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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 01:07 PM
Original message
Grown-Up Issue Thread: Health care
This is a thread for a single issue. It's no secret here where I stand and who I support, and it's not a surprise that I believe in knowing where your candidate stands. So everyday that I can, I'll be posting a "Grown-Up Issue Thread" meant to start a civil dialog.

I know where John Edwards stands on Health care, and I would like to know more about where your candidate stands on this important issue. I'm asking nicely, please no attacks here, no sniping at candidates, just information. Let's have a good dialog for the American People, and let's sort out the differences between our candidates.

We have three good candidates, and all I want as a member of Democratic Underground, is to have an opportunity to learn more about all of them.

I'm posting parts of Edwards Health care plan for America, with links to the rest. I'm hoping to see the same from other Duers. Feel free to compare, to analyze, but let's not attack each other. Let's have the great conversations.


UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE THROUGH SHARED RESPONSIBILITY
“We have to stop using words like ‘access to health care’ when we know with certainty those words mean something less than universal care. Who are you willing to leave behind without the care he needs? Which family? Which child? We need a truly universal solution, and we need it now.”
-- John Edwards

The time has come for a universal health care reform that covers everyone, cuts costs, and provides better care. The number of uninsured Americans has risen to 45 million. Families with insurance face rapidly rising premiums and risk losing coverage when they need it most. Individuals and small businesses often face much higher premiums and sometimes cannot get coverage at any price. Our
health care system is the most expensive in the world, yet the results are often disappointing.

Today, John Edwards released his plan to strengthen America’s health care system and insure all Americans by 2012. His plan is based on the principle of shared responsibility: businesses, families, and governments must each do their part to achieve universal health coverage and a better health care system for all of us. His reforms will also make health care more affordable and rational.

<snip>

(1) Help Doctors Deliver the Best Care. Despite having some of the best doctors, nurses, and hospitals in the world, Americans are treated appropriately in doctors’ offices only about 55 percent of the time. Nearly a third of patients seeking treatment experience medical mistakes, medication errors, or inaccurate or delayed lab results.

To help doctors, hospitals, clinics and plans to improve the quality of health care, Edwards will:

Promote Evidence-Based Medicine: Effective new treatments can take years to be widely adopted. For example, many patients do not receive beta blockers after heart attacks even though they are cheap and highly effective. Similarly, doctors sometimes prescribe name-brand drugs despite the availability of equally effective, less expensive generic drugs.

Disseminate Objective Information on Medical Advances: Edwards will establish a nonprofit or public organization – possibly within the Institute of Medicine – to research the best methods of providing care, drawing upon data from Medicare and the Health Care Markets and medical experts from across the nation.

Help Doctors Implement New Advances: Edwards will support new technologies, such as handheld devices and electronic medical records, to give doctors the latest information at their fingertips.

Improve the Health Care Delivery System: Edwards will develop partnerships among academic medical centers, Medicare, and other federal agencies to make sure high-quality medicine is practiced everywhere. Improving quality is an important key to making universal health care affordable in the long run.

Pioneer New Ways to Pay for Health Care: Our health care system is predominantly fee-forservice: providers are paid for each treatment, regardless of its necessity or quality. For example, a hospital that botches a surgery is often paid for the error and then paid again to fix it. Our system should pay doctors for results, encouraging better, more efficient care. Under Edwards’ plan,
Medicare and the Health Care Markets will lead the way, paying higher rates to plans and providers that provide the very best care, lowering premiums for high-quality plans, and penalizing plans that fail to meet critical, easily quantifiable goals such as childhood immunization rates.

Prevent Medical Errors: At least 100,000 patients die each year due to medical errors, according to the Institute of Medicine. Many other errors seriously injure patients and add to health care costs. Edwards will support public-private collaborations to reorganize patient care, improve internal communications, reduce errors through electronic prescribing, and establish basic quality benchmarks.

(2) Invest in Preventive Care and Health. Study after study shows that primary and preventive care greatly reduces future health care costs, as well as increasing patients’ health, but our health care system is focused on treating diseases, not preventing them. Insurance companies have little incentive to bear these costs. As a result, many people do not receive preventive care such as tests and immunizations. Other Americans suffer from preventable, chronic conditions that can lead to complications and disability. Edwards will help Health Care Markets lead the effort to realign incentives in the health care system that reward healthier outcomes and lower costs.

Promote Preventive Care: Health Care Markets will offer primary and preventive services at little or no cost. Incentives like lower premiums will reward individuals who schedule free physicals and enroll in healthy living programs. Edwards will also support community efforts to improve health, such as safe streets, walking and biking trails, safe and well-equipped parks, and physical education programs for children.

