The Video that Shook our Democracy

[rodeodance]

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: The Video that Shook our Democracy
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 19:08:32 +0000
From: Election Justice News <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Election Justice News <[email protected]>
To: xxxxxx



Friends of Democracy,

A pivotal election faces us, less than two months away. I think we all agree, the victory should go to the candidate who gets the most votes. But the integrity of election results this Fall are now in serious doubt.

Every time computer security experts do a study on our electronic voting system, they raise serious alarms. The recent Brennan Report stated "All three voting systems have significant security and reliability vulnerabilities, which pose a real danger to the integrity of national, state, and local elections."

What this means to us is that we can't just show up on election day and vote. We have to all do some extra work this time, to help ensure our votes are counted correctly. One important thing we can all do is help spread the word, so that more people become aware of the problem. And while some argue that when people become aware of the problems, it makes them less likely to vote, we disagree. People need to know that our democracy is in serious trouble and election results are questionable. It will never get better until more people become involved, write to their legislators about their concerns, and join activist goups to address the issue. So let's do our part and "be the media!" Here's one simple thing we can all do.
Just watch this video. Then share it with everyone you know.

If a picture is worth a thousand words, this chilling video is worth million. This week, some professors at Princeton University released a study that everyone should be talking about. As part of the study, there is a short video where they demonstrate how easy it is to alter election results in an undetectable way.

We encourage everyone to take 9 minutes to watch this video, and then share it with everyone you know. Show it to your local election officials, particularly if you use touchscreen voting machines. Just sharing this video is a powerful way to raise awareness. Help spread the word!

http://itpolicy.princeton.edu/voting/videos.html

We are also asking everyone to contact CNN's Lou Dobbs, the only mainstream journalist who has been discussing the electronic voting machines, and ask him to show this video on his 6pm news broadcast. You can contact Lou Dobbs here.
There's lots more happening, including some big lawsuits which could throw a monkey wrench into the entire electronic voting machine industry. Stay tuned, we'll be in touch. Don't forget to check our website for updated info.

Best Regards,
the Election Justice Center
on the Solar Bus

Election Justice News is a free newsletter of the Solar Bus. To sign up for this newsletter, of for information about our other free newsletters, visit this webpage

[Kurovski]

1. K&R.(nt)

[Dems Will Win]

64. Just posted an ABRAMOFF-DIEBOLD-NEY TIMELINE

on how the GOP stole our democracy:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2153139

Abramoff! Diebold! Bob Ney! The White House!

Together in one scandal to defraud America!

Get the popcorn going now...

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[illinoisprogressive]

3. With the Elections so Close

and the republicans is serious trouble this will be a major problem
Say what you will about Lou Dobbs but, he is the ONLY broadcaster who is addressing this problem.
I say you send this article to him and maybe write a cover letter as well. It could be most helpful. He is really concerned about it and the rest of the MSM just yawns and says conspiracy theory.

[PerceptionManagement]

65. Oh fer Cris-sake, stop whining and go buy some duct tape.

[stop the bleeding]

4. this magic link in the voting process can never get too much

attention IMO

[Towlie]

5. Why is it...

Why is it that liberals are highly concerned about the integrity of voting machines and fairness of our elections, while conservatives generally ridicule and discourage any doubts or investigations? It says a lot, doesn't it?

From Bruce Schneier's Crypto-Gram, May 22, 2006:

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/05/diebold_doesnt.html

Diebold Doesn't Get It

This http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/12/us/12vote.html?ex=1305086400&en=5b3554a76aad524a&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss">quote sums up nicely why Diebold should not be trusted to secure election machines:

David Bear, a spokesman for Diebold Election Systems, said the potential risk existed because the company's technicians had intentionally built the machines in such a way that election officials would be able to update their systems in years ahead.

"For there to be a problem here, you're basically assuming a premise where you have some evil and nefarious election officials who would sneak in and introduce a piece of software," he said. "I don't believe these evil elections people exist."

If you can't get the threat model right, you can't hope to secure the system.

[nxylas]

13. I dunno, even the Freepers aren't pretending any more

Check out reply number 84 on this thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1701393/posts?q=1&&page=51

[Chipster]

16. Not Pretending, But Condoning

Glibly referring to probable election fraud as being within the <a href="http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1701393/posts?q=1&&page=51">"Diebold range"</a> shows their disregard and contempt for our republic's democratic processes.

After using one of the new voting machines and viewing the <a href="http://itpolicy.princeton.edu/voting/videos.html">Princeton video</a> I wrote the <a href="http://elections.state.wi.us/index.asp">Wisconsin State Election Board</a> inquiring "How can we be assured that this type of chicanery will not happen here in Wisconsin?"

I received a timely reply - that didn't address the specifics raised in the video about vote counting. "Each machine produces a paper ballot which the voter should review. If the ballot does not match how they cast their ballot then they can ask for a new ballot. We also have public test for each machine before each election."

Not a word about compromising either the voting machine after the testing (probably conducted the day before the election) or the separate optical scanner counting machine.

Obviously, there's much work to do, and limited time to do it.

[LeahMira]

91. There wasn't always limited time

There wasn't always limited time to do something. We've had two questionable presidential elections already and, after at least the first, some discussion of the appropriateness of the continuing existence of the electoral college. After the dust settled, though, all but a very few folks gave these concerns so much as a thought, let alone coming up with any plan of action. If yet another election is stolen, it won't be the fault of Republicans. Old saying: fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. I don't think there's any old saying about fool me three times. That should tell us something.

[Blutodog]

33. In other words

Diebold is telling us up front in our face that their machines are made intentionally to be altered by whomever "controls" access to the machine. As for the rest of the BS about trust and evil elections people the very use of the word "evil" says it all. These folks are indeed BOLD and they are smug. They're basically telling us all to fuck off and get with the "new order" of things aren't they? Sound familiar ? Isn't this the same message we've been hearing since Nov. 2000?

