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Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » September 11 |
spooked911 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-06-07 12:28 AM Original message |
Billiard Balls and Momentum |
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Bolo Boffin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-06-07 01:53 AM Response to Original message |
1. You are not adequated accomadating for the mass of the upper section. n/t |
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dailykoff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-06-07 03:47 AM Response to Reply #1 |
3. Roger that. |
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spooked911 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-06-07 09:18 AM Response to Reply #1 |
5. I did 10% loss and the time is too long for the observed time |
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dailykoff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-06-07 03:47 AM Response to Original message |
2. Not to mention that pancaking was physically impossible. (n/t) |
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spooked911 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-06-07 09:16 AM Response to Reply #2 |
4. well, yeah-- but how else do you explain the official story? |
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dailykoff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-06-07 04:45 PM Response to Reply #4 |
13. You can't without some kind of engineered destruction, |
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William Seger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-06-07 09:36 PM Response to Reply #13 |
15. This should be good |
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spooked911 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-06-07 10:06 PM Response to Reply #15 |
17. the timing was too fast |
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William Seger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-07-07 12:53 AM Response to Reply #17 |
26. Sez who? |
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dailykoff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-07-07 02:44 AM Response to Reply #15 |
28. It is good. |
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William Seger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-07-07 12:33 PM Response to Reply #28 |
35. That's what I suspected |
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dailykoff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-07-07 01:33 PM Response to Reply #35 |
37. Evidently the NIST doesn't think it possible either |
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William Seger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-07-07 03:25 PM Response to Reply #37 |
44. You're not going to "explain" your assertion? |
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dailykoff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-07-07 07:24 PM Response to Reply #44 |
50. It is impossible for a steel frame to behave like unreinforced masonry, |
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William Seger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-07-07 11:37 PM Response to Reply #50 |
52. Fascinating. I what way did it "behave like unreinforced masonry, wood, or concrete"? |
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dailykoff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-15-07 06:19 PM Response to Reply #52 |
122. Concrete and masonry are brittle. Wood is weak. |
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hack89 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-15-07 06:48 PM Response to Reply #122 |
123. But it didn't "shatter" .. |
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dailykoff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-16-07 12:56 AM Response to Reply #123 |
125. See for yourself: |
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hack89 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-16-07 07:36 AM Response to Reply #125 |
126. Do you have a close up? |
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dailykoff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-16-07 09:20 AM Response to Reply #126 |
127. The point is that they're disconnected, like bricks. |
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AZCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-06-07 11:14 AM Response to Original message |
6. Judy Wood clearly doesn't know what she is talking about. |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-06-07 11:23 AM Response to Reply #6 |
7. So are the NIST models |
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AZCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-06-07 11:25 AM Response to Reply #7 |
8. We have discussed that before... |
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spooked911 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-06-07 10:07 PM Response to Reply #6 |
18. Yes, and you've read her whole paper and know the exact flaws, right? |
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AZCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-07-07 06:11 PM Response to Reply #18 |
48. I don't have to. |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-06-07 11:36 AM Response to Original message |
9. You mention the 'piledriver' effect |
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spooked911 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-06-07 10:05 PM Response to Reply #9 |
16. Interesting idea, but since they blew the towers to kingdome come |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-07-07 04:38 PM Response to Reply #16 |
47. They might not have needed a piledriver, |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-07-07 06:56 PM Response to Reply #16 |
49. Actually, I'd like to modify the above post a bit |
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William Seger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-07-07 02:18 PM Response to Reply #9 |
42. "Apparently" |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-08-07 08:24 AM Response to Reply #42 |
53. Just look at the pictures |
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William Seger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-08-07 04:28 PM Response to Reply #53 |
59. Appearances can be deceiving |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-08-07 04:50 PM Response to Reply #59 |
60. The picture you've posted |
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William Seger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-09-07 08:36 AM Response to Reply #60 |
61. Again, appearances can be deceiving |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-09-07 06:55 PM Response to Reply #61 |
73. If the top third of the building |
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William Seger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 12:52 AM Response to Reply #73 |
84. "Pretty evenly" compared to what? |
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tenseconds (237 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-15-07 08:32 PM Response to Reply #59 |
124. Your photograph |
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greyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-09-07 09:06 AM Response to Reply #53 |
62. Do you remember the photos of Condi's stockings? nt |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-09-07 06:34 PM Response to Reply #62 |
71. So? |
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greyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-09-07 10:23 PM Response to Reply #71 |
80. I like that example because it shows that you can change your mind |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-06-07 12:05 PM Response to Original message |
10. Consider this |
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spooked911 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-06-07 10:10 PM Response to Reply #10 |
19. you act as though the lower supporting structure was paper mache |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-07-07 07:04 AM Response to Reply #19 |
29. Consider this |
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dailykoff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-07-07 09:13 AM Response to Reply #29 |
