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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 03:45 PM
Original message
Heroic Consequences
Heroic Consequences

Questions to ask yourself before going in defense of others

By David Kenik

When we holster up, an astounding emotional transformation often occurs: We become empowered. We feel defended, secure--we almost feel immortal. It's as if the firearm we carry imparts strength and shielding approaching superhero proportions.

<snip>

While teaching firearms students, I have made it a point to ask them if they had similar views either now or when they first started to carry. A vast majority of them did. I also learned that, like me, most of them did not think of the potential consequences. We imagine that when hearing a woman scream, we would rush into the alley and force the attacker to stop with our commanding voice and drawn gun. Or we would see ourselves grabbing our gun when we hear the crashing of our front door, stopping the invading bad guys in their tracks. It was as if possession of a firearm were akin to donning Superman's suit.

<snip>

The reality of gunfights is much darker than those heroic musings. Realize that you may get shot yourself, resulting in serious injury or death. You may be prosecuted and go to prison, even if you believe you were correct in your actions. And, win or lose, it may cost you a fortune to defend yourself in court.

<snip>

The most eloquent phrasing of these concerns came from Michael de Bethencourt of Northeastern Tactical Schools. He asks his students, "Are you willing to give up your life, freedom, health and/or wealth for a complete stranger?"

<more>

http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_training/hero_110207/



There is a lot more in the article, including a brief after-publication piece on the Virginia Tech shooting. Several paragraphs include the "hero" complex that some people develop after strapping on iron, and examples and hypotheticals that dash that complex. Reality check, as it were.

This is from a concealed-pistol-carrying "gun nut", writing in a magazine devoted to handguns. Those who think that gun owners in general and concealed-carry citizens in particular are blood-thirsty trigger-happy Rambo-types should perhaps get some perspective.
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. Many years ago, I found myself in a serious jam.
Returning from a fishing trip, I entered a convenience store in west Houston one night.

Right away, 6 or 7 really fucked up punkers rushed in and started snatching stuff off of the shelves.

So the idiot clerk ran out the door and LOCKED IT!!

I was all by myself with those crazy fuckers, who were screaming that they were going to kill me if he didn't open the door.

Unsettling, to say the least.

All I had was a wine bottle that I had broken on a shelf.

I looked out the window at our van parked out front and there stood my wife, holding a 9mm carbine which had been given to me earlier that day.

So I told them to take a peek outside.

Told them that they could give it a try, but none of them would leave that place alive. They all got down on the floor. A few of them actually started crying.

So the clerk let me out and we waited there until the cops arrived.

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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. if you posted this in GD
you'd be thrashed for not ramming the candy bar rack through the door so the disadvantaged youths could get out.

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JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. Glad it worked out, but ...
these days, your wife might get into some trouble for "brandishing", scaring those poor unfortunate thugs.

She'd probably beat the charge, but only after giving big bucks to a lawyer.



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tularetom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. Excellent article - we went through this with my mom in her 70's
One of her friends was mugged and spent a month in the hospital and she was all set to apply for a concealed carry permit. She went so far as to get instructions but knowing her personality, we all could see no good coming from her running around with a handgun concealed or not. She had a volatile temper and was often inclined to act before thinking. Plus she suffered from glaucoma which although treatable definitely limited her peripheral vision. She should not have been driving a car either but it took ten more years to make her quit doing that. She drove until the month before she died.

Finally my dad was able to make her see the negative consequences of defending herself with a handgun. She grumbled for awhile but I think she knew (and feared) what she might do.
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pipoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. Pretty good article
though I have considered nearly every point, many have not.

I first began carrying concealed 15+ years ago as part of my job. I think the potential for having to use my gun being in the front of my mind for all of those years made me consider nearly every scenario which could arise (as opposed to carrying for years with the chances being slim).

I decided long ago that unless my life, the life of a family member or friend, a co-worker or a client's life was in jeopardy I would not use my gun, instead I would be the best witness I possibly could be.

