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Why is using the "b-word" Sexist?

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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:37 PM
Original message
Why is using the "b-word" Sexist?
I'm serious and would like some serious answers as to why that's sexist.
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Ptah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. I vote no
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miss_american_pie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. ...
:popcorn:
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khashka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. It's really not anymore
It used to be a way for men to demean women and "put them in their place". But more and more that word has lost its power and is used for men,too.

Khash.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. well, it's used for gay men
that hardly makes it not sexist, that just means that it is now homophobic as well, depending on context

your wife is at work, would you expect people to be calling her a bitch just for doing her job? or would you accept that calling her a bitch is a hostile act meant to make her feel like less valuable of a person

name calling is tacky and name calling to put women down is sexist period

it shouldn't be that hard to figure out

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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. er...well... yeah. It's used for men - to demean them by saying they are like a woman.
So, I fail to see how that's not sexist

:shrug:
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
61. yeah that's what i meant to say, iris
i expressed myself poorly, you expressed it well
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. funny, I thought you said it quite well!
Edited on Thu May-22-08 02:28 PM by Iris
:pals:
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. I'm sorry, I have to very strongly disagree.
It's still a very sexist word. It's still used mostly to demean women. And when it's used to demean men it's used to demean them as being less than manly.

It is used to belittle any sign of assertiveness in a woman.

I do sometimes hear it used in a casual or lighthearted way, but that doesn't mean it is only being used that way now, or even being used that way most of the time. I still mostly hear it used as a sexist attack on women.
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. "It is used to belittle any sign of assertiveness in a woman"
and also to belittle any perceived LACK of assertiveness when used towards a man.

What a fucked up work we've created for ourselves.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. That's an important point.
And when a guy is said to "Be someone's B****" it's an explicite reference to being "owned" like a submissive or abused girlfriend or wife. It is specifically a gender loaded term that refers to women being dominated by men even when it's used to insult men.
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khashka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
19. Yeah it's still used that way
but less so. Have you ever thought about the swear words we use, even when used against a man, they demean women. I think/hope I see a change. Slow, but happening.At last.

khash.
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. lol
So no one thinks it is? Good. I agree with you all.
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Ptah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Then you win. Discussion over.
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I don't want to win.
I want to understand the other point of view...
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Ptah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I was trying to say, that dead horse beating is old.
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. if this has been discussed before, I haven't seen it.
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Ptah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. You won big time.
A popcorn fest all your own.

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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #17
50. I dunno about that.
Lots of interesting discussion here. I'm going to have to read and respond later.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
9. As another DUer poignantly pointed out awhile ago
too many women have been beaten while a man yelled "bitch" at them.

It's just silly to deny that the word is sexist. It's also unnecessarily hateful when referring to a democratic candidate for President. Such characterizations just don't belong in GDP - and the mods agreed.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. It's not just silly to deny that it's sexist, it think it's naive.
Using the B word is just as bad as using any other slur, and should be taken just as seriously.

Meaning, if it's used among friends then that's fine, but everyone else should leave it alone. I don't mind if a friend calls me a fag or queer (though I don't encourage it), but God help anyone else who says it. The n-word is often used by friends, but it's still a slur if you say it to someone you don't know.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #16
25. Of course it's naive.
He's just trying to justify somebody calling Hillary Clinton a bitch in GDP. It's bad enough we have such hateful misogynists here, but even worse that others try to defend their obviously sexist crap.
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #25
82. so sad to me
that at a time when we should be celebrating the fact that our party has a black man and a woman as front-runners for our ticket, we resort to this sort of petty bullshit that's more suited to republicans and the like.
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #25
93. You're not a very good mind reader.
Edited on Thu May-22-08 06:49 PM by woolldog
I didn't say speaking about Hillary in that way was justified AT ALL. Nor was I trying to justify it. I was intrigued by the idea raised by some that it was sexist. It's unacceptable, but I'm not sure if it's sexist (reveals sexism) or misogynistic.

