Police accused of using provocateurs at summit

[GliderGuider]

Source: Toronto Star

A video, posted on YouTube, shows three young men, their faces masked by bandannas, mingling Monday with protesters in front of a line of police in riot gear. At least one of the masked men is holding a rock in his hand.

The three are confronted by protest organizer Dave Coles, president of the Communications, Energy and Paperworkers Union of Canada. Coles makes it clear the masked men are not welcome among his group of protesters, whom he describes as mainly grandparents. He urges them to leave and find their own protest location.

... snip ...

Late Tuesday, photographs taken by another protester surfaced, showing the trio lying prone on the ground. The photos show the soles of their boots adorned by yellow triangles. A police officer kneeling beside the men has an identical yellow triangle on the sole of his boot.

Kevin Skerrett, a protester with the group Nowar-Paix, said the photos and video together present powerful evidence that the men were actually undercover police officers.

Read more: http://www.thestar.com/News/article/248608

---

Well, well, well. Who'd ha' thunk?

[Poll_Blind]

1. If anyone has a link to the pictures of the boots I'd love to see it! n/t

PB

[GliderGuider]

35. Pic and link posted below

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2962268&mesg_id=2962596

[tnlurker]

72. Thanks

My 19 year old son doesn't think that the police would use such tactics. Now I have a little proof.

[Poll_Blind]

76. Thank you! n/t

PB

[mogster]

217. ## Quebec police admit they went undercover at Montebello protest ##

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/08/23/police-montebello.html?ref=rss

Quebec provincial police admitted Thursday that three of their officers disguised themselves as demonstrators during the protest at the North American leaders summit in Montebello, Que.
However, the police force denied allegations its undercover officers were there on Monday to provoke the crowd and instigate violence.

"At no time did the police of the Sûreté du Québec act as instigators or commit criminal acts," the police force said in French in a news release. "It is not in the police force's policies, nor in its strategies, to act in that manner.

"At all times, they responded within their mandate to keep order and security."
(..)

Police-issued boots identified fake protesters
Protest organizers on Wednesday played the video for the media at a news conference in Ottawa. One of the organizers, union leader Dave Coles, explained that one reason protesters knew the men's true identities was because they were wearing the same boots as other police officers.

Coles said on Wednesday that the only thing he didn't know was whether the men were Quebec police, RCMP or hired security officers.
--------------------------------------------

Sorry for hijacking your post, Poll_Blind ;-)

[IndianaGreen]

2. Police provocateurs were present at anti-globalization demonstrations in Seattle and Genoa

Their obvious mission was to discredit the anti-globalization movement. Thank the gods for indymedia.

[Barrett808]

46. I've often suspected the "Eugene anarchists" that busted up the downtown storefronts were cops

Neither of the big marches had arrived downtown by the time they finished with their smashy-smashy. The police had total control of downtown at that point and could easily have rounded up the punks.

Or maybe the anarchists were just lucky, stupid kids.

[Xithras]

98. They were not cops.

They were stupid kids. I met a couple of them, and they were quite happy to recount their "war stories". FWIW, much of my family lives in Central Oregon, and the anarchist/communist groups in that part of the state are small but very real. I once met a real-live Stalinist who actually advocated genocide against anyone that disagreed with his centralized collectivist views.

There are some kooky people out there.

[Barrett808]

131. Well, I advocate genocide against Pink Boys and Normals...

...maybe I should move to Central Oregon, maybe start up Dobbstown II.


http://subgenius.com

[Truth2Tell]

178. Their leaders were the cops

not the kids they exploited in the streets. I've also met many of them and still know some. Some of the guiding hands from Eugene in 99 were very suspicious in nature.

[anitar1]

215. I do not trust the cops here in Eugene and I am

a little old lady. It seems as if the Canadian cops have joined Bush World. just as cops have here. Even when we had a candlelight meeting at the Federal courthouse in support of Cindy Sheehan , cops were filming us from the rooftop across the street. We were so dangerous, old people, families, young people. I know cops were walking through the crowd. It was a very large turnout. Just had to watch all of us dangerous ,taxpaying folks.I deeply resent the attitude they all seem to have .

[Kagemusha]

3. Undercover police officers are one thing. Provocateurs are just wrong.

You can be one and not the other if you're interested in responsible policing. I wish that wasn't the big if that it seems.

[Dr.Phool]

17. This shit's been going on since at least the '60s, probably longer.

It's even been suggested that provocateurs were responsible for the Kent State shootings.

It gives an excuse for violent repression by the cops.

[L. Coyote]

21. Only 50% of the protestors at the Chicago Convention were "plants"

The other 50% were the well-dressed hippies :rofl:

[yardwork]

40. No question that provocateurs were present at Kent State

Some from the left, and definitely some from the government. And the students who were killed by U.S. troops? Unarmed, some of them not even protesting, just trying to walk to class.

[Eric J in MN]

19. Undercover cops don't belong at protests. The message...

...of the protest is supposed to be that of people who are there voluntarily, not people paid to pretend.

There is no safety requirement for there to be undercover cops at protests, and it undermines the message of the protest at best. At worst, the cops will provoke (shoving, etc.) so that other cops can make arrests.

[Kagemusha]

23. I'm not so sure there should be zero undercovers but, provocateurs are wrong.

That's political work, not police work.

[leveymg]

157. Agents provocateur have led the most violent factions of many movements

It's a tactic of authoritarian regimes that often backfires.

Police use of agents provocateur goes back to the 1880s, at least, when the head of the Czar's secret police, the Okhrana (Palace Guard), took control over the combat brigades of the Socialist Revolutionary Party and embarked on an assassinations and bombings campaign that shocked the Russian people and discredited moderate reformers trying to replace the Absolutist regime with a modern republic.

