Stop equating single females with lesbianism. This is really getting

[FloridaPat]

boring. Why is it woman have to have husbands to be considered "normal"? Why do I have to have some man ruling my life when I can do it myself and have a lot more fun. And why do I have to have a boy friend?

I don't remember anyone commenting about Nader. Or Kuchinich.

[Beelzebud]

1. It's like that with any single person. Male or female.

I don't have a wife or kids either. I guess I'm a bad person for that, or something.

[Rainbow gatherer]

34. Blame Freud.

He took issues like this out of the church and put the label of neurosis on any lifestyles that didn't fit in with hetersexual mating and having children.

Ever hear of the crazy cad lady thing? It's all about the psychological term "projection".

[BiggJawn]

51. Yeah, I'm 48 and not married. Live alone. Don't "entertain".

To some people, that means I probably couldn't even BUY a "date", or I'm really deep in the closet.

Tried the "Married Thing" twice, didn't work out either time, finally learned better. But I still like girls! Just not too fond of the idea of being surgically joined at the hip to one anymore.

I'm a HELL of a lot more concerned with Miers' lack of ANY experience outside of clerking than I am about who she fucks.

[fooj]

2. It's insulting. Absolutely!

:spank:

Peace.

[devilgrrl]

8. It's especially insulting to gays!

When people spew shit like that - they're really saying that you aren't "normal" because gayness isn't "normal" - what a pile of crap!

[FloridaPat]

54. Yes, the other side of the coin. Actually I am totally sick of the whole

"gay" thing. My God, just let people alone with the ones they want to associate with. I am not even interested in who dates who let alone to get the energy up to actually try to stop someone from associating with those they like. Now that's not normal - trying to control other people because you don't like what they do. There are way too many people like that in this world.

[nvliberal]

3. And why

do people assume somebody who marries later in life is gay, and his wife is assumed to be a "beard"?

And why do people automatically assume that if one is married at a more "appropriate" age, one is NOT gay?

I swear this board sometimes is caught in a 1950s time warp...

[cally]

4. Agreed...nt

[mattclearing]

5. Why is it women have to be straight to be considered "normal"?

That's what it sounds like you're saying.

[FloridaPat]

55. No, I said they have to have husbands and kids to be normal.

Considering the people who are defining "normal", I do not want to be in that list. In fact, I don't think I've ever considered myself normal. But that's another story. Not gay either. Just a radical hippy who is not happy that the world has gone downhill since the 60's.

[RevCheesehead]

6. I can't believe how immature we are at times.

It's fucking embarassing.

Judge a woman by her sexuality, whether or not she gave birth, and her ability to be compassionate. After all, women don't have brains or a personality. :eyes:

[Gormy Cuss]

15. don't forget judging her by looks too.

The fact that Miers doesn't look like a Stepford wife is indicative of nothing. She does not photograph well but why is that an indictment? I'm much more concerned with her blind admiration of her boss.

[RevCheesehead]

18. Gormy, I don't even go there anymore.

Miers is prettier than I am. I don't know anything about her soul. Of course, I'm in the minority here, since everyone else on DU is perfect in every way.

[bobbieinok]

59. remember the 'rumors' about Janet Reno that were part of the RW?

[Behind the Aegis]

7. Heterosexism at its best.

It is the nature of the beast.

[cynatnite]

9. Thank you for saying it!

:)

It's ignorant to associate someone's marital status or lack of one to their sexual orientation.

[tanyev]

10. I don't think anyone here really cares, but if she is a lesbian it would

be an enormous slap in the face to the people who think George W. Bush speaks for God. That's the only angle I'm interested in.

[seabeyond]

11. tell you what florida, i will quit if you quit equating husband ruling

my life. and having less fun than you................k

[Caution]

16. thank you! speaking as a man married to a woman

it is definitely 100% safe to say there is no ruling being done by me in any way, shape or form.

[seabeyond]

19. bah hahahahah, ya ya i know but the nifty

he doesnt rule me i dont rule him. we both trust each other to do ourselves. makes for a wonderful partnership.

you are cute

[ArkDem]

21. My dad used to tell me, "Son, if a man tells you that he wears

the pants in a family, there's no telling what else he'll lie to you about"!

