AP: Obama chooses Biden as running mate

[orleans]

Source: MSNBC.COM

Foreign Relations Committee chairman has globe-trotting credentials

MSNBC staff and news service reports
updated 6 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - The Associated Press has learned that Delaware Senator Joe Biden is Barack Obama's choice to be his vice presidential running mate.

Biden, who has served in the Senate since being elected at the age of 29, is the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee and will add his foreign policy expertise to the Democratic ticket.

In recent years, he has traveled to Afghanistan and Pakistan two times and to Iraq eight times. He returned Monday from a fact-finding trip to Georgia.



Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26010055/

[LiberalHeart]

1. So supporters weren't the first to know?

[Alexander]

2. This headline is false. The MSM said it was Reagan/Ford in '80 and Kerry/Gephardt in '04.

They were wrong both times.

Yet half of DU is jumping overboard in the certainty that the MSM is somehow right on this one.

:eyes:

I'll believe it when Obama tells me it's true.

[L. Coyote]

20. Brilliant choice!! Here is the image on barackobama.com

https://donate.barackobama.com/page/contribute/splashone

[Alexander]

72. Actually it's a horrible choice. But I'll still vote for that ticket.

Biden will hurt us, not help us.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

107. anyone ever tell you that

you are full o' this? Wait. I typed that wrong. SHIT. there we go.

[Name removed]

145. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

148. so we agree to disagree. Biden was my top choice since 2007.

He will be a fine VP, an asset to the campaign, and a great adviser to Obama.

[LiberalFighter]

189. I disagree with your statement that Pelosi made up the list.

Pelosi doesn't have enough power to dictate to ANY Senator what will go down.

[philly_bob]

193. Remembering Clarence Thomas hearings...

You say he made a backroom deal. Any details?

By their very nature, I don't know about any backroom deals, so I can't comment on that.

But in the hearing itself, he was on the right side. I especially remember how handled this witness whose testimony was, basically, that Clarence Thomas was so cool that he could have had any woman, so why would he harass Anita Hill? It was ugly.

Biden sliced this guy to ribbons, with a wolfish grin. I thought: "I want him on my side."

I think Biden will fight for women's issues in the debates and (if we win) in office. I hope you'll feel more kindly to him when he wins some battles for us.

Admittedly, I'm a bit of a fan because I live in the state next to his and have been watching him for a long time.

You're absolutely right about the bankruptcy bill. It was indefensible. It knocked him out of presidential contention.

[rucognizant]

233. Hi Philly Bob

Jersey Pat here, now Maine PAt and for 20 years Philly Pat.
I too remember the Thomas hearings I had just moved to Maine and the plumber and my daughter & I listened to the whole thng through for 2 days. ( well the ;plumber only stayed for one, but he just charged for several hours of work and the rest of time sat & listened fascinated.)
That was when I delveloped an animus for Orin Hatch, Strom Thurmond and several others!
A reminder.in the book Blinded by the Right, David Brock tells how his book against Anita Hill, was more fiction than fact, and reveals that he later became aware of Thomas' fondness for porn!
The Banckruptcy billwasn't terrific, but condsidering how my two Senators in Maine totally embraced it.......AND BUSH, I see where he can take a different tack.

[philly_bob]

259. I had a neighbor complain about having the TV too loud during the hearings.

Lived in a small NY City apartment.

I remember well the sleaziness of Hatch & Thurmond.

Clarence Thomas for Thurgood Marshall! What a joke.

[defendandprotect]

235. Yes ... there are many details --- see "Strange Justice" by Jane Mayer who wrote ....

the fantastic newd book "The Dark Side" --- the new book on Cheney and the administration ---

I believe she was one of the co-authors of "Strange Justice" ---

and I'm really surprised that more here aren't familiar with that book -- !!!

As to some of the details --- and it's been a while since I've read the book ---

Biden had engaged in discussions with Prof. Anita Hill and her legal team and those
many representing her that the witnesses for their side AGAINST Clarence Thomas would
be heard.

Rather than doing that --- witnesses who would have SUNK Clarence Thomas and shown him
to be the pervert he is --- Biden let a guy trying to claim that Anita Hill -- "a little
nutty and a little slutty" being introduced here --- had been chasing after him.

After letting this guy go on for hours --- into the wee hours of the morning --
Biden would not call the Hill witnesses. That was it!!

And the guy he let slash Anita Hill for hours finally admitted he couldn't recall whether
Anita Hill had called him or he had called her!

In other words, Biden let a farce go on which harmed Prof. Hill while he did not permit
truly valid witnesses to be presented --- witnesses who would have specifically testified
as to Thomas' nature -- his constant sexual harassment of women at the EEOC.

Read the book --- it's quite something to see this history --

but a sad history of Biden ---

It was utter betrayal of not only his personal committments, not only women --- but the
nation!!!

And, the biggest hand played for the GOP side ---

[philly_bob]

263. Thanks for cite, D&P. I respect Mayer. Time for another look at Hill hearings?

The only thing I can say without having read Mayer's account is we have to make a distinction between (1) hideously corrupt neocon Republicans and (2) Democrats who didn't fight effectively against hideously corrupt neocon Republicans. I count myself in that second category.

Sounds like Mayer is saying Biden also belongs in category 2. Considering all the damage Thomas has caused, I would like to think Biden has learned something from that losing battle.

And I still think he was the most effective Democrat in those hearings, but that's based on 20-year-old impressions, and I'd like to hear others' memories.

I'd especially like to see those hearings made available on CSPAN or somewhere. In retrospect, I (1) wonder if the sexual harassment issue obscured other issues like legal philosophy and (2) remember the cool poise of Hill, and her subsequent dignified career (she's now at Brandeis).

[Vattel]

268. I agree

Biden rocked in the Clarence Thomas nomination process. The only senator among the group that did.

[defendandprotect]

236. Let me suggest that we ALL call out comments like this --- !!! Is this what DU wants to be?

[snake in the grass]

247. Alexander is right.

I would never have believed he would give it to Biden as Biden is another Bush rubber stamp who puts his foot in his mouth almost every time he opens it and this is truly a blow to those who wanted real, progressive change. I'm voting for them but only because the alternative is unspeakable. I don't expect much change coming from this duo but I am willing to be surprised. The Russians say that hope is the last thing that dies. With this pick it is obvious that hope is really the only thing we have left. I sure wish we had more than that.

[pattmarty]

113. Elaborate please. Politically speaking I think he's a good choice.

[Herman74]

203. Okay, I'll Elaborate

1) The Repugnants can run commercials showing Biden attacking Obama when both were candidates for the Democratic Nominee, and use anti-Obama quotes that Biden likely said;
2) Biden has past plagiarism issues (though I concede these were some time ago, still, Rush & Co. will bring them up)
3) Biden does nothing to help win any toss-up state (Recall how LBJ secured the victory for JFK by putting Texas in the Dem column?)
4) Biden voted for the Iraq war, and now how is Obama going to attack McCain for doing the same?
5) Biden pisses off the base by voting for the credit card companies, campaign donations will now not be as high as they could have been
6) Biden has said some strange things at points
7) Biden doesn't seem to me to be a messenger for *change*
8) Now let me state that I AM DEFINITELY NOT ageist, but understand that some in the country may well be. And will Biden himself without a doubt feel like running for president after 2 Obama terms at the age of 73?
9) There were better candidates available. Clark especially, but also Richardson (who I don't think really attacked Obama much while a candidate), Senator Brown of Ohio, Sebelius, Kaine, etc.

[SOS]

218. Re Point #1

The McCain ads showing Biden praising McCain and dissing Obama are already on air.

They had 'em made up in advance.

On your other points, you are precise on each and every one.

Oh well, at least we've got Delaware wrapped up.

[zbdent]

303. Um ... weren't there news reports Friday that Obama wanted someone who

would challenge him, not be a yes-man?

So Joe Biden calls Obama on his "inexperience" ... I would think that Biden would then advise him if he thought Obama was making a bad decision where some experience would come in ...

That's the way I see it ... and I would love to point that out to the people who quote the McClame ad ... "Biden wasn't the guy who was in charge of vetting the VP choices like Cheney was, right?"

[WriteDown]

226. You summed it up perfectly....

I couldn't have put it as succinct as you.

[defendandprotect]

232. Could have been worse . . . but Biden is DLC which is alarming ---

Now half of Obama's contributions came from the public and they're rewarded with a DLC VP--!!!

Biden is also too old for this -- 73?

And he's already suffered a brain aneurysm --

This is also the guy who should have prevented Clarence Thomas from reaching the Supreme Court
and he betrayed Anita Hill and many of the lawyers he had made commitments to regarding
allowing witnesses against Clarence Thomas to come forward.

Rather than honoring those "by his word" commitments, he turned and presented trash-talking
against Prof. Anita Hill ---

and the true trash ended up on the Supreme Court ---

and just coincidentally turned out to be one of the Gang of 5 votes which put Bush in the
White House ---!!!

If you want more betrayal, Biden is the way to go ---

Nice guy -- personable - if you really don't know him ---

and what foolish statements he made re Obama in the primaries!!!!

It looks like a DLC/Money Men choice ---

In other words, Obama made a poor choice here --

[George II]

242. Here we go again!!!! Cue the "DLC" Bashing!!

Psst, Biden isn't 73, he's 65, about 8 years younger than McCain.

Read Biden's interrogations of the witnesses during the Thomas hearing and report back to us, okay?

Biden is PERFECT for the job, for VP or President.

I notice you bashed Biden but didn't provide an alternative. Could it be no one is acceptable to you? (uh oh, here come Kucinich, I'm sure!!)

[defendandprotect]

258. The DLC is the CORPORATE-WING of the Democratic Party and the center . . .

of Democratic Party betrayals . . .

Notice I put a question mark after 73 . . . ???? i.e., 73/?

Maybe you should read something on the Biden/Thomas hearing ---

try "Strange Justice" which was co-written by Jane Mayer who just did "The Dark Side" --- !!!

Biden blocked the witnesses from coming forward who would have confrimed that Thomas

is a huge pervert and what his actual behavior at the EEOC was.

Biden also permitted Hatch and Simpson and other GOP to have a field day attacking

Hill as "a little bit nutty and a little bit slutty" in every way possible without

his interceding.

I watched every moment of those hearings --- so I'd suggest YOU get caught up on what

really went down -- BETRAYAL by Biden.

If you want more Pelosi/Reid-DLC betrayal, Biden is your man --- !!!


Biden also hasn't spoken out for universal health care ---

Just what is it that you think you're gaining here via a man who has spent his life

in the Senate making deals?




Or are you suggesting this is change?

[George II]

274. Well DAMN, you convinced me! Thanks to you I'm voting for McCain (HAHAHA!!!)

You said, quote:

"Biden is also too old for this -- 73?"

Too old at 65? Were you not sure that he was 73, or maybe 72, or maybe 74?

Allowed Hatch and Simpson attack Hill? Do you know the rules of Senate hearings? In order to stop them from speaking they'd have to probably go as far as calling her a fucking whore - anything less than that and they have to be allowed to speak.

If you watched every moment of those hearings, how could you have missed this? Here's Thomas talking about the very first question to him during the hearings, from Senator Joseph Biden:

"Senator Biden was the first questioner. Instead of the softball questions he’d promised to ask, he threw a beanball straight at my head, quoting from a speech that I’d given four years earlier at the Pacific Legal Foundation and challenging me to defend what I’d said: “ ‘I find attractive the arguments of scholars such as Stephen Macedo, who defend an activist Supreme Court that would . . . strike down laws restricting property right.’ ” That caught me off guard, and I had no recollection of making so atypical a statement, which shook me up even more. “Now, it would seem to me what you were talking about,” Senator Biden went on to say, “is you find attractive the fact that they are activists and they would like to strike down existing laws that impact on restricting the use of property rights, because you know, that is what they write about.” "

If you watched every moment of those hearings, perhaps you dozed off during the vote in which Biden voted NO to sending Thomas' nomination to the full Senate and he also voted AGAINST his nomination during the full Senate vote.

"Betrayal by Biden"??? :rofl:

[defendandprotect]

309. Maybe you missed the GOP readings from "The Exorcist" . . . .

and the suggestions that Hill was probably using some of the dialogue to dress up her
charges against Thomas?


Maybe you missed Simpson suggesting that information defaming Hill was "being thrown
in over the transom of his office in heaping piles" --- ?

Maybe you missed the GOP framing Prof. Hill as " a little bit nutty and a little bit slutty" - ??

No, Biden did not defend Hill from any of that -- he just let it go on and on.


As for Biden's questions to Thomas . . . did he ask him why his fellow students at Yale well
knew him to be a "lover of hard core porn" --- and a frequenter of the porn booths?

Did Biden ask Thomas if "eat from my ass with a spoon" was one of his favorite sayings as
suggested by a number of Clarence Thomas' FRIENDS????


Responding to the puerile comments ---

I'll be voting for Obama just as we voted for the Democrats in 2006 --
most of us notice some BETRAYAL, however, by Reid/Pelosi --- and DLC ---
So what I'm saying to you is . . . VOTE, but don't be suprised that you get more of the same.

Someone mentioned that Biden was 73 . . . I queried that with a 73/?
I'm responding to that because it seems so important to you ---

True, Biden did vote "NO" on Thomas --- but he permitted Thomas's name to come to the floor
rather than holding a private hearing, making clear that Thomas was unsuitable, and moving on
to the next nominee.





Well DAMN, you convinced me! Thanks to you I'm voting for McCain (HAHAHA!!!)
You said, quote:

"Biden is also too old for this -- 73?"

Too old at 65? Were you not sure that he was 73, or maybe 72, or maybe 74?

Allowed Hatch and Simpson attack Hill? Do you know the rules of Senate hearings? In order to stop them from speaking they'd have to probably go as far as calling her a fucking whore - anything less than that and they have to be allowed to speak.


If you watched every moment of those hearings, how could you have missed this? Here's Thomas talking about the very first question to him during the hearings, from Senator Joseph Biden:

"Senator Biden was the first questioner. Instead of the softball questions he’d promised to ask, he threw a beanball straight at my head, quoting from a speech that I’d given four years earlier at the Pacific Legal Foundation and challenging me to defend what I’d said: “ ‘I find attractive the arguments of scholars such as Stephen Macedo, who defend an activist Supreme Court that would . . . strike down laws restricting property right.’ ” That caught me off guard, and I had no recollection of making so atypical a statement, which shook me up even more. “Now, it would seem to me what you were talking about,” Senator Biden went on to say, “is you find attractive the fact that they are activists and they would like to strike down existing laws that impact on restricting the use of property rights, because you know, that is what they write about.” "

If you watched every moment of those hearings, perhaps you dozed off during the vote in which Biden voted NO to sending Thomas' nomination to the full Senate and he also voted AGAINST his nomination during the full Senate vote.

"Betrayal by Biden"???

[George II]

316. As I said in my previous post....

...it takes a very extreme comment to be shut down during a Senate Hearing. From what I read in your latest tome here, it appears that you would have preferred to have written Biden's speech and list of questions.

Bottom line, Biden asked some pretty tough questions, voted NO to send to the full Senate and NO on the confirmation vote. To you, however, that wasn't enough. What would have been enough? Lynching on the floor of the Senate?

By the way, tell me, are Obama or Biden members of this DLC you seem so obsessed about?

Finally, I will vote, and any "Democrat" who thinks Obama/Biden will be "more of the same" after eight years of bush/Cheney is delusional!

[defendandprotect]

321. Again, should these hearings ever be played in full, the nation would be shocked ---

and rightly so ---

WHERE would we ever see again someone waving a "The Exorcist" and suggesting that a witness
bringing information and evidence to the committee was simply engaging in a sham taken from
a book about the devil? If you don't find that extreme, you're avoiding reality.


...it takes a very extreme comment to be shut down during a Senate Hearing. From what I read in your latest tome here, it appears that you would have preferred to have written Biden's speech and list of questions.

I would prefer that YOU understand the nature of the PERVERSIONS of Clarence Thomas --- and
they had little to do with the question posed by Biden!

And re this . . .