Please don't put words in my mouth or thoughts in my head when you have no idea. And I'll show you the same courtesy. Deal? Thanks. :hi:
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spindrifter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
13. Sadly, I saw a
young woman with the "b" word in letters about 2 inches high tattooed just below the collar line on the back of her neck. I was so appalled. Of course, she was proudly displaying this travesty.
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Connonym Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #13
24. I respectfully disagree
I think that a woman has the right to claim bitch as a "fuck you" to patriarchy. I'm happy to refer to myself as a bitch as long as men are going to throw the word around as an insult against women they find intimidating. If that's what they want to call a real woman, a woman who isn't deferential to men, then sign me up -- I'll consider myself a bitch. However, if a man calls me a bitch he'll have to deal with my wrath. A lot like the N word in that way. Only acceptable for self-expression in contempt of the status quo.
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BarenakedLady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. Exactly
It's just like any other insult that is reclaimed by the original target (the n word, dyke, etc.) It's a sense of empowerment, I believe.
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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #28
34. Well, a lot of blacks are moving away from calling themselves niggers.
Dave Chappelle, for one, IIRC. He walked away from his fabulously successful television show, and 50 million dollar contract with Comedy Central, because he realized that perpetuating sterotypes and hurtful names about blacks didn't empower them. He, and others, realized that they can try to reclaim the word all they want, but a large portion of white America still sees them as "niggers". They've only empowered white America more - how many times have you heard someone say "how come blacks can call themselves niggers but if I do, it's a big problem?"

I feel the same way about the word bitch. I don't see there ever being a benign use of that word, and when women call themselves "bitches" it only empowers misogynists - "hey, if she calls herself a bitch, why can't I?'".

IMO, women who proudly flaunt that word, and use it to describe themselves, hurt all women, whether they know or even care about it.

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BarenakedLady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. I was just explaining the phenomenon
Edited on Thu May-22-08 08:32 AM by BarenakedLady
Not whether or not I agreed with it. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.
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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. It's cool, I wasn't specifically addressing you, although I can see where it
came off that way. I'm sorry for the confusion, too. :hi:
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. That reminds me of a T-shirt I saw once that said:
I'm not A bitch

I'm THE bitch.

And that's MS. BITCH to you.
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spindrifter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
14. duplicate--deleted
Edited on Wed May-21-08 10:05 PM by spindrifter
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Connonym Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
20. It is because that's the way it feels to a woman
need there be any reason more than that?
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
59. nicely put.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #20
68. That's it.
Historically, the word has been used to degrade women, and though it has other uses, that may be how it feels to the recipient.
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
21. why is using the n-word racist? seriously. nt.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #21
36. ...
Thank you, Indy.
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:15 AM
Response to Original message
22. "bastard?"
i dunno
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #22
101. calling a man a bastard is implying his mother was a whore
or at least an unmarried woman.

still a slur against women

interesting how our language evolved eh?

:hi:
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hellbound-liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:52 AM
Response to Original message
23. On the lighter side, I once had a female supervisor who had a sign over her desk that said
Edited on Thu May-22-08 05:52 AM by irkthesmirk
"51%-Sweetheart, 49%-Bitch, Don't push it!" BTW, I agree that, since the word is used to demean women and "less assertive" men, it's use is often sexist.
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TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
26. I'm surprised how often I hear women assert
"I'm a bitch and I'm proud of it!" Huh? And once my BIL said that my family (mostly female) is a family of bitches..Didn't go over very well with me...:eyes:
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
27. Depends is the bastard word sexist?
I see bitch and bastard as the gender specific words that mean the same thing.
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kwassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. No, "bastard" is quite different
A woman can be called both a bastard and a bitch, technically.

Bitch has a lot of connotations that bastard doesn't, and has traditionally been used to put women down, where bastard hasn't put men down, but put down an individual down.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. Well unless you are referring to a femal dog, you are using the words in as slang
So the words mean different things to different people.
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #29
83. and bastard utlimately maligns, yet again, a woman
as in "your mama couldn't keep her legs shut and now you don't know who your daddy is"
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
30. I've heard the argument that using it on men (straight or gay) is still
demeaning towards women, therefore it's still sexist. It's saying that men are like women, therefore the women get hit twice.

That was obviously from a woman.

I'll agree that using the b word on a man, hits women twice. But the woman who made that assertion argued that men got hit 0 times and saying that it is sexist to consider it an insult to be like a woman. I strongly disagree with that. It's still hits men once. The b word is still offensive.