[nxylas]

53. Makes you wonder why they even bother having elections

If it's to maintain the illusion of democracy, they're not making a very good job of it. I can only conclude that it is just another form of corporate welfare. After all, if the law states that elections have to be held, then that means that states have to keep giving our tax dollars to Diebold and ES&S, right?

[Chipster]

69. Milwaukee Undergoes Recount - 44% Vote Loss Anticipated

Milwaukee's media is reporting that: "City officials have estimated that the recount of ballots cast could trim the city's reported 80,000 turnout in Tuesday's voting by 35,000." but assured readers that: "Officials have said they are certain results from individual races were not affected by the computer glitch."

http://www.themilwaukeechannel.com/news/9865253/detail.html

Well, now, don't be worrying your pretty heads about an anticipated 43.75% loss of votes in one out of 72 WI state counties due to a computer "glitch" - gosh, we all know about glitches, don't we? Those silly machines...lol! Just another glitch!

And never mind that the population of Milwaukee over the voting age of 18 is 425,990, meaning officially less than 19% bothered to vote in the primary (and remember, officials have already assured voters that no individual races were affected). Nevermind that half the county's population is white, and the other half "minority." That voting rights thing is so yesterday!

http://milwaukee.areaconnect.com/statistics.htm

It's obvious from the get-go that cutting a major county's vote by more than 43% wouldn't affect any results, especially in a hotly contested races, like the Wisconsin state's Adjutant General primary, where the incumbent was unseated by fewer than 20,000 votes - statewide.

So, just to review, rest assured that a statewide contest with a margin of loss of less than 20,000 won't be affected by a county-wide recount anticipated to remove 35,000 votes from the final vote total.

Got it.

[Chipster]

86. Milwaukee Recounts: Vote Tally Lowered by 33,000 But No Outcomes Change

The results are in!

"MILWAUKEE -- A hand recount of ballots from this week's primary election shows no changes in the outcome of any political race.

The Milwaukee County Election Commission originally said more than 80,000 ballots were cast Tuesday.

Now, they said the correct total was less than 47,000.

They blamed the confusion on a computer programming error, and they said they are working on 'improvements.'"

http://www.themilwaukeechannel.com/politics/9860880/detail.html

Move along, folks, nothing to see here...just a little computer glitch (hehehe!). It can happen (in your dreams).

Based on this, rest assured that just more than 40% of the votes cast in Milwaukee county are accurately tallied in the first count.

Gosh, those computers don't seem to do as well as those frequently disparged senior citizens who toil long shifts on behalf of their fellow Americans' right to vote: by methodically, almost mechanically counting each vote, in mind numbing, patriotically-inspired cadence, cautiously monitored by duty-sworn election judges.

As predicted and reported prior to Milwaukee County's recount, "...individual races were not affected by the computer glitch."

http://www.themilwaukeechannel.com/news/9865253/detail.html

Amazing! In just one county out of 72 in a state, with a voting age county population of 425,990, about equally half white and minority, a mere total of 11% residents voted, down from the inital report of 19% of the county's electorate voting.

And in only one race tallied from all 72 counties, the incumbent Wisconsin Adjutant General lost by fewer than 20,000 votes - as Milwaukee County revised downward the total vote count by 33,000 votes, or 66%.

Makes me wonder if it's "new math."

[truedelphi]

96. I'm So-o sick to my stomach after reading this

Or maybe it's that I haven't yet eaten breakfast...

Nope, never eat breakfast, rarely this sick

[truedelphi]

97. BTW if you shoul dnotice any journalists or

Columnists acting critically of this type of thing, please let me know of them

I am helping to assemble a list of voting rights-minded news people

[Diane R]

6. And this is why Rove and Bush are so confident about the midterm elections

[mikelewis]

20. yes... it is.

[Blutodog]

34. True

Theyknow it's all been rigged beforehand and no matter what any of the polls say the only poll that counts is the one on Nov. 7th and they'll be the one's doing the counting that day.

[civildisoBDence]

7. Why not do what my bank does with thumbprints?

You vote on a paper ballot and imprint your thumbprint right there on the ballot.

Does that make sense, or am I missing something?

Newsprism

[Towlie]

8. It's called "data creep."

No way! They'll use all those thumbprints for various other purposes that will almost certainly erode our privacy even further. Forget the thumbprint idea!

(And I wouldn't deal with your bank either!)

[Moochy]

11. Welcome to DU Towlie!

:hi:

[Tigress DEM]

47. Voter Numbers & Passcodes -- issued with a one time use voter card

Agency A handles the vote cards, request comes in and a vote card goes out, but it is sealed so the person sending it to the address does not know the actual number.

Agency B is advised and sends out a passcode.

Voter calls a number to activate their card and changes the passcode.

AND I think with the way votes are going we should be getting 2 laminated receipts that we can hold onto in a private vault &/or send one copy to our preferred party to record our votes with a second more trusted source. Right now for some reason, receipts are illegal?

I also think that with an annonymous voter id number results could be posted real time on a website and people could monitor to be certain that no flipping is done at any time, that anytime an update is made to a machine it is shown out there in cyber world with all the personal info never connected in the first place.

[SmokingJacket]

55. Simpler way to do it...

People walk into a booth and check off a box on a piece of paper. They take the paper out and put it into a box in front of a row of multi-party election officials, who are counting how many ballots go in.

At the end of the night, in front of a video camera and any members of the public who want to witness, the box is opened and the ballots are counted, again by the group of election officials from all parties.

A form is signed by all witnesses and brought to the elections office. Ta da! Finis.

It wouldn't take long at all. We have 800 registered votes in my district, maybe 60% show up.

[Imagevision]

67. And GOP tells americans there is no need for a paper trailed machines!!

This only got by the american people because of the corrupt Bush administration...!