While reform was indeed thwarted, the Okhrana then moved on to carry out a series of international terrorist outrages. One of these false-flag operations, arming Serbian militants in the extremist Black Hand organization, led to the assassination of Austrian Archduke Ferdinand during a visit to Sarajevo in 1913, igniting World War One, leading to the collapse of the Czar's Empire.

See, http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=printer_friendly&forum=364&topic_id=2893522

[otherlander]

186. The Black Hand

was backed by the Czar? Didn't know that...

Damn, I think that this website is slowly making me into an anarchist. The more information I get, the more it seems that any one person being obeyed by a group of people can only lead to disaster...

[PDJane]

4. It's no surprise...........

In fact, as soon as Agnes the Blunt (my mother) saw the protesters being maced and rubber bulleted, her comment was, "They're trying to create a major blow-up, just so they can discredit the whole movement. It looks as though the protesters didn't take the bait."

[GregW]

5. So yellow triangle = police agent???

How about...

Yellow triangle on sole = work boot?

http://www.csa-international.org/product_areas/occ_health_and_sports_safety/footwear/Default.asp?language=english

That took all of 30 seconds to Google

[IndianaGreen]

9. That's a great find, GregW, and one that we won't find the MSM reporting

My experience with provocateurs is one in which the loudest advocates to violent action usually are police undercover agents. Don't have to go to Bush or G-8 summit. In my hometown, the local constabulary is using funds they received for Homeland Security for surveillance of peace activists.

[Richard Steele]

12. Police + disruptors + 4 pairs of identical footwear = "COINCIDENCE" beyond the bounds of probability

Pick any 4 people from that crowd, and the odds of them
wearing footwear made by the same manufacturer are LESS
than the odds of hitting the powerball lotto with a single
$1.00 ticket.

Add in the TWO FACTS that:
A: None of the protestors knew them
B: Their footwear was the same brand preferred by the local cops.

OCCAM'S RAZOR SAYS: "Agents Provocateur"

It ain't rocket science.

[mcg]

60. Indeed, photos showing three provocateurs and police wearing same boots.

From http://www.cupe.ca/gallery/montebello-monday/Montebello_20_ao_t_049
This photo

and this one shown (also shown elsewhere in this thread)

[christymc]

118. Not a triangle... It's a logo.

For Vibram Soles.

The interesting thing is that I only could find this on pages that sold Police / Tactical footwear.



Look at their site.

vibram.us - Police and Fire

Looks like they had the #134AR Technical Lug sole. Interestingly if you look at the different sole patterns that this brand makes, it would be almost impossible that all three masked men and the police standard issue just happened to be the same brand and pattern.

[guruoo]

129. I have a pair of hiking boots that bear that same logo n/t

on edit: I still believe they're cops.

[drm604]

151. Just what I was thinking.

I came to similar conclusions before I read your last paragraph. It certainly does look like #134AR, and that is the only sole pattern I can find that even comes close to resembling the ones in the photo. To be fair, that pattern is sold in three different categories - Industrial, Fire and Police, and Military. The Field and Stream link isn't working so it's impossible to say if they also sell it there.

One thing that's interesting. If you look at vibram.com, which is apparently their home website in Italy, you'll see that Vibram manufactures soles rather than whole boots. Even the US site refers to the products as "soles" and displays them as sole patterns rather than showing the whole boot.

So it looks like you either buy the soles and boots separately, or you custom order your boots with specific soles.

However the purchasing works, even if it were coincidental that they match the police (unlikely) it seems unlikely that these three "gentlemen" would be wearing the same exact sole. How many civilians buy boots thinking about getting the proper sole pattern?

Sure, theoretically they could be some kind of hardcore "earth firsters" who are knowledgeable about the outdoors and cognizant of the importance of proper footwear. But is exact sole pattern all that important to proper traction, and can you really imagine a bunch of hardcore monkey-wrenchers coordinating their footwear? That kind of matching footwear most likely indicates an institutional bulk purchase. Police, Military, etc.

One other interesting point. As I pointed out above these soles appear to be manufactured and marketed separately from the actual boot. Look at the protester on the ground in jeans in the middle of the picture. Why is their duck tape on his boots? Could it be that they're worn or were never assembled properly and the soles were coming off and he therefore has to hold them on with tape? Could it be that undercover police are issued older no longer used footwear so their boots don't look too new and polished?

And why is there fluorescent green paint or dye along the seams between the sole and boot? I can't exactly explain that one, but it seems odd.

On Edit: One other thing - what the hell does he have duck taped to his legs? You can see whatever it is on his left leg. It looks like it might be his wallet but it's hard to tell

[GliderGuider]

153. So you're saying that the probability of that combination of that sole and those uppers

being purchased casually by a random group of civilians is about as remote as Timbuktu? Your reasoning sounds solid to me.

[drm604]

154. That's pretty much what I'm saying.

Obviously they're not random. Obviously, whoever they are, they were there together. So I suppose it's possible that these three guys bought their boots together. But it still seems very unlikely. As a guy I can tell you that three males shopping for footwear together is pretty unlikely. Add to that the facts that their footwear also match the police's and that at least one of them appears to have tried to disguise his footwear and it gets pretty hard to believe that this was all random chance.

[arikara]

169. all that decoration and tape on his footwear

is probably just to cover up his boots. I've heard that cops are notoriously cheap about buying their own street shoes and how the hookers used to ID the undercover boys was by the cop issue shoes and socks.