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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #30
38. So, are you saying that men *should* be insulted by being compared to a woman? Or not be
insulted? I'm not clear where you're at with this. Because my opinion is that a man should NOT be insulted by being compared to a woman. If you think he should be insulted, that's pretty, well..., insulting.
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #38
41. It is NOT insulting to be a woman, or a man, or a black person, or a muslim, or gay or whatever
but when you call someone by a term where the intent is to insult them, then that is insulting. A handy analogy would be the people who say it's not insulting to say Obama is Muslim or that Hillary is a lesbian because it's not insulting to be a Muslim or a lesbian.

Likewise, there are people who insult athletic or physically fit women by calling them names comparing them to men. It's not an insult to be compared to a man either, but the intent matters and the offensive terms matter.



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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. Okay, I get it now. Intent really does matter. Thanks for clarifying.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
33. You've got to be kidding.
It is a word that compares women to dogs if they decline to act submissive.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #33
48. thank you deep13.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #33
49. thank you deep13.
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bbernardini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
39. You have to understand, there are some here who think that saying ANYTHING negative about a woman...
...makes the speaker a misogynist. Sad, but true.
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #39
44. And that is incorrect why?
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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
40. Why don't you ask your mother?
Or better yet, since halfway through this thread you decided to listen to those who hold your preconceived idea that it is not sexist, why don't you walk up to your mom and grandmother and call them bitches. Then explain you mean it in the positive way. See how far that gets you.
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
42. Calling a woman a "female dog."
just doesn't work.
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #42
100. It's an insult to be sure...
I'm asking why it's "sexist."
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #100
102. Sigh.
forget about it.

I wouldn't raise the issue with any female friends, though.
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #102
136. thanks for trying, TD
:loveya:
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Dogtown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
45. you're a dick
does that help?
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Phillycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!
:thumbsup:
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #45
51. That's an interesting point.
I wonder if gender specific insults are per se sexist?

For example, I would never call a woman a "dick." It is a term I use for men I dislike. Just as you're using it for me, I assume you wouldn't call me that if you thought I was female. That begs the question to me whether that is sexist? My thought is that a gender specific insult like that isn't per se sexist.

What say you?
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. I think usually an -ist has to involve a power structure
where the one being the -ist (racist, sexist) has to belong to a group that has traditionally had power over the one being insulted.
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Dogtown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. Really?
i'm just being a non-gender specific smartass.
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #54
94. No. You were making a brilliant point
Edited on Thu May-22-08 06:57 PM by woolldog
under the guise of being a smart-ass. I thought it was quite clever of you.
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
47. It's a matter of intent and perception.
I don't say it as sexist. But if people hear it as sexist, then it's a problem.

But if the intent isn't there, whose problem is it?

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montanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
53. It's silly
"Dog" is the male hound, "Bitch" is the female hound. There is no problem with being a dog, but a big one with being a bitch.
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Help_I_Live_In_Idaho Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
55. Because so many people make a big deal out of nothing
Its a very handy word for expressing frustration. I like the word asshole for men too. But, (forgive the pun) you can't call a woman an asshole because even though she has one or might be one it is an innappropriate use of language. I perfer bitch for female assholes
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. yes, people on a progressive discussion board would never, ever suggest that words actually have
power.

Nope. won't happen here. no way.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. anyone who points sexism. racism, homophobia is whiney
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. yes because these things don't exist, nor do they cause any harm in our society
and ESPECIALLY not here!

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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. yes ofcourse one could argue that people who whine about not being able to use a sexist word
are actually being the real crybabies.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #64
73. I've survived for over 41 years now
without having to use the word "bitch" in regards to calling a woman one... or the "c" word for that matter. I've heard plenty of women refer to themselves as "bitch" though, when they think they did something wrong.

And, I don't say that somebody showing courage has "balls" - it's easy enough to say that they have "guts" or a "spine" or "backbone" or even "gumption"



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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. ...
:loveya: :thumbsup:
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. well
somehow, the words "balls" or "testicular fortitude" don't come to mind when I see or hear about a woman doing something courageous.

I guess something is wrong with me.
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Help_I_Live_In_Idaho Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #60
66. Well, I look at it this way...
I have been called every offensive name known to man in my 54 years. I used to fret and fume at the insensitive people who spouted insults. Then I studied cognitive therapy and realized that I had thoughts and beliefs about the concepts that the words evoked and those thoughts and beliefs - mostly about my own perceived inferiority and my hunger for status socially.