Improve the Treatment of Chronic Diseases: When chronic diseases are not routinely treated, they can cause emergencies that threaten patients’ health while raising costs. Health Care Markets will encourage plans to monitor patients’ health to keep them out of the emergency room. For example, plans can pay for nutritional counseling for diabetic patients to help them make healthy choices and control their blood sugar levels.

(3) Empower Patients through Transparency. Finding reliable information comparing doctors and hospitals on price and performance is harder than finding it for a new car. Edwards will create a “Consumer Reports” for health care, a universal and easy-to-use report card to help Americans evaluate hospitals’ effectiveness in treating injuries and diseases. Informed patients will make better choices and drive health care providers to offer better services for lower costs.

(4) Reduce Health Disparities. People of color are more likely to be diagnosed with cancer and less likely to receive timely and effective treatment. Children of African-American mothers are twice as likely to die within their first year. In California, low-income minority neighborhoods have one-third as many doctors, as a share of their population, than other neighborhoods do. Edwards will support medical research into disparities, reduce the pollutions and toxins that disproportionately harm communities of colors, and support translation services to address language barriers. By helping all Americans get insurance, Edwards will also address disparities in health caused by disparities in insurance.

(5) Improve Productivity with Information Technology. Health care administration costs more than $1,000 per American. It may be the fastest growing part of health care costs.

Adopt Electronic Medical Records: Many insurers and hospitals still rely on cumbersome paper systems and incompatible computer systems. The outdated “paper chase” causes tragic errors when doctors don't have access to patient information or misread handwritten charts. It creates needless administrative waste recreating and transporting medical papers, performing duplicative testing, and claiming insurance benefits. Edwards will support the implementation of health information technology while ensuring that patients’ privacy rights are protected. Savings from electronic records could be as great as $160 billion a year, according to a RAND study.

Support Local Infrastructure: Edwards will provide the resources hospitals need to implement information systems that improve patient safety and hospital efficiency. Steps include:

Adopting automated medication dispensers that can quickly and accurately fill prescriptions, freeing pharmacists to work more with patients and reducing the risk of prescription errors.

Developing systems to promote patient-doctor communication, such as email and group consultations and support groups for individuals suffering from the same disorder.

Creating computerized physician order entry to eliminate lost paperwork and illegible writing.

Developing computerized patient reminder systems to improve compliance with treatments, such as automatic phone calls home to remind patients to take needed medication to help keep them healthy and out of the hospital.

Using handheld devices to allow hospital staff to communicate results directly to physicians, instead of wasting time trying to find a doctor with urgent information.

(6) Protect Patients against Dangerous Medicines. Recent drug recalls such as Vioxx have raised concerns about drug safety. Edwards will restrict direct-to-consumer advertising for new drugs to ensure that consumers are not misled about the potential dangers of newly marketed drugs and strengthen the Food and Drug Administration’s ability to monitor new drugs after they reach the marketplace. He will also ensure that researchers evaluating medical devices and drugs are truly independent.


"So this is a smart, serious proposal. It addresses both the problem of the uninsured and the waste and inefficiency of our fragmented insurance system. And every candidate should be pressed to come up with something comparable."
Paul Krugman
The New York Times

"More than any of the presidential candidates, John Edwards has come up with a specific and plausible plan that provides for health care coverage for all Americans."
Nicholas Kristof
The New York Times

"While health care for all is now a popular slogan, Edwards is the only candidate offering a plan that would actually get to universal coverage."
-- Karen Tumulty
Time Magazine

"John Edwards has made a serious and thoughtful proposal to address the growing health care crisis. His innovative plan offers practical steps to lower the high cost of health care, improve the quality of care and provide coverage for all Americans."
-- Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (MA)


So take a look if you'd like, and feel free to comment, and ask questions. I'm no expert, I just believe in knowing your candidates platform. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm a realist, so I completely expert this post to drop like a stone because it's not funny, it's not mean, and let's face it, issues aren't very glamorous. But please, let's keep this civil, and let's try to learn something together.

Much more here-
http://www.johnedwards.com/issues/health-care/





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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. John Edwards should prosecute the health insurance cartels for anti-trust violations
As should any Democratic President. That would make premiums a lot more affordable.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. That's a good point,
I sure wish I knew more about that. I'm going to look into it, and do some reading. Thanks for the post.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. k
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I don't know a whole lot about anti-trust legislation either
But I do know that there's a lot of room for interpretation in terms of when to prosecute and when not to prosecute.