[djp2]

190. Shin Guards

what the hell does he have duck taped to his legs? You can see whatever it is on his left leg. It looks like it might be his wallet but it's hard to tell..


Looks like Shin guards, do the police wear them too??

[mcg]

192. Yes and yes, police in riot gear wear shin guards.

see this photo, click on it for a larger picture (takes a while to download)
http://www.cupe.ca/gallery/montebello-monday/Montebello_20_ao_t_049

[The Doctor.]

15. No, Yellow triangle+masks+provocation = LIKELY police agent.

[GliderGuider]

32. The news story specifically says the triangles were on the soles of the boots

The CSA markings "appear on the outer side or the tongue of the right shoe" according to the CSA web site. There would be no purpose to putting CSA markings on the sole where they could not be seen. Conversely, identification markings would be unlikely to be put where they could be seen by casual observers. The fact that the story specifically mentions that the officer was kneeling when the marking was seen strongly implies that it was on the bottom of his boot.

[Kagemusha]

33. Yeah, that makes total sense as a way to keep undercovers out of jail.

Sneaky.

[GliderGuider]

38. Actually, from the still photo it looks like they just forgot to change their boots.

The markings on the soles look more like a manufacturer's logo to me. The boots of the "anarchists" and at least one officer look identical, right down to the the tread patterns. I think they just wore their service boots on duty as a matter of habit. John Le Carré would never hire these clowns.

[deadmessengers]

66. Those don't look like triangles.

Those are pretty clearly ovals to me.

[RaleighNCDUer]

71. Looks that way to me, too, which doesn't change the fact that they

are still identical to the cops' boots.

[deadmessengers]

99. Nope, doesn't change it at all

I agree that it's quite clear that the boots are identical, but calling the symbols triangles just gives the police apologists an opportunity to muddy the waters a little bit.

[GliderGuider]

75. The reference to "triangles" came from a reporter's story

He was probably quoting an eye-witness who caught a quick glimpse of the Vibram logos. This is why they now have instant replay for the referees during football games.

[mcg]

107. They are Vibram yellow plug hexagons

The main point is that the provocateurs and police are wearing the
same boots. As pointed out here http://politics.reddit.com/info/2hj5a/comments
they are the Vibram yellow logo, an example showing a similar boot
from http://www.bootsusa.com/POLICE%20UNIFORMS/EMT-1.htm

[mcg]

183. I meant octagons. nt

[MADem]

63. It's a standard marking, apparently signifying a level of quality

It would have been helpful if someone took the time that you did before making and disseminating that "great leap forward" towards conspiracy. Hey, assholes can buy light work boots, too!



Yellow triangle indicates sole puncture protection with a Grade 2 protective toe to withstand impacts up to 90 Joules. Comparable to a 22.7 kg (50 lb) weight dropped from 0.4 m Sole puncture protection is designed to withstand a force of not less than 1200 Newtons (270 lbs) and resist cracking after being subjected to 1.5 million flexes.

RECOMMENDED USE: For light industrial work environments requiring puncture protection as well as toe protection.

[GliderGuider]

65. That's not the marking that was seen

It turns out it was a yellow rubber "Vibram" logo. The interesting thing is that two of the three of protesters and the one cop whose feret are visible in the still photos are wearing IDENTICAL boots. the other protester is wearing the same make of boot, but a model with a slightly different tread pattern.

These guys were wearing police boots, not just corner-store Doc Martens.

[MADem]

77. Are Vibram boots "police boots?" According to this site, they make all sorts of boots

And the VIBRAM "sole" is apparently fairly ubiquitous on all sorts of boots, from women's motorcycle boots, to logger's boots, to soldier's boots, to hiking boots, to boots for DOGS--not just "police boots"... http://www.nextag.com/boot-vibram/search-html

There's NINETEEN pages of work boots at this web site, ALL with Vibram soles. A few selections from JUST the first page, and subsequent pages have similar products:


Wellco 3 Layer Vibram Tan Desert Boot
US MIL. SPEC. Desert tan hot weather combat boot Made in US 3 Layer soiling system with MIL SPEC Vibram 1276 outsole PU Midsole Drain vents Contour cushion insole



Chippewa Engineer Boots - For Men
CLOSEOUTS . Hand made these Chippewa boots are made of premium water-resistant oiled leather with a Vibram(R) replaceable sole and stitched Goodyear welt.



Black Infantry Combat Waterproof Boot # 6478
Height - 10" Sole Pattern - Vibram Sierra Black Cordura Leather and Sympatex Waterproof Lining Collar - Nylon Webbing Outsole - Rubber Vibram Sierra Design ...


Red Wing Women Black leather Vibram Zipper Logger Motorcycle Biker Boots Red Wing ...
Red Wing's Women's Black leather Vibram Zipper Logger Motorcycle Biker Boots Red Wing's Motorcycle Biker boots are designed for the ride.




Thorogood Boots: Vibram Sole Logger Work Boots 824-6442
Tough work is part of the American tradition and is at the very heart of the American dream.



Red Wing Men 'Harness' Motorcycle Boots - Black
Red Wing Men's 'Harness' Motorcycle Boots - Black



Chippewa Boots: Men Vibram Oil Tanned Motorcycle Boots 97863
Whether you work as a motorcycle tester or just ride in your off time, you must look the part of the professional motorcyclist in these Chippewa 11 Inch Black Vibram Non-Steel ...