[Apollo11]

87. Good system

This is what happens for all local and national elections in Great Britain.

Seems to work well, to the satisfaction of all parties (although there are some questions about abuse of postal votes in some cities - which concerns how votes are cast, but not how they are counted).

[Pacifist Patriot]

40. That would completely eliminate the principle of a secret ballot.

It is nobody's business, particularly the government's, whom I vote for unless I decide to release that information.

[LeahMira]

92. Makes sense, except...

for the fact that the government already has access to our personal records and conversations these days. My thumbprint is my own for now. Besides, I really can sign my name better than anyone else does it! :-)

[texpatriot2004]

9. No Transparency = No Democracy nt

[2stolenelections]

10. Voter Verified Paper Trail is stupid

Before anyone suggests that a voter verified paper trail is the remedy for this fiasco, they should realize that the paper trail will not make a difference unless anyone counts it. The only way you would actually get to count the paper receipts is if you managed to get a recount request past the courts, which would then mean the paper receipts got "counted" by the same corrupt people who bought the Diebold machines in the first place, all the while being heckled by the Vichy media and the loser 70's genteel Democrats.

The only way Democrats are going to stop getting their faces ripped off is if the paper receipts are what gets counted in the first place. Who cares if it's a Diebold, ES&S or a Rovetron 2000, if it's just a front end to a printer. And no bar codes, filled in bubbles or any other computer-friendly format should be allowed: the tabulation computer should count what the human can read by OCR'ing the text.

[OnyxCollie]

15. On the subject of paper trails,

I had been wondering, "What needs to occur before those are even looked at?" I thought I had read something like, If there is a 2% discrepancy, the paper trail gets checked against the electronic votes. But then I thought, with electronic votes how do you know if there is ANY discrepancy?

[The Wizard]

30. We're spending billions

on crap that can easily be compromised. It's sound and fury signifying nothing. Smoke and mirrors for bells and whistles are no substitute for paper ballots and a box car full of cheap pens with the ballots deposited in a transparent publicly displayed locked boxes. At the end of the day the ballots are counted in front of all who care to watch. What are they hiding with their secret code for ballot tabulation. We're not talking defense secrets here, thus the need for secrecy is null and void. Other countries that use electronic voting have open source code for the tabulating. It's all very Stalinesque.

[aquart]

45. And who is getting those billions?

Republican-controlled companies. What a surprise.

They forced HAVA thru because the machines were DESIGNED to cheat.

[Blutodog]

35. Agreed

The paper trail idea is laughable. In fact the rethugs probably see it as their next line of defense. They'll say OK now we'll allow paper trails and then they'll continue to steal the elections only now they'll have a paper trail to wave in our face of proof it's all above board now. The only way to to stop the wholesale theft of our system is to DUMP these devices and return to PAPER ballots like most of the rest of the world. The only reason for using these awful devices in the first place is because of speed. That shouldn't be a concern at all. Who cares about speed when the people elected are going to be in office for years! No the speed reason is total BS. Hand friggin count them like everyone else does . So what if it takes a few days. It's on the face much harder to steal elections wholesale with paper because to do so requires large conspiracies or openly corrupt goverments.

[nxylas]

52. "The only reason for using these devices in the first place is speed"

Try telling that to the people in mainly Democratic districts who have to line up for hours to vote.

[TankLV]

75. The "speed" issue concerns the COUNTING, not the VOTING.

It would not take any longer to VOTE.

Read the issue before issuing stupid comments...

[Tigress DEM]

48. VVP is NOT stupid, it's just not enough with these lying s-o-c's.

What we need is some sort of verifiable trail that can be constantly monitored and that shows ANY changes to the machine counted votes at ANY time.

If we had assigned voter numbers that were issued in a sealed envelope by a separate agency than the one who has our address on file, like they do with bank cards, and a third agency to issue the initial secret code and an automated system to call and activate our card with our own passcode, then it would be safe to attach the information to the voter number and track it on a realtime website that shows EVERY change to that voting record.

Random samples could be taken, voters could log on themselves, there would be so many eyes able to view the hyjinks in real time we could keep them honest.

I also think each voter should get a laminated receipt that they can inspect at the time of voting to make sure it matches what they entered and that has their voter number on it so if there is a discrepency they can file an immediate complaint once any information has been altered.

[renate]

61. Hi! Welcome to DU!!

:hi:

[april]

12. so little time so much corruption

maybe we should bring this into the media attention..I am sure that this will get coverage..
So here is the thought of the day..with all the polls maybe we should just give them the opposite answer ..just to have a little fun the Bastards..

So due to the polls in the areas that the Dems are favored that where these little Diebbold tallys will be changed? Vote Absentee

[hobbit709]

14. I've been telling people for years

the first mistake is assuming the machine is honest. I was saying this the first time I saw one of these electronic machines and that was before 2000.

[chchchanges]

17. Why do we need damned machines

This is democracy/republic not a McDonald's. The day we as nation outsourced the counting of our votes to a non elected private firm is when we stop being a democracy.

Here is an idea, why don't we make election day a holiday, so everyone can actually vote and not miss work. And, why don't we have manual, supervised, counts. I mean, if Republicans are so concerned about the democratic process in Iraq as to spend billions in their elections, I am sure they would not mind a few million HERE.

So, I can not see the source code for their software, I can not audit the machines, and there is no paper trail. Am I the only one who finds this proposition -closed voting machines- not only stupid but highly insulting to my intelligence? Why should I trust the makers of the voting machines when I did not elect them, and they do not trust me with their source code to begin with?

Other countries make damn sure every vote is counted, whatever time it takes, again... I don't care that it takes a whole 48hrs to get the results.... it is not my problem if frantic network newscasters need something to shoot about. We don't need a quick estimate, which is what elections have become in this country... I need an actual count.

And if we are applying technology to the whole election process, why don't get rid of the electoral college first? Which was established in the days before communications were possible?