31. Wind loads ARE dynamic. |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-07-07 12:43 PM Response to Reply #31 |
36. I, of couse know that. |
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dailykoff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-07-07 01:39 PM Response to Reply #36 |
39. Now you do. (n/t) |
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spooked911 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-09-07 09:38 AM Response to Reply #29 |
65. my question is |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-09-07 01:13 PM Response to Reply #65 |
67. For a short time I was hopeful you were starting to figure it out |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-09-07 02:09 PM Response to Reply #29 |
68. The strength of the floor support |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-09-07 06:41 PM Response to Reply #68 |
72. You're missing the point |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-09-07 07:02 PM Response to Reply #72 |
74. Floors 9, 41, 42, 75, 76, 77 and 107 - 110 |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 09:48 PM Response to Reply #74 |
118. OK, there were 6 mechanical floors below the impact, not 4. |
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Make7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-09-07 08:30 PM Response to Reply #72 |
78. There were actually eight mechanical floors. 7, 8, 41, 42, 75, 76, 108, and 109. |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-09-07 08:39 PM Response to Reply #78 |
79. Thanks for the correction (n/t) |
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MervinFerd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-06-07 03:12 PM Response to Original message |
11. "High energy demolition"???? HOW MUCH explosive are we talking? |
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spooked911 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-06-07 10:13 PM Response to Reply #11 |
21. you seem to forget the building was incredibly strong steel welded |
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William Seger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-07-07 01:06 AM Response to Reply #21 |
27. Buildings,,, |
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dailykoff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-07-07 09:16 AM Response to Reply #27 |
32. So who lifted the buildings 600 feet in the air? |
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William Seger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-07-07 12:26 PM Response to Reply #32 |
34. Mostly, those construction cranes |
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dailykoff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-07-07 01:38 PM Response to Reply #34 |
38. I see. |
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William Seger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-07-07 01:57 PM Response to Reply #38 |
40. Answer the question, then we'll proceed with the argument |
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dailykoff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-07-07 02:01 PM Response to Reply #40 |
41. Answer: nobody lifted the towers 600 feet in the air. (n/t) |
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William Seger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-07-07 02:22 PM Response to Reply #41 |
43. So, your answer is... |
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spooked911 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-09-07 09:37 AM Response to Reply #43 |
64. the question is |
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William Seger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-09-07 12:49 PM Response to Reply #64 |
66. Answers |
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William Seger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-07-07 03:26 PM Response to Reply #41 |
45. Oh, well, it was just a thought experiment |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-07-07 07:30 PM Response to Reply #11 |
51. Zero according to the OCTers |
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AlienSpaceBat (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-06-07 03:23 PM Response to Original message |
12. My take on this |
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spooked911 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-06-07 10:11 PM Response to Reply #12 |
20. you act as though the lower supporting structure was paper mache |
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AlienSpaceBat (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-07-07 04:11 PM Response to Reply #20 |
46. No I don't !! |
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spooked911 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-23-07 11:16 AM Response to Reply #46 |
131. Okay, I understand. Here are my thoughts on the initiation of the destruction... |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-09-07 02:36 PM Response to Reply #12 |
69. Two questions |
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AlienSpaceBat (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-14-07 04:48 PM Response to Reply #69 |
119. No I didn't |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-14-07 05:21 PM Response to Reply #119 |
120. Did you know that Floor 80 was special? |
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AlienSpaceBat (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-15-07 06:12 PM Response to Reply #120 |
121. I wasn't trying to factor in that kind of element |
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William Seger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-06-07 07:07 PM Response to Original message |
14. Invalid assumption |
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spooked911 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-06-07 10:20 PM Response to Reply #14 |
22. If I assume mass is constant, then momentum is proportional to velocity |
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William Seger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-06-07 11:08 PM Response to Reply #22 |
24. Huh? |
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freedom fighter jh (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-06-07 10:41 PM Response to Reply #14 |
23. How do you calculate the momentum transferred? |
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William Seger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-07-07 12:49 AM Response to Reply #23 |
25. It was inelastic, by definition |
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freedom fighter jh (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-07-07 09:13 AM Response to Reply #25 |
30. Right. You don't know just how elastic or inelastic the collisions were. |
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William Seger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-07-07 12:22 PM Response to Reply #30 |
33. Bullshit |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-08-07 08:26 AM Response to Reply #33 |
54. Why do you have to continue |
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William Seger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-08-07 02:34 PM Response to Reply #54 |
57. Because I am your enemy |
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greyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-09-07 09:14 AM Response to Reply #54 |
63. Your post is untrue. |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-09-07 06:28 PM Response to Reply #63 |
70. I will not discuss issues with people |
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greyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-09-07 10:26 PM Response to Reply #70 |
81. You personally attacked him. |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-09-07 10:35 PM Response to Reply #81 |
83. Carlin doesn't |
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greyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 12:53 AM Response to Reply #83 |
85. Yeah, Carlin does, but in this case, Seger did not. You did. |
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Grateful for Hope (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 01:15 AM Response to Reply #85 |
86. Maybe you OCT'ers would be more respected |
