you need more explanation as to why certain credentials are considered minimum and certain achievements are valued more than are others.

Saying Obama was a professor or that his achievements warrant that label is analogous to saying that the best medical researcher is the family doctor who has taken care of you for 40 years. That doctor may be absolutely the best in his/her profession, but s/he has not done controlled medical research, which takes a very different ability and skill.

[Leopolds Ghost]

121. I have a family member who had to constantly publish and get post docs for 20 years

To get where she is today. She would faint if offered a professorship of any kind at a major Research University like Chicago. And Adjunct lecturer is still professor, even if they aren't tenure track.

You wouldn't want to put it on your formal resume without the "adjunct" qualifier, but that's what you'd call it, professor

(of couse, law professors probably have special terminology like "lecturer in law" -- and still I'm sure many law lecturers are highly respected.)

Don't be put out if an uninformed person calls him a "noted constitutional expert" that sort of stuff is hyperbole from uninformed individuals.

[Leopolds Ghost]

118. "Obama would not meet the standards for such a hire at the University of Chicago." -- Actually,

Elsewhere in thread, bears repeating:

"Those are tremendous (student) ratings, especially for someone who had a day job," Professor Cass Sunstein said. "We wanted him to join the faculty full-time at various different junctures. That's not a trivial fact. . . . If we want to hire someone, the faculty has to think they're tremendous. But he liked political life."

This was mid-1990s to 2003, when he was a State Senator, long before
anyone knew who Obama was.

You can argue that Professor and U. Chicago was corruptly influenced
by Illinois State Politics to hire an "obviously unqualified individual"
but I highly suspect it was the other way around.

Anyone with a U. Chicago academic sinecure (who has a proven track record
in public policy academia) who then chooses to get into local politics is
bound to have a supportive network and do very well. MD State Senator
Jamie Raskin, a well-known constitutional scholar at AU who frequently
used to write for the Post on civil liberties issues, is on the same
track. Does it help that his dad was a lawyer for the Kennedys?
I suppose it does, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a
respected constitutional professor.

[spooky3]

73. that is NOT how academia works

particularly at a top school. You have to earn your way to full prof., through the ranks of assistant and associate professor, primarily through publication in top scholarly journals.

There is NO way that he would have been appointed to full prof. at a school like Chicago.

[Leopolds Ghost]

113. "There is NO way he would have been appointed to full prof. at U. of Chicago."

Since Obama was editor of the Harvard Law Review, you had BETTER mean this
as a circumstantial fact, NOT as a categorical claim.

Circumstantially it is true you have to teach for many, many years and/or
win a Nobel Prize before getting a full professorship at U. of Chicago.

At any lesser school Obama would have been considered an assistant professor
and put on tenure track. In fact he WAS offered tenure track despite his young age.

Most colleges don't even HAVE adjunct lecturers. Almost all faculty in
most colleges are considered profs. Assistant or associate. Full prof
at a good school means you are widely respected academic expert in a
chosen field. Of course you know all this.

[Marie26]

128. Law is different

Not an expert, but because law professors don't have a higher degree like a PhD, they've almost got to first publish an article in a law review in order to even be taken seriously as a candidate. It's insanely competitive.

[Marie26]

74. I doubt that

Obama might've been a great teacher, but to be a full professor, he'd have to have published articles in academic journals.

[Leopolds Ghost]

117. You have to CONTINUALLY publish to get ANY PhD job and remain in academia.

That includes Post-Docs who make $35,000 a year in 6-month stints.

You have to amass either Post-Docs or VERY good references/CV
(including numerous published articles while you were still
in grad school, i.e. you had to have been groomed by a prof
to get a by-line on the authorship) to get a professorship of
any sort at a good college. That includes lecturer. It is
almost impossible to break into unless you are VERY good or
settle for a low-paid job at a community college because you
love to teach. Even THEN you have to publish occasionally
and attend conferences simply to remain current in your field.