Bottom line, Biden asked some pretty tough questions, voted NO to send to the full Senate and NO on the confirmation vote. To you, however, that wasn't enough. What would have been enough? Lynching on the floor of the Senate?

Evidently, you didn't read or understand that Biden BLOCKED the Hill witnesses --- members of
the EEOC --- from coming forward to testify as to the atrocious behavior displayed by Thomas
at the EEOC and his sexual harassment of women there . . . ???? Or are you ignoring that info?

Biden should have arranged that the Hill witnesses be heard in private by all the members of the
Committee -- and if that didn't stop the nomination then get the info/details of their testimony
out to the public and the full Senate. In other words . . . ensure that such a PERVERTED
individual as Clarence Thomas not reach the Supreme Court!

And are you actually saying here . . .

By the way, tell me, are Obama or Biden members of this DLC you seem so obsessed about?

that you don't understand what the DLC is . . . ?

The DLC is the corporate-wing of the Democratic Party whose agenda is to move the party to
the right -- i.e., to deliver "Republican almost lite" to you . . .

Evidently Obama is not a member --- Biden is ---

Re this . . .

Finally, I will vote, and any "Democrat" who thinks Obama/Biden will be "more of the same" after eight years of bush/Cheney is delusional!

The 2006 vote produced a Democratic congress -- but little change --
Pelosi/Reid reversed course the moment they were elected ---
If you want more of that, you'll get it with Biden ---

[George II]

322. You remind me of Barry Goldwater, in his nomination acceptance speech!

...Buh bye!

[defendandprotect]

326. Memories having nothing to do with the discussion, obviously . . .

but maybe no one will notice ---

:eyes:

[George II]

327. What?

You're droning on your fantasy about what Biden "did", which is totally untrue, about 20 years ago, and now you're saying "memories having nothing to do with the discussion"?

Nice going, Al Zheimer. Listen, you're not going to get over your misguided obsession of Biden and this mystical DLC, that's all too clear. So, you vote your way, I'll vote mine. Case closed.

P.S. - you don't even get the Goldwater connection, do you? :shrug:


:rofl:

[defendandprotect]

330. You're right . . . I certainly don't get a Goldwater connection to the Thomas hearings . . .

and the failure by Biden to permit the witnesses from the EEOC against Thomas to appear --

[George II]

331. The Goldwater connection was in reference to your attitude toward the DEMOCRATIC Party:

"extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."

[defendandprotect]

332. So the fact that Biden didn't permit witnesses against Thomas to be heard . . . .

reminds you of extremism on the part of a poster telling you about it -- ?

Clear thinking there . . . !!!

[George II]

333. Nooooo, you're mixing issues again...

...the discussion evolved into a berating of the DLC and the fact that it appears that nothing other than the extreme left is good enough for you.

But, back to Biden and the hearings - two things (one I've already expressed):

1. Even though Biden asked very tough questions and voted against the nomination both in committee and the full Senate isn't good enough for you. ALL the blame for Thomas getting confirmed falls right on Biden's shoulders (?) Remember, even though Biden was chairman of the committee at the time, there were 15 members of the committee and 100 members of the Senate. Biden did his job and did it very well on THREE occasions during that period.

2. You keep going on about Biden not permitting witnesses against Thomas to be heard. Care to share the circumstances and witnesses in question? Don't have time to go on another wild-goose chase.

Thanks.

[defendandprotect]

337. Are you a DLC supporter . . . .?

and are you suggesting that to oppose corporate interests in the Democratic party is to be
part of the "extreme left" --- ?

Whatever that means to you, at any rate . . . ?
Maybe you should define that thinking -- ?

You don't seem to get the idea that Biden made commitments to Hill's legal team and
also informed the public that the witnesses would be heard.
Biden broke that commitment . . . .

The Hearings were about "SEXUAL HARASSMENT" . . . .

The evidence presented by Hill and her legal team and the witnesses should have been heard
in private --- before they were FORCED to open the hearings, before they were forced to
have the hearings. And I presume you know how that came about?

In other words, the very evidence of almost a dozen or so witnesses testifying to the truth
about Clarence Thomas' SEXUAL HARASSMENT" of somen at the EEOC would have stopped the
nomination. That's what should have been done.

As Sen. Paul Simon said later -- "had they known at the beginning what they learned
about Clarence Thomas later, he would not have been considered."

All Biden had to do was to follow his commitment to the lawyers on the Hill side
and the Clarence Thomas nomination would have been over.


As to the witnesses for the Hill side -- these were former EEOC and government workers
who were witnesses to Thomas sexual comments and harassment of females -- some as
witnesses, some having experienced it personally. At least one was an EEOC speech writer.
There were approximately a dozen or so of them.

You can find all the info on this in a book which Jane Mayer/"The Dark Side" co-wrote with
others ... it's called "Strange Justice" ---

Your library will probably have it ---



Yes there was GOP pressure --- in fact there was pretty much a GOP circus going on slandering
Hill. But Biden and the Democrats should have and could have put an immediate STOP to it all
by permitting the witnesses to testify.

[George II]

338. I actually have no opinion on the DLC, but...

....now that I've read up on it, it seems the only people who are against it are those who are against it, but I haven't seen one single articulated reason why they're against it.

All I see is the oft-repeated "they're the corporate-wing of the Democratic Party". However, try as I might I can't find any direct reference to the DLC on the Democratic National Committee's website, but I do see a number of comments saying that the DLC certainly is NOT part of the Democratic Party! So, where does this characterization of the DLC being a "wing" of the Democratic Party come from? Lacking any definitive answer, I'd have to assume that the only people who continue to claim it is are disgruntled democratic (with a small "d") extremists.

Now, to address some of your specific points:

"are you suggesting that to oppose corporate interests in the Democratic party is to be part of the "extreme left" --- ?"

No, but your reference now to "corporate interests" in lieu of "corporate-wing" is different. I don't think there is a single entity in this country that does not contain "corporate interests", from the Catholic Church, Baptist Church, United Way, to General Motors, Boeing, IBM, etc....

Whatever that means to you, at any rate . . . ?

See my intro - an undefined loathing and characterization of something without specific reasons leads one to think that the person expressing those thoughts is an "extremist" in my mind. Now, if we could ever get some of those DLC haters to actually say WHY they hate the DLC other than parroting "they're the corporate-wing of the Democratic Party" without any further specific elaboration this claim might be more believable.


You don't seem to get the idea that Biden made commitments to Hill's legal team and also informed the public that the witnesses would be heard.
Biden broke that commitment . . . .

From what I can find, Angela Wright was subpoenaed by the Committee, and Biden wanted her to testify. For whatever reason she didn’t, I don’t think anyone definitively knows why she didn't. But, what I do know is that Biden sent a letter to Angela Wright saying that if she wanted to testify she could. But she didn’t. The only other witness “prevented” from testifying was Rose Jourdain, whose sole purpose was to corroborate Wright’s testimony. Without that testimony Jourdain’s testimony was pointless.

Here’s the letter:

Dear Miss Wright:
It is my preference that you testify before the Judiciary Committee in connection with the nomination of Judge Clarence Thomas. But, in light of the time constraints under which the Committee is operating, and the willingness of all the members of the Committee to have placed in the record of the hearing the transcripts of the interviews of you and your corroborating witness, Ms. Rose Jourdain conducted by the majority and minority staff, I am prepared to exceed to the mutual agreement of you and the members of the committee, both Republican and Democrat, that the subpoena be vitiated.
Thus, the transcribed interviews of you and Mrs. Rose Jourdain will be placed in the record without rebuttal at the hearing.
I wish to make clear, however, that if you want to testify at the hearing in person, I will honor that request.
Sincerely,
Joseph R. Biden, Jr.

[defendandprotect]

342. You have no opinion on the DLC . . . . ???

You have no opinion on corporate interets controlling the Democratic Party?

and you don't understand what the objections to it may be ????

Yet you suggest that anyone who is anti-DLC is on the "extreme left" . . . ???


Check the DLC website . . . and I'd suggest that you stay tuned because you don't seem

to be hearing much!


Perhaps you could try this . . . a corporate wing of the party suggests corporate interets

being fulfilled via the party . . . ? Notice any Money Men influencing the party?


Re the hearings ....

The nation was waiting to hear the Hill witnesses testify --

Jourdain was willing to come -- and Wright was there --- all waiting.

Jourdain would not only back up what Hill and Wright were saying she would have also

made clear that this was common with other female employees. Some of those employees

were also ready to testify. About a dozen in all. Jourdain was, if I recall correctly,

an EEOC speech writer.



I'm not clear what this letter is . . . .


Here’s the letter:

Dear Miss Wright:
It is my preference that you testify before the Judiciary Committee in connection with the nomination of Judge Clarence Thomas. But, in light of the time constraints under which the Committee is operating, and the willingness of all the members of the Committee to have placed in the record of the hearing the transcripts of the interviews of you and your corroborating witness, Ms. Rose Jourdain conducted by the majority and minority staff, I am prepared to exceed to the mutual agreement of you and the members of the committee, both Republican and Democrat, that the subpoena be vitiated.
Thus, the transcribed interviews of you and Mrs. Rose Jourdain will be placed in the record without rebuttal at the hearing.
I wish to make clear, however, that if you want to testify at the hearing in person, I will honor that request.
Sincerely,
Joseph R. Biden, Jr.



Miss Wright was there ready to testify as others were --- and Ms Jourdain was ready to come

from her hospital bed to testify. There were approximately a dozen of them ready to testify.

This was in the middle of the night --- as everyone had been waiting for hours --- that he

subpoena was pulled.

Again --- Biden had made an agreement with the Hill lawyers that their witnesses would be

heard and that agreement was broken. In the middle of the night that commitment was broken.



PS: . . . just for the record . . .

I would also make clear that Biden stalled the calling of these witnesses in prime time and

into the late hours of the night and then into the late hours of the morning as he put on

a young male whose main purpose was to try to suggest that Hill was pursuing him. It was

huge nonsense and after almost five hours, he admitted that ---

[defendandprotect]

343. "Strange Justice" by Jane Mayer who just wrote "On The Dark Side" . . .

is an excellent source for info on the Thomas hearings and what actually happened ---

the book is called "Strange Justice" and she co-wrote it ---

[George II]

345. Reasoned response....

You have no opinion on corporate interets controlling the Democratic Party?

I don’t know that “corporate interests” control the Democratic Party. Other than vague allusions to this, anything specific?

Check the DLC website . . . and I'd suggest that you stay tuned because you don't seem to be hearing much!

I have, and other than the fact that the five or so members mentioned on that website are also in Congress, what am I supposed to see? There are 50 Democratic Senators and about 230+ Democratic Congressmen – five of them being in this clandestine group hardly makes up a group that is “controlling”.

Perhaps you could try this . . . a corporate wing of the party suggests corporate interest being fulfilled via the party . . . ? Notice any Money Men influencing the party?

Well, neither the DNC nor the DLC call the DLC the “corporate wing of the party”, only some here on DU and fringe websites use that term.

Re the hearings ....

The nation was waiting to hear the Hill witnesses testify -- Jourdain was willing to come -- and Wright was there --- all waiting.

The nation has been waiting to hear bush resign, but that doesn’t mean it’s going to happen!

Jourdain would not only back up what Hill and Wright were saying she would have also made clear that this was common with other female employees. Some of those employees were also ready to testify. About a dozen in all. Jourdain was, if I recall correctly, an EEOC speech writer.

No, Jourdain was a corroborating witness for Wright, not Hill. If Wright would not testify then Jourdain’s value as a corroborating witness was pointless.

I'm not clear what this letter is . . . .


Here’s the letter:

Dear Miss Wright:
It is my preference that you testify before the Judiciary Committee in connection with the nomination of Judge Clarence Thomas. But, in light of the time constraints under which the Committee is operating, and the willingness of all the members of the Committee to have placed in the record of the hearing the transcripts of the interviews of you and your corroborating witness, Ms. Rose Jourdain conducted by the majority and minority staff, I am prepared to exceed to the mutual agreement of you and the members of the committee, both Republican and Democrat, that the subpoena be vitiated.
Thus, the transcribed interviews of you and Mrs. Rose Jourdain will be placed in the record without rebuttal at the hearing.
I wish to make clear, however, that if you want to testify at the hearing in person, I will honor that request.
Sincerely,
Joseph R. Biden, Jr.

It’s a letter that Biden sent to Wright before her scheduled (yes, SCHEDULED) testimony. It’s in the records, surprised you haven’t heard of it!

Miss Wright was there ready to testify as others were --- and Ms Jourdain was ready to come from her hospital bed to testify. There were approximately a dozen of them ready to testify. This was in the middle of the night --- as everyone had been waiting for hours --- that he subpoena was pulled.

The subpoena wasn’t “pulled”, Wright was offered an option of allowing her telephone interviews by the Democrats and the Republicans to be entered into evidence or testifying in person. The decision was to use the interviews. As you can see in Biden's letter, if Wright wanted to testify she could have.

Again --- Biden had made an agreement with the Hill lawyers that their witnesses would be heard and that agreement was broken. In the middle of the night that commitment was broken.

Biden may have made an agreement with Hill (no evidence of that, but whatever), but unless those (third party) witnesses testified the agreement was rendered useless.

PS: . . . just for the record . . .

I would also make clear that Biden stalled the calling of these witnesses in prime time and into the late hours of the night and then into the late hours of the morning as he put on a young male whose main purpose was to try to suggest that Hill was pursuing him. It was huge nonsense and after almost five hours, he admitted that ---

Another unsubstantiated, at this time, claim. I haven’t been able to find anything on this.

[noiretextatique]

346. the thomas hearing was a national disgrace

it was the last straw for me. i joined the green party after that.
biden was a joke, and he did not let the other woman accusing thomas testify...anglea wright. he also said hill's lie detector test was "irrelevant." i will vote for this ticket, but i also have reservations about obama's choice.

http://www.aliciapatterson.org/APF1602/Graves/Graves.html
WAS ANITA HILL'S LIE DETECTOR TEST RELEVANT?

BIDEN: Even though the rules of evidence do not pertain (in congressional hearings), they do give us great insight into the best way to shed light on the truth....Case in point: Lie detector tests. I fought for over 20 years (against) their admission (in court) because every civil libertarian, including every women's group, has argued against them because they're used against people wrongly. There is no conclusive evidence they are accurate.

OGLETREE: Rumors had been circulating rampantly that Anita Hill was unwilling to take one. And that would have been the story --unwillingness to take one....I think the point is that if Anita Hill had failed the lie detector test, I assure you those would have been the first words out of Sen. (Orrin) Hatch's or Sen. (Alan) Simpson's mouths. The reason it was so important is that they were calling her a liar. Now these things aren't used in court very widely, but they are important investigative tools. In fact, every major federal and law enforcement agency uses lie detector tests.

When we made the decision to take the lie detector test, we realized there was no fair process. That they were not going to ask Anita Hill probing questions about what happened. They were going to ask her whether she had had a traffic ticket, maybe who she slept with, who her roommates were. And on the other hand, Judge Thomas said, `I'm not going to talk about my private life at all'....

The real problem is that the rules of evidence were totally irrelevant. I mean you had Alan Simpson and others reading from newspaper clippings or letters from people who weren't under oath. Sen. Hatch apparently enjoyed reading from The Exorcist. Talk about rules of evidence. What is the relevance of that?

Anita Hill

Photo courtesy of AP Wide World Photos

WAS CLARENCE THOMAS' ALLEGED PORNOGRAPHIC MOVIE-VIEWING HABIT RELEVANT?

BIDEN: Women will come in and say, `Why didn't you let in (evidence of Thomas' alleged pornographic movie viewing habits)?' How about if there was evidence that SHE liked pornography? Would it have shed any light on whether or not she was telling the truth? (Such information about Thomas) would have been independent verification that Thomas watched pornography, not that he talked to her about it, any more than if he had said, `This woman is promiscuous,' and then I established that this woman had slept with four different men in one week. Would that have proven whether she was telling the truth or not? Just because she slept with four men, does that mean she can't be harassed? It would have been prejudicial if it were in a court room, and it would never have been allowed.