I give up.... in other countries I have lived in, anyone trying to pull crap like this would have been ran out of the city wearing tar and chicken feathers.... here people just wait in line to make their votes a mockery, and they like it! Can you imagine being the CEO of Diebold observing a long line in the election hall, and laughing at the poor idiots wasting their time since he already knows the vote count before they ever voted?

[moose65]

31. I agree about election day

Election Day, in my opinion, needs to be either a holiday or on the weekend. Also, November isn't the best time of year for it; there can be some pretty bad weather at that time in Northern and Mountain states. I'd prefer September myself, after school starts and summer is over, when everyone is getting back into the groove. Ballots should be counted by hand or scanning machines, and they should be available for review for anyone who wants to look at them. I don't understand all the secrecy. There's really no reason for it. I think Democrats need to make this a priority once we regain control. But will we ???

[Blutodog]

36. Techno fools

The American public is sold the idea of electronic voting like every other technological device. They believe it's progress for some reason? In fact this is another example of using machines to destroy things. Electronic voting devices misused are in fact destroying our country one phony election at a time.

[Tigress DEM]

50. Making sure every vote is counted is the final answer.

Getting there is the problem.

Early on, machines were a garbage in/garbage out component. You could only get the result based on what you entered and if you are able to verify it at the time, it reduces possible vote count errors based on human mistakes.

Society became complacent about being able to trust that our votes would be honestly counted. Prior to 2000 how many people volunteered to run local polling places?

At this point a voting day holiday is needed so that more people can get involved.. Even a 1/2 day would be good.

As far as people being happy to be standing in line even with all our problems in getting the vote counted, it is ironic but understandable. Patriotic, determined Americans standing in line in record numbers to be counted is an awe inspiring site, because even if the top is corrupt, the PEOPLE still have a job to do.

Until the very core of our Democratic principals was shattered, none of US had a FULL appreciation of how precious our country is to US, how sacred the bond of trust between ourselves and our elected officials is - until it has been so severely threatened. Think of a family after some major crises, holding more tightly to one another even with full devastation around them and seeing clearly what is really important.

Millions of people taking passionate stands based on whatever information they have been able to glean in this time of mis-information and corruption is still more awe inspiring than apathetic people not giving a damm because it doesn't affect "them".

[2stolenelections]

62. Not quite...

"Counting every vote" is another canard in the election reform talking points. Counting every vote is only half the problem; the other half is not counting the fake votes.

[TankLV]

76. Thanks for parroting the repuke talking points.

The 99% issues is counting ALL the votes CORRECTLY - the issue of so-called "fake" votes is not at issue - that is a negligible "problem" at best...

[GetTheRightVote]

18. This is so true, and there are other ways as well I am sure.

:kick:

[Just-plain-Kathy]

19. This is really getting scary...

If the poster from the Free Republic link is under the impression that Bush's approval rating is 47%, that has to mean that propaganda is being set into place. More so than usual.

If Americans believe that Bush's ratings are high, they will never question the outcome if republicans wins.

A Republican friend of mine said that we'll lose NJ because of a corrupt Democratic official. They're out for blood.

We have to start pressuring our Democratic leaders to to clearly get out the message that we have been under Republican control for SIX YEARS. Average voters don't know this. Believe me I know.

We have to remind, or should I say report to voters that it was Democrats who started Social Security and it was primarily Democrats who saved Social Security.

If we explain Subpoena Power. Americans would realize why it seems democrats have been sitting on their hands all these years. If we get these three messages across...voters will come out in droves to vote for a Democrat in November.

:rant: :patriot:

[NJCher]

27. corrupt official

A Republican friend of mine said that we'll lose NJ because of a corrupt Democratic official.

Could you elaborate on this a little more?

Are you sure it's not a corrupt Republican, namely the Republican Christie, who has started a farce of an investigation into something Menendez ran past the ethics committees before it even became an issue?




Cher

[Just-plain-Kathy]

32. Hi NJCher,

I don't follow NJ politics, according to my Republican friend, Senator John Lynch, who's a former Democratic President of the New Jersey State Senate, supposedly pleaded guilty yesterday to federal corruption and tax evasion charges and used his political influence for a series of money producing scams.

My friend (and when I say friend) I mean I like exchanging political digs with him. He's an elderly man with a sweet heart but can give the meaning to the word cranky.

He gave me his news and I told him about how Halliburton's being charged with selling nuclear technology to Iran. We go shot for shot.

[Lasher]

38. Don't be scared Kathy

The freepers cited Junior's approval rating in a poll conducted by Rasmussen, which almost always shows a result higher than any other poll. The only exception I have ever seen is when they have tied with another poll for the highest, and those cases have been rare.

This sort of cherrypicking is not new, but people are sometimes fooled by it. We can help by knowing and sharing the truth. Here is the Real Clear Politics composite on The Decider's approval rating, which is an average of polls that were conducted during the same period. There you can see a more realistic score for Junior, which is 41%.

And here is a graph that shows what his approval rating has been since January 2001:

http://www.pollkatz.homestead.com/

[DaveJ]

21. A "fringe" idea that will be totally ignored (for awhile).....

Obviously the voting machines are corrupt. There is no honest reason for Diebold to keep their source code and electronic design a secret, and their response to their system's vulnerabilities screams of arrogant incompetence.

And everyone here has great observations and suggestions for what's to be done against this BLATENTLY dumb voting system.

In the meantime, let me add a ridiculously fringe idea here. :sarcasm:

This will really sound crazy to many, but I'm positive this is where things will head eventually, assuming Democracy survives.... Why not use technology in a positive manner? Sounds crazy, I know. I must be a nutcase... but hear me out. The only reason computerized touch screen voting systems exist today is to fill the bank accounts of a few weak minded republican wannabe techies who consider every line of crappy code they vomit out to be proprietary. So again, why not use technology for something positive instead.