Health insurance basically functions as a cartel, a small amount of firms control the entire industry and informally collaborate to keep prices artificially high. If they were formally collaborating they would have to be prosecuted, informal collaboration is a gray area.

If the insurance industry were actually competitive it would be forced to do everything possible to be efficient and affordable or it would go out of business. Economists love competitive markets, because they pretty much function according to the simple supply and demand curves that they have on paper.

If there were a way to make health insurance perfectly competitive I think that would be the best way to go, and people who still can't afford it should have their coverage paid for by the government.

Of course I don't know if anybody has figured out a solution to make that happen. I'd say single payer is the best solution we've figured out thus far, but I still think that there may be better solutions out there that we haven't thought of.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Thanks for the info.
And I would love single payer. One of the reasons I support Edwards is because I've been told by people much smarter than myself, that this plan can lead to single payer.

Again, thanks for the reply.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I've heard this too
I like what he says about making the paperwork easier for the docs and everyone. I'm on the Board of Directors of a non-profit health group, and the docs are always complaining about the amount of paperwork that must be done--and re-done. Something as simple as standardizing the codes for ailments and treatments that must be put on all claim forms would be enormously helpful.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
5. thank you for starting a thread about an issue that is dear to my heart
My candidate, Dennis Kucinich, had the health care plan I endorsed. I will be interested in reading the answers from Clinton and Obama supporters. I'm especially interested in the involvement of insurance companies in all the candidate's plans. My doctor uses cutting edge technology in a holistic manner to treat her patients, and many insurance companies refuse to pay for her services because they say they are "experimental" even though they have been tried and proven. The insurance companies also interfere with her right to prescribe certain drugs. I'm not talking prescribing name brand over generic-I'm talking about her wanting to prescribe a certain drug because another one would negatively interact with other medicines the patient was taking. The insurance company would only pay for the drug that would have given the patient a negative reaction with her other meds, and this isn't right.

My other concern is my ability to pay. My husband is disabled, NOT on Medicaid or Medicare, and we pay all his expenses out of pocket. I can't afford to pay for health insurance for myself, but if I'm forced to, it means we either don't pay rent or don't eat that month. I fear any plan that basically forces folks to buy from insurance companies, because, just like when they mandated car insurance, the rates will go up.

How does Edwards address these specific concerns? I hope other posters will answer for Clinton and Obama.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I'm learning, but one thing I know, I don't have all the answers yet.
All I can do is keep reading. There are many people here who know more about this issue than I do, and I'm hoping they check in. What I will do until then, is keep reading, and try to figure it out for myself.

And yes, I would love the other campaigns to check in here. I want to learn.
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zalinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. I am not an expert on the plans, but
I have heard Edwards talk some about alternative medicine, and he is for some of it, what that will mean when Congress gets a hold of the plan is something else. He thinks doctors should have the last say in medical treatment, period. Insurance companies would not be able to interfere with treatment.

As far as the insurance goes. My understanding is that low income would get the insurance for free, others would "buy" insurance but at a greatly reduced cost when going with a public plan. The private insurance agencies can set their own price structures. Since he has been involved as a lawyer, consumer and politician with the health industry, I'm sure that he will listen to any concerns that might crop up with the plan concerning price.

zalinda
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Thanks zalinda, that is my understanding too.
I also like what he has to say about mental health.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. As I understand HR676, it *forces* everyone to be covered, also.
"Everyone in, nobody out", is the motto of HR676. The idea being that the larger the pool, the more equitable the coverage.

So, the only real difference is in the means to the same end. For HR676, they plan 10 years, yes TEN YEARS for it to be functional!

Edwards' plan targets the same end, but gets there by making a government coverage available to ALL (which would mean you and your disabled husband), so that all insurance companies would be directly in competition with a government, not-for-profit model.

When I first heard what he was talking about, I was disappointed, but the more I learn about it, the smarter I think it is.

1. The biggest obstacle to HR676 is going to be fighting the insurance cartel. With all their billions at their disposal, do you think they're going to "go quietly into that good night"? With HR676, there would be a battle royal right up front, with the outcome far from certain. By allowing them to continue with their games, and competing with a government program, they would have much less opportunity to pull the wool over peoples' eyes.