OGLETREE: Thomas' (alleged pornographic movie viewing habit) was certainly relevant because it ties directly into the allegations and his denials. He denies pretty emphatically ever having made the comments that Professor Hill says he made. And part of the proof of her allegations are some of the movies. Like the movie "Big Bad Mamma Jamma" that reportedly was on one of his lists and that described the woman with large breasts.

And it's not whether or not he has an interest in pornography. That's not the question. The question is whether or not he made these particular comments and what would be the corroborating circumstances to show that he made them....I don't think that is disqualifying in terms of his serving on the Supreme Court, but I think it is a question of whether he was honest about a whole host of questions.

WOULD ANGELA WRIGHT'S TESTIMONY HAVE CHANGED THE COURSE OF HISTORY?

Angela Wright is another woman who had worked for Thomas at the EEOC who had been subpoenaed by the Senate Judiciary Committee. She told committee staff who interviewed her that Thomas had pressured for her dates and made inappropriate comments about her appearance, once asking at an EEOC seminar, "What size are your breasts?" Although she was standing by in Washington, she was never called to testify at the hearings.

While Biden says he "insisted" that she testify, Wright and her attorney say that was never communicated to them. Instead, they recall that Biden's counsel Cynthia Hogan suggested that Wright ask the committee to withdraw her subpoena. She refused, saying if the committee wanted to withdraw it, that was their perogative, but she was willing to testify if the committee called her.

In a last-minute, late-night maneuver, Wright and her attorney say Biden offered the concept of a letter releasing her from the subpoena but putting her testimony and that of a corroborator in the official record. Wright acceded to the offer, explaining that her consistent position had been that she was not asking to testify, but she was willing to testify if the senators called her.

BIDEN: "I believe (her testimony) could have (changed the course of history). Now others believed that she would hurt Anita Hill.

OGLETREE: We were concerned about anything that would hurt Anita Hill. But Anita Hill was not going to be hurt by Angela Wright. Congress' job would have been more complicated --they would have to beat up on a second black woman in the course of 48 hours, and that is something they had to weigh.....

I thought her willingness to come forward was commendable, but their treatment of her was despicable and unforgivable. And I think that literally she would have changed the course of history....

BIDEN: I was told (Angela Wright) wanted the subpoena lifted and that people who were strong Anita Hill people wanted the subpoena lifted. They believed that Anita Hill's testimony was so strong standing on its own that no matter how good anyone else was, it would be diluted. It would take away from it.

OGLETREE: If Biden in implying that Hill's team opposed Angela Wright's testimony, that is absolutely, unequivocally, categorically, and positively false. And that is the greatest creative use of fact and fiction that I have heard from these hearings. There is no one associated with the Anita Hill team who will tell you or can tell you that we opposed Angela Wright's testimony....We desperately wanted Angela Wright to testify because she was the one additional witness who was both willing and able to come forward and state that on another occasion Justice Thomas had engaged in conduct that was tantamount to sexual harassment....

And we think that would have taken this thing over the top. It is absolutely absurd for Sen. Biden or anyone else to suggest that anyone associated with Anita Hill prevented Angela Wright from testifying. We wanted her to testify, and we wish she had testified. And we thought the whole deal that both sides of the Congress made to allow her testimony to be submitted in the middle of the night without examination is shameful and reflected poorly on the entire process.

(Her information) was not extraneous. This was solid, concrete testimony, corroborated by another person, that was highly relevant. It's hard for anyone to have suggested that it wasn't relevant.

Sen. Joe Biden (D-Del.)

Photo courtesy of AP Wide World Photos

WHY WASN'T A PANEL OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT EXPERTS CALLED?

BIDEN: I wanted a panel on sexual harassment to come and testify, so we could put in context what we were talking about. And it was decided by the Hill people that they didn't want that panel to come on. Again, there was a feeling --communicated to me secondhand -- that Anita Hill had won this thing. She had made her case. And I kept saying, `wrong, this ain't over.' I was very disappointed ....Whether or not it would have helped Anita Hill, it would have enlightened; it would have shed more light on the veracity of the comments that had been made by all parties in my view.

OGLETREE: "It's absurd to say that he supported that. He has just recreated history....Not only did we suggest (such expert testimony), but we had Louise Fitzgerald (University of Illinois professor and expert on sexual harassment) physically in Washington...prepared to testify. We told not just Sen. Biden's staff, but several staff members that weekend, that she was not only anxious and willing, but very capable of discussing these issues.

Expert testimony can only help explain why a woman would come forward a decade later to bring in allegations of sexual harassment. So with all due respect, Sen. Biden completely has it wrong. And I think this is as self-serving as the earlier representations about why they didn't take Professor Hill's early allegations very seriously and treat them in a more public manner than they did when they were first aware of her concerns....

Whether Biden made the decision in a vacuum or after consulting with the members of both parties or just the Democrats, there was a determination made that no expert would be called, and we were sorely disappointed.

WHY DIDN'T SEN. BIDEN DEFEND ANITA HILL MORE AGGRESSIVELY?

BIDEN: Do I have any regrets (about the hearings)? That I didn't attack the attackers more. Some of the articles that have been written say, `Why didn't I do what the Republicans did?' If I had done what the Republicans did, I would have made a lie of everything I think I stand for. I ran for the United States Senate in part because I truly believed the one hallmark of my 20-year career is that civil liberties mean a great deal to me.

Mark me down as not joining the school that the end justifies the means. What's wrong with America is that we have gotten to the point where our perception of what is right and wrong is judged on the result. I am not going to join the parade that violates the most fundamental sacred principle that I think should judge and govern those who govern.

OGLETREE: (Senator Biden) doesn't understand that by sitting back and taking no position that he has encouraged the victimization of Anita Hill. She has civil rights and civil liberties, too. She wasn't applying for a lifetime appointment on the Supreme Court. She was not coming forward with an agenda to change the landscape of America.

And so for him to say that he didn't help her because he didn't want to be like the other side, to me, is to acknowledge that he has neglected to do his duties. He was the chairman. He was supposed to ask tough questions. He was supposed to get to the bottom of issues....And the bottom line is that Anita Hill was pilloried from beginning to end without any protection from anybody in that process....

What the senator did regrettably was to bend over in the wrong direction, and I think he did a great disservice in the sense of civil rights by being so tolerant of the lack of responsiveness on the part of one party and being so intolerant of efforts on the other side to bring out issues that may have shed light on (Thomas' character).

WHY DIDN'T ANITA HILL TESTIFY A SECOND TIME?

BIDEN: I also wanted Anita Hill to come back and gave (her) that opportunity. But again, I'm not criticizing. I could just as well have been wrong.

OGLETREE: In fact, Anita Hill was not only prepared but willing and interested in testifying a second time and had a wonderful rebuttal statement -- just brilliant rebuttal statement that I hope she, at some point, will share with the public. But given the Alan Simpson claim that what he intended to do was start talking about pubic hairs or whether she had roommates with men or women and whether she was liberal or conservative or whether she had traffic tickets or was a good or bad teacher....These were things we felt went far beyond the pale and went not to character assessment but character assassination.

And it was my judgment, over the objection of some of the other lawyers, that Anita Hill was not going to be subjected to more abuse. She was not going to go through it unless we had the power to object to lines of questioning. And that was not the power given to us.

WHAT WAS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THOMAS PLAYING THE "RACE CARD"?

BIDEN: Thomas was the one in my view engaging in racism, and I not only mean racism in terms of playing the race card, but racism in trying to reinforce the stereotypical notion about black women. That was the sin I don't forgive the guy for and those who were making his case.

OGLETREE: I think Judge Thomas' use of the term `high tech lynching of an uppity black' was brilliant and decisive. It was very effective rhetoric, and it allowed him to, in a sense, distance himself from his handlers in the White House and to give his own personal sense, as a black man, that he felt abused. He also turned the race card in a way that completely emasculated people like Sen. (Ted) Kennedy and Sen. (Patrick) Leahy and others who felt very uncomfortable challenging a black man on questions of sexuality....

And in a sense, the fact that this group was all white and all male made it a very easy attack and made their defense impossible. But Biden shouldn't blame Thomas. He should blame himself for not having the courage to look beyond that attack and going forward and probing in these very relevant issues to find a resolution to one of the most perplexing issues to confront our country in the last century.

IS THOMAS ON THE COURT ONLY BECAUSE HE IS BLACK?

BIDEN: "I think that the only reason Clarence Thomas is on the Court is because he is black. I don't believe he could have won had he been white. And the reason is, I think it was a cynical ploy by President Bush."

OGLETREE: Biden's partly right. It was not a cynical ploy by Bush. It was a brilliant ploy by Bush, and I give him credit for it. It was perhaps the single most important decision that George Bush made as president. What he was able to do by nominating Clarence Thomas was to drive a wedge in the civil rights community that separated brother and sister, mother and father in ways that have never happened before.

Because what he said was, `Here is a black man. Now let me see you criticize him. Are you criticizing him because he is black? Are you criticizing him because he is conservative? Are you criticizing him because you don't think he is competent? Whatever reason you're criticizing him, it's no loss for the president, because I will have ample reason to say, `I'll never nominate (a black) again. I will never put anyone through what he went through.'

So it was a brilliant move on the part of the president. And what he did was show the very soft underbelly in the liberal community that could not tolerate a challenge that really tested the essence of racial politics....

I think that what Bush did was not cynical, but it was from my point of view, and other agree with this, a confirmation that Republicans strongly believe in affirmative action. Justice Thomas was the affirmative action candidate. He was not the best person for the job. He was not the best African American for the job. He was not a brilliant judge...

So I think that the real significance of all this is that the president was able to get what he wanted. He was able to drive a wedge in the civil rights community, and now those, particularly civil rights leaders who were reluctant to oppose Thomas, regret that they didn't because he's turned out to be far more conservative than they ever imagined.

@1994 Florence Graves.

Florence Graves, the founding editor of Common Cause Magazine, is a research fellow at Harvard University's Institute of Politics and one of the reporters who broke the Sen. Bob Packwood sexual misconduct story in The Washington Post.

[pattmarty]

234. Ok, you're wrong on just about all points politically speaking.....

1 Dems will do the same thing with whoever McCain picks. This is old news, been going on for years.
2 The plagiarism issue (as far as I know SINGULAR issue) so what? Rush preaches to the choir, very small negative if any at all.
3 Where have you been for the last 40 yrs? Neither party worries that much about this anymore.
4 Biden doesn't support it anymore. Again, they will attack him on this and it will be a somewhat larger issue than the plagiarism non-issue.
5 Well I don't want to make an excuse for his vote or support of credit card companies, but the guy is from Delaware, what else can I say? If anything the donations will be higher now with a known name like Biden.
6 Haven't we all. I have heard this BS on the MSM, but I can not think of anything that was bad at all he said.
7 OK. Well you are entitled to your opinion. Biden is slightly left of center and will help with the "working" people.
8 I think Biden will not run in the case of Obama winning 2 terms, my opinion.
9 Clark no, for a number of reasons I won't go into since I am getting of typing already. I like Clark but I just didn't think it would have been a good fit. Richardson yeah ok, Brown, too liberal and only a single term Senator so far (I really like brown). Kaine, basically unknown to the the nation. Sebelius, the Clinton people would really been pissed off over that one.


Politically it makes huge sense. Shit, if it were up to me, I would like to have seen Kucinich, but that would have been POLITICAL suicide.

[George II]

238. Now, let ME elaborate on your elaboration, please....

1) The Repugnants can run commercials showing Biden attacking Obama when both were candidates for the Democratic Nominee, and use anti-Obama quotes that Biden likely said;

They've already done that, about 8:30 AM today - it went over like a lead balloon! Let's see the Obama ads next weekend quoting Mitt Romney attacking McCain. It's all part of politics and campaigns.

2) Biden has past plagiarism issues (though I concede these were some time ago, still, Rush & Co. will bring them up)

McCain (Solzhenitsyn) and his wife (Betty Crocker) have done worse and much more recently. Biden's "plagiarism" has been debunked thousands of times over the last 20 years.

3) Biden does nothing to help win any toss-up state (Recall how LBJ secured the victory for JFK by putting Texas in the Dem column?)

Pennsylvania? Virginia? Maybe even New Jersey?

4) Biden voted for the Iraq war, and now how is Obama going to attack McCain for doing the same?

Biden, almost within weeks of the vote, explained WHY he voted for "Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq" (which, if anyone actually reads it, was NOT "for war") and under which conditions, which were not followed, we should go to war. He was NOT in favor of bush invading Iraq in 2003.

I hope during this campaign the issue of the resolution becomes a factor, and that people actually read it. Here's a link:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021002-2.htm

5) Biden pisses off the base by voting for the credit card companies, campaign donations will now not be as high as they could have been

A minor issue compared to his correct positions and votes on all the other issues.

6) Biden has said some strange things at points

Like "I'll check with my staff to see how many houses I own", or maybe singing "bomb bomb Iran", or "I don't know what kind of car I drive"? "We'll be greeted as liberators"? "Mission Accomplished"? Many more.....

7) Biden doesn't seem to me to be a messenger for *change*

Whoaaaa, you were going to "elaborate", not pontificate with things like "doesn't seem to me"!

8) Now let me state that I AM DEFINITELY NOT ageist, but understand that some in the country may well be. And will Biden himself without a doubt feel like running for president after 2 Obama terms at the age of 73?

So, he's not a good choice for VP NOW because he'll be 73 IF he decides to run for President in eight years? Hillary Clinton is only 4 years younger, Sebelius less than 5 years younger - what's the age cutoff for candidates for vice president in case they want to run for president 8 years later?

9) There were better candidates available. Clark especially, but also Richardson (who I don't think really attacked Obama much while a candidate), Senator Brown of Ohio, Sebelius, Kaine, etc.

Richardson would have ideologically been a great choice, but even in this day and age two minorities on the same ticket would fail. The others? Where did Senator Brown come from? Sebelius, Kaine, etc. were much less well known nationally and have much less experience in international affairs than Biden.

[wordpix]

272. you don't know all the ins and outs of the vetting process, tho, with skeletons in every closet

[cannabis_flower]

295. Don't forget..

Biden gave us the Drug Czar's office and the Rave Act. Oh and he's on the Narcotics Control Committee.

[liberalhistorian]

135. No, Evan Bayh or Tim Kaine or

Hillary Clinton would have been horrible choices. But this one is the right choice, and Obama's showing some depth and substance and intelligence in making it.

[WriteDown]

225. I agree...

Still will vote for him, but about the worst choice I can imagine. The repukes are already starting to roll out his various gaffes from over the years.

[wordpix]

270. I guess being head of the Judiciary and Foreign Relations Comms. means nothing anymore

Also, being in the Senate since age 30...

[Ghost Dog]

97. "Foreign Policy". Hmmm.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7578136.stm

[Herman74]

104. Repugnants are going to attack Biden for his past plagiarism issues...

...Biden better be ready.

[Name removed]

124. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[llmart]

168. Frankly......

who cares what the "Freeptards" say or do? They've shown themselves to be the knuckledraggers that they are. Do we want their opinion to matter? Because it doesn't. If we want to take our country back to the greatness it once had, we need to ignore people like the freepers.

[Baby Snooks]

139. And his comment about Obama..

McCain has already pointed out that Biden commented last year that Obama was not ready to be president. That of course will become a major story for a day or two. And then be forgotten. Maybe the solution is to change the rules. Thems that has the most votes is the presidential nominee. Thems that has the second most votes is the vice-presidential nominee. Reality is, even though personally I cannot stand her, only Clinton could guarantee massive voter turnout which is what it will take to beat McCain. And anyone who thinks otherwise needs to go back and look at the numbers. Should prove interesting to see what happens in Denver. A woman scorned and all. Not once but twice.

I would never have voted for her for president. But I would have supported her as the vice-presidential nominee. Only because it would result in massive voter turnout among Democrats. But by the same token I suspect McCain will become so scary by November that I would have voted for her.

[Herman74]

191. Good points. And Hillary might have guaranteed victory in Arkansas

...and it's looking at this point we'll be needing all the states we can get.