This may sound like a futuristic unobtainable dream to the dull minded, but in reality, a few competent people could create this system in a few weeks...

The U.S. should obtain votes from every eligible voter online!

Simply create a database which records each vote according social security number. Individuals' home addresses can be mapped to state ID's, driver's licenses, and/or other records which are already on file. Give each person a code that only they know, and enable them to check in to make sure their votes were recorded properly. People could then also be able to view the comprehensive results including their own votes without actually knowing each others' votes. This would be an infallible system that eliminates the possibility of corruption.

Then, we will have obtained true Democracy and convenience. Republicans believe that voting should be an exclusive privilege that belongs to a few. I believe that everyone has a voice that should be heard.

[Chipster]

23. Humor me here...

I understand the input part of your suggestion, and though I wonder about fraud by social security number - they certainly aren't secure since the government looked the other way while credit companies made them a principal identifier. But, that aside, what are you suggesting for vote verification? To be clear, corruption could evolve from vote counting, and I don't understand how your suggestion addresses that issue.

[DaveJ]

26. Thanks for aksing...

I understand your concerns but I believe that a Democracy must be compelled to obtain votes from everyone. The key to alleviating your concerns, I think, is making the system open, unlike the Diebold system which is not open but closed to overall inspection. That is a typical Republican strategy -- excluding people from the Democratic system because of course they do not believe in Democracy.

We have had an open system up until now -- paper ballots. The problem is that although paper ballots are open, the majority of the population is excluded as a result of social factors... working that day, not having transportation, not knowing where the polling places are, not having been registered, etc.

The idea is simply this: online people could see how they voted and how their neighbors voted without actually knowing who they are (via private IDs), for the sake of privacy. That way corruption is avoided. They know their voted is counted because they can see it in the list. And they know what the overall count is because they see all the votes right in front of them.

I did not mention the possibility of the so called "dead man" votes, but I am sure there would be a way of avoiding that. For instance, the system could tabulate the address of each voter without revealing their choices. If anyone sees that nonexistent neighbors are on the list it would get reported and the fraud would be revealed, making it virtually impossible for anyone to pull off such a fraud. (Identity theft would be avoided in a similar way -- people would see the fraud and report it, so there would be no sense trying to pull it off)

To sum things up, by doing this in an open and electronic manner, a way that every kid who uses MySpace these days understands, the U.S. can obtain votes from practically everyone, or at least a huge percentage of the population the likes of which has never been seen before.

What's happening is, Republicans plan to take advantage of our irrational (and momentary) fear of computer technology just like they take advantage of every other human weakness for their own self serving schemes. Ideally we would be strong and progress, take the lead, and admit that this plan would work!


Edit: as usual I had a few typos I needed to correct.

[Apollo11]

88. Don't trust the machines!

We have had an open system up until now -- paper ballots. The problem is that although paper ballots are open, the majority of the population is excluded as a result of social factors... working that day, not having transportation, not knowing where the polling places are, not having been registered, etc.

All those problems can be solved - for example by making election day a legally enforced public holiday.

Online voting is not secure and is not convenient for (mostly poor) people without their own home computer.

[PegDAC]

63. That's exaclty what the Arizona Democratic Party

did in the 2000 primary. They sent everyone a unique PIN and on the day of the primary the voter logged in to the designated website, entered their PIN and voted for their candidate of choice. Worked like a dream.

[eviltwin2525]

22. Well, ya know....IN CASE OF EMERGENCY, BREAK GLASS

If worst comes to worst (again), the Repugs have conveniently but unintentionally provided the way to shut down their own vote-stealing schemes.

Not that I'm saying we should, of course.

[orleans]

24. interesting idea...didn't we toy with this two years ago?

we could have an army of "vote rescue" soldiers or wolf criers (there's something wrong with this machine/it keeps changing my vote/this machine is broken/wait, i think it's....no, it did it again)

[orleans]

25. k&r --i wonder if they sent this to bobby kennedy? i hear he is doing

another article on the voting machines.

[xchrom]

28. woops there it is -- again. K&R

[Wise Doubter]

29. LIVE FREE or DIEBOLD !!

`nuff said.

[Vinca]

37. We need to go back to sweet, blue haired ladies who patiently

counted each and every ballot after the polls closed. (And before they closed they handed out cookies!) I'm really, really freaked out about this Princeton video. Yesterday I emailed it to Lou Dobbs, Keith O. and Bernie Sanders. We should send it everywhere.

[comtec]

39. NEW CALIFORNIA ABSENTEE PROBLEM!!!

Hi,

I live in The Netherlands with my beloved wife. I vote absentee because I give a damn. Last time I voted (last year I think - I missed the Primary because I moved and the online-reg was down) I was sent a big envelope with a normal voting card. In my district, we were still using the very reliable "Mark here with a sharpie" Ballots. IMHO, about the best thing you can do for a ballot. They use SAT like machines, and read hundreds of cards accurately in minutes, and are easily human verifiable.

The ballot I just got in my mail yesterday, and opened today is UTTER CRAP!

There is simply a list of office/people and propositions. that's it. No party affiliations listed, no booklet telling me what each person stands for, NOTHING! NOW.. Maybe the voting material is just a day or so behind, I understand that. It happens. But my actual, official ballot, will literally be hand written by me... Mr ICT guy-who-can't-write-legibly-for-shit. Thankfully I have taken drafting and know how to scribe legibly when needed... but my anger and ire is for other absentee voters. This is the OFFICIAL MILITARY AND OVER SEAS VOTE form!!!!!

I apologize if my post is not as clear as I may have meant it to be. But I'm hopping pissed off! I'm more concerned about the military guys who have, generally, little education let alone a clear understanding of all the issues.

I'm not concerned about other patriots in exile like myself - it's likely we are more educated than the general populace (and since when is being educated elitist, fuck you Ru$h), and thus more likely to research the issues, and understand them anyway.

