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An NRA-Friendly Addition to Senate's 'Wedge-Issue June'

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Bob Geiger Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 08:49 AM
Original message
An NRA-Friendly Addition to Senate's 'Wedge-Issue June'
Flying under the radar with all the immigration hubbub in the Senate last week was a charming piece of legislation by Senator George Allen (R-VA) that would allow people licensed to carry a concealed weapon in one state to enjoy the same privilege anywhere else in the country.

S. 3275, which is cosponsored by 12 Senators -- all Republicans, except for GOP-lite Democrat Ben Nelson of Nebraska -- would make it a law that "… nonresidents of a State may carry concealed firearms in the State" if they are permitted to carry their gun elsewhere. Allen's measure is a companion bill to H.R. 4547, introduced in the House of Representatives in December for the same purpose.

"The bill would simply require States to recognize each other's concealed carry permits and licenses, just as they recognize drivers' licenses," said Allen in introducing his bill last week, proclaiming that his legislation would "… increase the safety of the many law-abiding Americans who have chosen to carry a firearm for protection against criminal attack."

Yeah, that's what we want: States that had the bad judgment to overwhelming vote for George W. Bush again in 2004 sending their heavily-armed, backwoods brethren to New York City, Chicago and San Francisco. Sounds like a real smart idea and, of course, federal legislation would then make it all but impossible for the more enlightened states to keep from being turned into 1870s Deadwood.

And analyzing what might be behind this only confirms the other shoe that you know is going to drop.

With Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-TN) pumping up the Senate calendar for "Wedge-Issue June" -- gay marriage is on tap for next week followed by the flag-burning amendment -- it probably seems like a good time to get the gun-toting types to rally behind a nice divisive firearms bill before the midterm elections.

And, of course, you just know that National Rifle Association (NRA) money is lurking somewhere in the shadows on this story.

Taking a look at all donations made by the NRA of America Political Victory Fund shows that -- surprise! -- four of the top ten Senate recipients of NRA largesse in the last six years are sponsoring this legislation.



Indeed, of the $1.6 million in donations made to Senators or Senate candidates from this particular NRA PAC, almost $400,000, or an astounding 26 percent of the money, went to just nine of the Republicans authoring or cosponsoring the Allen bill. And this, just one facet of NRA contributions, is undoubtedly just the tip of the iceberg.

In a laughable attempt to protect the states that do not readily allow their citizens to walk the streets packing heat, the House bill's language stipulates that the gun holder may not, in such a state "…carry a concealed firearm in a police station, in a public detention facility, in a courthouse, in a public polling place, at a meeting of a State, county, or municipal governing body, in a school, at a professional or school athletic event not related to firearms, in a portion of an establishment licensed by the State to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, or inside the sterile or passenger area of an airport."

Isn't it nice to know that, with those restrictions in place, one of these folks will have to wait outside the bar to shoot you?

And one sure-fire way to tell that a U.S. Senator isn't particularly proud of putting their name to a piece of legislation is if there's no mention of it in the press-release section of their official web site. The bill's primary sponsor, Senator Allen, doesn’t mention it. And none of the other 12 sponsors of the legislation say one word about their involvement with the bill in their press releases.

Lest you think the concealed-weapon measure is too insignificant for Senators to include in their announcements, it's important to understand that members of Congress use every opportunity to brag about their legislative feats -- unless they truly want them to pass under cover of darkness. While there's no mention of S. 3275 on John Sununu's (R-NH) web site, he's proud to announce "Sununu backs legislation to eliminate ethanol import tariff."

Michael Crapo and Larry Craig, both Republicans from Idaho, won’t mention the gun bill but grandly announce "Crapo Introduces Forest Service Partnership Bill" and "Craig Introduces Specialty Crop Bill."

Bottom line: This legislation is payback to the NRA and it's so obvious, and such bad public policy, that the Senators don’t even bother to announce it to constituents, many of whom might even be NRA members.

With the NRA making the House's H.R. 4547, sponsored by Representatives Cliff Stearns of Florida and Rick Boucher of Virginia, a legislative and "grassroots activism" priority, look for the bill to pass quickly through the House Judiciary Committee and for the same to happen with the Senate's version.

After all, Bill Frist won't want June to end without throwing another log on the old wedge-issue fire.

You can reach Bob Geiger at [email protected] and read more from him at Democrats.com.
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primative1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. Wonderful ...
So these champions of states rights are now saying they dont exist?
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realisticphish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
2. I'm in the middle on CCW laws
but holy shit. This is unacceptable, regardless of what side you're on.

So what, if you're from Las Vegas, you can gamble legally in Chicago?
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57_TomCat Donating Member (527 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-03-06 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. An interesting dilimma...
I can not drive my car on city streets in Chicago without a valid drivers license. As long as I have one from whatever state I reside in I am good to go. Of course both Illinois and whatever state I would be from both have a license program in place.

Now lets look at CCW. Illinois prohibits the practice but say Alabama does not. Is it fair to restrict the Alabama citizen from practicing his privilege in Chicago? I think yes it is. But then we get into other states rights issues. Marriage for example. That married gay couple down the street in Boston is not recognized in Chicago either. Seems we have a situation where the states are a bit mixed up since all states recognize marriage. Full faith and credit seems to be a "ala carte" situation.