Look, I am not saying it's IMPOSSIBLE that these fellows weren't affiliated, I'm just saying that because four people on a train have cell phones or iPods, that doesn't mean they know each other. It would seem to me that sturdy work boots (and these VIBRAM guys are apparently THE sole makers for those things) would be the thing to wear to an event of this nature, and I am not convinced, looking at those pictures, that the upper portion of the boots are necessarily the same. I'm still in Judy Tenuda-land at this stage: It COULD HAPPEN...but I am not sold yet.

[GliderGuider]

82. And with all those boots to choose from

All three protesters just happened to pick identical models to those issued to the Sureté du Québec? Just three young anarchists out for a bit of fun in footware that, purely coincidentally, happens to be standard-issue police kit? Look at the tread patterns, the welts on the boots, the placement of the seams. they are the exact same model.

[ieoeja]

95. They ARE in paramilitary outfits.

Both the provocateurs and the police are wearing paramilitary gear including boots. That increases the likelihood of ending up with the same boots.

Furthermore, if I wanted to purchase body armor or other paramilitary gear here in Chicago, I know exactly where I would go to do so. I would go to one of the stores where they sell the police their gear. I have given rides to two different stores for two different friends. One was a security guard.

The other was -- and I had started writing this message before I even remembered this -- a Libertarian. Making him an anarchist without the rock throwing.

[GliderGuider]

100. Sorry, I don't buy it.

The "Black Block" kids (at least the ones we get around here) just aren't that serious. As my partner pointed out this morning, they wear costumes, while these guys were wearing disguises. There's a difference.

And I have yet to see a self-respecting anarchist who would wear anything but Doc Martens :-)

[MADem]

114. I see that there's to be a press conference, saying that these guys were cops,

but while the soles are the same, I still don't think the uppers are. One guy looks like his are laced, the other looks like boots.

The only motivation I can see for such a thing is the old "Nixon-Chicago" law and order crackdown.

[guruoo]

133. The shoes themselves do look identical

this photo convinced me...



on edit: I used colorzilla to blow up the photo in my browser.
https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/271

[kestrel91316]

142. I agree. I think the three are wearing police dept standard issue

black boots with vibram soles. The guy in jeans obviously doctored his up with green marks and duct tape to make them look different (disguised boots???), but the guy in desert camo pants has IDENTICAL boots to the cop on the right.

[Malidictus Maximus]

138. You can't argue with conspiracy theorists

People who believe in conspiracies can *NEVER* be dissuaded.
I have two different pairs of boots with that logo, one motorcycle, one work.

[GliderGuider]

141. Do your two pairs of boots with that logo look identical?

The logo was just what caught peoples' attention. We have a lot of circumstantial evidence beyond a Vibram logo that supports the hypothesis that they were police officers masquerading as anarchists:

Their boots were identical to police issue.
Their age and size was inconsistent with that of other anarchists at this and other demonstrations.
Their deportment during the confrontation with the union leader.
Their refusal to remove their face masks.
Their refusal to leave the area when asked by the union leader.
One carried a rock up to police lines and was not challenged.
One appeared to engage a police officer in conversation immediately after they were named as police officers.
They pushed through police lines with great ease immediately after they were named as police officers.
The fact that they pushed through the police line at all, rather than just leaving the demonstration peacefully like any citizen could.
There was no sign of a struggle during their "arrest".
There was no reason either given or apparent for the "arrest"
At least one of their masks was not removed during the "arrest" (we don't know about the other two).
They walked off calmly to waiting police vehicles.
The police reported all arrests except these three.

Oh, it's a lot more than just some Vibram logos. These bozos were amateur provocateurs who got "made" and had to be bailed out by their buddies.

[Junkdrawer]

149. Nice Summary....Most times provocateurs succeed...Sometimes they're busted...

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article313848.ece

[SkyIsGrey]

175. Their body language...

Especially the one cop after he was confronted by the man in the suit. A friend of mine pointed out to me once how to spot an police officer even when they're not in uniform. If you look at the guys arms you may think that he's "Pidgeon chesting" but in actuality if you look at where his hands are he's prone, reaching for two weapons that are not there a billy club and a gun.

[Malidictus Maximus]

198. Good summation.

I still think the boots don't mean squat, not even slightly useful as evidence, but the last six or seven points you make are much moe convincing.

[leveymg]

158. The difference between theory and evidence

is legal process.

I'd call this evidence. Admissable evidence, if this goes to court. Which it likely will.

Yes, you can argue that this isn't proof that these guys are police agents provocateur -- that hasn't been determined, yet -- but, you can't say there's no evidence.

"Conspiracy theory" is a pejorative term. It implies the misuse of evidence to proclaim an unsupportable claim to truth. That isn't the case here.

[EVDebs]

172. Denver cops intelligence unit is now well known, and since Dem's '08 convention is in Denver...

It's nice to know who's following you around,

The Denver police Spy Files
http://www.aclu-co.org/news/pressrelease/release_spyfilesatlibrary.htm

""Denver Police Department’s Intelligence Unit had been systematically monitoring and recording the peaceful protest activities of Denver-area residents and keeping files on the expressive activities of law-abiding advocacy organizations, falsely labeling many of them as “criminal extremist.” Mayor Webb subsequently confirmed that the police maintained a computer database that, at the time, contained the names of 3200 individuals and over 200 organizations. After the ACLU filed a class action lawsuit and began depositions and discovery, the City acknowledged the existence of numerous additional hard-copy files that had not been entered into the Intelligence Unit’s database. These hard-copy Spy Files dated back several decades and contained close to 10,000 additional names.""

So the cops don't even need to be physically violent with you, they can screw with you WHENEVER it becomes convenient for their purposes. BTW, what ARE their purposes ?