A lecturer is like a journeyman wireman in the electrician field.
It means you have been vetted. if you don't fuck up you could be
a tenured professor one day. In the meantime you are considered
an entry level (non-tenured) professor.

(the pool of tenured profs is growing ever smaller -- I think
there are only something like a hundred tenured research
scientists in NIH or your average prestigious university --
it is far easier to become a state legislator.)

[Marie26]

127. Well, right

Which is why there's no way Obama could've become a full-time professor at U of Chicago - he hasn't published even one academic article. Law is a little bit different, because none of the professors have Ph.D's, though many have LLM's. Lecturer-in-law is very prestigious, but it's not the same thing as a full professor, or even an adjunct professor. Lecturers continue in their "real" job as a attorney in their field, and teach a class or two for the school. But regardless of the title, all law school teachers will be called "professor" by their students.

[alcibiades_mystery]

52. Not true at all

I refer to adjuncts who have completed their PhDs as professor, when they are working as teachers.

[tishaLA]

84. wrong. PhDs, even with adjunct jobs, are "professors"

I've been in academia looooooong enough to know.

[niceypoo]

89. All of the professors at my university are PHDs

and the lecturers are either industry people or masters degrees.

[Leopolds Ghost]

110. As you should well know, in a GOOD school it is almost impossible to be tenured prof

Once you get tenure and become an associate prof, your career is set
and you will likely be there till the day you die because you have
definitely "made it".

Look at what you have to get to Obama's academic level (which anyone
pooh-poohing just alienates real academics with their ignorance):

Student Faculty Aide -- Masters or PhD candidate.
Teach many actual bachelors level classes and do much of the
research scut-work at large universities.

Staff Instructor or Staff Faculty Aide -- Masters level, non-PhD.
May have years of PhD work under their belt. This is the second
lowest rung.

Post-Doc -- Low paid faculty aide. You have to have several
working for a WELL-KNOWN professor AND publish a whole bunch
of articles before you can even think of getting a salaried
position at any large university.

Lecturer -- Published and Cited, PhD with Post-Docs and an
excellent resume in the chosen field, incliding (in Obama's
case) editor of the Harvard Law Review (for comparison:
Conan O'Brien was editor of the Harvard Lampoon. Once you get
either of these positions, it is hard to top later in life,
prestige-wise.) A lecturer is pre-tenure track, salaried
position. A Lecturer at any lesser school is considered
an assistant professor FROM THE GET GO. If they stay put
and don't move away from U. Chicago which is possibly the
most selective in the nation, they become an Assistant Prof.
This is only at the most prestigious schools. Most colleges
all faculty (who teach courses) are considered profs.

Assistant Professor -- tenure track. PhD with numerous
published and cited articles, a pure academic with at least
one or two assistants usually his or her own grad students
who are conducting research under him or her. OBAMA WOULD
HAVE BEEN CONSIDERED A PROFESSOR at any college of a lesser tier.

Associate Professor -- you have tenure and are widely
respected school-wide and teach large classes of 100
students or more. People show up just to hear you speak
at conferences. Schools are clamping down on tenure
to keep costs down, due to competition over highly-skilled
academics who schools with huge endowments, like Chicago,
are willing to pay big bucks for.

Full Professor -- at a REALLY GOOD school like Chicago
you don't get this unless you are world famous or close
to being emeritus (retired).

[Leopolds Ghost]

115. NO, "Professor" is reserved for the top 5 levels - Adjunct, Assistand, Associate, Full, Emeritus

And it is EXTREMELY HARD to get into the top 5 levels in a really good school like University of Chicago.

A family member had 20 years of research under her belt and she was fortunate to get a STAFF (non-faculty) position at a comparable research institution. If she had been 20 years younger (ageism) or afforded to spend 10 more years in staff post-docs until she found a professor WILLING and CONNECTED enough to "groom" her and provide the sort of high-level networking you claim is so evil (both State Senator and professor of any sort at U. Chicago are extrenely high level) she would have been able to put in for Adjunct Professor at a good university. So I take this BS personally.