So what I did is I came to know myself - my strengths and weaknesses and accepted them. I came to realize that I was, like everyone else, just a fallible human being. I further realized that status, fallibility, inferiority and strengths are perceptual and phenomenological values are relative and therefore insignificant.

Now I can called anything, and knowing myself fairly well I am usually able to laugh it off. I remain against sexism, homophobia, racism and classicism but I don't demand books to be burned or words to be scorned, or speach to be censored. People will rise above themselves and then they will rise above the power of words. Only then will we actually be "progressive."
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #66
80. I'm not asking for anything to be burned. But when people use words to tear down groups of people,
I'll speak up because that's MY right. There are so many things that people say because no one challenges them. I personally learned to be less racist because people challenged my comments and attitudes.

Do I care what individuals say about me? Rarely. But I do care about allowing outdated and unproductive attitudes to continue just because that's always the way things have been.
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Help_I_Live_In_Idaho Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #80
113. I Totally agree - bullying is indefensable
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Help_I_Live_In_Idaho Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #58
114. Words definately have power - power to hurt - power to change
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
56. It's a gender specific term - that's why
Just like Bastard is sexist as well.
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #56
97. that's what I'm asking in post #51
Why is using a gender specific insult necessarily sexist?
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
57. We're going to have the Bitch wars again?
:banghead:
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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
63. Have you asked your mother yet?
I mean it. Ask your mother if "bitch" is sexist. I really want to know what she says to you.
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Help_I_Live_In_Idaho Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #63
67. My mother died two months ago
She would have laughed
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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. My mother died four years ago
and would have slapped my face.
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Help_I_Live_In_Idaho Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #69
112. Point well taken
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MAGICBULLET Donating Member (606 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
70. it IS demeaning
however, some people can be bitches pretty often.
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Help_I_Live_In_Idaho Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
71. I'll say it again - Read Above Post "Well I Look at it This Way"
You can't get anywhere advocating censorship - either you scorn and dispense with free speech - or you grow beyond it. There is nothing progressive about putting people in a position where they can't offend - Their words speak for their character. Without their offensive words - how would you know their true character? They would appear saints like you perhaps? Do way with your ego, not speech.
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Zuiderelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #71
78. What does that have to do with whether or not it's sexist. You could say the same of the n-word.
It wouldn't make it not racist.
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #78
81. exactly. And people who are offended have just as much right to free speech AGAINST offensive words
and attitudes at the offensive have to spew them off in all directions.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #78
107. There are negative terms for white people
But you do have a point. There is a level where it doesn't need an equivalent not to be an -ist word.

Bitch carries other stuff with it - it's not just being female, it's being a female acting a certain way. It would be sexist if anything, for that. The behavior that will get that label for a woman doesn't get any negative man-label.
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Help_I_Live_In_Idaho Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #78
111. I Agree the B word is sexist - so is the N word in the right contexts
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Zuiderelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #111
119. Say what? The N word is sexist in the right context? What context would that be?
Edited on Fri May-23-08 12:26 PM by PelosiFan
I suppose that the word "it" could be sexist in the right context if you stretch it far enough.
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Help_I_Live_In_Idaho Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #119
127. When a black guy uses it
Remember when folks used to say "brotha" - lot of time now its "nigga.":yoiks:
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Zuiderelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #127
128. It's not sexist in that context. Try again.
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Help_I_Live_In_Idaho Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #128
130. Wow - you got me there
Nice job :toast:
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Zuiderelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #130
132. You DO have a need to have the last word.
Hope you're having a lot of fun here. It's more fun to start off somewhere new by trying to understand where people are coming from instead of poking and prodding them to get some sort of reaction.

But you go ahead. Post away.
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Help_I_Live_In_Idaho Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #132
140. I'll keep that in mind
:grouphug:
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Phoonzang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
72. I view it as the feminine version of "asshole"
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Blue Diadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
76. Tell my little 9 year old granddaughter that it isn't sexist..
She just called me a bit ago to tell me she was scared because some big boys were laughing and calling her and her 9 yr old friend ugly little bitches. I saw the big boys..they're about 14-15 yrs old.

Sexist? Tell me why it's not.

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Zuiderelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
77. I don't think you really want serious answers.
:eyes:
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Help_I_Live_In_Idaho Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
79. Final Word
Bashflingin.