This is a horrible ballot, and I hope is simply an aberration.

**gets off his soap box**

anyway on Electronic voting 2 things:
1 - open all electronic devices to be regulated by the gaming commissions, just like the slot machines. open, fair, transparent.

2- on-line voting. Yes it can be done, honestly I don't know if you can really separate the voter, from his/her vote however. In California, when you get your driver's License you have to submit your thumb print. That's a standard biometric now a days. what you would need to to id put a chip IN the driver's license with your thumb print, and GIVE voters a card reader/thumb print device that measure if you are breathing, etc. You slide the card into the reader, then put your thumb on for scanning. ALL this is done through the official local voting website. Installation should be pretty simple (plug it in, windows install a basic driver provided by the state (or apple or Linux)) and poof it's there. Then the website makes a secure connection to your computer, you have your thumb scanned, and vote.

This does two things, it insures you're alive (thumb biometric scan) and it is convenient. You will increase voter turn out by at least 25% imho.

Which is why it'll NEVER EVER happen under a Republican watch.

really done now :)

[aquart]

46. On-line or email voting is a horrific idea.

[TankLV]

78. I agree. PAPER ballots that are HAND counted IN PUBLIC.

On-line voting would be no better than or worse than paperless ballots now.

NOBODY can see the vote COUNTING. It's in some faceless hidden room someplace.

Somebody could be at the "voter end" and FORCING them at GUNPOINT to "vote" THEIR way - No Thanks.

VERIFIABLE, PHYSICAL, PAPER BALLOTS, that are COUNTED IN PUBLIC.

[aquart]

84. Greece requires its citizens to vote in Greece.

I don't know if it's true for all possibilities (or maybe she just preferred to do it that way?) but when the elections were coming, my friend Filio got on a plane and went back to Athens.

[raipoli]

41. Kudos to VelvetRevolution for Delivering the Machine to Princeton

What is missing in this thread is appreciation to VelvetRevolution.us getting this Diebold TS machine to the Princeton team. That is another story that will be coming out soon, and yes Bobby Kennedy knows all about this and he will he talking about it in his follow-up article in Rolling Stone which is coming out shortly.

The Priceton team was on CNN morning news demonstrating this hack and the Washington Post wrote about yesterday in "The Worse is Yet to Come." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/14/AR2006091401614.html?nav=hcmodulemmv

Spread the word.

[mb7588a]

42. if i had...

If I had half an education in comp. sci., i'd make a voting machine that couldn't be messed with, and i'd make a boatload of cash...

This is why EVERYONE should vote absentee, like me!

[MindMatter]

43. It's already been done.

It is called a paper ballot. These systems are in use in tens of thousands of precincts across the country. They are cheap, efficient, and accountable.

[rambler_american]

59. Voting absentee

Voting absentee is a leap of faith. Do you really suppose the goons that have destroyed our Democracy are going to count an absentee ballot any more fairly than a Diebold ballot? Greg Pallast claims that truckloads of absentee ballots (mainly from Dem districts) were simply trashed.

[mb7588a]

81. Well at least I have a copy of it. nt.

[whistle]

44. I saw this video earlier this week, so I copied the link and sent it

...out to about a dozen select people on my email list. One of those persons works with the Orange County FL election board as a paid monitor to help people with questions regarding the new E-vote machines. Here is the reply this person sent back to me:

<snip>
Horse-feathers!!! Some people have too much time on their hands, and get into trouble when they try to use the brains that have dried up and shriveled from lack of use.

After polls are closed, polling centers log on-line and full printouts of every vote taken on each individual machine is relayed through protected telephone lines, directly to election central offices for tabulating. Yes, I guess it could be possible to hack into, but I'm sure there are plenty of strong firewalls and other precautions used to prevent it.
<end of snip>

I really am not interested in creating converts, I only wish to deliver the message. However, this really worries me because this person gave such an immediate and hyperbolic response that I suspect there has been a significant amount of conditioning that the voting personnel have been subjected to. This person is computer literate which I suspect is why they have this particular job. They may also have been given significant doses of kool aid so that they can shot back such a response. Fear of loosing a job is a great stimulus for denial.

[ThsMchneKilsFascists]

83. the individual quoted doesn't or more likely doesn't care to get it

After polls are closed, polling centers log on-line and full printouts of every vote taken on each individual machine is relayed through protected telephone lines, directly to election central offices for tabulating. Yes, I guess it could be possible to hack into, but I'm sure there are plenty of strong firewalls and other precautions used to prevent it.

the devil is in the details in this case
it aint the reporting of numbers where the security hole exists, it's the tabulating (counting) that'll get ya
i suspect disinformation, but maybe the quoted individual is simply a dumbass.
wow. protected phone lines.
dial me up unimpressed.
this seems like it's pablum for the uninitiated.
most Americans know jack-shit about computer and internet security protocol
but they trust black box voting implicitly?
says diebold

[meldroc]

49. The most disturbing part is when you look at Diebold's other products.

Diebold doesn't just make voting machines. They make ATMs, cash registers, cash counting & deposit systems used in banks by tellers, vaults & safes, and other security products. They've been in this business for years. Do you think that banks and other customers who deal with money & valuables would tolerate sloppy security in their products? Why do you think that Diebold routinely makes ATMs and other secure equipment used and trusted every day by banks, but then turns around and makes voting machines that are riddled with security holes?

It isn't an accident that the Diebold TS machines have these secuirty flaws.

[tomreedtoon]

51. Ever see a Diebold ATM machine boot up...with Windows???

Anyone working with computers knows how Windows is vulnerable to security breaches. When I was in a shopping mall in Atlanta a few weeks ago, I was surprised to see the ATM...one run by my bank, SunTrust, a multi-state banking conglomerate...booting up. Into Windows XP Professional.