Did the Chicago mobbed up political machine "pull strings" with such a prestigious college to get him considered? If so, only because they saw potential in him as a future politician to look out for, with a heartwarming life story and better academic record than you or I could hope to muster, being the editor of the Harvard Law Review and all. Does the Chicago machine suck? Well yeeah and all Illinios Dem politicians are forced to depend on it and most of them aren't inspiring lecturers with respected academic track records.

[babylonsister]

Laurence Tribe, Obama's professor of constitutional law at Harvard Law,

said Obama was the best student he has ever had. That's pretty impressive...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurence_Tribe

[Adelante]

12. Because he didn't want to be a professor, not because it wasn't offered

White House hopeful Barack Obama could have given it all up for the gentler life of a law professor.

A Sun-Times review of student evaluations from Obama's 10 years of teaching part-time at the University of Chicago Law School shows that students almost always rated Obama as one of their top instructors -- except for one quarter in 1997.

"Those are tremendous ratings, especially for someone who had a day job," Professor Cass Sunstein said. "We wanted him to join the faculty full-time at various different junctures. That's not a trivial fact. . . . If we want to hire someone, the faculty has to think they're tremendous. But he liked political life."

-snip

Some Obama critics say because he had the title of "senior lecturer" he should not call himself "professor." U. of C. professors said Obama -- who practiced civil rights law for a time and stopped teaching in 2003 -- could have joined their ranks whenever he wanted.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/701490,CST-NWS-obamaprof18.article


Welcome to DU :hi:

[rodeodance]

16. if O. would have accepted the promotions it would have required original research, publishing ect.

which is time consuming.

[Occam Bandage]

21. Once he took the job, yes. He preferred politics.

[rodeodance]

32. no problem.

[babylonsister]

25. Especially when he had higher aspirations, and knew it began at

the local level, helping his community.

[Adelante]

28. He didn't want to be a professor

He wanted to be in politics. The rest is bullshit.

[okasha]

58. Like the current VP, he had other priorities.

Very few professors of any subject are able to buy $2 million dollar houses, still less secure the help of a sleazebag financier to assist them in buying the lawn.

[Adelante]

80. The year he bought the house, 2005, his income was $1.7M

The house cost $1.6M; well within in his range. He made the money on his books and his wife's considerable salary, in addition to what he earned as a legislator. The sleazebag financier was paid $104,500 for one-sixth of the vacant lot he owned next to Obama's house. You can make this sound as ugly as you like, as determined as you are to do that, but it's a crock.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/moneymag/0712/gallery.candidates.moneymag/5.html

[okasha]

83. Thank you.

That was my point. Nobody buys a house like that on a prof's salary, which is usually somewhere around 5% of what BHO made the year he bought his house. Civil rights lawyers don't usually do much better, if as well.

Interesting that you bring up the $104,500.00 for the side yard. As I seem to recall, that strip was actually appraised at $40,000. I do wonder what the extra 64K bought.

[Adelante]

88. The purchase of the vacant lot was for $625,000

Obama later paid for one sixth of that property, so there was no extra $64K to buy anything. I don't know what the appraisal might have been. Obama paid one sixth of the original purchase price.

[lurky]

15. What's with the affirmative action comment?

You could have made your point without it, and it makes your motives suspect.

Obama taught constitutional law at Chicago. His use of the word professor might be construed as misleading to the 5% of us who know the difference between an adjunct and an assistant professor, but isn't especially troubling to me.

Regarding his qualifications, I doubt U of Chicago lets just any lawyer lecture in constitutional law, no matter what their race or how good their grades were. The place is not exactly a degree mill.

Are you trying out a new meme or something?

[Redstone]

17. You're gonna keep rolling that big rock up the hill, and have it roll over you on the way down,

and then do it again, and again, and again, aren't you?

Kind of pathetic, but at least it's fun to watch. What HORRIBLY SCANDALOUS THING will you have to say about Obama next? That when he was six years old, he took a cookie from the jar even after his mamma told him not to?