[MuseRider]

12. Thank you.

I was going to post something like this but was too busy busting my husband for associating health of women and marriage! Holy crap, where did he ever get an idea like that? Turns out he read it on a board and never ever thought about what that actually meant. :eyes: Men? Do you really believe that you are needed to complete a female? It is a freaking choice that some of us choose, not something required to make us total humans.

There is no insult to being a lesbian and frankly who cares? Except for the hypocrisy of the RWers I can't imagine her marital status means anything at all.

Edit to clarify Not being married does not make one a lesbian.

[Lisa]

39. yeah -- "a woman isn't complete until she marries a guy ..."

Then -- she's finished!

[MuseRider]

41. I remember when

our female retriever got bred accidentally on our deck and my husband said, "Well, she is a woman now." He has learned a lot since those early days, oh boy has he. Some of these things are so solid in our society that they come out of the mouths of normally progressive people. You could have knocked me over when I heard him say that. Thankfully he understood full well my outrage over that statement and has never said that again.

[Catherine Vincent]

46. How can your dog get bred "accidently"?

Was it forced to breed? Actually, come to think of it, most female dogs ARE forced to breed. But that's another thread.

[MuseRider]

61. She was spayed.

In essence, she was raped on our deck by a large male dog that jumped our fence. It was an agressive act, he tried to kill my other dogs. Ahhh, rural living.

[Catherine Vincent]

65. Oh wow.

Poor thing. Thanks for the explanation.

[jbnow]

45. There are studies that compare health

to marital statues. Married men are definitely healthier then single men.All studies show that.
For women they are mixed. One I read recently found that women who "keep the peace" are 4 times the risk of dying. I'll see if I can find that because it's a big deal.
OK, this isn't the study but mentions it:
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/100/105912.htm
The worst health risk was seen in women who hushed up when conflicts arose with their spouse. They said they usually or always silenced themselves in such situations.

Those women might have thought they were keeping the peace, but they paid dearly for it. Women who kept mum in marital conflicts had four times the risk of dying during the study, compared with women who spoke their minds

I'm not sure where your husband got it but some right wing groups do put out (flawed) studies showing married women are healthier but most scientific ones show some benefit only for HAPPILY married women if there is any at all.

I think HAPPY is the key and happily single would be a benefit as well.
I'm not sure why men's health is so dramatically better when married. Is it that having a wife makes them take better care of themselves, eat better, see doctors? Obviously traditional wife is stress reducing for men...if you come home to dinner made, house cleaned and all, but this goes beyond that.

[Moochy]

13. Workaholic

Her workaholic nature seems more indicative of a lack of a life.

I'd hardly call arriving at the office at 3:30 AM to start the day, and leavin at 10:00pm can be called normal.

[nvliberal]

24. It WILL be "normal"

if the administration has its way and guts all labor laws.

[spooky3]

43. this is indicative of another type of bias

Why do you assume you know anything about her life, what hand she was dealt, what choices she made, or why she made the choices she did?

Why is the fact that she didn't subordinate her career to someone else's and choose to spend time having kids and raising him the equivalent of a lack of a life?

One life model does not work for everyone. We need to be more accepting of a diversity of lifestyles.

[Moochy]

50. Silly me

Balance in all things ne? 14 hours of work per day is probably bordering on unhealthy.

Lack of a life = get to work at 3:30am, leave at 10pm.

Seems pretty safe to criticize someone based on life choices like that one.

I'm not even bringing up the fact that she's barren. :D

[King Coal]

14. I do remember this one guy who called Nader a lesbian.

But, I don't think too many believed him.

[Walt Starr]

17. It's not so much a biogotry thing as a generational thing

In her generation, being single he entire life made her sexually suspect.

It has more to do with sexual taboos and perception that more recent generations have lost.

[RevCheesehead]

22. Nope. In her generation, she'd be called a spinster..

the poor woman who couldn't get a man. I don't think the culture was preoccupied with homosexuality of women back then.

[MuseRider]

25. You sound like

Jenny Garp! Wasn't Sexual Suspect the name of her book?

[Walt Starr]

32. Yep

I loved The World According to Garp

:evilgrin:

[MuseRider]

33. Me too Walt,

me too. Thanks for reminding me of it. I may have to pull it down and read it again. Jenny Garp was a great character.

