Impeachment has to precede investigation

[babylonsister]

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/22436

Impeachment has to precede investigation
Submitted by davidswanson on Sun, 2007-05-13 01:39. Impeachment

By Carla Binion

Without impeachment there won't be serious investigation of Bush-Cheney's lawbreaking. Each day these two criminals remain in office, additional victims of their policies suffer and die.

The administration's war crimes and crimes against humanity -- their ongoing illegal war of aggression and torture policy -- can only be stopped with impeachment and the investigation that would follow.

The mainstream press fails to fully inform the American public. Folks who get their information via the Internet and other alternative sources are the only ones aware of the extent of the Bush-Cheney abuses and the need for impeachment.

The Bush administration's refusal to abide by the Geneva Conventions and comply with the International Criminal Court (ICC) set the stage for its war crimes and human rights violations. As independent journalist Dahr Jamail says in *Impeach the President: The Case Against Bush and Cheney*:

"By refusing to join the ICC, the United States finds itself in the company of several other nonmember states with records of horrific human rights abuses such as Libya, Saudi Arabia, China, North Korea, Sudan and Pakistan.

"As many as 192 states are signatories of the Geneva Conventions, including the U.S. -- although the U.S. is blatantly disregarding them with regards to Iraq."

more...

[intheflow]

1. Let me be the first to K&R.

I'd like a national count of how many states and cities have already voted to impeach this administration. That would be an interesting piece of national news--if only it would be reported in the CM.

[elocs]

2. There is not going to be impeachment without investigation first.

Other than here at DU, the country does not seem to be on fire for impeachment of either Bush or Cheney. If impeachment was of such paramount importance to the majority of this country you would find numerous Democratic representative falling all over each other to bring articles of impeachment because they would naturally be worried about being reelected. There may be widespread support for impeachment, but that support is soft among most Americans. The support for impeachment among most Americans will grow with investigations first, not impeachment.

[ccpup]

3. Exactly.

Continue allowing the Dems to turn over those rocks and, sooner than we think, I suspect, the American People will grow weary of yet ANOTHER scandal and breathe a collective "enough". Then we'll have one of the strongest cases for Impeachment/Removal from Office in American History.

[bonito]

7. Investigation is part of the impeachment process

The crimes have been committed impeachment will provide an open forum for the public to hear, thats the problem imo MSM but it will be difficult to hide or twist the facts there and yes it needs a 3/4 majority in the Senate but with the facts in the open for all to see lets see who would deny the truth in public, they'll all be on center stage including the Supreme Court Justice.

Check out this link from the American Bar Association on Inpeachment.http://www.abanet.org/publiced/impeach2.html Good stuff.

Q. What is the basic impeachment process?
A. The basic impeachment process is spelled out in the Constitution. In essence, the House of Representatives functions something like a grand jury, in that it weighs the evidence and determines whether it is sufficient to justify articles of impeachment (similar to an indictment) and a trial to determine whether the charged official is guilty or not guilty. This trial is held in the Senate, with the Senators serving as jurors. The basic process, then, is in broad outline similar to the process for bringing criminal charges against an individual through the judicial system. If impeachment proceedings are brought against the President, the Chief Justice presides, adding a "judicial" aspect.

However, principal actors in the process are not ordinary citizens acting as grand jurors and trial jurors, but rather political figures--elected officials who serve by virtue of their position, and not because they have been selected by the courts to serve in judgment. That inevitably introduces a "political" element not directly present in judicial trials

[krkaufman]

11. Exactly. If you lead with "impeachment", then it appears political.

If you lead with oversight, investigations follow, uncovering evidence, from which springs public support for... impeachment.

The one thing I *would* be looking at is prioritizing potential investigations based on which is most likely to achieve tangible "results." Identify the hypothetical BushCo actions that would warrant impeachment, and determine which investigation(s) would provide the strongest case for impeachment and most likely to produce usable evidence.

Also, on a parallel track, secondary and tertiary Democratic politicians (i.e. not any of the Presidential candidates) need to be continually reminding the media and the public that the Republicans set the bar for impeachment as simply providing false information in an official capacity -- regardless of whether the false information was related to any criminal actions or not.

Where's the website with the "Case for Impeachment" progress report? (Separate tracking lines for each hypothetical case, with links to news stories and investigations supporting each case.)

p.s. And, in preparation for the inevitable, someone needs to make the case that the inability to recall significant activities within your responsibility is criminally negligent... warranting impeachment. (See: Alberto Gonezalez)

[pat_k]

20. There is nothing to investigate on torture and spying. It's all on the public record.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/pat_k/22

[krkaufman]

23. Then those should be easy to document formally. Excellent.

[pberq]

14. impeachment must come first

". . .the country does not seem to be on fire for impeachment of either Bush or Cheney."

Why is this the case? As the OP points out, the country is a whole is not being informed by the MSM on the extent of the Bush/Cheney crimes. Theerefore, impeachment must come first in order to force the public investigation of these crimes.