[Hotler]

180. Notice the cops don't have their kness and full body

weight in the middle of their backs and their heads aren't being held down with a boot.

[EVDebs]

181. Post #93. It's no longer a 'conspiracy'

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/August2007/22/c9193.html and also post #172, now that's a horse of a different color. The Official Conspiracy Theories.

[mcg]

188. These particular soles are on police boots.

see post about '#134AR Technical Lug' and responses

It's not just the logos that are the same, the soles are the same,
the uppers are the same.

[Junkdrawer]

86. It's more than just boots....NO RECORD OF THEIR ARREST....

...

The three do not appear to have been arrested or charged with any offence.

Police confirm that only four protesters were arrested during the summit – two men and two women. All have been charged with obstruction and resisting arrest.

Veteran protester Jaggi Singh, who is helping to circulate the video as widely as possible, said all four of those arrested are known to organizers and are genuine protesters.

"But we see very clearly in that video three (other) men being arrested . . . How do (police) account for these three people being taken in, being arrested? Where did they go?" Singh said.

....

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/248608

[GliderGuider]

88. It would be really funny if someone started a "habeus corpus" fuss over them

Since we have photographic evidence of their arrest, insist that they be produced to ensure that their rights are being protected...:silly:

[Junkdrawer]

90. Oh, I think the protest organizers will make a stink about this...

Betcha DemocracyNow will be all over it...

[Cronus Protagonist]

170. Maybe they are now "terrorists" and are currently in Gitmo

We need to find out where these arrested protestors went, why they were not processed through the normal channels, and we need to get them legal representation at the minimum.

I think an independent inquiry is called for...

[EVDebs]

123. Canada's version of ACLU should sue on 'protester's' behalf and demand more info from their clients

[leveymg]

159. Good point.

Agents provocateur, if they are arrested, often miraculously "escape".

That's a good tell-tale indicator.

[Divine Discontent]

214. you were wrong after all... just saying. n/t

[JohnyCanuck]

6. Here's the link to the Youtube video

of Coles confronting the provocateurs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St1-WTc1kow Notice how when they figure out the jig is up because their plan to start a riot doesn't appear to be working and they've been pointed out to the crowd as being undercover cops, instead of running away from the cops like you would expect of a real anarchist, they force themselves directly into the arms of the waiting riot squad. I also posted the video this evening in the DU political videos forum here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x48559

[McCamy Taylor]

13. Great video

[mcg]

56. Obviously fakes, their outfits, body language, physique,

hair cut, expressions, all shout police plants.
The way they are dressed looks like someone's conception of
what 'violent anarchist' would look like. What's with the
yellow spray color? These two guys are also wearing identical bandanas.

[ieoeja]

109. I will remain cynical. But I agree with most of what you say.

First time the organizer touched the one guy, that guy's initial movements looked to me just like a cop going to restrain and cuff someone. Instead of pulling away or pushing back, it looked like he was going to grab the guy.

Of course, martial arts training would produce the same reaction.

Also as the video poster mentioned, it is hard to imagine them heading TO the cops. Maybe if they were really frightened, but I didn't see any signs of that. The big guy especially seemed to be acting like, "the jig is up; might as well call it a day".

I can not say this is definitively proven. But it sure is suspicious looking.

[Bryan Sacks]

209. ieoeja: what would "definitively proven" be in a case like this?

It's a serious question. Assume there's no video of them getting dressed in their disguises at the police station. What would you accept in a case like this as "definitively proven"?

[leveymg]

161. The bandanas were bought down at the Anarchist's Surplus Store

The Department gets a big discount when it buys in quantity.

[Bryan Sacks]

210. love that top graphic. where's it from n/t?

[Faux pas]

208. Thanks for that, great points! n/t

[JohnyCanuck]

7. Here's another report of the incident.

Agents provocateurs active at Montebello?

SNIP

An amateur video posted on the website Youtube.com, yesterday, and entitled "Stop SPP Protest - Union Leader stops provocateurs" shows a national union president confronted and assaulted by masked men while attempting to keep protestors within boundaries set by authorities. The three men, dressed like "Black Bloc" anarchist protestors, defied Dave Coles, the President of the Communications, Energy and Paperworkers of Canada, who directed them to stay in their designated area. "Take your mask off, brother," and "Put the rock down," Coles said repeatedly. The video shows one of the men, in a ball cap with the word "Spike" on it, hanging onto the bandana over his face and forcefully shoving Coles as he attempted to keep order.

Stuart Trew, of the Council of Canadians, saw the video and spoke with people who were there. "You'll hear them screaming 'Policier, policier!' (police). Eventually Coles looks the guy in the eyes and says 'You're a police officer'."

As Trew said, "They slip behind and start nudging the police line, you can't see if they're saying anything because of their bandanas, the police let them through eventually and take them down to the ground, and appear to arrest them." Trew points out that two agitators had matching bandanas and that there was "a substantial size difference, and what looks likes an age difference" from other anarchist protestors, but admits it is almost impossible to prove they were police officers.

The protest legal aid committee, however, received no report from authorities of their arrests, lending further credence to allegations the two were not genuine protestors. "Yes, these were definitely agent provocateurs, cops, and legal folks have no record of these supposed arrests," said Peoples Global Action (PGA) spokesperson John Hollingsworth at the Indie Media Centre.