[Cleita]

20. Since I was thirty two when I got married (old back in those days)

you can imagine the flack I got. How people live their private lives and how they socialize is really no one's business, no matter what their sexual orientation is.

[spooky3]

44. exactly

[undergroundpanther]

23. Hmm

assuming single women are gay. That is some annoying patriarchy for you.I also hate it when men hear you are single "pressure" you as if you need a male in your life.
Why can't other people(men& churchy "cultural regressives *cough* conservative types) just quit nosing in and telling others "women" how to live.

If a woman wants to live unfettered by having to take care of a male who refuses to do housework that I'd say good for her.
If a woman does not want,like or desire top have children good for her.
Not everyone desires to parent kids and marry and not all women exist to take care of needy men or raise kids and some find no joy in making a family and would rather live differently. Remember the right to pursue happiness? It applies to women too. This is what makes a country free when you can live the way that makes you happy and I'd say happiness is what matters so cultural conservatism and patriarchy be damned.

[myrna minx]

26. Oh my god. she's SINGLE!?!

:eyes: Hear, hear, FloridaPAt. I can't believe people on this board are freaking out that a woman has decided not to marry. It's a choice people. So is she illegitimate because she doesn't file jointly? Sheesh. I guessed she'd be "normal" if she'd marry a man? Hmmm...nice progressive board. :eyes:

[texpatriot2004]

27. Being single does NOT mean your gay, or lesbian. My Miers

comment was just to say that her being single doesn't meet the image requirement (especially for "Conservatives") of a nice family picture. Get it?

Okay, look, I don't care if she is single - makes me no nevermind - but in politics, people look at how things look and family matters. I don't mean any disrespect to single women. I just think that, like it or not, there is an image factor in the public arena. You know what I mean?

[MADem]

82. DUPE, sorry

[MADem]

83. But it does fit the BUSH's FAVORITE GALS paradigm

Condi and Atty Miers are very similar: single, workaholics, who wear tailored clothing and very tight hairstyles. He seems to like their style...and Harriet is clearly a FAVORITE, she even got to go to the pig farm!



President George W. Bush tours a canyon with White House Staff Secretary Harriet Miers at his ranch in Crawford, Texas, Friday, Aug. 9, 2002.

[derby378]

28. I must be living under a rock

The only time I hear being a single woman associated with being a lesbian is in the context of a stand-up act, when a comedian jokes about her overbearing mother pushing her to get married because she fears her little darling will be increasingly susceptible to "forbidden fruit" or something like that.

[susanna]

73. No, it's for real...at least in my experience

especially in traditional "marry young" families.

[shenmue]

29. Right you are

Nothing wrong with being single. Some people can be really crude and should just grow up.

Someday we could have a great presidential candidate who is single and I don't know who'd be proud to vote for him or her just based on the political record. What a shame. I think this is due to the constant haranguing of the religious right in the past several years.

It'll be a great day when we have respect for people, period. Whether or not they are married. Not by butting into or judging their personal lives.

[Neshanic]

30. Big deal. It's equal opportunity. It's an oddity for a "family values"...

adminstration. Roberts got his share.

Really, the touchiness of people. She's never married and went to SMU? How did she pull that off?

[CornField]

31. Why do you hate lesbians?

[RevCheesehead]

35. I'm nominating this - because people NEED to read it.

[StellaBlue]

36. And it's unfair to lesbians

It seems that people whispering about single women being lesbians tends to imply that there is something worthy of hiding in being a lesbian, something 'bad' or to be pitied or a 'shame' or whatever.

Uck.

[Fla Dem]

47. Unfortunately there are still many neanderthals, RW conservatives

and evangelical religious people who do feel that way. Gayness, whether it is women or men is still not accepted as the norm. There are some people who will never see it any differently.

[StellaBlue]

48. It isn't 'the norm'

As all studies, surveys, etc., all around the world, tend to show 10-11% of the human population is homosexual... but it certainly isn't ABNORMAL, either, and definitely not WRONG. See the same studies. :)

These people are just wackos... they are probably the most flaming-gay-in-denial people on the planet. Self-loathing. Ugh.

[libnnc]

37. God forbid someone think you're a lesbian!

Such an insult! Why...I shudder at the thought! OF COURSE you're not gay!

get it? :think:


As a lesbian, I say, gee thanks...

not that there's anything WRONG with it...