2. The second obstacle to HR676 is all the people who are happy and satisfied with their current policies, and have no desire to change. They can throw up quite a fuss about what they will "lose", so giving them time to compare what they have with a government program, and not forcing them to change has it's merits. One less battle up front. In time, as they see how well others fare, and that their biggest fears aren't realized in the government program, (and as they see more and more with the same coverage they have getting shafted by the insurance companies for more profit!) more and more will switch over.

I'm seeing the wisdom of doing it this way, and while I empathize with you that you see it as a losing proposition, as I understand it, you would face the same thing with HR676, and I also know Edwards is committed to folks like you and me, and will tweak things that are hurting us.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. Difference is
that HR 676, as I understand it, calls for non-profit insurers, not for profit companies. That's where my hangup is. I'll be hanged if some CEO makes billions on the backs of sick people, which is what is happening right now.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. AFTER 10 years!
Edited on Fri Jan-25-08 03:06 PM by bobbolink
It would take TEN YEARS to get to what you're describing!

As far as I know, Edwards' hasn't given a time line, but .... would it possibly take longer than 10 years?

PLUS, maybe you're not getting the point, but you aren't FORCED to accept the for-profits... you have the choice of a government program.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. No I didn't get it--thanks for clarifying it with me
I'll put it down to having a very bad cold and having trouble reading the computer screen. I could live with Edwards' plan, then.

But I have another question for you--how will Edwards work with Congress to insure his plan gets passed? Does he have backers for his plan in Congress already? I hope so.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Edwards with Congress --- ready for the battle!
Edwards has said repeatedly that right after taking office, he will address a joint session of Congress and tell them they pass a health care bill like he wants by July of '09, or.... OR....

....he will do everything he can to take away their gold-plated Congressional health care!

:evilgrin:

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

I would LOVE having a fighter like that in my corner!!

Oh, and I understand the mucus on the brain stuff, believe me. :hi:

I'm recovering from a bad bout with the flu, and you don't wanna know... really, it's been ugly. (I picked a library computer closest to the restroom....)
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. great!
Now here's another question, if you don't mind (and feel up to it)--I know Edwards was in the Senate. What friendships has he cultivated from that time? Can he rely upon those folks to bring his agenda to the floor? LBJ was a master of this, which is why we got so many Great Society programs passed.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. I plead ignorance! Maybe you can ask this in the Edwards group?
What I DO know is that he keeps saying that he can't do it alone.. that we ALL have to demand it, which is what I've been saying for years now.

When Eleanor Roosevelt would come back from her travels and tell FDR that he needed to do something for some group of trod-on folks, he'd say, "Make me." In other words, get people riled up, get them to demand it, and we'll make it happen.

That's exactly what it takes.

No shortcuts.

No magical leaders.

Just a leader who listens, and who would take our demands and do everything in his power to make it happen.

Personally, I think that matters more than Congressional ties, but what do I know... (You DO know how unpopular FDR was with the powers that be, right? And look what he got done!)

I see Edwards campaign as a movement in the true sense... more like Bobby Kennedy. Not just an effort to get him elected, but a movement to change this country.

Thanks for listening through the mucus... :hi: :hi: :hi:
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. It will, indeed, take us all
but it would be nice to know, for example, if those good Dems Blanche Lincoln and Mark Pryor will be helping President Edwards or hindering him. I can call them both up and raise a ruckus if they don't help.

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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. That's what we'll ALL have to do... raise a ruckus!
We must put them ALL on notice.. they are either behind us, or for the corporations, and we get rid of corporate lackeys!

We have to take that stand.

It makes me tired to think about it, but.... we are all that stand between getting our country back, and letting it deteriorate further.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. Here ya go.... here's an article for you to read!
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. getting ready to go home now
(yes, I've been at work all day and online-you can do this when your job is to answer phones and the phones don't ring!). I'll look at this when I get home. THANKS!
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #38
45. EXACTLY the right thing to say
Edwards is impressing me more and more. Thanks for the link!
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
9. Just as I thought... it's more fun to talk about the horse race-
Than what really effects the lives of all of us. Too sad.

I'm asking again, can someone please tell me what the plans of Obama and Hillary are on these important issues?
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LiberalHeart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
10. This issue alone should be enough to bring people aboard the Edwards bandwagon.
Edwards asking which child, which family we'll leave without health care drives it home. I see no way the Obama and Clinton plans will do the job that needs to be done, and I do not think that negotiating with the insurance companies is the solution. It'll just eat up more valuable time till we get to where we need to be in protecting the health of our people. ALL our people. I'm ready for a fighter to be in WH -- one who fights for us, not one who fights us.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. I would love to see the plans from Hillary and Obama here-
I'm still waiting for one of their supporters to chime in. Both Hillary and Obama have some smart, well informed people here, and I'm hoping they get a chance to see this, so they can respond.