Redstone

[DURHAM D]

19. I read/re-read some older articles over the past few days.

In a couple the authors indicated the powers that be got him the job at U. of C. for the purpose of puffing his resume. Also, the big paying job for Michelle and the corporate board appointments were secured by major string pulling for the purpose of creating a political couple. The point is that whoever is pulling the levers in Chicago has major major influence and big bucks.

David Axelrod has been instructing/shepherding Obama for fifteen years. I did not realize until very recently that the media guy has been forming the claymation guy for that long.

It makes you wonder about the present votes, etc. Has Obama checked in with David before every vote in his career? Did David tell him to make the anti-war speech and write it for him? Probably.

Will the general public know before it is too late that there is no there there? Nope.

[rodeodance]

22. HA--reminds me of how Bush purchased the pig farm so he could have his WESTERN WHITE HOUSE.

[lurky]

27. Do you have links?

[rodeodance]

33. yes.--its called Google.

[Occam Bandage]

35. So provide. I can't find.

[rodeodance]

43. silly, I feel no need to waste my time on this as it is common knowledge on DU.

[Occam Bandage]

44. Common knowledge? I'm not the only one who thinks you're misleading at best.

[rodeodance]

49. What am I misleading?--that Bush bought a pig ranch in TX?

[Occam Bandage]

50. Any of the bullshit in post 19, which is what we're all talking about.

[rodeodance]

54. sorry, but 19 is not my post.

Any of the bullshit in post 19, which is what we're all talking about.
Posted by Occam Bandage

[tammywammy]

56. Occam was originally posting a reply to post 19

You're the one that jumped in saying it was common knowledge.

[rodeodance]

61. I replyed to 19 also.

[Occam Bandage]

70. Yes. So why did you think that "Do you have links," explicitly directed at post #19,

was actually asking for links to the pig farm?

[tammywammy]

71. Riiight

And when Occam asked for links it was to post 19, not yours.

[Occam Bandage]

66. And we were all replying to post 19, not to your post. Pay attention.

[Marie26]

64. Here's one

"David Axelrod has been instructing/shepherding Obama for fifteen years."

This is true. But I haven't found anything that confirms the other allegations.

From NY Times:

"Axelrod met Obama when the senator was 30 years old and coordinating a voter-registration drive in Chicago and Betty Lou Saltzman, a doyenne of progressive politics in Chicago, suggested that the two get to know each other. In the 15 years since, Axelrod has worked through Obama’s life story again and again, scouring it for usable political material, and he believes that some basic themes come through: that he is “not wedded to any ideological frame or dogma,” that he is “an outsider rather than someone who’s spent years in the dens of Georgetown,” that he is an “agent for change” and has the optimism and dynamism of a fresh, young face.... Axelrod says that his model for the Obama campaign came last year when Deval Patrick ran for governor of Massachusetts. There are many ways in which Patrick’s run and Obama’s are similar: the optimism, the constant presence of the candidate’s biography, the combination of a crusading message of reform with the candidate’s natural pragmatism, the insistence that normal political categories did not apply, even the same, unofficial slogan, shouted from the crowds — “Yes. We. Can!"

Obama’s Narrator - http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/01/magazine/01axelrod.t.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

[Occam Bandage]

67. Nobody doubted that Axelrod has been Obama's political advisor. It's the rest

we're taking issue with.

[Marie26]

69. It was news to me

I had no idea that the two went back that far. But the rest just seems like speculation/rumor/smear.

[lurky]

42. Sorry, but the burden of proof is on the accuser.

I have heard a lot of negative things about Obama, but these are new to me.

[LittleClarkie]

107. I would like links to those articles if you have them

Also,

"It makes you wonder about the present votes, etc. Has Obama checked in with David before every vote in his career? Did David tell him to make the anti-war speech and write it for him? Probably."

That's a pretty hefty thing to claim if you don't know and have no proof. Probably?