SNIP

There were, however, other reports of agents provocateurs among the protestors. Dan Sawyer, a member of PGA, told HarperIndex.ca "Our group did 'out' about three undercovers in the Black Bloc and pushed them back into the police line, and then they walked off."

http://www.harperindex.ca/ViewArticle.cfm?Ref=0082

[suffragette]

22. It sure does look like one of the guys in the video

talks to one of the police for quite awhile, especially around the 1:42 - 2:00 marks of the youtube video.
As the article notes, it's hard to absolutely verify because of the bandanas, but it sure looks like the one in the black cap has a conversation with the police nearest the line before they "break through" and are "arrested."
Good on the protesters for recognizing the situation and handling it so well and for making it public.

[lvx35]

8. Oh my God! You mean black bloc kids are agent provocateurs???

I never imagined! Who would have thought that a group that brings violence and vandalism to so many peaceful protests would be filled with cops!!! :sarcasm:

seriously, kudos on who took that picture.

[Richard Steele]

10. Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was. Same as it ever

There is water at the bottom of the ocean.


Recommended.

[kster]

14. Same as it ever was

Yet a closer examination shows that there's no question that it was the police who abruptly changed tactics and attacked. Nor was it the case of few rogue cops; law enforcement groups acted in concert, breaking all promises made to honor nonviolent civil disobedience. The only questions that remain is whether they intended violence from the beginning, and whether they used agent provocateurs in the crowd to justify their abuse of power.

http://www.monitor.net:16080/monitor/9911a/chicagoseattle.html

[Richard Steele]

16. All in your post = same as it ever was. Machiavelli's "The Prince" + kevlar and submachineguns.

Nothing new under the sun.

[grasswire]

11. and we should be surprised?

Most of us weren't born yesterday. We know some certain things. Protests will be disrupted by provocateurs. People in custody should not board trains or enter showers.

[glitch]

18. Well done. K & R nt

[backscatter712]

20. OK, so I'm new to the scene.

I've heard stories here and there of agents provocateur being used to disrupt protests and such.

This is the first time I've seen undercover cops caught dead to rights being provocateurs.

This makes me incredibly angry. We do indeed live in a fascist world when police put tactics like this on the table.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

24. Certainly saw provocateurs at work in Portland

I hope that activists continue to be wise to them. Fortunately, the ones I saw were so obvious and clumsy that no one was fooled.

[Divine Discontent]

28. that's how these guys seemed

so obvious... few people can "act". lol... don't you love how they broke through a police line despite the police being all geared up and these couple guys with not much force getting behind the line???

SO obvious ===== the people of that town need to march to the police HQ and ask wtf this was done for!

I sent the video to Olbermann, it's worthy of worst person in the world.....

[0007]

55. Those cops need to go to acting school, LOL!!

It was indeed fun to watch the video.

[eridani]

25. Anybody under the age of 30 ought to google COINTELPRO

If you haven't already. We need to be prepared for this shit and learn to counteract it as this very savvy Canadian organizer demonstrated.

[hunter]

84. Yeah, and COINTELPRO discussions are full of the same bad acting and lies.

I prefer to keep it simple. The process is corrupt, and yes, kids, the government does use agent provocateurs, and they do post endless crap on the internet that shows up when you "google COINTELPRO" which will make you sound like a paranoid lunatic to most people should you choose to repeat it.

Once you realize you are dealing with a shallow bunch of moronic ideologues, they are much easier to deal with. Don't play their game. They want you to play poker so they can cheat and bluff. Force them into a game without secrets. In the case of these boot-wearing thugs, look what happened -- they had to fake an arrest to extricate their guys, and they did a rather pathetic job of it.

Checkmate. No, no, I won't play poker with you. You always cheat.

[mogster]

26. You'd wonder how far down this rabbit hole go

Provocateurs with one purpose; to make the demo seem violent and quell free speech. False flag, dressing up as demonstrators.

[Faux pas]

27. I can take you back to1968 Haight-Ashbury.... I was on a

buying (retail, LOL not the good stuff) trip with my boss and a co-worker. We looked like we stepped out of Cosmopolitan and GQ, we stuck out like sore thumbs to say the least. It was a nice, quiet, peaceful day and then the riot squad showed up. As everyone on the sidewalk agape and wondering what the hell was going on, the riot squad started marching up and down the street. There happened to be a hippie sitting on the edge of the street halfway btwn a trash can and a car that was trying to pull out. The head cheese riot squad commander ass walked up to the hippie, grabbed him by the arm and and pushed him face down in the asphalt. Commander ass then grabbed the trash can, emptied it in the middle of the street and proceeded to smash every glass object from the trash with his club. All of us were really shocked now, this was unbelievable. Then from behind us, some crew-cut wearing, conservative looking, new-cia-recruit-types started throwing ricks and bottles at the cops. More marching cops, more missiles flying from the crew cuts, and then the sh*t really came down. The news all over the radio heading back to L.A. was "Hippies Start Huge Riot in The Haight". There is a lot more to this adventure. The point I wanted to make was there have been instigators and provocateurs around long before bush-two ever came on the scene. Ironic note: those were the raygun years in California.

[yardwork]

42. Sounds like the "Brooks Brothers riot" in Florida, election 2000, too

Our gub'mint been using these tactics from day one.

[Faux pas]

59. I guess we've been living under the illusion of freedom for a long

time.

[Blutodog]

113. Delay's aides

That was the Exterminator himself Tom Delay's hand picked rioters. The MSM never outted this phony riot for what it was. We've all paid the price for the utter failer of our so called 4th estate to do its job. Instead as Colbert has pointed out the Press today are for the most part nothing more then a Gov't steno pool.

[rucognizant]

92. ANd I think...........

Poppy was CIA then! Not the head yet!