This is not meant to be a fight, but an exchange of ideas. Maybe that's why the tread keeps sinking like a stone.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
14. Is there a funding breakdown somewhere?
Everything I have read so far sounds great --until we get to the funding. From what I know, people will still be purchasing private insurance, though at lower rates, or will be allowed to buy into Medicare.

As always, I worry about companies dropping their health care benefits to current and past employees, and putting the financial burden on the individual. This is a very real worry for people, such as my Mom, who has excellent health benefits (including prescriptions) from a job she retired from.

I have heard Edwards say that his plan would be a step towards the goal single payer healthcare, which I support 100%. But I also have a very serious issue with mandatory insurance and what it would cover/cost. I could get myself a catastrophic policy with a $5000 deductible for $80 a month a few years back -- it did absolutely squat to help me with my regulary medicare care, just helped out if I was hospitalized. There was nothing affordable to help me stay healthy, get healthy, or find out if I had a disease before ending up in a hospital.

I really, really worry about gaps in cost and care in all of the 3 major's plans.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I understand what you're saying-
And that's why I'm hoping to see the other plans here so we can have a fare comparison. I have not found a funding breakdown, but I'm not finished reading yet. I know he plans to pay for some of this with the elimination of the Bushco tax cuts to the wealthy.

This is what I do know, right now I have no ins. and I'd love anything that gives me any help at all. Hell, if I have to go to the doctor it cost me a weeks pay, and that's if I can find one that will see me.

Thanks for the reply.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. Your mom would be able to continue with the plan she has, if she prefers.
That is one of the strengths of Edwards' proposal.... people can keep what they have, or compare it with a public program.
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zalinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. The mandatory part of the plan would only kick in
when most of the country was on some sort of plan already. One of the things that Edwards said was that you could save a ton of money in the health care field by just reducing paper work. If you standardized paper work that would bring the cost down considerably.

As for employers dumping health care, they can opt to put their business in the public health care plan and save a bundle of money, that is probably what most of them will do. I am sure that employers with a small amount of employees would not be expected to buy insurance for them, but those of large companies would be required to.

I do know that Edwards has been crunching the numbers, and sees that his plan is workable for even those who are the poorest. I doubt very much if he will sign something into law which breaks the back of working people.

zalinda
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nancyharris Donating Member (637 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
16. I have read original post
and I cannot find a single aspect of any of the 6 "points" expressed that is not also favored by Obama, Clinton (and Romney for that matter). If there is something noted in the original post that is in opposition to Obama or Clinton's health care policy - please point that part out to me for I do not see it.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. This thread is not for opposition, it's for discussion-
Did you check the link, and read further? I'm looking for the plans of the others, and discussion of this plan. I did not post the whole plan here because it's quite detailed, and that is the reason for the link.

Note, John Edwards did have a plan out first, and I just want to know the others. If the other plans are just like this, then perhaps that is where the answer to your question is.

Again feel free to check the link, and read further.
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nancyharris Donating Member (637 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. If you are "looking for the plans of others"
you have only to go to their websites and click on the links that describe their plans. The plans of the 3 candidates are virtually identical. The only difference is the rhetoric used to described the plans. Go to Obama's website or Clinton's web site (or even Romney's site) and you will find the very same ideas expressed only using different language. All three of the Democratic candidates have rejected (for now) a single-payer government controlled system in favor of a government mandated business and personal purchase of private health insurance.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I'm aware of this-
But I'm trying to bring the conversation here. I want a place where we can talk health care issues today.
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nancyharris Donating Member (637 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. What health care issues
would like to discuss? Do you favor universal single-payer government controlled health care or do you favor government mandated business and personal purchase of health care insurance?
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. I'm not sure-
Which is why I'm asking for information. I know I've been waiting since 94 for something, anything to happen on this.

I want positions, I want links, I want information ion.

And that's all I've been asking for this whole time.
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nancyharris Donating Member (637 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #24
40. Here are some links of other candidates' health plans
Clinton:
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/
Obama:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/
and just for the sake of discussion- Romney:
http://www.mittromney.com/Issues/healthcare

Not much of a difference between these 3 and Edwards.

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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Okay, thank you.
Here's a question, if they are all similar, does it matter who came out with the plan first. And what do you not like about the plans?
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nancyharris Donating Member (637 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. It matters little who came out first with their plan
Edwards ran for the presidency in 2004 and he had a "plan" then as well which was quite similar to his current plan in sentiment but at that time he favored single-payer government controlled health services. One can only guess why he flip flopped on his position.