It is true, though, that the McCain campaign could have run that video where stupid Hillary actually compared McCain favorably to Obama regarding experience (stunning and appalling that she did that), and that would have been unpleasant. However, I'm sure that Biden has said some unflattering things about Obama.

Why, oh why, wasn't General Clark chosen? Or Kaine, who may have guaranteed victory in Virginia? Or Richardson? Or Sebelius?

[WileEcoyote]

151. That's like attacking a tank with straw.

Biden was the man who single handedly took Rudy Guiliani out of the game. He'll do the same with John McCain and any of the 527 smearsters that come along.

Biden's a classic tough guy only working for the good team this time. Sure we've got problems with his votes on credit card companies. I've always had a problem with his constant support for bad drug laws. "War On Drugs" B/S that is.

But he's the toughest candidate the Dems have had going for them in a long long time. You'll have Joe Biden to thank when on his and Obama's coatails Congress gets a rock solid Democratic majority after the fall elections.

And that will spell the permanent death of the GOP. The Republican party to fall by the wayside of the KKK, Neo nazis and other similar goofy idiots with failed ideology.

[customerserviceguy]

166. Biden took Giuliani out of the game?

You mean that Iowa caucus that Ghouliani never even showed up for, that Biden dropped out of the next day?

I have to say, I'm disappointed. A Presidential candidate should be thinking about the future, in other words, who can take over my legacy after my eight years are up? Do we really expect that Biden will run for his own two terms in 2016, at the age of 73?

And why not tap someone young and exciting to be the future of the Democratic Party, someone who will serve as a leader for years to come, not someone who generated zero enthusiasm in his last run for the Presidency?

This feels like Lloyd Bentsen all over again.

[LiberalFighter]

190. Yep... Biden is unlikely to be elected President 8 years later.

But there wasn't much of a pool to pick from for Obama.

[customerserviceguy]

208. Wow

That's the saddest thing I've heard anybody say about our Party.

I respectfully disagree.

[LiberalFighter]

262. Then you are not thinking about the implications in the future.

Elections are not all about just today.

[WileEcoyote]

341. Bentzen?

Not unless he gets cold feet and turns timid. Very unlikely for Biden. He will win votes the old fashioned way: By cutting the opponent to shreads.

We'll have Obama for eight years BUT only if we win it first. Joe Biden is the best choice to help the ticket. Not some younger person unfamiliar with the hardball game of presidential politics.

I'm always surprised at the naive thoughts running through the typical Democratic Party rank and file. You need a pitbull to take down a bull. Biden is that dog.

He's a "three for the price of one" VP candidate.

[bamacrat]

180. Then the Keating 5 thing should be brought up.

Also McCains plagiarism of Wikipedia.

[defendandprotect]

237. That issue is ONE that is gone . . ..turns out his comments were made before . . .

with appropriate credit given . . . many times . . . it was this particular time when
the quotes and attribution wasn't given . . .

that's over ---

unless it becomes the "Gore invented the internet" thingy --

[George II]

245. He's been ready since it happened - TWENTY YEARS ago!!

[wordpix]

275. then Dems should attack McMansions on his Keating 5 scandal voting with * 95% of the time

[LanternWaste]

336. Republicans would attack any Democratic candidat

Republicans would attack any Democratic candidate for both Pres and VP for anything. Everyone's already ready. There's nothing fundamentally different about this tact.

Anyways, they themselves should be prepared to answer to charges of plagiarism themselves should they feel so inclined to bring it up.

[Ghost Dog]

132. Wanted to extend NATO into E. Europe;

Get tough with N. Korea, Iran, Sudan, Burma, China, Cuba, ... Pakistan, ...;

Develop relationships in Africa, ...

Joe Biden on Foreign Policy

Doctrine of crisis prevention, not preemption

Q: When future historians write of your administration's foreign policy, what will be noted as your doctrine?

A: Clarity. Prevention, not preemption. An absolute repudiation of this president's doctrine, which has only three legs in the stool: 1) don't talk to anybody; 2) preemption; & 3) regime change. I would reject all three. We need a doctrine of prevention. The role of a great power is to prevent crises. And we don't have to imagine any of the crises. You have Pakistan, Russia, China, Darfur.
Source: 2007 Des Moines Register Democratic debate Dec 13, 2007

/... http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Joe_Biden_Foreign_Policy.htm

[sellitman]

117. That is one balanced ticket!

Vice President Joe Biden shuts the door on the inexperienced tag.

I wonder what the knuckle draggers will come up with next?

Good choice Barack! Your calm steady hand is becoming more and more apparent.

[L. Coyote]

177. Former Chair of Senate Judiciary, right? That's the signal I wanted to see.

This is like having Leahy on the ticket, in many ways.
The Corrupt Bastards better start packing for another planet!

[The Family Guy]

201. Balanced??

Yeah, like a busload of toddlers balanced on a cliff.....

This decision was a stinker.

[sellitman]

292. Care to explain?

Obama has the ideas and the charisma and Biden has the experience and the Gravitas.

What's not balanced about that?

[ChiciB1]

267. Well That's Two Guys With Some "Pearly Whites!" n/t

[George II]

252. So Biden's flying in a chartered jet to Springfield to congratulate Clinton???? HAHAHA

[curious one]

18. Blame secret service to blow it not the campaign.

[L. Coyote]

21. Indeed. Valerie Plame said the Bush Admin can't keep a secret!!

[PFunk]

128. Big agreement here. Though you have to put some of it on the Obama camp,

They should have sent out the text the minute BEFORE the first secret service agent appeared on Biden's doorstep. The MSM may be (mostly) stupid but even a idiot could put 2-and-2 together once the first dark suited guy with shades showed.

[goforit]

307. Yes, the ss IS an entity of the illuminaty.....Obama has to be fast on his feet.

[amyrose2712]

118. i got my text

at like 2AM EST

[Delphinus]

176. Still waiting for mine.

It was, however, in my inbox.

[liberalhistorian]

133. This one sure wasn't. I still haven't gotten

anything on my email or cell phone yet and it's already been announced in the media. So much for signing up to be the "first to know."

[George II]

222. Figures that here, on DU, the first response to the news has a negative, anti-candidate spin to it!

[Miss Chybil]

228. Of course. nt

[humbled_opinion]

287. I am not Optimistic About

A VP announcement surge in the polls... I could be wrong just color me flustered at this point. Hillary was the logical choice and would have brought a huge bounce just in time for the convention which Obama could have rode into NOV now.... I wonder...

[Cherchez la Femme]

305. Worrisome his campaign is leaking

could spell big trouble in the future :(

[NOW tense]

3. Who Are You

I wish it was kept a secret and Biden came out to Who Are You by the Who. It would have made it fun and completely over the top.

[kestrel91316]

4. RUMOR. Obama has NOT announced his pick.

Not even rumor. GOSSIP.

[Alexander]

5. Seconded. Why are DUers so gullible tonight?

I thought people knew here how untrustworthy the MSM are.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[curious one]

19. Check Obama's site. It's there.

[Alexander]

73. I checked. It's really too bad. I thought he'd pick someone better.

Oh well. They still get my vote because the alternative is a guaranteed World War III.

[Wabbajack_]

85. They were right, what say you?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

93. wow- reading this the next day - bet you'd like to take this back

[Laura PourMeADrink]

94. ha

[Hekate]

7. This thread got infested fast. Too bad. Biden's a good pick. ...

Anyhow I've Alerted on the Troll's *. Pizza delivery should be soon.

Hekate

[Name removed]

8. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. 
[link:www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html|Click
here] to review the message board rules.

[orleans]

13. not soon enough. this fuck is still floating around.n/t

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. 
[link:www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html|Click
here] to review the message board rules.

[melody]

15. It's midnight at the OK Corral :)

Tombstone ahead.

[Le Taz Hot]

152. Infested?

Not everyone is marching lock-step and offers a differing opinion and we're "infested?" Let me see, what group is it that doesn't allow varying opinions . . .it's getting really difficult to tell the difference anymore.

[Chovexani]

204. Oh honey.

A "troll" on DU is now defined as someone who does not drink koolaid of any flavor.

Since about, oh, '06. (The primaries only made it worse.)

[Hekate]

290. You weren't here to read the Troll's "Fuck the nigger" post, were you? I was.

Frankly, it upset the hell out of me. That's why I not only Alerted but said that I did.

Hekate

[Hekate]

304. See my post 290 reply to Chovexani

"290. You weren't here to read the Troll's "Fuck the nigger" post, were you? I was."

[L. Coyote]

179. That was a very entertaining troll.

Who knew you could say so much using such short words? :rofl:

Also, it was hilarious how this troll admitted he came from
the freeper board, and would be back after getting tombstoned.

I hope someone saved the thread before "name removed" was flushed back to the septic tank.

[bluestateguy]

9. Not until I get a text message of Obama personally announces it

until then, I don't buy it.

[Alexander]

10. Thank you. I hope and expect your avatar is the choice.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. 
[link:www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html|Click
here] to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[VolcanoJen]

16. This thread is hilarious

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Welcome, MouthBreathers, FlatEarthers and KnuckleDraggers! Oh, and BushVoters!

[Name removed]

17. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. 
[link:www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html|Click
here] to review the message board rules.

[judasdisney]

22. But is Joe "clean and articulate"? Countdown to foot-in-mouth Biden gaffe #1, 2, 3, 4...

[L. Coyote]

24. Countdown to Biden 2016!!

After 8 years of Obama!

[Alexander]

74. Oh dear Lord no. There's a reason he failed in his two presidential bids...

[CarbonDate]

81. When he's 73?

Um, I guess....

[Hekate]

26. I'd have to say that Joe is what you'd call really, really articulate.LOL. And clean-living, too....

Apparently too busy serving the public to ever get rich, the way most of senators manage to do.

As for that comment of his, he meant no offense to anyone, and clearly Barack Obama took none. Other people can be divisive with it if they choose -- I'm certain the MSM and the RW will do their best.

Hekate

[wordpix]

276. I think by "clean" he meant Obama has no sex or money scandals so give Biden a break

Geesh! :mad:

[MilesColtrane]

23. .

self delete

[Grinchie]

25. OMG! The DLC still has it meathooks in the Jugular of the Democratic party

I really had hoped that Obama was different, but now we see that the DLC is as strong as ever.

Don't get me wrong, I think Joe Biden was the most acceptible of the DLC, but the fact that the DLC lives in this ticket is enough to make me wretch.

Telecom Immunity, No support for Impeachemnet, and a lurch to the center that makes me sea sick.

Sorry Obama, but my support is going to take a wait and see approach while you pander to the "Progressives".

Why can't any contemporary politician stick to the basics without veering off course upon recomendations by the "Experts".

The Democrats are cursed.

[defendandprotect]

239. Biden isn't on track either with universal health care -- neither one of them . . .

are on record for SINGLE PAYER . . .

so money men got what they wanted --- !!!

[symptom]

240. Worse, grey-haired gravitas wasn't nearly enough to pull Dukakis over

the top when he chose the venerable Lloyd Bentsen. And that Bentsen was paired against Dan Quayle, for crying out loud. You can be certain McCain won't pick some deer-in-the headlights lightweight like Quayle. So....don't hold your breath that this pick will by itself push Obama over the top.

[LaurenG]

27. It was sent out at 11:21 PM (at least mine was)

Dear XXXX 8/22/08 11:21 PM

I have some important news that I want to make official.

I've chosen Joe Biden to be my running mate.

Joe and I will appear for the first time as running mates this afternoon in Springfield, Illinois -- the same place this campaign began more than 19 months ago.

I'm excited about hitting the campaign trail with Joe, but the two of us can't do this alone. We need your help to keep building this movement for change.

Please let Joe know that you're glad he's part of our team. Share your personal welcome note and we'll make sure he gets itI have some important news that I want to make official.

I've chosen Joe Biden to be my running mate.

Joe and I will appear for the first time as running mates this afternoon in Springfield, Illinois -- the same place this campaign began more than 19 months ago.

I'm excited about hitting the campaign trail with Joe, but the two of us can't do this alone. We need your help to keep building this movement for change.

Please let Joe know that you're glad he's part of our team. Share your personal welcome note and we'll make sure he gets it:

http://.....com/welcomejoe

Thanks for your support,

Barack


P.S. -- Make sure to turn on your TV at 2:00 p.m. Central Time to join us or watch online at http://www.BarackObama.com.
:


Thanks for your support,

Barack


P.S. -- Make sure to turn on your TV at 2:00 p.m. Central Time to join us or watch online at http://www.BarackObama.com.

[drm604]

137. Mine came at 3:14 am eastern time

From your name I assume that you're also eastern time. I slept through it. I wonder why it was sent to some of us so early in the morning?

Mine was different, and shorter than yours.

Barack has chosen Senator Joe Biden to be our VP nominee. Watch the first Obama-Biden rally live at 3pm ET on www.BarackObama.com Spread the word!

[LaurenG]

142. Yes I'm eastern, but why did they send out such different messages?

Weird. Did you sign up for a home page there? Maybe that's the difference. Well, at least we got them!

[drm604]

144. Yes I signed up for a home page but I don't think that has anything to do with text messaging.

The text messaging signup is completely separate from signing up on the web.

[LaurenG]

147. Yes, it is separate but I was wondering if those who signed up got

different messages, I guess not then. I did enter the contest to win a trip to Denver though and I wrote a long letter about why they should pick me (they didn't :) )


edit: spelling

[drm604]

150. Maybe we're confusing two different things.

I'm talking about a text message I received on my cellphone. Are you talking about that or are you talking about an email?

[LaurenG]

154. I was talking about email, I didn't sign up for text.

Whoops, 2 different things. :hi:

[drm604]

164. That explains it then.

My mistake. :+

I wonder why they sent it at 3 in the morning. I slept through it, but it must have woke up a lot of people.

[LaurenG]

171. I think it was the 3:00 am call thing remember.

:7

[drm604]

173. Remember what?

:shrug:

[LaurenG]

178. The 3 am commercial

who will you trust to answer the 3 am phone call.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BvyF351RS8&feature=related

edited for a better commercial

[drm604]

182. Yes, but I doubt that was it.

I'm thinking that it was some kind of technical glitch. Maybe so many texts going out at the same time overwhelmed the telcos' computers and they got queued up and ended up being sent out over time.

[LaurenG]

186. Probably it was overwhelmed but sweet that it was 3 am. : ) nt

[drm604]

192. My concern is that some people may have been irritated by an early morning call.

I doubt that it will hurt him but if it was intentional then it strikes me as being a bad idea.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Towlie]

29. And I was the FIRST to know at 4:55 AM EDT Saturday, when my phone woke me up!

Or at least that's what Obama's website promised me. You people aren't fooling anybody by hacking into the DU forum computer and faking your message time stamps.

[Rhiannon12866]

30. Well, I heard this as breaking news on MSNBC, by David Schuster, no less...

And am both elated and relieved at the news. Think this was a brilliant choice by Obama, probably the first of many in his new role.:applause:

For one thing, it will shut down and shut up those "lack of experience" folks who were using this as an excuse to consider McCain. He couldn't have done better in the "experience" category and Biden, with a son headed for Iraq, will certainly have even one more excuse to shut down this unnecessary and tragic war which has been tearing this country apart for far too long. Brilliant choice, IMO...:woohoo:

[tpsbmam]

31. Obama Chooses Biden as Running Mate (official -- text received)

Source: NY Times

Senator Barack Obama has chosen Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware to be his running mate, turning to a leading authority on foreign policy and a longtime Washington hand to fill out the Democratic ticket, Mr. Obama announced in text and e-mail messages early Saturday.

Mr. Obama’s selection ended a two-month search that was conducted almost entirely in secret. It reflected a critical strategic choice by Mr. Obama: To go with a running mate who could reassure voters about gaps in his resume, rather than to pick someone who could deliver a state or reinforce Mr. Obama’s message of change.

Mr. Biden is the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and is familiar with foreign leaders and diplomats around the world. Although he initially voted to authorize the war in Iraq — Mr. Obama opposed it from the start — Mr. Biden became a persistent critic of President George W. Bush’s policies in Iraq.