[Faux pas]

194. I sure wouldn't be surprised! n/t

[formercia]

29. Agents of Repression

http://books.google.com/books?id=WMRRzpCdOzwC&dq=agents+repression

For those wondering how Bill Clinton could pardon white-collar fugitive Marc Rich but not Native American leader Leonard Peltier, important clues can be found in this classic study of the FBI's COINTELPRO (Counterintelligence Program). "Agents of Repression" includes an incisive historical account of the FBI siege of Wounded Knee, and reveals the viciousness of COINTELPRO campaigns targeting the Black Liberation movement. The authors' new introduction examines the legacies of the Panthers and AIM, and shows how the FBI still presents a threat to those committed to fundamental social change.Ward Churchill is author of "From a Native Son," Jim Vander Wall is co-author of "The COINTELPRO Papers: Documents from the FBI's Secret Wars Against Dissent in the United States," with Ward Churchill.


Read this book. It shows the lengths that the boys will go to insert provocateurs into organizations with the intent of provoking violence, unlawful activity and causing internal strife among the members.

It's a technique as old as History.


Don't fall for it. They want violence in order to have an excuse for declaring Martial Law.

[Forkboy]

30. Well dip me in flour and bake me for thirty minutes!

Who would've guessed?

[JTFrog]

31. If they hadn't been cops

they would have been jumped on so fast by the cops just standing there. In fact one of them ran over for protection from the cops with the rocks still in his hand and the cops did nothing. The masked guys were armed with rocks and the cops just watched it for as long as they could. You know these guys are always itching to jump on any reason to take someone down. Well they had all kinds of reason with these guys and tried to ignore it.

What a freakin joke. I'm so glad they were busted and caught on video. More people need to see this.

K&R

[GliderGuider]

34. Busted! Proof positive - pictures of the boots

This is from a photo page of the protest at the CUPE (Canadian Union of Public Employees) website.

What do you know? The police and the "anarchists" seem to be wearing identical boots.

Back in the old days we always knew you could tell the narcs because they wore the wrong shoes. Looks like nothing has changed.

[Canuckistanian]

39. Very interesting

Not only is it the the exact same yellow patch, but also the same tread pattern in all three boots (both "protestors" and the cop).

Not suspicious at all.

[IndianaGreen]

195. You are right, it is the same tread pattern in the cops and "protesters'" boots

Reminds me of that group of Quakers in Michael Moore's Farenheit 911 that were shocked to find in the obituaries the picture of a member of their group who the paper identified as a police officer working in the anti-terrorism unit of the local police department.

In addition to provocateurs, undercover police will identify themselves as journalists in order to collect information from peace demonstrators.

[Buns_of_Fire]

197. Yeah, they gotta watch those Quakers. They're an insidious group, yes they are.

Between them and their crosstown rivals, the Amish, the trail of terror never ends. The Amish, burning rubber in their carriages at all hours of the day and night. The Quakers, accused of many drive-by blessings. What is the world coming to?:scared:

[beevul]

211. Those drive by stern-looks are a killer.

"The Quakers, accused of many drive-by blessings."

Beware the drive by stern-look.

[Judi Lynn]

201. Never heard this until today! How truly dirty. So glad to find it out. n/t

[progressoid]

43. AND HE'S WEARING KNEE PADS!

Like he knew he was going to wrestled to the ground? Hmmm? :shrug:

[mcg]

57. Yup, and padding around the ankles. nt

[mikelgb]

51. what no broken knees?

or is that tactic only for the *real* protesters?

[GliderGuider]

54. Click through the link above to the original photos for an eye-opeing view.

Click on the picture on the CUPE page and you can get it to come up BIG. Look at frames 31 and 32 at full size. There is simply no mistaking who those boots belong to.

[mcg]

64. another suspicious photo

One the the "anarchists" looks to be talking to one of the police.
The guy holding the rock is holding it like it's a prop. The gloves
he's wearing look like protective gloves police would wear. It looks
it me that 'MYLAR' is written on them.
Their body language says they are on the same team as the police.
From http://www.cupe.ca/gallery/montebello-monday/Montebello_20_ao_t_044

[mcg]

73. a bigger picture shows he's wearing Mylec gloves

I think they are gloves for a sport.
Protective gloves to throw a rock? Or because he knew he would be
thrown down to the ground?
click on the photo for a bigger view
http://www.cupe.ca/gallery/montebello-monday/Montebello_20_ao_t_044

[truth2power]

74. Guy's got F.U.C.K. written on his hand. LOL! eom

[mcg]

87. "the police seem blissfully unconcerned"

Some good comments at http://canadiancynic.blogspot.com/

JUST PLAIN CURIOUS: There are a few things about that video that I find more than a little odd. First, despite the fact that one of the provocateurs clearly has a rock in his hand, and numerous protestors are pointing this out in loud voices, the police that are only a few feet away do nothing about this. A masked (and alleged) protestor is wandering around holding a lethal object, and the police seem blissfully unconcerned. Weird, no? As you can see in the video, the police are clearly prepared for violence, given that they're carrying shields, and one can reasonably assume that they came ready for anything, including violent protestors. And yet, with three textbook examples of potential trouble right in front of them (one of them holding a deadly weapon), they appear utterly indifferent. Doesn't that just beat all?

Shortly thereafter, the provocateurs end up next to the police line, and it's clear from the video that the one is still holding the rock! Even as he's standing immediately next to a police officer, he hasn't been told to drop it. How retarded a law enforcement officer do you have to be to allow an allegedly dangerous (and masked) protestor to walk up to you with a rock in his hand, and not ask him to put it down? But it doesn't end there.