[Leopolds Ghost]

114. I wouldn't be surprised, this is how Establishment candidates are made.

That's why they're ALL Harvard/Yale. EVERY SINGLE ONE is groomed to be an office holder from the moment they get a Masters degree. Try going into politics without entering a "program" to groom young office holders. You often have to be EXTREMELY promising in academia to even CATCH THE EYE of the machine political scouts. It's like pro sports. This is no different from Clinton or the Kennedys. EVEN THE FUCKING COLLEGE PS MAJORS volunteering in your local activist campaign (for pay) are nothing but ladder climbers putting in their dues until they can get into a prestigious post-grad program that grooms people for public service. I've known a few. Without the prestigious post-grad, earned or bought, the machine won't let you into their fraternity and will strenuously oppose you in any primary unless you're in the pocket of a major business interest.

[jody]

36. How dare you accuse BO of self-puffery, even though it's true. You deserve all the sarcastic posts

you'll receive in this thread. :rofl:

[LittleClarkie]

108. Well, if Hillary can do it, why not Obama

35 years of experience my ass.

[jody]

112. I can't disagree with you. n/t

[MonkeyFunk]

37. a distinction without a difference

in the minds of the vast majority of voters.

[cooolandrew]

40. This is clearly semantics. The point Barack is making is he is fully aware of the constitution ...

... compared to some representatives and senators on the hill. Which bodes well for him abiding by it in my personal opinion. I think I recall recently that he turned down a job as a professor to be an organiser taking a lower wage in the process to help people.

[rodeodance]

45. it is NOT semantics in the University acedemic fields.

[Occam Bandage]

47. And if he had been putting that on his CV, we'd have problems. But he wasn't.

[rodeodance]

55. point taken--regarding the CV

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[still_one]

60. Thanks, that did it for me, I guess I have to vote for someone who voted for the IWR

because that resolution is what has given the executive branch unchecked power to wage war with Congressional oversight, until it is repealed

[Marie26]

63. Oh.

Probably not a big deal, unless Obama has listed himself as a full tenured professor somewhere. BTW, I don't think he's even an adjunct professor. Adjunct professors work full-time, while lecturers in law will teach a class or two on the side. They usually have other full-time positions.

[bluedog]

65. he did say it

Obama Was A Constitutional Law Professor:

At A Recent Fundraiser, Obama Claimed He Was A "Constitutional Law Professor." "'I was a constitutional law professor, which means unlike the current president I actually respect the Constitution,' Obama told an audience at a campaign fundraiser." (Brendan Farrington, "Obama: Bush Fails To Respect The Constitution," The Associated Press, 3/30/07)

On The University Of Chicago Law School Website, Obama Is Listed As A "Senior Lecturer In Law (On Leave Of Absence)." (University Of Chicago Law School Website, http://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/obama, Accessed 3/30/07)

Obama Made This False Claim In His 2004 Senate Race. "Several direct-mail pieces issued for Obama's primary campaign said he was a law professor at the University of Chicago. He is not. He is a senior lecturer (now on leave) at the school. In academia, there is a vast difference between the two titles. Details matter." (Lynn Sweet, "Obama's Book: What's Real, What's Not" Chicago Sun-Times, 8/8/04)


http://wichita.craigslist.org/pol/552957338.html

[TankLV]

72. he just can't stop LYING, can't he!

and the obamabots STILL refuse to see it, let alone BELIEVE it...

[ProSense]

79. Your OP has been debunked

here

[still_one]

82. Where is the OP who started this thread? /nt

[lurky]

86. Starting more threads like it.

[guruoo]

81. More swiftboating crap to waste our time and valuable server space

http://www.wickedsunshine.com/WagePeace/Election2004/Images/AwJeez,NotThisShitAgain!.jpg

[Lisa0825]

98. Perfect response!

:rofl:

[desi]

85. In other words...

kinda like a TA

[tammywammy]

92. Um, no

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/20/12119/122

[desi]

94. Sorry tammy, I don't do kos at all

not a fan of markos...