The brief text message from the Obama campaign came at 3:00 a.m., less than three hours after word of the decision began leaking out. “Barack has chosen Senator Joe Biden to be our VP nominee. Watch the first Obama-Biden rally live at 3pm ET on www.BarackObama.com. Spread the word!”

His e-mail announcement began: “Friend -- I have some important news that I want to make official. I’ve chosen Joe Biden to be my running mate.”

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/24/us/politics/24biden.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

---

Mods, I hope you'll let this stand. It's now official -- previous posts are filled with *it's not official* kinds of responses. It's now official and it'd be great to have some reactions to the choice.

[gateley]

32. There have been official threads up for some time --

and it's been on Obama's website for a few hours, so don't worry about the mods.

Thanks for the NYT article!

[tpsbmam]

36. Sorry.....

All I saw on LBN were AP articles that came out before the announcement and those were filled with "this is speculation" kinds of replies. Guess the ones that were posted after it was official were outposted by the ones where "speculation" was of more interest. :P

[gateley]

43. They weren't on LBN --

you're more conscientious than the others! :7 Just links and stuff in GD-P.

[Rhiannon12866]

301. IMO, you made the right decision in posting this...

It's the job of LBN mods to combine duplicate threads (I've been one), and they're just doing their job, but, IMHO, yours was the definitive thread. But DU can get messy (no joke, LOL), and when it became official, everybody was jumping on the bandwagon all over the place, as we do here. Thanks for posting this important article...:hi:

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[supernova]

35. So, are you gonna vote for limp dick McLame

or stay home, because then you'd be doing everybody a favor.

[tpsbmam]

38. I'll be sure to thank you when.....

our civil rights are further eroded, a woman's right to choose is extinguished, another war is needlessly started, and we sink further into a miasma of debt. A write-in is a vote for McAddled, so you may as well bite the bullet and just vote for him.

Look, I don't think MOST of the Democrats in Washington these days are what they should be. Too often I see too little difference between the two parties and the way they vote on important issues. I'm with you, I was FURIOUS with Biden over the bankruptcy bill and was furious with Obama over FISA. But there are important differences between Obama/Biden & McAddled. And if McAddled wins, I WILL be cursing the people I know who vote for McAddled, Nader or otherwise. I thought people learned from Shrub how low our country has the potential to sink -- I guess not.

[SharonRB]

41. That's it -- bite off your nose to spite your face

Sounds like a lousy plan to me and like you're falling for the right wing talking points. Do us all a favor and stay home.

[L. Coyote]

34. The donations are pouring in already!

https://donate.barackobama.com/page/contribute/splashone

[Rene]

37. now that the internet creators of the obama product have all those email addresses

how soon do you think they'll be sending campaign donation solicitation messages? All hose addresses will go into Democratic party lists......I wonder if they'll be available to marketers? If they're part of a political campaign are they public property now?

[tpsbmam]

39. Campaigns are all about the lists these days.....

Most of the people who signed up to get the alert had already given their information to the campaign. Yeah, they'll be hoarded and probably sold, but if you've contributed to the campaign or even just signed up on the website, that's already happened.

[rucognizant]

126. Yes I still get requests from 2004!

I was a Dean delegate and ALL of the Dems have been soliciting me like crazy for months!

LISTEN UP! I am 6 degrees of separation from Joe Biden. My Uncle was a NJ State Senator, who held the insurance on the Delaware Memorial Bridge! After being badly swiftboated by the opposition party, he chose not to run again for office, but was active behind the scenes.One of our friends and neighbors was Sen. Joe Hancock. He, my Uncle, had an above average moral ethical code instilled by my Great Grandfather, a native American/civil war hero! I have a photo of him with Ted Kennedy's arm around him, Lautenberg and Gov. Hughs at the 64 Dem convention in Atlantic City!
35 years older than Biden, he supported his political run, as well as Lautenberg's first campaign. ( I remember the two if them waltzing in our back door while door to door campaigning!)
He wouldn't have done that if they hadn't been worthy..you can take that to the bank!
I am disturbed by the dismal tone of this thread........I hope it is all Repig trolls NOT Dems!

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SharonRB]

42. If McCain wins I hope you and everyone else who won't vote

for our ticket is happy. It will mean right-wing SCOTUS choices, more wars, more tax cuts for the rich and no help for the middle class, no improvement in our education system, a continued ban on stem cell research, no health care for all, etc.

I hope you'll rethink your position. It will lead to nothing good.

[depakid]

50. How about let's turn that around

How will things be different under Obama and Biden?

[NBachers]

44. I'll support this ticket

and I think as time goes on, this ticket will get better and better.

Now, off to Obama's official website to donate . . . then back to bed here on the West Coast.

[NBachers]

45. I'll support this ticket

and I think as time goes on, this ticket will get better and better.

Now, off to Obama's official website to donate . . . then back to bed here on the West Coast.

edited to add: Donation Accepted!

Back to bed.

Oops- I must've hit the "Reply" button instead of the "Edit" button in my half-awake fog.

[whirlygigspin]

47. nice

have a nice day

[benh57]

46. odd

I signed up for the email alert and have not received it.

[Rhiannon12866]

49. I haven't, either, but it's still early, even on the East Coast.

But it's official, which is all that counts for me. They're probably getting some well-deserved rest, after all the excitement, which I should probably be getting, too...:boring:

[Rhiannon12866]

48. Think this was a brilliant choice by Obama, probably the first of many in his new role...

For one thing, it will shut down and shut up the "lack of experience" folks who were using this as an excuse to consider McCain. I am both elated and relieved. This is a ticket that I can support with enthusiasm...:applause:

[ailsagirl]

214. AMEN!!! Brilliant choice n/t

[Union Thug]

51. CNN Confirms it's Biden...

Source: CNN

Just on... Am I a johnny come lately?

No link yet.

[Pushed To The Left]

52. I never got the text message...hmmmm

[madeline_con]

53. CNN Confirms From Dem Sources....

doesn't that mean they're still speculating? :shrug:

[valerief]

54. I seem to remember a night in 2000...

[Runcible Spoon]

55. fuck I'm drunk.

maybe I will wake up tomorrow and the Biden part will be gone.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

56. Breaking headline on CNN's Web Site:

"CNN confirms Sen. Barack Obama has chosen Delaware Sen. Joe Biden to be his vice-presidential running mate."

...and on Fark Snooze:

Breaking News >> FOX News Channel Confirms Delaware Senator Joe Biden is Barack Obama’s VP Choice

[Hawkeye-X]

57. CNN confirms that...

THEY DONT KNOW THE FUCKING ANSWER - OBAMA HAS NOT SENT US A TEXT MESSAGE!

[DFW]

58. Hell if I know. I got blasted for this one earlier:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6699328

At least you got a source or a link or something. All I had was some inside info, which
I didn't know (at the time) if it was accurate or not.

[ailsagirl]

59. Here's a link...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-joe-biden-vice-president-barack-obama,0,4044104.story

[Amerigo Vespucci]

60. AP: Obama chooses Biden as running mate

AP: Obama chooses Biden as running mate

Foreign Relations Committee chairman has globe-trotting credentials

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26010055/



MSNBC staff and news service reports
updated 3 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - The Associated Press has learned that Delaware Senator Joe Biden is Barack Obama's choice to be his vice presidential running mate.

Biden, who has served in the Senate since being elected at the age of 29, is the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee and will add his foreign policy expertise to the Democratic ticket.

In recent years, he has traveled to Afghanistan and Pakistan two times and to Iraq eight times. He returned Monday from a fact-finding trip to Georgia.

[L. Coyote]

68. It is official:

https://donate.barackobama.com/page/contribute/splashone

[jmowreader]

82. Since being ELECTED at 29?

This is a man who REALLY knows how to follow the letter of the law...his birthday is November 20. The Constitution says you have to be 30 to be a senator, but it does NOT say you have to be 30 to run for the Senate. So...he won election when he was 29 and turned 30 before his first Congress convened.

If you've got to pick a senator, Joe Biden's not a bad choice. Obama, like the last president and Shrub, has to bring foreign policy expertise in from the other half of his ticket. MAYBE a former Secretary of State would have been better than the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in this regard, but that would have injected problems of its own--the only ones of those that are still alive are either Clinton Administration veterans (which opens the door for lots of blowjob-themed attack ads) or Republicans.

I wanted a governor--hell, I REALLY wanted the governor of Montana--but I'm pleased with Senator Biden. Gobama!

[jae1227]

61. I'M MAD

If Biden is the VP then i would have wanted Obama to send me a text earlier today before the crazed media got hold of this information. I can see it now, me holding up a newspaper tomorrow morning saying "BIDEN FOR VP!" while I get my text message at 10am saying the same thing. This would make me mad at Obama b/e it makes this text out the VP seen like a scam just to get my number.

On the flip side if I get a text tomorrow morning saying Dodd, Reed, Kaine, etc. then I would be mad at the media (not the first time) for trying to F*ck this thing up for Obama.

[L. Coyote]

69. Even Valerie Plame says Bush cannot keep a secret! Secret Service was called!

[tavalon]

328. You've got to be kidding

How long have you had that fancy, dancy cell phone of yours. I've found that getting text messages and even voice messages is a little spotty with cell phones. No, not a little spotty, come to think of it, very, very spotty.

Blame the shitty cell coverage companies, not the campaign.

[NOW tense]

62. I wish it was kept a secret until tomorrow

I wish it was kept a secret and Biden came out to Who Are You by the Who. It would have made it fun and completely over the top.

[Flaxbee]

63. lol!

yes, that would have been fun :D

[janx]

77. OMG!!!!

:rofl:

[PoliticalOne65]

64. Where does Hillary stand on all this?

Does this mean that she will have to push the floor vote harder? Are her supporters going to take a Washington insider over Hillary as VP. Is she going to ask the question 'What is all this change talk?' 'He just picked a running mate that has been in Washington for over 30 years.' This is her chance to make a move, and call in the Florida and Michigan delegates now. The numbers are not on her side, but the disruption will be. Campaign 2012 is just around the corner.

[PittPoliSci]

65. Well, if she had any tact or class...

She certainly wouldn't do that. C'mon, you're trying to tell me an ex-first lady and Senator is any less of a Washington insider than Biden?

[PoliticalOne65]

67. no

No, but the question that will be asked is if Biden is the type of change that Obama has been talking about? The VP pick really is his first truly presidential move. Now in that first move he choose an old Washington insider. If the people were going to vote for this type of maneuver they would have voted for Hillary instead in the first place.

[bettyellen]

75. funny you're the one making shitty anti-Obama statements and anti-Hillary BS

political one indeed.

[Henny Penny]

95. You're very brave to be asking questions round here...

Biden is a terrible choice that will do nothing to heal the rift in the party.

[bettyellen]

127. u think you're responding to someone who's against rifts in the Dem party?

funny, i got the opposite impression...

[liberalhistorian]

141. And Hillary is NOT a Washington insider?

ROFL, come on, give me a fucking break. She's as insider as they come, if not more.

[northernlights]

169. are you really that stupid?

Hillary has already made her statement and she fully supports the ticket. Sorry, nothing for you rethuglicans to sink your teeth into there! :rofl:

[trashcanistanista]

66. Biden all over CNN now. It's 11:35 PST.

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

111. nope, just joining in the fun

Actually, Biden was my top choice originally, and this is a close second as choices go. Biden is a great choice.

[BumRushDaShow]

71. Ugh

:puke:

The campaign will end up wasting time constantly doing damage control over that man's loose mouth unless they muzzle him (and the wingnuts will certainly bait him into making some ridiculous off-the-cuff remark about Obama). Ironically, no one on the left seems to want to bait McSame enough to trigger his violent temper. :eyes:

[Rhiannon12866]

80. On the other hand, Biden has exactly what the RW has criticized about Obama,

lack of experience as a freshman senator. This pick should shut up and shut down those who are considering McSame because he has more "experience." I think it's a brilliant pick because Biden has the foreign policy experience and the tenure that Obama's critics say he lacks. I think it's a good match.:-)

And Obama's measured and articulate speaking talents will temper Biden's outspokenness, while Biden's "telling it like it is" style may loosen Obama up a bit. I'm hopeful, but then I always am. Just look at my avatar. My first choice candidate (since 2003) was the same as yours...:hi:

[BumRushDaShow]

98. Very true... and his record has been gone over ad infinitum over the years

so there's not much more there for the wingnuts to really add about it and Biden doesn't seem to care what they say anyway.

Being here in Philly, folks here have had an intimate experience with the Biden-effect over the past 35+ years (since Delaware doesn't have any major network TV stations, Philly covers Delaware's news). All the stations here were staked out at his house yesterday and overnight. :crazy:

Reading the M$M commentary so far this morning, they seem pretty smug about having "correctly predicted" the choice and so far seem satisfied with it. How long that press honeymoon will last is anyone's guess... But if this pick can secure more votes in some of the swing states east of the Mississippi (like an Ohio, Michigan, Rhode Island, and New Jersey, with solidification of a win here in PA since he is a native son), then it was a risky but bold chess move that I hope will hit paydirt.

It would be nice to see Kucinich in an administration somewhere... Been trying to come up with a good spot, although I expect he'd prefer to be on the outside as the conscience of the people! :hi:

[Rhiannon12866]

293. Excellent point, since there are going to be no surprises with Biden,

(as there have been with John Edwards, which broke my heart, since I agreed with Bill Maher when he originally said that Edwards was our most "electable" candidate. I also thought of Edwards as our "perfect candidate," have admired the guy tremendously for all the wonderful work he has done since he ran with Kerry in 2004... *sigh*).

Biden's record is right out there and it's a solid one... And you're also right that he doesn't much care what anyone says; he's been there and done that...;)

And I was feeling pretty smug, too, LOL, since my hair guy, who is also a long-time friend and knows I follow these things, asked me just yesterday whom Obama would choose. He asked me if Obama would choose Hillary and I told him, with confidence, that it would be Biden...:D

He's a great choice on a lot of levels, since he can help Obama in states like Pennsylvania, of course, as you said, and also Ohio, both states where we desperately need a win...:-)

As for Dennis, I've obviously given that a lot of thought over the years, and have come to the conclusion that he's exactly right where we need him, as an outspoken and proactive member of the House. We need more representatives with the courage and tenacity of Dennis, and John Conyers, too. I only wish we could clone him... *sigh*

Rhiannon:hi:

[BREMPRO]

136. I totally agree.

On paper the balance looks good, giving Obama an experienced foreign policy advisor, and a regular guy advocate that should appeal to the blue collar vote. Remains to be seen how it plays out.

[Rhiannon12866]

297. I imagine that Obama gave this a lot of thought, and think you're spot on.

Biden balances the ticket nicely, will appeal to those who still aren't sure that Obama truly represents them. He has the foreign policy experience, which is the main criticism of Obama, and also appeals to the blue collar voters, since they can identify with Biden, which, according to the MSM, is Obama's weakest contingency...:shrug:

There are always surprises, of course, and I'm sure that the MSM will try to come up with a few regarding Biden. *sigh* But with Biden's long and well-publicized record, and an admirable one, they're going to have their work cut out for them to come up with much...:D

[trthnd4jstc]

134. I will do some research in the next month, exactly to figure out how to bait McSame.

Why not Bait McSame? I also have a bit of a loose mouth, and a bit of a temper, and because of it I can forgive good hearted, and well intended people, like Sen. Biden for his Faux Paus. I will research how to get Sen. McSame to blow up, and post on DU my essay.

[northernlights]

181. you misunderstand his shooting from the hip

style of speaking. You can "bait" somebody with a bad temper, like McNuke, because his rage is so totally suppressed and simmering. Nothing planned will trigger McNuke because his handlers have him well prepared for any attack anybody could plan.

Biden says what he thinks, gets it out, and moves on. Hard to hit a moving target.

Plus his quick retorts are much more likely to bait McNuke into going nuclear, precisely because they are so totally off the wall, unexpected, unplanned, and therefore can't be prepared for.