The most offensive word in the english language and it should be banned. People who use it should be condemned to death.









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Zuiderelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #79
85. Why don't you answer people who've responded to you already
Edited on Thu May-22-08 05:35 PM by PelosiFan
instead of continuing to post responses to the original post?
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. how would one get the final word that way?
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Zuiderelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #86
88. He'll have to keep posting then, if that's the mission.
;)
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Help_I_Live_In_Idaho Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #85
110. Valid Point - See my latest post
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
84. Nothing sexist
about 'bastard!'
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #84
87. except that it suggests your mother might have had sex out of marriage
which basically brings it around to be sexist against women
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trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
89. Bubba? Naw, I don't think so.
;-)
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Help_I_Live_In_Idaho Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
90. These are the people who believe in not offending anyone
Just like the person with homosexual feelings that secretly hates gays because he's afraid of his/her own hidden homosexual feelings, people who demand political correctness and a non-judgmental attitude are most allergic to love.

They secretly hate open duologue, free expression, free speech, and people who think differently while they take the position of a "tolerant" progressive.

They state that they are liberal and therefore believe in respect for all points of view, yet they have little tolerance and no respect for alternate points of view - They go to insults.

They are not liberal
They are not progressive
They want control and stifle free speech

But me, I'm worse.I wasn't true to my "last word." Let's keep this up. I have enjoyed this - let's keep our "tolerance" low and prove to those laughing conservatives our innate and subtle greatness.
:rofl:
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Zuiderelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #90
91. "Just like the person with homosexual feelings that secretly hates gays" Cute. You are pushing the
envelope, aren't you? :eyes:
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Help_I_Live_In_Idaho Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #91
109. No question about it - I love pushing the envelope - Maybe that was too far
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Zuiderelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #109
116. Yes, I would agree that saying something homophobic like that is pushing it too far. nt
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Help_I_Live_In_Idaho Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #116
124. Ditto
:cry:
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Zuiderelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #124
126. Ditto? So you agree that your remarks were homophobic?
Edited on Fri May-23-08 12:41 PM by PelosiFan
For some odd reason you think you are being funny.
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Help_I_Live_In_Idaho Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #126
129. NO
I was talking about a "reaction formation" a defense mechanism where a person punishes others to deny his own inner feelings that are the same as the person he is punishing. I don't have a homophobic bone in my body - I grew up in California with gay and lesbian friends and relivives. One of my specialties as a psychotherapist is gay and lesbian issues. I often do couples therapy with gay and lesbian couples. On the issue of Race I am a long standing member and chair of the Human rights task force in Idaho. I was instrumental is getting the Aryan nations out of Idaho and shutting them down. On the issue of the environment, I am a regional coordinator for a river conservation organization. On the issue of woman's equality I am a radical feminist and have been for 30 years. Don't let the "Idaho" label fool you. I'm just a free and critical thinker even where liberal issues are concerned. I am also an activist in the labor movement.
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Zuiderelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #129
133. Then you don't understand how generalizing about how homophobic people must be gay is homophobic.
Ok. Congratulations on all your accomplishments anyway. At least it's clear from your record that you are willing to learn.
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Help_I_Live_In_Idaho Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #133
141. Rocky - Help!
"Nothing up my sleeve"
"PRESTO" ---- GROWL
"I gota get another hat"

:yoiks:
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #90
92. I fail to see how calling people names is conducive to open dialogue.
Or how having standards in debate is a violation of free speech.
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #92
99. Oh the irony...
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #99
135. How so?
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Help_I_Live_In_Idaho Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #92
108. Standards are good - in most contexts
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #108
134. Which ones? The ones you condone?
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Help_I_Live_In_Idaho Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #134
143. Spank me baby - spank me
:spank:
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DarkTirade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #90
95. And there are those who get a big stiffy out of going online anonymously and trying to make people
angry... hmmm...
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #95
96. what I love about growing older
is that I get less angry and just become disdainfully amused.
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DarkTirade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #96
98. See, I started out just not caring a whole lot...
so that's a fairly natural state for me to fall into. :P
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Help_I_Live_In_Idaho Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #95
105. Threre is some truth to that
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Help_I_Live_In_Idaho Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
103. I admit - you are all right about many things
Words do have power to do harm and I should have responded to all of you individually. The problem is that I am at work and I only have small breaks between seeing clients. True, it would be a lot more fair to answer everyone.