[tammywammy]

95. okkkkay

So read it here
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4239757&mesg_id=4239757

[Leopolds Ghost]

126. No, a TA works for a lecturer. A lecturer is a newly-hired prof.

[JVS]

93. Oh, this is a scandal that will really play in Middle America

Cleetus: He ain't a real professor, how bouf that?
DelRoy: Adjunct Faculty! Why that's no diffrent than the local kids we hire at harvest time to help get the crops in!

:eyes:

[UALRBSofL]

96. More Interesting Information on Barack

The more I read the more I learn about Barack. His crown is becomung a little tarnished. :)

[goodhue]

99. He has taught Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago law school

your argument is weak at best

[Leopolds Ghost]

125. This is a Rovian attack in its purest form

* create a false issue in areas where your opponent is strongest
to distract from your own negatives (like Kerry's war record)

* rely on old or unprovable sources that can be mis-attributed
and meta-analyzed to prolong the discussion thru casuistry

* Rely on people's ignorance or hostility toward the subject
at hand, and rely on policy makers and media to keep silent
(at their bosses request) on what they know to be true in
their profession, for fear of "taking sides".

Most voters don't know, professionally, that:

-- U. of Chicago is one of the top 5 universities in the country,
and their law school may be the #1 or #2.

-- Lecturers in law are considered adjunct professors and are
given the title "professor" colloquially by students and
other professors, AS DISTINCT from staff and student aides.

Rely on people not to know this. FUD.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

100. he simply was invited to give a lecture for one class....was is not a teacher/professor

[Leopolds Ghost]

123. For several years. You try applying for a job as intro prof at U. Chicago. n/t

[neutron]

101. Ha Ha Ha! I was WONDERING about that!

It did seem like he was mighty young to be a Professor.
Adjuncts are nowhere close.

[Blue-Jay]

102. .

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/obama

[Leopolds Ghost]

129. U. Chicago link: FACULTY > Barack Obama Senior Lecturer in Law (on leave of absence)

Barack Obama
Senior Lecturer in Law (on leave of absence)
1111 East 60th Street
Chicago, IL 60637
phone: [phone]
email: [email protected]

Barack Obama received his bachelor of arts degree in political science from Columbia in 1983, and his J.D., magna cum laude, from Harvard Law School in 1991. While at Harvard, he served as the president of the Harvard Law Review.

Prior to attending Harvard Law School, Mr. Obama directed community organizing projects in low income communities in New York and Chicago. In 1992, he directed Illinois Project VOTE!, a state-wide voter registration and education campaign.

(etc.)

Not an academic research scholar, no. But a teaching prof, yes.

[sam kane]

104. Oh, please.

All who teach at a university are called professors...there are adjunct professors, assistant professors, associate professors, full professors, but in everyday speech their rank is rarely addressed (it would be regarded as tacky), ALL are called professors (by students, etc.). Plus, no, adjuncts are by definition part-time (no benefits, etc.). Visiting professors are often held in more esteem than the regular full-time faculty, that's why the University has recruitedf them. Anyone in academia knows that this post is completely wrong.

[sam kane]

105. Professor vs. professor

If he ever wrote that he was "a Professor of Constitutional Law" that would be a lie, but if he said he was "a professor of Constitutional Law" that would be the common way to refer to his work at the university. The capital P imples a specific advanced rank, the lower case p implies being paid to teach a full semester course at a university, whether that is as a visiting professor, full professor, etc.. The two terms are *not* interchangeable.

[Barack_America]

122. Hey thanks!

:hi:

[ErnestoG]

109. More sneaky word games by the Clintonistas

"Professor" is a common term at university that covers all, as in adjuncts, visiting, etc - they are ALL called professor.

How low will the Hillarites sink in trying to dig up dirt on a genuine, smart guy? Is it because their own candidate is so lacking in that area?

[depakid]

120. Thank you

Sometimes, this shit just gets absurd....