[BumRushDaShow]

227. This is true...

I have been thinking about this all morning (pros and cons) and am now convinced that this selection is a chess move. A risky, bold chess move. The man will actually be a lightning rod that will absorb and/or deflect the crap that will be hurled at the team from multiple directions. Biden's massive ego will actually force him to fight for his life to win, which is the ultimate goal in any case (dragging Obama along for the ride). This is the epitome of the use of dirty politics and it is truly (albeit gut-wrenchingly) remarkable to see.

I do agree with an earlier post about how he torpedoed Ghouliani with one, now infamous quip, and hopefully he'll come up with one for McLame. :rofl:

[barbtries]

76. good choice!

wow

[Politicub]

78. Great choice! Gobama!!

:)

[zanne]

79. Excellent! I was hoping for this!

Great VP pick. Plenty of experience and white hair and he knows how to fight back! Me happy!

[graywarrior]

84. Excellent.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

86. ......i feel the earth about to move

:popcorn:



:beer:




:patriot:

:smoke: ...



:toast:

[mwb970]

87. I'd like to hear from those who were *sure* it would be Hillary.

I'm talking about those like David Zephyr, who urged everyone to bookmark his "Hillary for sure" thread so that we could see how prescient he was. I said it wouldn't be Hillary, he said to bookmark the thread. It's still bookmarked. Now what?

[Zhade]

88. Knew it wasn't clinton.

Not a fan of Biden, so he better watch out! But, at least this is done.

[Fluffdaddy]

89. I'm disappointed

[michaz]

90. Biden is a great choice! Once again it proves that the media and

"someone" couldn't keep their mouths shut! Choosing Biden does not show that Obama is weak in "certain" areas, to me it shows that Biden compliments Obama in "certain" areas. Why would one not surround themselves with people who have expertise in many areas? Biden has the talents that will make this the "great" ticket I expected it to be. Go Obama-Biden!

[Fluffdaddy]

91. It's not a great choice. It's a safe choice. Disappointing

[cobalt1999]

99. I expected the Democratic party to play it safe.

I half hoped I'd be wrong and they'd surprise me. *sigh*

It's disappointing because it was the safe choice, not the inspired choice.

[wordpix]

278. I think it's a smart choice, given Obama has virtually no foreign relations experience while Biden

has many years.

[aasleka]

92. Regardless of WHO I would have picked, it is clear Obama has shown good judgement

It isn't like he rushed this decision so I have to believe his good judgement was utilized here.

[Henny Penny]

96. Humour??? n/t

[AlbertCat]

140. OBAMA CHOOSES JESUS CHRIST AS RUNNING MATE

Uh...I dunno....I'm so disappointed! I mean 1st they didn't wake me a 2:00 AM to tell me and...well, the guy's hair is too long. And he's a Jew! And then there's the lisp....

[Dead Elephant]

100. A Noun, a Verb and 911

Biden had the greatest line through out all the Primary debates.
He also actually had a plan for getting us out of Iraq.
Can't wait to see the Republican attacks ads.
Now lets see who McCain picks. Droopy dog or the ken doll.
Who knows maybe Biden will be able to use that great line again against the comb-over at the VP debate.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330264410642&_trksid=p3907.m32&_trkparms=tab%3DSelling

[BumRushDaShow]

103. "Who knows maybe Biden will be able to use that great line again

against the comb-over at the VP debate."

:rofl: That in itself helped to sink Ghouliani (in addition to his 1-state strategy).

Many are trying to get someone to say "A noun, a verb, and POW".... My suggestion would add: "A noun, a verb, and 'my friend'". :rofl:

[Olney Blue]

101. I'm a Democrat who approves this message!

:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:

[Herman74]

102. Why Did Biden tell reporters earlier, "I'm not the guy." when he was (or didn't know)??

Obama in my opinion is being overconfident. The polls show a tightening of the race, and I remember how things went sour in 1988 and even in 2004 (in early August 2004, Kerry was doing quite well). I would have gone with Kaine, in order to try to nail down Virginia's electoral votes (13). Of course, my top choice was really General Clark, but the Obama camp evidently never had any interest in Wesley. The choice of Biden too makes it harder for Obama to attack McCain on the Iraq war since Biden voted to give authority to Bush to wage it.

I don't like this pick, but, of course, I shall definitely still support the ticket.

[L. Coyote]

217. The nuances of Biden's opposition to the Iraq invasion will come out soon enough.

Even NPR covered it this AM. Biden is a vocal opponent to Bush's Iraq fiasco.

[Herman74]

105. At least Biden will be a good attack dog, and I suspect he'll do well in the VP Debate. n/t

[Mad_Dem_X]

109. True!

Joe will come out swinging - he's a fighter, just what the Dems need!

[Honeycombe8]

106. Woo Hooooo!!!!!!! I love Biden! Don't know if he's good on the ticket, but I loveim! nt

[Mad_Dem_X]

108. Yes!

:woohoo:

That's my Senator!

[Redneck Socialist]

110. That sucks. n/t

[RareAvis]

112. Biden is a good choice

Maybe playing it safe, but Biden is a good choice.

I am SOOO looking forward to the heightened discourse that will usher OUT the bush admin.


We will have a double treat of eight years of people who speak well and know where other countries are located ...

[ChiciB1]

114. It's GREAT!! With Biden On The Team Now I Won't Have To "Hold My Nose" When

I vote. I have never been big on Obama and now I feel he made a choice. Biden may have some past history that will be splashed around, but NOTHING like the DUO of BIG BIG BUCKS if McLooney picks Romney!

When I think about how much they each have individually it boggles my mind... and WHAT HAVE THEY DONE to help the little guy. I may be out of touch if they have been sympathetic and helped others, but I haven't seen it. Americans really should "look" very close at this factor.

Biden isn't a Senator who has deep pockets and is actually such a congenial guy!

I don't know why everyone is so glum!! Reading these posts just shows me why Democrats lose all the time... WE HAVE NO UNITY!

I, for one think JOE BIDEN is GREAT!! Of course, I'm just one of those BOOMERS who actually saw and lived through some REAL ACTIVISM! The Apathy I see in America has made me depressed for so long and just threw in the towel for quite some time now. Said it's UP TO THE YOUNGER generation, but from what I've seen... the younger generations may whoop and holler, but I've been concerned ALL ALONG if they will ACTUALLY VOTE... much less hit the streets.

But then I live in Florida and have seen very few Obama stickers so far. As for HILLARY, I'm so happy its WASN'T her, and I'm one of those people who was supposed to fit right in her "demographic supporter!" JMHO!!!!

Go Get 'Em JOE!! Now I have to leave and get to work!

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

115. I'm happy w/ this choice; however, I'd vote for Obama if a stick of

butter were the VP.

I hope Biden will also help bring some more white male working class voters back into the Democratic fold.

[The Family Guy]

202. You got your wish then. In your face, Hillary supporters!

Well, he did pick a stick of butter. A stick of butter with a big mouth. Welcome to gaff-fest 08.

I mean really. Why did they feel the need to slap the Hillary voters again? Perhaps a strong female rather than some old "white bread" father figure.....

[AnnieBW]

277. Evan Bayh was her surrogate

And he was in the top 3. In the end, I think that Barack went with someone who had foreign policy experience, was an attack dog, and everybody knows rather than the relative unknowns of Bayh and Kaine.

I wouldn't worry too much about Hillz. When Obama/Biden win, she'll be well compensated. They just can't say what the deal was until they win.

[The Family Guy]

288. Obama let us down, face it.

Joe Biden is a typical Washington insider. Another rich old white guy. If Obama cared at all about the message Hillary was sending, he would have a female VP, or at least a progressive one. It's not Hillary Clinton who needs to be compensated, you dolt....It's the people who believed in her message....and may I remind you that HALF of the Democratic party went for Hillary.

Wake up Barack! If you keep kicking sand in my face, I'll write in Hillary, or vote green. Why would I want to vote for a guy who ignores my positions?

[AnnieBW]

289. Dolt?

Name calling isn't really necessary, unless it's to a Republican. I'm as much of a feminist as anyone, but I didn't want Hillary for VP. It was all about HER and Bill, not the people! As for you and her other fans - I don't care if your problem is that he's black or a man. He's a DEMOCRAT. GET OVER IT. This train is leaving the station. If you don't get on board, you're gonna get left behind.

[The Family Guy]

298. I will not march in lock step

If the name fits.....

What a ridiculous comment. I should support what ever he says because he is a Democrat? It's people like YOU that have allowed Democrats to sell us out for years.

The train is running off the rails. I prefer to stand up and INSIST on change, rather than to be a lemming and drink the kool-aid because people like you tell me I will be left behind. Go ahead and be taken for granted....but don't whine like a baby in 6 months when you find out that you did not get what you had hoped for.

[AnnieBW]

344. Have fun voting for McMansion

Don't come back whining when your right to choose is taken away.

[bitchkitty]

300. Slap Hillary voters? How so? n/t

[erpowers]

116. Don't Like the Choice

I do not like this choice. It seems to me that this goes against the majority of what Obama has been saying since he started running for President. He said people should not vote for Hillary Clinton because she was too old school, but then he picks Joe Biden, who has 35 years in the Senate, for his Vice President. He said people should not vote for Hillary Clinton because she voted for the Iraq war; however, he picked Joe Biden, who also voted for the Iraq War and give what I believe to be one of the stupidest speeches on the subject. In my opinion based on what he (Biden) said in his speech he should have voted against the war.

I am not saying Obama should have picked Clinton for his running mate. I contend there must have been someone else who could have represented change an had not voted for the Iraq War.

[ckramer]

120. True. But Joe is only a VP

As long as the P wants to change, that's all it matters.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

119. Congratulations to Barack and Joe!!!! We're ready!

[Name removed]

324. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Joanne98]

121. Biden is the perfect choice. The ultimate "guy you want to have a beer with"

Let the right try to turn him into an elite French cheese eater. It won't work. Plus he's a great fighter. I'm very happy with this pick. Put on the boxing gloves. It's time to rock and roll.

:toast:

[bdamomma]

122. Yes, I am so excited!

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

[blue97keet]

123. Biden on Trade ???

If the VP candidate is the "attack dog" does anybody have a sense of whether Biden will go for McCain's jugular on the so called "free trade" agenda? Obama was wimpy enough to take an ally of Rubin the architect of NAFTA as economic adviser. On the plus side maybe we won't have Bill Clinton in the wings lobbying for Columbia or Hillary for Tata Consultancy and H-1B. The Democrats had better not be out to loose the election on trade issues.

[amyrose2712]

125. I am very happy with the choice.

Biden was my second choice after Dennis. He has the "experience" and foreign policy knowledge to fill this ticket. I hope this helps. I still think it is way too close for my liking. Let's get them in office!

[harun]

146. I don't like his ties with big banking but the choice is a good one and I

like it.

Smart choice from Obama. Republicans wanted Obama to pick someone who they could scare the hell out of the American people with. Someone they could make people think that if they became President for some reason couldn't handle the job. I think Biden could handle the job if need be just fine.

I think he is a good communicator and is an honorable person.

[senaca]

302. He's quintessentially Obama's LBJ

It's a smart pick. Lets face it to turn the country around with bold plans what is needed is someone who knows how to sheppard these ideas through Congress. Biden can do that. As the first major decision of the Obama presidency it shows somewhat his thought process. I'm excited to see what his cabinet will look like.

[Turbineguy]

129. What great news to wake up to.

I am delighted!

[bdamomma]

130. wonderful news to wake up to.

Let's give a donation!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[L. Coyote]

219. Here is that link:

https://donate.barackobama.com/page/contribute/splashone

[mistertrickster]

131. Oh, sh!t. Nothing represents "change" more than a guy who's been in Washington since Nixon.

Oh, well. You go to the polls with the candidates you've got, not the candidates you want.

[snappyturtle]

143. I understand your point that being Biden has been in Washington

a long time. I think Biden will make a good confidant for Obama. Biden knows the inside ropes and that should serve President Obama well. That might have been a problem with Sebelius or Kaine. One thing we don't have to worry about is name recognition! I am VERY happy with this choice. :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

[L. Coyote]

221. VP Biden will be a great President of the Senate, meeting Leahy's approval!

No more Mr. "Go f**k yourself" Cheney!!

[TexasBushwhacker]

149. Oh please

The biggest negative (and positive in some ways) that Obama has is lack of experience. Biden has what Obama lacks. Without a viable/spoiler third party candidate, it's rightly assumed that Democrats will vote for Obama and Republicans will vote for McCain. That's the way that most of the votes will go. What both candidates are going for are the independents; those fickle "swing" voters. There are millions of them, and their votes can win an election. Biden may not be your number one choice, but he is a choice that makes for a stronger ticket to undecided voters. Grow up!

[mistertrickster]

155. Thanks for the personal attacks, Tex. I just don't get enough of those as a progressive in KANSAS.

Your concern about the independents (i.e., idiots) vote is warranted. However, what of his base and the youth vote that find this choice utterly uninspired?

[TexasBushwhacker]

163. Will he LOSE votes from his base with Biden?

I don't think so. It's about winning the election. I think Biden will help.

[mistertrickster]

165. 20-30 percent of Hillary supporters say they won't vote for Obama, after

the primary.

This does nothing to bring them back.

Let alone the youth vote . . .

[TexasBushwhacker]

172. Okay, who's your pick?

Personally, I don't think the youth vote is an issue, because Obama is a lot younger than McCain. The Clinton supporters who won't vote for Obama are already lost. They weren't necessarily coming back if Clinton was VP, and I doubt she was really in the running anyway. If Obama is good enough for Clinton to support now, I would hope that he's good enough to vote for against McCain.

[mistertrickster]

299. My pick would have been in order Russ Feingold, Al Gore, Bill Richardson, Hillary Clinton. nt

[TexasBushwhacker]

335. I'd be cool with Feingold or Richardson

Gore said he wasn't interested in being VP again and there was no way he'd run against Hillary for President. I would think he might be interested in being the head of the EPA though, which would be great.

As VP, I don't think that Clinton balances the ticket much. She doesn't have much more experience than Obama, and she has a lot of people that absolutely hate her guts. I think she'd be good in a cabinet position though, maybe Attorney General.

[jrockford]

138. An Irish Catholic as potential VP. Can't say I'm upset n/t

[mdmc]

153. America gets what it deserves

:shrug:

The DLC is our kind of corporatist.

[MilesColtrane]

212. I've been looking.

I can't find anything about Biden ever being a member of the DLC.

He did give a speech at the Progressive Policy Institute in 2003 though.

[Sy Kopath]

156. Obama & Biden - Let's Get Behind Them

I thought the reason the MSM was bringing up the name of CHET Edwards yesterday was because they already had all of the materials printed up because he had chosen JOHN Edwards and they wouldn't have to have all those campaign bumper stickers, posters and signs redone.

Oh well - let's push for Obama and Biden!

Gobama!

[mistertrickster]

160. Get behind them and kick them in the ass to do something progressive.

Institute universal health care
Raise taxes on the rich
Cut funding for the military (i.e., stop welfare for megacorps)
Re-nationalize what was privatized
Re-regulate big business
Protect the environment
Fund alternative energy

[lovuian]

157. It makes me sick Biden is a pathetic choice

Obama what a stupid move

Now I'm really worried about the election

[mistertrickster]

162. Yup. Me too. He's following Michael Moore's script on how to lose

the election. The RepubliCONs run right and win. We run to the middle and lose.

You know what's in the middle of the road?
A yellow stripe and dead armadillos.
Jim Hightower

[TexasBushwhacker]

167. And Caroline Kennedy is a better choice?

That's who Michael Moore suggested. Someone with NO experience as an elected official. I have no doubt she's a nice person and loves her country, but she has no qualifications to run this country and be Commander in Chief. The VP is supposed to be as qualified as the President. Biden is. Caroline Kennedy isn't.

[defendandprotect]

241. THAT's the democratic concept; that any citizen can come forward and

participate in government ---

Somewhat complicated by all the war machinery bankrupting us ---
for more than 60 years! And secret intelligence and "shadow governments" ---

but any average human being of normal intelligence should be able to do it -- !!!

And what did Bush have but balls --- ????


And, while I wouldn't dream that Caroline Kennedy would have said "yes" . . .

she is certainly politically aware and highly intelligent --- and human.