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Grateful for Hope (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 01:32 AM Response to Reply #86 |
88. Please see response # 87 |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 01:51 AM Response to Reply #86 |
90. Deleted message |
AZCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 03:15 AM Response to Reply #86 |
91. "Tag Team" effort? Please define this for me. |
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greyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 03:37 AM Response to Reply #91 |
93. You know, like post 86. |
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AZCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 03:40 AM Response to Reply #93 |
94. ? |
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Bolo Boffin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 03:45 AM Response to Reply #94 |
95. Hope 2006 "tag-teamed" when she was decrying "tag-teaming". |
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AZCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 03:49 AM Response to Reply #95 |
96. Oh - duh. |
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Bolo Boffin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 03:54 AM Response to Reply #96 |
98. I guess that's tag-teaming. |
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greyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 04:02 AM Response to Reply #96 |
101. Well, we can't rule out that they define it differently than we do. ;) |
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AZCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 04:11 AM Response to Reply #101 |
108. Hopefully not that long. |
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Kingshakabobo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 03:53 AM Response to Reply #94 |
97. She jumped in the middle of an argument and took up sides.... |
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greyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 04:00 AM Response to Reply #97 |
99. but provided zero persuasive argument. It was no help at all, and only changed the subject. |
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AZCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 04:01 AM Response to Reply #99 |
100. I must admit I've never seen that. |
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greyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 04:05 AM Response to Reply #100 |
104. Neither have I. |
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AZCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 04:06 AM Response to Reply #104 |
105. Well don't let Vince McMahon (sp?) see your post. |
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AZCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 04:02 AM Response to Reply #97 |
102. But we ALL do that! |
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Kingshakabobo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 04:07 AM Response to Reply #102 |
106. That's the point! We do, but we don't cry "tag team"........n/t |
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AZCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 04:10 AM Response to Reply #106 |
107. No, we don't, but I'm waiting to see if that's the definition that Hope2006 uses. |
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Bolo Boffin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 01:00 PM Response to Reply #107 |
112. Hope has responded! |
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Grateful for Hope (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 01:02 PM Response to Reply #112 |
113. au contraire |
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Bolo Boffin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 01:30 AM Response to Reply #85 |
87. Maybe CTer's would be respected... |
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greyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 01:43 AM Response to Reply #87 |
89. That's the triple truth, Ruth. |
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William Seger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 03:17 AM Response to Reply #87 |
92. LMAO ! |
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Kingshakabobo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 04:03 AM Response to Reply #92 |
103. There seems to be a lot of that going on around here...... |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 05:17 AM Response to Reply #85 |
109. For example, It is one thing to say |
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Grateful for Hope (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 06:44 AM Response to Reply #109 |
110. Exactly right |
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greyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 09:44 AM Response to Reply #109 |
111. Not all examples are so obvious, but maybe we're getting somewhere. |
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freedom fighter jh (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 01:32 PM Response to Reply #63 |
114. Speaking as the target of that attack . . . |
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greyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 03:44 PM Response to Reply #114 |
115. You can't, because you weren't the target. Your statement was. |
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William Seger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 04:09 PM Response to Reply #114 |
117. Well, you misunderstood |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-08-07 08:34 AM Response to Reply #25 |
55. You once again prove |
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Bolo Boffin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-08-07 01:00 PM Response to Reply #55 |
56. Which DoYouEverWonder post should we believe? |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-09-07 07:05 PM Response to Reply #56 |
75. Well, if you want to take things out of context |
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Bolo Boffin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-09-07 07:19 PM Response to Reply #75 |
76. I provided links to all necessary posts. |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-09-07 07:57 PM Response to Reply #76 |
77. The comment about the corners |
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Bolo Boffin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-09-07 10:29 PM Response to Reply #77 |
82. The comment about the corners is your theory, too. |
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William Seger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-08-07 03:01 PM Response to Reply #55 |
58. "Deeply flawed" logic? |
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TheWraith (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jan-10-07 03:49 PM Response to Original message |
116. The upper floors certainly wouldn't pause on each lower floor. That's just wrong. |
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CB_Brooklyn (162 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-23-07 12:11 AM Response to Original message |
128. Massive Energy Releases |
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spooked911 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-23-07 08:00 AM Response to Reply #128 |
129. Welcome to DU, CB! |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-23-07 08:53 AM Response to Reply #128 |
130. Don't you know that skyscrapers made of steel |
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William Seger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jan-23-07 11:31 AM Response to Reply #128 |
132. Absolutely, yes, it was a "massive energy release" |
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CB_Brooklyn (162 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-25-07 11:49 PM Response to Reply #132 |
133. It turned to powder from the top down |
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DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Sun May 26th 2024, 09:44 PM Response to Original message |
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Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » September 11 |
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