"God," I thought, "this thing isn't showing any antivirus programs loading...what if someone were to hack this to get my password, account number and data and steal me blind?" Of course, no one at the bank could or would provide any answers.

So maybe banks ARE stupid when they buy Diebold equipment. Maybe they don't realize what shoddy stuff Diebold is putting out, running off-the-shelf, easily-hackable Windows in their ATM terminals. Maybe if people made banks aware that Diebold was cheating them too, the business world would turn against them.

I mean, who the hell cares if Democratic votes are destroyed or black people disenfranchised? But let the banks lose money...NOW they care!

[Castleman]

54. I woulda thunk that Diebold

making his absolute guarantee of Bush carrying Ohio 6 months ahead of the election would have been a sign that they can't be trusted. Or does anyone else think that a known Republican activist with ties to the administration shouldn't be allowed to have anything to do with the election?

I'm just sayin'.....
Thank god we in Washington State do our voting the old fashioned way, blue haired ladies, punch cards, cookies and all...:-)

[nxylas]

56. Actually, the real old-fashioned way is how they do it in Britain

No punch cards, no machines of any sort, just a little stubby pencil with which you mark an X next to your preferred candidate.

[comtec]

58. Actually I have bad news for you...

I've built some of these boxes, or at least gone through the training. They have been using windows since 95, and DOS before that. it's convenient for the programmers, since nobody wants to program in any language other than C++ now a days.

Anyway point being with windows you can use "off the shelf" parts, that makes the things cheaper to make and thus more profitable. The boxes I was working on directly were cash registers, but ATM techs were being asked if they knew windows (still are). So um.. yeah... be afraid, be very afraid. BUT keep in mind that's just the ATM. all YOUR information is stored on a V E R Y secure UNIX box, probably running SUN Solaris, the ATMs are JUST a interface unit. The biggest concern isnt getting into your account, but into the ATM making it dump all it's money.

[patriotX]

71. Accounts are in as much danger as the ATM contents...

I work in network security for a financial company. While you're correct that thieves are interested in making ATMs dump their cash, I don't think that you're correct about the account theft.

Account theft is rampant lately and trojaning an ATM machine would be a goldmine for a would-be scammer. Some ATMs (perhaps not Diebold ones, I don't know) even do their transactions over secure tunnels on the internet, and depending on how their routers/firewalls are configured, may even be forced to allow traffic out to unauthorized sites. Or you could use the reciept printer for your purposes...

Think about that for a minute.

The trick with trojaning a box for collecting account information would be getting it to report back, that's probably why they consider having them dump the money a bigger concern, but make no mistake there would be ways to do it.

Anyway, the fact is if you can compromise the reporting machine, you can effectively compromise the storage machine. The safety for the consumer comes from the ability to audit transaction after the fact and the user having an account withdrawal limit.

Disclaimer: I do not, in any way, shape, or form, condone the use of malicious software to trojan an ATM. The information provided herein is not intended to aid anyone wishing to do so.

[McCamy Taylor]

57. This is one of the most important videos of the election season!

[IWantAChange]

60. Everyone forgetting the exit polling in 2004?

Whoever controls the voting machines controls the election - the statistical anomalies from the 2004 Bush/Kerry exit polling should prove that to one and all.

[COSPRINGS]

66. what is funny is that this isn't hard to fix..

all you have to do is have a machine that also prints the results. Have the voter verify that and keep it.

[Norrin Radd]

70. A sledgehammer would "fix" those machines.

And would feel damn good.

[raipoli]

68. More coming this week

Keep watching this issue cause more is coming out Monday or Tuesday and it isn't going to make Diebold happy.

[dave420]

72. No machines ANYWHERE

Even counting paper ballots by machine is a ridiculous idea. Using people for counting is a great method for a number of reasons - it's a lot harder to co-ordinate fraud if you have a hall of people counting votes. Plus it's cheap as hell to run an election using volunteers. Not to mention it scales really, really well. It's also a lot quicker than electronic voting, due to less time spent in voting booths, no breakdowns, no unexpected errors what-so-ever.

The US is now just some banana republic being ruled by a massive rich-guy circle-jerk. yay.

[Blutodog]

82. Machine con

The machines just make it easier for the thieves to steal elections wholesale.

[orpupilofnature57]

73. 2000 Was our end , Police being involved with elections ,is the only way

we can be assured our Democratic system is protected, it should be the job of law enforcement.

[Bucky]

74. Damn, I wish you were wrong

I was an election judge a long time ago. I got along with my Republican counterparts quite well. One year there was an scheduling snafu in the primaries and I had to end up running both the Democratic and Republican primaries--which technically is a felony, but please don't tell on me. I helped a few people vote who were confused about the ballot and called around until a Republican election official could come over and handle their half of the precinct. They thanked me like it was a big deal, but I'm confident that a Republican judge in my shoes would've done the same 9 times out of 10.

When I took the oath to run elections, I took it seriously and it really was no big deal to me whether I was helping Republican or Democratic citizens exercise their vote. I served the democracy and Harris County paid me five bucks an hour to do so. This election fraud shit shows a qualitative degradation of our country's civic spirit. Or maybe it just shows the shit has all risen to the top because I still think most neighborhood election judges--even the dittoheads--wouldn't cheat on an election.

But corrupt people have risen to the top and it's far too important to secure our sacred right to vote to allow corruptable systems to go unmonitored.

[orpupilofnature57]

80. Bucky ,people like you add to the bank of knowledge on D U

[DubyaSux]

77. THIS IS WHY WE WILL LOSE IN NOVEMBER

We will once again manage to clutch defeat fromm the jaws of victory in November.

This is nutty and plays to your fears. It's that simple.

This demo describes technical abilities without discussing how to circumvent election controls. Election workers are not the morons demos like this point them out to be. It is absurd to beleive that the good, hard-working, honest democrats making up half the election workers are too stupid and careless to let someone get away with this. Is this threat new to them? please....