She's also a progressive ---

All assets which were missing the last 8 years and more ---

[OHDEM]

187. Well, if we listen to what Obama said...

He said he wanted a running mate that would challenge his ideas & not just be a "yes" person. Biden fits that bill! Having a young progressive & a moderate together isn't a bad thing! Perhaps with their combined ideas & experience, we can get some real changes in this country! Besides, the VP is great for saying the things the Presidential candidate can't or shouldn't. Biden fits that job perfectly.

There's also the issue of people being able to relate to the ticket. There are many people who can't see themselves in Obama due to race or perceived class differences, but Joe is white, older & blue collar.

I'm looking forward to seeing Obama & his beautiful family with Joe & his beautiful family! :patriot:

[defendandprotect]

243. Neither Obama nor Biden support SINGLE PAYER health care -! That's change?????

No . . . that's the DLC in play --- !!!

[OHDEM]

319. I hear that!

Healthcare, in my opinion, is the most important issue this election. We must end the war & get our boys home, we need to get alternative energy going & we need jobs. But healthcare can't wait.

If we get the White House & enough seats in Congress, I think we can get a program. Hopefully not a program for our tax dollars to go to insurance companies.

[fascisthunter]

158. I Thought So....

[sloppyjoe25s]

159. An Excellent Choice 2:47am in New Mexico

Biden will be a great choice - with the muscle and strength to attack and defend with equal vigor.

Also, he has an outstanding personal story - and will help alot with the "working class whites", and some of the older voters that still have some reservations about Obama.

This is a Dream ticket - plain and simple.

[sofa king]

161. Great. Let's get going, then.

And here's hoping that Biden isn't the teaspoon of sewage in the vat of fine wine that I fully expect him to be.

[CaptJasHook]

170. Great Choice for VP, thank God it's over.

I was so sick of hearing the same old Primary discussion played over and over and over on here.

Now at least the whiners have a factual choice. AND we don't have to hear about Hillary for a while.

That said, I like Biden, he's a strong choice to win in November. However, I am still waiting for cabinet picks to see how Obama will govern. Obama is still in campaign mode and must make choices to win over voters. We still cannot tell how he will govern without that pressure.

He really, really is a smart man. I would have hated to have to make the VP decision.

[lanlady]

174. not a bad choice for Veep

What I hold against Biden is his support for that awful bankrupcy bill. Could McSame attack him for that, or did he also vote yes on that anti-people piece of crap?

But otherwise I do respect the man. I look forward him debating the vacuous Mitt the Plastic Mormon (or whomever McSame picks).

[SOS]

175. Voted for the war

Voted YES on "Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq 2002"

What a staggering disappointment.

[Herman74]

196. Yeah, and in so doing, makes it harder for Obama to attack McCain on the Iraq War

One wonders too about the judgment of someone who would trust Bush to do the right thing with regards to war.

[SOS]

216. Exactly

Clinton, McCain and even Biden have criticized Obama for lack of "experience".
Obama has always countered with the "judgment" position; that he was wise enough to oppose this "dumb, rash war" in 2002.
What's the position now?

[defendandprotect]

244. 73 years old, put the pervert Clarence Thomas on the SC, and voted FOR the war--!!!!

Wow . . . ain't change grand --- !!!!

[OHDEM]

183. Yea Joe!

I love Joe Biden! Always enjoy seeing him on the talk shows because he really is a straight talker. The gaffes are just a side effect of that, but I think he'll do just fine.

Obama is intelligent & articulate which are 2 things Bush & McCain lack, but he doesn't have that bulldog instinct. Enter Joe Biden! I don't want to sink to the Repub level, but we need to be TOUGH! Face it, that macho stuff sells in this country & we need someone who can talk the talk AND walk the walk.

I would have loved to see Hillary or my 1st choice - Edwards, but Joe just might be the best choice in this case.

[D23MIURG23]

184. I was hoping all along that this would be his choice.

[tilsammans]

185. I'm not on fire for Biden, but . . .

. . . I think he gives Dems a winnable ticket.

:dem:

[atjrpsych]

188. At first I didn't think so, but Biden is a fantastic choice

As I said I had questions about Biden as a VP running mate, but after doing some research on him, I think he is what Obama needs. I am not thrilled about him not considering Hillary, but I think that has more to do with bill clinton.

[AlbertCat]

194. What the VP does

All you who are disappointed....and those that are not.... let us remember that the job of VP is not to ensure a win, tho' that would be helpful. It is also not to run the country, altho' that's what's been going on for 8 years. It's not even to sit around and wait for the Prez's demise so he can step in.

He is mainly the president of the Senate.... it's tie breaker and leader.

So who thinks what about that? I'm curious.

[L. Coyote]

224. Judiciary Committee Chairperson 1987-1995. Look out Corrupt Bastards Club.

The one thing that stands out to me is this aspect of Biden's experience in the Senate.

Is this a powerful signal? Look out Bush criminals!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden

Judiciary Committee
Biden is a long-time member of the U.S. Senate Committee on the Judiciary, which he chaired from 1987 until 1995 and served as ranking minority member from 1981 until 1987 and again from 1995 until 1997. In this capacity, he dealt with issues related to drug policy, crime prevention, and civil liberties. While chairman, Biden presided over two of the most contentious U.S. Supreme Court confirmation hearings: Robert Bork in 1987 and Clarence Thomas in 1991.

[muntrv]

195. I like the choice. The VP choice would be slammed no matter who Obama chose.

[LindyHope]

197. Biden, Corruption, and the Bankruptcy Reform Act

.

I will never forget listening to Biden speaking on the Senate Floor in support of the Bankruptcy Reform Act!!

It was a disgusting event.

How he was able to get through his presentation with a straight face I will never know.

His talk was full of the standard falsehoods parroted from the MBNA script.

I am saddened and disgusted that our ticket will include a "man" so totally owned by corporate loansharks....A "man" who stood before the Nation to speak out in support of the most obscene piece of legislation in the history of our Nation. A "man" who chose to speak falsehoods contrary to all independent generated facts. A "man" who chose to support a bill that was written, bought,and paid for by the credit card industry... A bill that favored special interests over compassion for those unlucky individuals bankrupted by medical expenses and other misfortune... We have now lost the "high-ground." If I here Biden attack our opponents on the grounds of being in the pocket of paid lobbyists I'm gonna puke.

I am deeply saddened by Obama' decision -- it is vile.

Sorry :-(

.

[philly_bob]

215. You're right, but I hope you'll change your mind as you get to know Biden

and he proves a fierce fighter for an issue that you care about.

I wonder how Biden feels today about the Bankruptcy Act. Yes, he was a tool of the corporate loansharks in that battle, but after all the flak he's taken -- that we've given him -- I wonder if he's still Mr. MBNA. I doubt it. It lost him his presidential bid.

[defendandprotect]

249. Biden's entire history has been this kind of corporate-support vs people's government ....

and the shame of the hearings which permitted Clarence Thomas to sit on the SC will never

be lived down ---

He did nothing to chastise or control the GOP in those hearings ---

and he betrayed Prof. Anita Hill and those representing her ---

and betrayed the public in not permitting the actual truth of Clarence Thomas'

PERVERSIONS to be heard by the dozen or more witnesses who were waiting to be heard

for Prof. Hill's side ---

If you want betrayal -- you have your man --- !!!

[philly_bob]

256. I watched the Anita Hill hearings, & Biden fought hard against Thomas.

I thought he opposed Clarence Thomas and defended Anita Hill -- and was a rather effective
parliamentary infighter and witness questioner. Maybe I'm wrong, but that was my strong impression.

Someone else brought up the Thomas hearings as one of Biden's negatives. Anybody know if those 1991 hearings are available online?

[defendandprotect]

261. You don't seem to know that the witnesses -- a dozen or more -- who would have supported

what Prof. Anita Hill was saying about Clarence Thomas' sexual-harrassment of women and

constant disgusting sexual references to females were TRUE ---

This was behavior they would have testifed took place at the EEOC and vs EEOC females ---

These were employees of the EEOC including a speech writer ---

And, how could Biden have been effectively "defending" Prof. Hill when he permitted the

GOP to try to turn her into a slut? When he permitted the most outrageous kinds of

attacks on her --- and rumors about her --- to be introduced by the GOP???


Some day let's hope that C-span or PBS will replay all of these hearings --- in toto ---

and you can watch while Biden let a GOP witness ramble on for hours into the middle of

the night/morning suggesting that Prof. Hill had been pursuing him . . .

only to have the guy four hours later say he was unsure whether she had called him or

he had called her.

Meanwhile, the Hill witnesses waited on Biden's commitment to their lawyers and to Hill

lawyers --- only to see the hearings shut down!!

[philly_bob]

271. You're right, I didn't know that. See response to Mayer cite.

We agree on one thing: we'd like to see those hearings again, and hear the behind-the-scenes story from participants.

Were you involved in those proceedings, D&P, or are you going on the Mayer book? (You don't have to answer that.) You sound like you had some first-hand experience in the hearings. I was just a passive TV-watcher who stayed up too late. I checked with my girlfriend, who also watched it with me, and she remembers Biden as a figher for Hill.

Documentary makers please note: "The Hill Hearings, 20 Years Later" would have a large audience. I'd love to hear what Hill has to say today...

[defendandprotect]

308. I think the public would find them highly shocking today if the hearings were

replayed in FULL --

expecially Hatch, Simpson and other right-wing Senators reading quotes from . . . what was
the book? The Exorcist?

Simpson suggesting rumors about Hill -- "info about her being thrown over the transom of his
office" --!!! Really disgusting stuff by the GOP gang of them.

No . . . Biden did not protect Hill from this GOP insanity which went on and on ---
just shocking!!!

There were many people involved with supporting Prof. Anita Hill -- her own lawyers and
a number of interested groups. THAT is aside from the dozen or so witnesses who would
have testified that what she was saying about Thomas was true . . . according to THEIR
own experiences. At least one of them was an EEOC speech writer.

Their story is told in the book "Strange Justice" and I'm quite sure you would find it in
your library or the reference dept would quickly get it for you.


No -- I wasn't involved in any way in the hearings --- but I did watch the hearings and it
was quite clear that Thomas was a PERVERT based on the testimony OF HIS OWN FRIENDS!!!

"Eat shit with a spoon from my ass" was one of his favorite expressions according to one
of his friends. Thomas was also a "lover of hard core pornography" according to his Yale
classmates --- that's the kind of porn where you go into a booth alone, masturbate standing
in someone else's semen and then move on. And much more. That is the man we have on the
Supreme Court today!

Again, obviously this man should NEVER have made it to even a hearing.
But the GOP wanted someone like him on the court --- probably someone blackmailable --
and someone they could count on for something like the 2000 decision.

Besides the book, there was a lot of info circulating in magazines and in interviews --
I have a lot of info on it but in journals and that's not immediately accessible ---
but I'm working on one day getting thru them --- lots of interesting stuff in them!

Sen. Paul Simon said --- "If they had known at the time what they learned later about Thomas
he would not have been considered at all."

[philly_bob]

318. More on remembering Biden at Anita Hill/Clarence Thomas hearings...

This has been an interesting discussion of the Anita Hill/Clarence Thomas hearings, D&P. Much of your criticism of Biden is based on behind-the-scenes deals with the Republicans that I can't verify. As Committee Chairman, I thought he was trying to be fair by letting Thomas' defenders talk. That's the Chairman's job. When he talked or questioned witnesses, I thought he was tough and clearly opposed to Thomas.

Anyway, thanks for the cite. There are 26 used copies of Mayer's STRANGE FRUIT available at Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Strange-Justice-Selling-Clarence-Thomas/dp/0452274990/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1219544218&sr=8-1

Make that 25 now that I've ordered one.

Anyway, lots of interesting subjects come up looking back at those hearings.

The October 1991 hearings represented a paradigmatic change in the line between private and personal. Bringing up sexual behavior in a confirmation hearing (or presidential press conference) was not accepted political or journalistic practice. I was trained in that era of journalism. You simply didn't talk about people's personal lives. Of course, since then, the Right pulled off Monica-gate, and the Left has countered with its own discovery of sexual hypocrisy on the Right, and here we are.

To me the main thing about the outcome of those hearings is how poorly Thomas lives up to his judicial responsibility. Thomas NEVER SPEAKS at Court. His wife was on the Bush transition team when he decided Bush v. Gore. He votes wrong a solid 90% of the time, slavishly following Scalia and a corporatist and neocon agenda.

Again nice reminiscing with you, D&P, and I hope someone replays those hearings...

[defendandprotect]

325. I'm glad you're going to read it . . ..

I hope it is an unabridged copy -- hard to tell these days!

That's "Strange Justice" --- not "Strange Fruit" -- !!! :)

Just want to comment that my criticism of Biden is NOT based on "behind-the-scenes deals with the Republicans..." They are based on Biden's ACTIONS and his commitment to Hill
lawyers and support groups and assurances that the supporting witnesses would be able to testify
to the full committee. And the betrayal of that commitment.

I have no idea who Biden may or may not have made "deals" with --- I am reporting to you
actual fact that the witnesses --- more than a dozen --- were never heard .....
after full assurances to the Hill lawyers from Biden that they would be heard.
In fact, as I recall it, Biden assured the audience watching earlier on that those
witnesses would be appearing.

Re this . . .

The October 1991 hearings represented a paradigmatic change in the line between private and personal. Bringing up sexual behavior in a confirmation hearing (or presidential press conference) was not accepted political or journalistic practice. I was trained in that era of journalism. You simply didn't talk about people's personal lives.

This set a precedent ... because what should have occurred in PRIVATE did not happen!!!
You have to understand that Prof. Anita Hill had offered her info to the committee in
private -- but her offer was denied. Biden and others didn't think that sexual harassment
of females was an issue!

The way this finally moved on was that women from the USHR --- led by Rep. Pat Schroder ---
walked over to the Senate to confront the Hearing officials. That became news and the
spotlight was on and what would have simply been the usual kind of patriarchal play turned out
to "have legs." The issue resounded all over the nation with women. That was it . . . the
charges had to be heard.

I think the GOP understood that if all of this -- ALL of it --- had been heard in private and
the info moved to the full Senate and the press that Clarence Thomas would have been over.
And that's the way it should have been done, originally.

Meanwhile, the GOP evidently very badly wanted Clarence Thomas on the court ---
I'd guess because he is an African-American who is highly controllable because of his
perverted background and I'm quite sure it's well documented in GOP files!
They certainly got their reward with the 2000 election steal via the Supremes.

They decided on the "high tech lynching of a black male" approach --
Still that wasn't believable once you heard and saw Prof. Anita Hill ---
and certainly would not have stood up had her witnesses been heard!
That was the catch . . . those witnesses couldn't be heard ---
and in the end, despite Biden's promises even to citizens --- they weren't heard.

Keep in mind that Sen. John Danforth -- one of the strongest Senate "Christian" supporters
of Clarence Thomas told Thomas that . . . he would support him "even if what Prof. Anita
Hill was saying was true" -- !!! Evidently, Thomas had done Danforth quite a financial
favor in one of his cases where he should have --- but didn't -- recuse himself!

Granted what you are saying of the "times" is somewhat true --
there was still a certain stiffness about all of that but the wall was crumbling.
Again --- the commitee could have handled this confidentially --
The decision that sexual harassment was a non-issue for these males however shows you
how DATED they and their thinking was --- or at least their thinking about what they could
still get away with . . .

As for "Monica Lewinsky" ... the public didn't want the impeachment -- did not support it.
They weren't that shocked, after all --- only a few!

Again -- Thomas was put on the court to do exactly what he's doing --- otherwise he'll be gone.

[defendandprotect]

246. I agree with you . . . it's vile ---

and he voted for the Iraq war ---

hasn't supported single payer -- or even universal health care?

Biden has kept himself in the Senate all this time by selling away government and

any values he may have once had.

We shouldn't be looking for deal makers - we should be looking for rebels.

[The Family Guy]

198. What a truly unimaginative and uninspiring choice!

Sigh. Another let down. I should have stayed "Green".