I think the plans of all 3 Democratic candidates are quite good and even stand a very good chance of being passed into legislation (regardless of which Party wins the White House). Congress has similar legislation in the pipeline already and once Bush is out of office I think it is a done deal.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Thanks for the thoughtful response.
If you don't mind, I'd like to add something. I've changed my mind many times throughout life. I've made one decision, stepped back to look at the overall picture, then made another decision. True, you want someone true to beliefs, but I don't want someone inflexible.

When we use words like flip-flop, we're using a RW word. I find it dangerous when RW words make it into our dialog here. In the future, how bout we just say, changed his/her position?
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nancyharris Donating Member (637 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. I don't think it is a fair assumption
that the expression "flip-flop" is Right-Wing. The very thought of restricting free speech is completely antithetical to all of what the Democratic Party stands for. I do agree that the expression ascribes that the person did not, upon reflection, change their mind but rather did so because of external pressures. It is precisely for that reason I used the term in reference to John Edwards' position on Health Care. I think his change of heart was not do to some reflective contemplation of the problems inherent in a single-payer health care plan but rather understanding the direction of the political winds and easily bending along with it.

If either Romney or McCain are nominated on the Republican side you will undoubtedly hear the expression "flip-flop" used repeatedly (and rightfully) by Democrats.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. But don't you have to ask yourself-
What is possible? I don't know if you can ascribe that to bending with political wind. But I could be wrong.
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nancyharris Donating Member (637 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Perhaps.
One thing is for sure, it will be less possible for a single-payer program to come about once 97% of Americans are covered (via private/public insurance) by implementing any of the Democratic candidates plans. (87% of Americans are currently covered under private/public health insurance plans).
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
27. What part do the mandates play?
When do they kick in? Why does Krugman make such an issue about the mandates when Edwards isn't relying on them for the effectiveness of his plan?

"Once these steps have been taken, requiring all American residents to get insurance."
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. What I think about mandates-
I live in a state where it's mandatory that you have insurance if you want to drive a car, and I can get liability ins. for like 29 bucks a month.

When the law first came out, the ins. industry was up in arms, now everything is cool with them, prices have gone down, and if I run into someone, or they run into me, it's not nearly as big of a deal.

Now, I'm not sure if that compares here, gut it's worked out well for liability ins.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. WOW..... $240 for 6 months here for just basic liability!
Also, remember, that if we get universal single-payer health care, our car insurance will go down, because so much of that is for personal injury!
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. That's a great point bob-
That's why it's good to know all of you smart people at DU!
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
37. Resent Edwards statement on single payer-
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
44. GREAT idea for a thread!
I am a supporter of a single-payer universal health care system. Dennis Kucinich's plan is closest to what my own views on the subject are.

My views are shaped by not only utilizing a state-sponsored health care plan in the past, but also through working in social services with people who needed health care.

Any discussion of reforming the health care system cannot neglect controlling costs and the greed of private for-profit insurance companies. Unless we address this issue, we will still have the same problems we have today.

Here's a good editorial on the subject:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/15/opinion/15woolhandler.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. Thanks nnns, I like single payer too-
And I'm hoping that someday, soon, we can get there. That's one of the things about this plan that I like, it has the potential of leading us there.

It's kind of like wanting pie, but only being able to get vegetables. I'm hoping one day, pie is on the menu, and I think perhaps JRE will one day work out a way for all of us to have pie.

I'm sure that makes no sense.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. I hope you read my post #38, with the article about the Front Door!
John Edwards says upfront that he is going through the front door to single-payer.

He has a different path to get there.

It's a smarter path than HR676, and I not only was a big fan of HR676, but I spent more than a year working tirelessly on it.

So, yes, this is a big deal, and it's very clever of Edwards to go after it this way.

Maybe Kucinich will follow in his footsteps. :)
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #44
50. I hope you read ALL of the posts on this thread, and realize that Edwards is going after
just what you want!

He has a different path to get there, and I think it's a smarter and more realistic path.

Do you realize that HR676 requires TEN YEARS to achieve??

Do you realize the battle it will take to fight the health corporations head on?

REalistically, what do you think will come of that David/Goliath head-on clash?

By putting the for-profits in direct competition with the non-profits, and allowing those who think their coverage is great and will fight to keep it, he both reduces the battle, and makes the greedy corporations compete.

Pretty smart, if you ask me.
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