[elocs]

24. Let's be real and honest here for a moment: impeachment is not going to come first.

Just because you really, really want something to happen badly enough does not mean it will happen (otherwise I would have won the Powerball). If impeachment now is such a no-brainer that is supported by an overwhelming majority of Americans you would find Democratic representatives falling all over each other to bring articles of impeachment. How many cosponsors does Kucinich have to impeach Cheney, which should have far more support. It was investigations that brought Nixon to the point of impeachment (Watergate anyone?) and investigations led to the impeachment of Clinton (the Republicans did not impeach him first, then investigate). So other than wishful thinking, what is the imperative reasoning behind impeachment before investigation?

[shallowthroat]

18. The people are on fire for impeachment

Despite the noticeable efforts by the mainstream media to stupefy every relevant issue in regards to Bush Admin policy, the people are waking up. The first swell started in the aftershocks of Hurricane Katrina and the unavoidable exposure of the Administrations ineptitude and dereliction of duty to the American people.

Here is a very recent poll on MSNBC concerning impeachment:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10562904/


Do you believe President Bush's actions justify impeachment? * 429482 responses

Yes, between the secret spying, the deceptions leading to war and more, there is plenty to justify putting him on trial.
88%

No, like any president, he has made a few missteps, but nothing approaching "high crimes and misdemeanors."
4.5%

No, the man has done absolutely nothing wrong. Impeachment would just be a political lynching.
6.1%

I don't know.
1.9%

I am seeing more and more of this everyday. The Democrats seem to be using the strategy of building up a collection of investigation and inquiries into the Bushies and GOP until the calls for impeachment reach critical mass. At that time they will cite the public as the impetus for proceedings to remove the turncoats from office.

[GOTV]

22. That was an online poll and thus not worth the paper it was printed on n/t

[partylessinOhio]

4. BRAVO! The clock is ticking and IF there is no movement NOW

to impeach these criminals it will NEVER happen. The deaths and damage to America is happening now - what are we waiting for? To let these criminals skate?

Wake up, America!

[Monkeyman]

5. K&R

[Loge23]

6. Keep the pressure on

Email, call, and/or write to your representatives regularly.
Tell them you are not settling for anything less than impeachment.
It sounds monotonous but it's really the only way to reach them.

[OneBlueSky]

8. absolutely correct . . . when will Congress wake up and smell the oil? . . .

then again, it's probably hard to smell when you're swimming in it . . .

[Demeter]

How Much Investigation Will It Take?

The GOP is practically destroyed, as is the Constitution and the economy at home and increasingly abroad. Bush confessed on national TV to crimes against the Constitution!

Enough already!

[Demeter]

9. double-click ooops

[camero]

10. K&R

This should go on the home page

[Senator]

12. On Torture and Spying There is Nothing to "Investigate"

The regime freely admits to these actions. They simply claim they have the right to commit war crimes and illegally spy on Americans.

And without impeachment, they do.

==

[Vidar]

13. Great post gratefully recommended.

[lonestarnot]

15. Yessss!

[GOTV]

16. Just like invasion should precede investigation. That worked out really well too! n/t

[SaveOurDemocracy]

17. It's the only way to demand their accountability ...

To this point they've refused to comply with investigations. How can you get to the evidence if they are allowed to defy requests for information?? These people believe themselves above the law. How can an investigation succeed if people are allowed to refuse to appear and answer questions?

[pat_k]

19. And "investigation" is nothing more than gathering/presenting. . .

. . .the Bush/Cheney public record and public statements on torture and spying.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/pat_k/22">Like squatters, Bush and Cheney are laying claim to unconstitutional power through openly hostile possession. (With the emphasis on "open.") They openly and blatantly do something we forbid under the constitution (torture, spy, abuse signing statements to nullify law), claim they "own" the power to do it and dare our representatives to contradict them -- and ONLY impeachment can say "no, that power is forbidden to you."

. . .By refusing to stand up for We the People, the true owners of this nation, Members of Congress have created a national crisis graver than any natural disaster or social ill. It is bigger than any international crisis. By tolerating the intolerable, they are surrendering our capacity to recover from disaster with humanity, solve our common problems in ways that reflect our common values, and serve as a force for good in the world. When the good will of the American people is cut out of the loop, no peoples, not our fellow Americans, not other nations, can look to us for help.

Surrendering your property to squatters without a fight is insanity, but that insanity doesn't compare to the magnitude of the insanity of surrendering a nation without a fight. But that is precisely what Members of Congress are doing when they say that the immediate impeachment of Bush and Cheney can't, won't, or shouldn't happen.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/pat_k/23">More. . .

[RestoreGore]

21. To not impeach is to be a traitor to your Constitutional oath

And no more excuses will suffice.

[elocs]

25. Then my senator, Russ Feingold must be a traitor by your definition.

Yes, I realize he is a senator, but he does not favor impeachment. Since he took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution, under your argument shouldn't he be pressing for impeachment now? You are entitled to your opinion, but I am agreement with Senator Feingold who stood up against even his own party in voting against the Patriot Act because of Constitutional issues. Were all of the others who voted for the Patriot Act traitors too? Words are cheap and easy to throw around.

[RestoreGore]

26. I meant what I typed

And yes, words are sure cheap and easy to throw around, and Congress proves that every day.