[tx_dem41]

38. Oh cmon...its fun to be homophobic.

Quit being so PC. What's more important hating Bush or being principled? :sarcasm:

[DefenseLawyer]

40. Because just the idea

that Miers might be a lesbian, heck the idea that she might have KNOWN a lesbian, is enough to make a freeper's head explode. Of course you are exactly right in terms of "real life", but in politics exploding freeper heads are good for us, and darn fun to watch too. Using their prejudices against them is fair game as far as I'm concerned.

[Pacifist Patriot]

42. Why don't we take a balanced approach and stop equating...

any particular marital status with an ideal? I understand that as a married woman I am subject to far less scrutiny and don't risk assumptions laden with the contempt associated with homophobia.

But I also do not appreciate the assumption that as a married woman (or if I were in a monogomous heterosexual relationship) the man in my life is calling the shots and I am some sort of subject.

I think you'd have made a much stronger and more accurate plea if you had left out that sentence.

[Jamastiene]

49. I'm a lesbian and I agree with you. I know plenty of straight women who

don't feel the need to have a man in their lives at all times. I mean honestly, with the way a lot of married women talk, they are just the mommy for the new phase in the man's late pubescent (until death) life anyhow. Some married women are happy, but the vast majority do pretty much make the case that marriage and coupling isn't for everyone. That is the smart thing to do if you know what is right for you. If you don't want a boyfriend, it doesn't mean you are a lesbian. It just means you share the not wanting a boyfriend part, not why you don't want one.

[KnowerOfLogic]

52. And stop equating lesbianism with something bad. nt

[Neshanic]

53. Equating late married men with adopted kids with being gay....

So politically correct now are we so that just making fun the sexual orientation of a RW SCOTUS nominee is considered bad form?

I am gay, and I have people do the math on me every day. Not married, never seen with dates, and that's fine; but for heaven's sake don't ever make light of a woman whose whole life has seemed to be servile to Bush and his rise from an minor idiot to a full fledged corrupt imbecile.

Accusing people of "hating" lesbians, or being unfair has nothing to do with it. I don't hate lesbians, but find it hilarious to see seeemly endless sexual suspects as this gang's go to guys and in this case gal.

Maher did a great job on calling out the questions on Roberts, and so if Maher says something about her, he's a lesbian basher?

Lighten up, just because we have some fun with the parade of Bush's unexhaustive supply of possible and documented gay employees and a reporter plant, does not mean we are bashing lesbianism. It just means we are doing the math; just like is done on us.

If we are good enough to have as voters, and be the whipping boys and girls when needed to get a Democrats in power, we sure as Hell have the right to call 'em as we see 'em.

Even if is is joking about something like a spinster SCOTUS nominee.

[AlinPA]

56. I agree with you 100%. My daughter is always worrying about not being

married yet and I tell her not to worry. Just live her life. You never know when you meet a person that might be your partner, relax.

[gkhouston]

77. you really don't. By the time I hit 37, I figured that the

marriage-and-kids thing just wasn't going to happen for me, and I was okay with that. I wasn't even looking for somebody. After you've lived a while and seen a few awful marriages you realize that being single is not the horrible fate that popular culture would have us believe it is; sure beats the hell out of moving out of your house while your alcoholic husband's at work 'cause you're afraid of him (I helped a friend do this). And then *poof*, I fell in love and got married and had a kid.

[Berserker]

57. Stop equating single males with gays. This is really getting

boring. Why is it men have to have wifes to be considered "normal"? Why do I have to have some woman ruling my life when I can do it myself and have a lot more fun. And why do I have to have a girl friend?

[FloridaPat]

63. Great point! I agree completely!

[Delphinus]

58. I so agree.

I'm 47, I'm a mother (of an adult now), I'm a grandmother ... just not married. I've had some quality relationships, but I simply don't have the desire to be with someone constantly. I know I'm weird, but that's me.

[gkhouston]

78. you go, girl

after my mom was widowed, she said she didn't want to re-marry. At her age, she figured the men were either looking for a nurse or a purse. She was, however, open to the notion of "fooling around". Shocked my brother speechless... :rofl:

[Delphinus]

81. "A nurse or a purse" ...

love it!! :rofl:

No strings, or at least less strings, with the fooling around too. Sounds like your mom and I are "kindred spirits". :toast:

[Sequoia]

60. You know it !!!

When I hit the big Four-Oh, a guy told me something must be wrong with me becuase I wasn't married and didn't have any kids. Stupid. I did later on but not because I felt I needed to be in order to prove I was "okay". Men are such idiots sometimes. Well, maybe all the...never mind.