In the interests of peace. I'll tell you all a story about the B word my wife told me posted to the end of the posts from the original post.

She was the boss of a corporation and an employee called her an Fing Bitch. She gave him his paycheck unsigned. He stormed up to the business a 6 PM and said "you Fing B - my check couldn't be cashed. She said - "mayee you should remember the bitch who signs them"

Anyway, I'm old like these other folks who posted and the truth is I don't get too riled up about stuff like this either. I just like to get people going on an argument that is really somewhat indefensible - such as using the B word is appropriate. Of course it is not defensible depending upon the context in which it is used. I never call a woman a bitch (except Ann Colter).

I think my point is really that, with practice, one can overcome the ill effects of words using the power of one's mind and that is better than creating a society in which people are afraid to be themselves.

You might find this hard to believe, but I love and respect women. I'm the only male in an office of 20 females. My wife and I are deeply committed to each other and respect each other deeply. We don't talk this way. And, regarding the women at work, I don't think the same as they and in many ways our values are different, but I enjoy them so much. I have never, not once called any of them by the B word.

I moved from California to Idaho 20 yeas ago, I lived through the 50s and 60s. I watched black folks beat with sticks. I saw the college protests. I saw all of the Kennedy's killed or assassinated. I was in riots. I supported women's rights at marches. I ate the tear gas.

Now, Ive been in idaho for 20 years. Here, you can't say "Damn," you can't say "Hell." You can't say anything progressive or liberal. When you speak at colleagues or universities, people are offended if you make a democratic or non conservative point to your audience you get gasps and shunning. Freedom of speech is dead and I just want people to remember what the costs are. I'm deeply sorry if I offended.

I just hope I started some people thinking on a deeper level about these issues. Because it really isn't about you or me. It is about global standards regarding expression. No using that word for me unless Its Ann Courter.
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Zuiderelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #103
131. It's easy to not get riled up about the term when it's never been used against you.
But it's awfully condescending when you discount others' offense at its use.
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #131
138. it would take certain amount of emotional maturity to realize that.
:shrug:
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Help_I_Live_In_Idaho Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #131
144. True
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
104. why dont we just go back to using the n word while we are it?
or calling gay men faggots.



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Help_I_Live_In_Idaho Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #104
117. Never
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #117
120. why not? i though you were all about lifting restrictions? and words cant hurt or demean
and other such bullshit?
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Help_I_Live_In_Idaho Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #120
125. I'm im a great mood today
I'm actually quite fallable - but dont tell anybody. They get mean too.:shrug:
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #125
137. believe it we know


"I'm actually quite fallable"

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Help_I_Live_In_Idaho Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #137
142. 10/4
;)
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
106. Why is this in the lounge?
I come here for funny.
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Help_I_Live_In_Idaho Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #106
121. It started out funny - Could have been - I guess we digressesd
:thumbsup:
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Lil Missy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
115. Because it is a derogatory and demeaning term directed toward women. And IS sexist.
Thanks. This took me a minute that I'm never going to get back.

And I think you are just stirring shit. :eyes:
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #115
118. no shit.
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Help_I_Live_In_Idaho Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #118
123. That is a naughty word
:toast:
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Help_I_Live_In_Idaho Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #115
122. Yes unless I am saying it to my computer - which I often do
:banghead:
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montanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #115
139. Bitch
Edited on Fri May-23-08 03:46 PM by montanto
is the name for a female hound, Dog, is the name for a male one.

"Doe, a deer, a female deer . . . "

Yes, we are sexist, we notice the difference between sexes.

That "Bitch" has become a derogatory term is natural. Every culture likes to deride people with animal names by way of reduction.

Sexism? Well, good luck getting rid of it. Best bet is to take up the weapons left behind by your enemies and use them against them.
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Lil Missy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
145. I'm serious too, and I will give you a serious answer.
I think you know the answer, and you are just being an ass.

So I gave it serious consideration, and alerted on this thread.
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-24-08 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #145
146. most mature response yet.
thanks, lil missy!
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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-24-08 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #145
147. And yet it's still here.
:eyes:
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-24-08 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
148. It means a female dog. Hence, it is sexist because it denotes a female, and deragatory because
when aimed at a woman demotes her to the status of a dog.
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