We live in interesting times. :)


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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. Bear in mind that some states
let pretty much every nutcase who wants to carry condealed weapons.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
hydrashok75 Donating Member (843 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-03-06 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Too bad they deleted the subthread...
...where I showed that that simply isn't true, merely by linking the operative Florida law.

Perhaps if we can all speak nicely to each other, that won't happen again.
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ManiacJoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-03-06 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. Are we supposed to assume that
by "nutcase" you mean "common citizen"? As everyone knows, a literal interpretation would result in a clear violation of fed laws and the laws of probably every state since crazy people are not allowed to even possess guns, let alone carry them in public.
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-04-06 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Yeah, Vermont...
where it is legal to carry a gun openly or concealed, for any lawful purpose, including self-defense, without a permit.

All other states except Alaska require licensure. Only two states have no CCW provisions.
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adwon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-02-06 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
4. Questionable constitutionality
The fundamental problem is that the requirements of gun ownership is traditionally a state function. While there have been some federal requirements, these are expressly tied to the Commerce Clause and require real evidence on the part of Congress to survive a challenge. Congress will have to show that crime against tourists is a serious economic problem and that the decision to expand the scope of the concealed weapons laws has a rational basis. The latter will easily pass, if only because the government usually wins on rational basis. The real problem is the showing of evidence. They can't use aggregate statistics on the issue because, very ironically, Rehnquist barred their use in Lopez. If they claim some economic impact, they have to prove it. This situation just seems to fall under Lopez, which would be a blow to its constitutionality.
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57_TomCat Donating Member (527 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-03-06 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
7. A similar US Federal law is already in effect...
the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act (LEOSA) was signed into law two years ago allowing for the carrying of concealed firearms throughout the country without regard to the individual states that might not have passed a concealed carry law.

This law applies to law enforcement officers and retired law enforcement officers. The text of the legislation has several restrictions as to who can carry and what documents that have to be carried when armed.

I believe this current legislation is an attempt to build on the LEOSA as a model and to operate under the full faith and credit clause of the constitution. Currently I believe only 3 states prohibit CCW in all forms. Those states now allow limited CCW to off duty police officers from around the country based on the LEOSA. It does not matter why the off duty cop with NO jurisdiction is in the other state. Vacation, day trip, visiting sick friends or relatives, whatever; only that they are LE or retired LE under the law. I for one hope it passes. The CCW situation in this country has been hugely successful overall and the fear mongering of many anti CCW proponents have not panned out. I also do not like the fact that cops get special dispensation when off duty and out of their jurisdiction. This is a fairness issue and should pass.

I imagine that an argument can be made either way. Since so many states already have CCW and they have reciprocity agreements with other states I see no problem with codifying a national standard. We will see.

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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-03-06 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
8. As a gun owner with a GA CCW permit, it sure would be handy....


... but I worry about the constitutionality of such a law. I suppose the pro side is arguing that it is analogous to car licenses or marriage licenses. I'll let the legal scholars debate those fine points.




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ManiacJoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-03-06 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. At a quick glance,
this would seem to easily fall under Article 4 Section 1 (full faith and credit) of the US Constitution. However, one should note that this is NOT why every state recognizes the driver licenses of every other state.

WA state has been shall-issue CCW since 1935, and still no "blood flowing in the streets".
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Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-04-06 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
12. Of course what that article doesnt tell you is that many blue states
have CCW laws on the books... *shock*
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-04-06 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
14. I'm not convinced this is a good idea...
the vast majority of the country already has CCW licensure and reciprocity. I am licensed by the state of North Carolina to carry a firearm, and at least 31 other states recognize that permit. I'd love to be able to carry on the way through NJ and Massachusetts to visit Maine, but I'm afraid any bill to nationalize carry permits would eventually result in the nationalization of carry permit licensing standards...meaning that eventually an elites-only system like you currently see in a few "may-issue" states would be foisted on all of us.
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Doctor Venmkan Donating Member (278 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-10-06 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. You nailed my feelings...
...right down to having an NC Carry Permit! While NC's carry law isn't "perfect," it also isn't the worst. If we ever adopt a NATIONAL CCW standard, I fear it would put a lot more restrictions on it. Like having to have each gun you carry "registered" on the permit as at least one state does.

I'd be much happier with the Status Quo. Tennessee is the only other state I spend a lot of time in, and they honor my permit.
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SlipperySlope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-04-06 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
15. An excellent idea...
I'm not sure of the constitutionality though. Perhaps this fits under the "full faith and credit" clause.

No matter the specifics, in general this is something that is drastically overdue. I *most* want to make use of my CCW when travelling.
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Township75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
16. I think I will bookmark this thread...
just in case I run into the old treat guns like cars arguement (usually from an arguement about registration and licensing).

AFter all, if you are really going to treat guns like cars, then I should be able to take and operate my firearm in any state just like I can with my car.
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sir pball Donating Member (425 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Not to mention
You can buy a car on the spot with no background check or Federal record (4473), and as long as you only plan on operating your car on private property you can modify it to do whatever the heck you want, and you don't have to register it, or have a license for it...the more I think about it, the more I like this whole guns-as-cars idea. Have one CCW gun registered, keep a whole "arsenal" up on blocks in the backyard :)
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Romulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-06-06 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
18. funniest thing I read all day
This must be a spoof of a gun control press release . . . :rofl:
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