The republicans are not that good and the democrats are not that dumb.

To make this affect an election, this conspiracy would have to spread around a very large geographical region. With the same wiley republicans and the stupid democrats repeating the same things.

And on top of that, who does the election get fixed for? Did the virus know George Washington and Benedict Arnold were on that ballot and in the order they were in? Is this a GW/BA virus only? Do these virii work for republicans only? Do these virii work with equipment from all manufacturers of this equipment?

If we could win elections by getting out a good clear message to voters sick of the assholes helping destroy this country, we wouldn't have to worry about implausible crap like this. PEOPLE, THIS DOES NOT GET US VOTES. This makes us look kooky. Statistically, we would have an even chance of having elections stolen FOR democrats. But I've not ever heard of anybody suggest that.

The republican talking point is not that we have policy ideas that they think are wrong and they disagree with. The republican talking point is that democrats are nutty conspracy theorists. This is all we got becuase it's all you need.

Flame on...I'm too disgusted to care.

[Chipster]

85. Voter Fraud is Not "Implausible Crap"

I wonder if you've missed the point of all this, which is that Dems will never win elections if the voting is rigged. I couldn't agree with you more that the very idea that widespread, computer-assisted vote fraud is crazy. But to suggest that we not examine that issue in the face of evidence because "it sounds kooky" is, well, kooky. That outlook ASSURES that we don't get the votes to win elections if indeed compromised equipment is used.

You wrote: "Statistically, we would have an even chance of having elections stolen FOR democrats. But I've not ever heard of anybody suggest that."

Are you suggesting that Democratic poll workers are privy to the know-how and have the media to do this? If so, could you substantiate this? You are arguing that vote fraud is random, however, the accumulated evidence suggests that voter fraud by Republican operatives is intentional, and executed through multiple means. It is not "implausible crap."

http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/ohioquotes.pdf#search=%22%22voter%22%20%22disenfranchisement%22%22

http://www.failureisimpossible.com/needtoknow/votehearings.htm

http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2400/

Here's a summary of some examples:

"The testimony of Database Technologies executive George Bruder was particularly incriminating. In his February 16 appearance before the commission, Bruder testified that the state Division of Elections set the criteria for people to be included on the list of supposed felons. He said Florida election officials were warned their criteria for a database would lead to many inaccuracies, but the officials “wanted false positives on search parameters to cast as broad a net as possible.”

Other findings cited by the Commission include:

* At least one police checkpoint was set up on election day near a polling station in a minority neighborhood, prompting voters to complain of police intimidation;

* College students and others submitted voter registration applications on a timely basis, but in many instances these applications were not processed in time for the applicants to receive voter registration cards;

* Many Jewish and elderly voters received defective and complicated ballots that may have produced “overvotes” and “undervotes;”

* Some polling places were closed early and some polling places were moved without notice;

* Many Haitian-American and Puerto Rican voters were not provided language assistance when required and requested;

* Persons with disabilities faced accessibility difficulties at certain polling sites.

Under the Voting Rights Act of 1965, it is not necessary to prove deliberate or intentional discrimination against citizens, only that certain practices resulted in the disenfranchisement of those whom the statute is designed to protect. Practices, the commission noted, “are illegal when they have the effect of restricting opportunities for people of color, language minorities, persons with disabilities, and the elderly to participate fully in the political process and to elect candidates of their choice.”

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/mar2001/vote-m10.shtml

Cumulatively speaking, there are simply too many coincidences for it to be random and statistically irrelevant.

There is no doubt that Dems must aggressively make their case and correct oppositional lies with facts immediately. But there is also no doubt that Bush is incompetent and that that American nation deserves and demands better results. Whether it's emergency management, fiscal management, Katrina relief, human rights, the environment, trade, energy, consumerism, Medicare drug plan, social programs, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, North Korea - what is this guy good for?

http://www.alternet.org/story/32382/

And lest you write that off as "Bush hating" this mid-term election is a referendum on support for his policies by implementation at the local level.

There is no doubt that Dems must articulate a range of positions on policy issues, based on our Democratic values, for voters to consider. Of course the Republican talking point is that Democrats are nutty conspiracy theorists. What else do they have to run on? There's certainly no coherent, substantive, principled record or plan to run on.

Discussing issues with discipline will not, however, assure Democratic victories in November without insuring the integrity of credible electoral processes and verifiable equipment, so it's not kooky - it's prudent - to demand them.

[LeahMira]

93. No flame...

... but it's really not necessary to compromise election results nationwide, or even statewide. Republicans must know that they aren't going to win them all by a landslide. It's possible for them to retain a majority in the House especially by tweaking votes in just a few key districts, and no one really knows which districts they will choose. Seems everyone was watching Florida in 2004, but we should have been watching Ohio just as closely. We probably really need to keep an eye on any race that looks like a close one.

There are good Republicans, but these neo-cons are not nice people. They don't play by anyone's rules and they won't give up power nicely. They already know they've lost the hearts and minds of the majority of U.S. citizens. All they need is for enough good people to say nothing.

[Donkeykick]

79. Unfortunately...

you're not going to see anything believable about this until Democrats get into office.:eyes:

[semillama]

89. Just got my Ohio voter info mailing.

Besides having a card to send in for an absentee ballot, there's also a big section on how awesome and trustworthy the new voting machines are. Coincidence?

Anyway, it was great motivation to send in for the absentee ballot. Probably an unintended consequence.

[truedelphi]

90. Glad you got your absentee ballot

In Marin County CA the absentee ballots were printed incorrectly by the printer - with the result that some Town of Fairfax absentee ballots were sent out late.

[semillama]

94. oh, i haven't got it yet

I've just applied for one.

Stakes are super high here in Ohio though. I don't know that I could stand living here with Gov. Blackwell.

[truedelphi]

95. Keep in mind that Tyranny must always FALL

And the tyrants along with it.