[wordpix]

279. "I should have stayed "Green". As an environmental activist for 30 yrs., I see the Green Party

in the US does not have candidates that get much notice and there was no GP pres. candidate that I know of, anyway. So staying with the Green Party isn't a choice in this race. :crazy:

[The Family Guy]

286. The only way to send a message is to use your vote

Obama started out with fire and offered change. That "change" seems to keep changing though. All his cutting edge stuff is watered down as he drifts quickly to the right. Now, he is so audacious as to feel he can stuff Joe Biden down our throats. If you care about winning the battle, than go ahead and vote Obama no matter what. Let him know that he can spit in your face, and you'll smile and ask for another.

I want to see his old message. I want to see public election funding. No more war...immediate withdrawal. No more drilling.....not as a part of ANY package. I want Obama to change.....back into the old Obama and not the one that is quickly selling us all out. Bah.

[navarth]

199. YEAH BABY!! NOW WE'LL KICK SOME ASS!!

I was very afraid that he would pick Kaine, Bayh, or some other wimpy candidate. Big Joe will kick some ass!!

'Nuff said.

[hasssan1]

200. IT'S TIME FOR WAR ??? NOW THEY HAVE TO HIT MCLAME HARD HARD AND HARDER !!

IF OBAMA/BIDEN ARE SERIOUS FOR WINNING AND CLEANING THE NASTY AND SMELLY GARBAGE FORM WHITE HOUSE , THEY HAVE TO GET RELAY TOUGH AND HIT THE SOB MCLAME HARD AND PLAY DIRTY AND NASTY WITH TRUTH.

I CAN'T EMPHASIZE ENOUGH THAT IF THEY KEEP PLAYING NICE AND SOFT THEY WILL LOOSE JUST LIKE 2004 AND FOR SURE THIS TIME THIS COUNTRY WILL GO TO HELL.



please call: [phone] AND ASK OBAMA TO GET TOUGH AND NASTY WITH MCLAME AND HIT HIM HARD EVERYDAY IN DENVER AND EXPOSE THIS ANTI-AMERICAN ELITIST SOB MCLAME.

[Chovexani]

205. LOL. That's some change alright.

Biden (D-MBNA). :rofl:

Time to brush up on my French and check on rents in the Toronto area.

[progressivebydesign]

209. Srsly - I'm sending all my credit card bills to Biden.

Nice to know that Obama picks the bff to the credit card sharks. Yeah.. that's REAL change, alright. God.. the DNC is addicted to failure.

[Chovexani]

210. I'm floored. Just floored.

That bankruptcy bill was one of the worst pieces of legislation passed in my (albeit short) lifetime. We haven't even BEGUN to feel the effects of it yet.

And its mastermind now gets the VP nod? WTF, Barack? Granted that "short list" was like a Gong Show lineup anyway, but fucking hell, man. Surely we can do better than this.

This party has jumped the shark.

[Khaotic]

206. Obama/Biden

Well then, it has come to pass.

I had some coworkers who were really on fire for Biden here in Iowa for the Caucus.

In fact, it was due to their efforts that Biden received two of the delegates he received that night. In each of their locations in Bettendorf, Iowa, they persuaded a handful of Obama supporters (there were plenty to spare) to join them and form a group large enough to make them viable. The way they persuaded the Obama candidates was by letting them know that joining them would take away a delegate from Hillary.

The calculations were made and just enough Obama supporters joined the Biden supporters to give Joe a delegate in each of the Bettendorf locations, while taking away a delegate from Hillary.

That's the truth ... no lie.

I was the precinct chair in D23 in Davenport and all the Biden supporters joined Obama when the Biden group didn't have enough people to remain viable.

We had a record turnout at our location which had more than 248 people crammed into a little cafeteria at the Harry Truman Elementary School in Davenport where my children go to school.

It was a grand night.

My point in my story is that here in Northeast Iowa the Obama and Biden supporters came together and that it seems ironic that Obama has chosen Biden as his running mate.

Personally I know there are negatives w/ Biden that will come up, but I think he does have a lot that he's bringing to the campaign which will take us to the White House.





GOBAMA/BIDEN!!!

[progressivebydesign]

207. "Obama, candidate of change, picks the ultimate insider" the headlines already read..

Yep. Once again the Dem Party screws up. While it's been proven over and over again that Americans vote for the regular-guys, the ones you want to have a beer with, Obama chooses a guy that screams INSIDER and career Senator, and bff to the credit card companies.

Okay. and since most people here have no problem attacking McCranky on his age... why in the hell would Obama pick a guy that would be well into his 70s after Obama's term? Are you all going to say those things about Biden when he's in his 70s?

For all of Obama's talk about change... I find it hard to swallow that he'd pick a corporate fave like Biden. Change.. it's just something that Axelrod peddles with all his clients.

And where the fuck is my text message???

[The Family Guy]

211. Just take a picture of them driving in an M-1 tank and.....

the disaster could be complete.

Ok, so Biden is: Old, white, male, owned by special interest, voted for the war, DC insider, a poor public speaker, rich, elitist....and on and on.

Well, that will be a real change, won't it.

Who is making these decisions? Karl Rove??? What a disaster.

[rucognizant]

231. No he's NOT!

You are swallowing the RW talking points!
Biden is one of the 3 poorest Senators! Meaning he has not been profiteering in his long years
in the Senate.
He is a great public speaker as he speaks the TRUTH even if it means being blunt! ( I am sick of hearing weasely
lies, excuses, cover-ups for 8 years.....) Biden doesn't do that!
Rich? Elitist? I don't think so................His wife is STILL WORKING as a SCHOOL TEACHER.............. Is Laura Bush still reporting to a school every morning to work?
Not A DC insider, he still commutes from DC to Del. every night! That doesn't leave a lot of time to be wined & dined by lobbiests.
I grew up 45 minutes away from Whilmingo=ton.we used to go over there as teens to the Longwood Gardens when teens did that instead of rock bands & drugs.......... So I think I have a historic sense of the man. ( You might call that 6 degrees of separation from Joe Biden/ mutual aquaintences, distant relatives, experiences, formative events...etc. )
I think he is a terrific choice!)
My husbands people were from Wilkes Barre PA. right near Scranton. Have you spent any weekends in that area to get a sense of the people who came from there? Family Guy, have you spent any times in Whilmington? I have.
Now that I live in Downeast Maine ( for 17 years) I have a pretty good sense of the complete differences that develop in different regions, historically formed by the elements that make up a area..

[defendandprotect]

251. There are zillions of "family guys" living in every state who would NOT have voted for Iraq War . .

and would NOT have voted for the Bankruptcy Bill ---

and who would vote FOR single payer health care ---

Biden has never mentioned it ---

I don't even think he is for universal health care!!!

[The Family Guy]

294. Amen to that! Well said.

Well said. Biden is not a progressive democrat. Biden is a politician. One who votes the wrong way on alot of issues.

[defendandprotect]

250. And then DU'ers wonder why the nation doesn't progress . . . !!!

More Pelosi, Reid, Biden's -- more DLC ---

and when they see the betrayals, what's the word?

"Wait until next time" --- i.e. we'll do the same thing and expect a different outcome!!!

[The Family Guy]

296. The change has sure changed it's spots

Betrayal is a good word here. Talk is cheap, but so far every action I see says that Obama is more interested in winning than in doing what he said he would do.

If we don't apply pressure now.....before he is elected, then we will have won nothing at all. Obama needs to know that we support the ideas that he espoused during the primary, and we are not a cult of personality. If he chooses to turn his back on those ideals, then we need to make sure he understands that we will turn our back on him.

Now is the time, because on November 6th, it will be all too easy for him to ignore his promises.

[defendandprotect]

312. I understand your very sincere post . . .

and agree ---

but, as long as he is talking with DLC money men --- it's a threat to us ---

"Turning our backs on him" is very little to persuade him, IMO.

Keep your chin up -- sometimes miraculous answers come out of no where ---

and we really, really need single payer health care!

[Individualist]

340. Indeed!

It has been said the definition of insanity is repeatedly doing the same thing and expecting different results. :crazy:

As long as the party takes its marching orders from DLC, nothing will "change".

[drm604]

213. Age

why in the hell would Obama pick a guy that would be well into his 70s after Obama's term?

I don't understand this objection. It's his current age that's important, not his age 8 years from now. In any case, Biden comes off as much more articulate and with it than McCain.

[defendandprotect]

253. Biden has already suffered a brain aneurysm ---

[drm604]

284. Which has nothing to do with age.

This was discussed on CNN. Most brain aneurysms are things that you are born with. They then manifest themselves years later. His was found and treated. When they treat a brain aneurysm they look for and treat any others. This means that the chance of him suffering another one are very low, regardless of age.

[defendandprotect]

311. I'm glad to hear that . . . however, I do think these things take a toll . . .

[drm604]

315. You seem determined to believe that his aneurysm should be an issue.

Lots of people face and overcome health problems during their life. I'm not sure what kind of toll you think this has taken on him but he certainly seems to be healthy and capable to me. I think you're worrying about something that is a non-issue.

[defendandprotect]

320. OK . . . I won't worry ...

[Odin2005]

220. YAY!!! Biden is Da Man!!!

Biden takes the train in from Delaware to work every morning. He's a very "down to earth" guy, or so I've heard.

[Karl_Bonner_1982]

223. Biden has a habit of making blunders....

This is from the infamous shove-down-throat comment over a year ago:

http://newsbusters.org/node/12464

Will he come to have the same nickname as John Boehner and myself?

[wordpix]

280. and McCondos never makes blunderous statements?

[L. Coyote]

229. Has this thread broken all DU'sTroll records, or what? Wack-a-Mole.

The trolls really came out of the woodwork in force for this event.

I got several e-mails that I may turn over to the authorities,
and I may file a civil action against one of them. Yahoo has
tombstoned one of his e-mail accounts already.

[Miss Chybil]

230. I respect the decision making capabilities of the man I intend to vote for

for President of the United States. Congratulations, Joe Biden and welcome aboard!

[ChiciB1]

248. To ALL You NAY-SAYERS... MSM Is Actually "Fawning Over This Choice!!

So tell me... Just How Bad Can It Be???

When MSM can PUMP for him, then I'd say Obama made a FANTASTIC choice!

[defendandprotect]

254. Maybe you should rethink that . . . you want a VP who corporate-media loves . . .???

[ChiciB1]

266. I've Watched Biden For Some Time Now, And YES He Has Voted

for bills that aren't popular, but then were the DEMS EVER going to get them passed??? Don't get me wrong, I say stand your ground and have a spine, and my preference would have been FEINGOLD! However, Feingold would have been tarred and feathered as "ultra-Liberal" and you know how well that has worked out.

And remember.... Obama is going to be POTUS, Biden is a GREAT attack dog and a wealth of information and experience. I'm a Liberal of the Wellstone type, but DAMN IT I'm SICK of MSM ignoring us! So Biden's role won't be the same. ANY person would bring a certain amount of baggage, and God knows, for this white-Boomer woman, I couldn't TAKE HILLARY! I'm supposed to be in HER little box of supporters and just couldn't do it!

So, if you're saying Corp shill, I'm saying grab on and let MSM drool!! How can it hurt, and how do YOU know they won't change tactics when in office???

Just look at what WE got with THE IDIOT & THE DICK!! Did you ever think it would get THIS BAD???

An old cheer.... Hit 'em high, hit 'em low, but just don't let 'em go!!!

[defendandprotect]

310. What is all this crap about . . .

anyone being "ultra liberal" when you can turn around and call the GOP ultra everything ---
they are obsessed/fanatical --- ????

Why are people so frightened of so little?

It is corporate-media which should fear us -- the public. Turn the crap off!

If you heard Biden speak for Bankruptcy bill, it was sickening ---

Stop worrying about MSM "ignoring us" --- and start ignoring them --- !!!

You're a female and you're not incensed with what Biden did re Thomas? Wow!

My objection to HRC is the same as to Biden . . . they're both DLC --

you want more corporate-control of the party?


Look . . . I'm just saying, if you find something wrong with our having put Democrats in

office in 2006 only to see them do NOTHING --- only to have them BETRAY us on Iraq, financing

the war -- FISA - TORTURE - SUBPEONAE, etal --- then you should be wondering why we're putting

a DLC'er in the VP spot for the money men and whether the outcome will be the same as 2006.


Oh, Pelosi and Reid "did change tactics" . . . but unfortunately in the wrong direction--!!!

I've been aware since '63 and the coup on the government that we were probably headed towards

fascism; however, I thought we partly escaped it when Nixon went down -- and, yes, I'm

shocked at the renewed levels with Reagan and the "October Surpise" --- and the aggression

of Bush/Cheney beginning with the stealing of election 2000 and with the "Reichstag Fire in NYC"

in 2001....

[BumRushDaShow]

265. Yes...

I noticed the same since I turned on the TV and started browsing the news sites just before 6 am this morning. The M$M is patting themselves on the back for "correctly picking" the candidate and gushing over the man... and will probably continue do so right up to the start of the convention - essentially blocking out much of McLame's lame responses. Some of them are even stumbling over the news as they pushed so for Biden (Fineman, who was just on is an example) and now they got their wish, they have to continue to support their choice.... even though they would probably now want to flip flop and try to bring the ticket down to continue to keep some stupid "horserace" going. :rofl:

It's fascinating to watch the media running around in elated confusion. I expect the McLame folks are running around in confusion too because this will impact their selection for VP and their choice is going to be even more difficult to make now.

[ChiciB1]

273. My Point Exactly!!! n/t

[defendandprotect]

255. Good Luck and Best Wishes to them both . . . but when you begin to get

more Pelosi/Reid - DLC - type decision making --- i.e., BETRAYALS --- don't say

we didn't warn you --- !!!!

[LindyHope]

257. Insta-Poll says its a non-event

New Insta-Poll Says Biden doesn't sway votes either way

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/behind-the-numbers/2008/08/new_data_impact_of_biden.html?hpid=topnews

[Name removed]

260. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Indenturedebtor]

264. WOOOHOOOO my first pick :D Awesome! n/t

[Straight Shooter]

269. Should have been Brian Schweitzer.

Joe's okay, and I'm sure the choice was made logistically with counsel of Axelrod. Schweitzer would have cross-generational, party appeal. He's a maverick, almost an in-your-face kind of guy when it comes to doing what he thinks is right. Or maybe that's just my perception.

Instead we have our staid white father image on the ticket. Wake me up on Election Day. It's a snoozer from here on, especially if McSame chooses Ken doll, the android candidate.

If Obama wins, and then Hillary isn't nominated for Supreme Court Justice, I'm going to be P.O.'d for the rest of my natural life, and maybe in my reincarnation, too. :(

[wordpix]

281. WHO?

[Straight Shooter]

283. Democratic governor of red state Montana.

Doesn't take any crap from the bush administration. Decent all-around likable kind of fellow. There's a Brian Schweitzer forum on DU. Check it out. :)

[Snarkturian Clone]

282. Oh great. Joe "Is the camera on?" Biden.

I'm not happy. I was really hoping Obama would pick someone good. I don't trust Biden as far as I can throw him, which I estimate is about 4-5 feet.

[mother earth]

285. Well done, Obama! I love Biden! It's a beautiful day!

:bounce:

[Name removed]

314. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Black Adder]

291. Well, the Clintons will be happy

Unfortunately, we (in Canada) don't have a pony in this race, but I've never been impressed with Biden and I think McCain/Romney will beat the Obama/Biden ticket.
So, it'll be McCain in 2008 and Hillary in 2012.. I know she'll be happy today.

[Herman74]

329. I May Just Have To Come Join You In Canada. n/t

[goforit]

306. Considering the choices out there,next to Gore, Biden has no fear of being tough

[Name removed]

313. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BreweryYardRat]

317. Not as good a choice as Wes Clark would have been...

...but a damn sight better than Hillary.

[Name removed]

323. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[high density]

334. Great choice

I have been far from civilization since Friday and this was pleasant news to return to!

[humbled_opinion]

339. How do you counter this attack

Obama says McCain is more of the same Washington politics as usual. Joe Biden has been in DC 10 years longer then McCain.... Bide is not a smart choice for a candidate that is espousing change it sends a mixed message to independents.