[expatriate]

62. Talk about the pot calling the pot a pot.

You get miffed over people assuming any single female is a Lesbian - yes, that's understandable. Then you make a similarly ignorant and prejudiced crack about married women being "ruled" by their husbands.

Who are you to point fingers, and then insist that nobody else do it.

That was a bloody insult to women who choose to be married, and who are married to men who are their friends, lovers and partners - not their kings. It is incorrect, and based in sexism against males.

So when you knock off the sexist crap like that, I'm sure people will be more than willing to consider your dictates about equating single females with Lesbianism.

[susanna]

75. I think there are only a few who caught that...

"ruling husbands" phrasing. I once kinda thought the same...then I met someone who really made me happy. I don't feel "ruled" at all; I feel listened to, supported and loved. Go figure.

Not that everyone should or wants to do what I did (get married). I surprised myself and darn near most of my family. ;-)

on edit: clarity

[journalist3072]

64. Thank you ! I totally agree. eom

[Mr_Spock]

66. Yeah.

Cut it out. :P

[Redstone]

67. Who told you that you have to have a boyfriend?

Not me. Do whatever you want to do.

redstone

[liberalhistorian]

68. I've been single all my adult life

and I've noticed that the older I get, the more people seem to comment. I think it's a lot better than it used to be, but it's still annoying as hell. People have the right to choose something as personal as whether or not they marry, without any interference from anyone else because IT'S NOT THEIR LIFE.

In my case, I just haven't met the right person yet; I'd consider marriage if I did. But I'm certainly not unhappy at all being single, and I think it's important to build a life and have a full life if you're single, and to recognize that no PERSON can make you happy, you have to do that for yourself. You have to be secure and content with yourself before you can have a successful relationship or marriage, that's a given.

So many divorces have happened because people married thinking they had to do so, or it was expected of them, etc., etc. without really waiting to see if it was the right person for them. And NO ONE should be stuck in a miserable marriage, that's hell on earth.

[susanna]

69. I didn't marry until 36...

...and lots of my family (very traditional, married young) figured I must be a lesbian. Seriously. Anyway, I did eventually marry, once I found my best friend. We are both secure in who we are, and needed a mate just as secure. No games. These days, finding someone like that can take a while. I do not regret waiting.

One thing that kind of annoyed me in your original post, though: my husband does not rule my life. He shares it with me, and I share his. No rule/overlord crap. Which I should point out is also an overgeneralization -- similar to older singles being gay/lesbian.

[Greyhound]

70. Ditto but I'm a man. Like "ewww, whats wrong with you?" n/t

[ultraist]

71. Marriage = a man "ruling your life?"

Not all marriages or relationships are comprised of one person ruling over another.

Granted, there are a lot of people out there, in unhealthy relationships, but it's not correct to assume ALL marriages and relationships are unhealthy.

I do agree though, that being single is not an indication of someone's sexual orientation or whether or not they are unhealthy/dysfunctional.

[susanna]

72. OK, you said it way better than I did.

You rule. :-)

[YouthInAsia]

74. yeah, I love being single with no kids. I can do whatever the hell I

want to do, WHENever the hell I want to do it. I can sit around in my underwear all day (like now!) if I feel in the mood to do so. I dont want some annoying man down my throat all the time. They're fun to date, but they've gotta go sometimes.

[Joe Chi Minh]

76. If you reject a particular bloke's advances,

that'll be clincher!

[pitohui]

79. you don't remember the whole get dennis a date thing?

certainly there were lots of comments about kuchinich, it was almost a joke that he would be difficult to match up because of the vegan diet etc.

everyone speculates abt everyone's sexuality, that is part of the human condition, i'm afraid

[RebelOne]

80. I couldn't have said it better myself.

I am a single female. I was married and had two children. But after my divorce, I decided I didn't need another man who was going to try to run my life. So I have been single for a long, long time.

[Nederland]

84. FYI

Lots of people commented on Nader and Kucinich being single.