No matter what your reason for shooting somebody is, there is absolutely NOTHING good going to come from it...ever (beyond saving your own life).
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mvccd1000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Perhaps a wise choice.
I've read the thought somewhere that in any encounter where you draw a weapon, the BEST result you can hope for is to come away with exactly what you had before. Every other possible outcome else is downhill from there.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-31-07 05:53 AM
Response to Original message
5. For me it was the feeling of the heavy burden of responsibility when carrying



Nothing even remotely like immortality.
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Turnagain Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. The immortality gun
I've carried various types and calibers of pistols for going on 40 years. Revolvers, autos, derringers, and even considered a cap and ball just to maintain 'compliance'. Never found one that made me feel immortal.
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sir pball Donating Member (425 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
8. "Ethics from the Barrel of a Gun"
Edited on Tue Jan-01-08 09:35 AM by sir pball
By noted hacker Eric S. Raymond, an excellent read. I've found it to be quite true, both in the way I feel about carrying and the way a lot of others seem to feel about it.


There is nothing like having your finger on the trigger of a gun to reveal who you really are. Life or death in one twitch — ultimate decision, with the ultimate price for carelessness or bad choices.

<snip>

As such, there are lessons both merciless and priceless to be learned from bearing arms — lessons which are not merely instructive to the intellect but transformative of one's whole emotional, reflexive, and moral character.

The first and most important of these lessons is this: it all comes down to you.

No one's finger is on the trigger but your own. All the talk-talk in your head, all the emotions in your heart, all the experiences of your past — these things may inform your choice, but they can't move your finger. All the socialization and rationalization and justification in the world, all the approval or disapproval of your neighbors — none of these things can pull the trigger either. They can change how you feel about the choice, but only you can actually make the choice. Only you. Only here. Only now. Fire, or not?

A second is this: never count on being able to undo your choices.

If you shoot someone through the heart, dead is dead. You can't take it back. There are no do-overs. Real choice is like that; you make it, you live with it — or die with it.

A third lesson is this: the universe doesn't care about motives.

If your gun has an accidental discharge while pointed an unsafe direction, the bullet will kill just as dead as if you had been aiming the shot. I didn't mean to may persuade others that you are less likely to repeat a behavior, but it won't bring a corpse back to life.

<snip>

Too many of us have come to believe ourselves incapable of this discipline. We fall prey to the sick belief that we are all psychopaths or incompetents under the skin. We have been taught to imagine ourselves armed only as villains, doomed to succumb to our own worst nature and kill a loved one in a moment of carelessness or rage. Or to end our days holed up in a mall listening to police bullhorns as some SWAT sniper draws a bead...

<snip>

This is the final ethical lesson of bearing arms: that right choices are possible, and the ordinary judgement of ordinary (wo)men is sufficient to make them.


ed. formatting
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. I dig ESR
Funny how many Free Software people are gun-nuts...
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sir pball Donating Member (425 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. I think
it's because they understand the concept of guns-as-tools, i.e. a gun will only do what the person handling it wants it to do. Same way software is a tool...a lot of them are surprisingly unopposed to commercial software for people who find it suits their needs better than OSS, the RMS frothing zealots are really only a small minority.

That and a healthy libertarian streak..
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Indy Lurker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Gun Safety


"
There is nothing like having your finger on the trigger of a gun to reveal who you really are. Life or death in one twitch — ultimate decision, with the ultimate price for carelessness or bad choices."


****************

Hopefully if your finger is on the trigger you have already made the decision to shoot.
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sir pball Donating Member (425 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. I wouldn't say so
Finger off until the threat is assessed and the decision is made to potentially shoot...at that point I would have my finger on the trigger to be ready at the drop of a hat, I wouldn't want to even risk the split-second delay of having to move from the guard to the trigger. It's a strictly literal interpretation of Rule 1 I guess, finger off the trigger until I'm READY to shoot - but that doesn't mean I 100% intend to do it.

Thankfully I've never been in that situation.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-20-08 05:35 AM
Response to Original message
12. kick for the current, post NIU debate n/t
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jmg257 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
15. I recommend a couple of Ayoob's early books - WELL worth the read.
Especially: In the Gravest Extreme: The Role of the Firearm in Personal Protection.
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L1A1Rocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-27-08 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Very good author!!
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