Immediately thereafter, the provocateurs quietly push their way through the police line, and are "arrested." But on what possible charges? Until now, the police have been delightfully indifferent to masked protestors wandering around, carrying rocks. It hasn't seemed to bother them so far. Now they decide to arrest them? For what conceivable reason? On what imaginable charge?

And, finally, I find it curious that, as they're being arrested, the police aren't removing their bandannas. You can see clearly in the video that the tallest of the three, as he's leaning against the wall and is then being taken down for the arrest, is allowed to remain masked. It's hard to see what happens after that, and it's annoying that the cameraman didn't follow the procession out to the van to see if the bandannas came off anytime during the march. But one might reasonably ask whether it's standard police procedure to not expose the people you're in the process of arresting, given that it would have been such a trivial thing to do.

[bleever]

103. Middle "anarchist" looks like he's fond of donuts.

How convenient for the photo that he didn't drop the rock when cornered by the police.

[mcg]

110. and the rock looks rather benign, maybe it's a sponge,

or maybe it's padded, it just doesn't look right.
If I wanted to hurt someone I wouldn't throw a rock like that.

[Tempest]

199. See post #48

Your picture is exactly what I was talking about at 2:17 of the video.

[truth2power]

69. Excuse me...what is that thingie duct-taped to the guy's leg?..

Looks like he has duct tape on his other trouser leg, too.


edit> ok. Guess it's a knee pad?? Any protestors you know ever wear knee pads? Geez!

[cui bono]

152. That doesn't actually prove anything except that the soles of the boots are made

by the same manufacturer.

Not that I don't this could or did happen.

[Chemical Bill]

160. I have a pair of boots with that patch.

It says "VIBRAM", which is a company that makes soles for hiking and work boots. The men could be provocateurs, but sorry, the patches on the boot soles mean nothing.

Bill

[bemildred]

36. So much for the "To Protect and Serve" bullshit. nt

[GliderGuider]

37. It's more like "To Incite and Discredit."

I just sent the RCMP a link to the still photo of the incident showing the boots. In the message I suggested they might want to train their provocateurs to change their footwear before going on duty. I wonder if I'll get a response.

[cyberpj]

41. Infiltration is SOP for GOP since the 60s. Not only within protests, but within the opposing party.

You could probably name a few DINOs yourself now, couldn't you?

[GliderGuider]

44. Here's a cropped and sharpened section of the still photo.

Don't ya just love it?

[Tempest]

45. They're the exact same boot

The soles are exact, the length of the sides are exact and they're made out of the same material.

[phantom power]

47. Looks like he spray-pained them? To, like, fool us?

[guruoo]

61. Vibram logo

[MADem]

68. OK, now I'm confused. The story says it's the triangle logo, not that logo

And that's not the tread pattern we are seeing.

[Bryan Sacks]

78. you're not confused, you're unwilling to admit what's plain

same as it ever was.

[MADem]

116. Take that attitude and stifle it, there, pal.

I asked a legitimate question, which, if you READ THE FUCKING STORY in the OP, like I did, said "TRIANGLE" quite plainly, and it turns out that it WASN'T a triangle, it was the VIBRAM logo.

Which is NOT a triangle. Unless you flunked math along with logic.

So get over yourself.

[Bryan Sacks]

125. I will allow that perhaps you were confused earlier in this thread . . .

and apologize if I incorrectly characterized you as not confused, but dishonest. I have no clear evidence of that in this case. By the time I had posted (shortly after you had), I was aware that it was an oval logo and not a triangle.

I trust you will accept that the fact that a VIBRAM logo on both sets of shoes makes the case even stronger for provocation than a generic yellow triangle would, not weaker, yes?

[MADem]

135. Well, I was just seeking information, is all, and I am never a jumper to conclusions.

But once I read the initial post, my curiousity took hold, I read the whole thread, and noted that even the Toronto Star had this story yesterday afternoon. I figured there was some "there" there, but I wasn't ready to join the chorus without hearing a bit more.

I like healthy skeptics. They save us from ideological lockstepping.

That said, this stinks on ice. Still can't figure out the WHY of it, though. Reports are that the protests were pretty lame this time around, so why try to jazz them up with violence unless ...? Do the local police want more funding or something??? Does the national government want to play the law and order game? It would seem to me that a peaceful protest would work to the BENEFIT of the summit participants and organizers, and suggest that there's not as much opposition as violent protests would suggest.

I ask the cui bono question--and can't figure out who gets the bono end of it all, still.

[GliderGuider]

136. Research the MAI

The same people who were against the SPP managed to stop the MAI. The Powers That Be are doing everything possible, from secrecy and misdirection to spin and black ops to make sure the public opposition to this program doesn't gather that same momentum.

Here's an intro to the MAI - what it was, and what happened to it, from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multilateral_Agreement_on_Investment

[MADem]

144. Well, if you're saying that the failure of the MAI had to do with the force of protests,

then that must mean the Quebec Police, inciting riot, want this Three Amigos effort to fail?

The protests fizzled on the second day, per all reports I have seen:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/08/21/summit-day-two.html

It's just not all adding up.

[GliderGuider]

145. My take on it is that they want to short-circuit the protests before they get off the ground.

I think the fact that CBC is reporting a "fizzle" is making a lot of suits very happy right now. The police don't care one way or the other about the SPP, but they are following the orders of some people who care very, very much.

SOME press called the protests weak. There was a lot of ink given over to the lack of participation on the 2nd day. But if you look at all the event planning pages, there were no protests planned for Tuesday. The Lowell Greens of the world (he's a low-rent Ottawa Limabaugh) told protesters to get a job... well, they have jobs and most could only take one day off.

The Star and the CBC did give accurate numbers -- 2000 on Sunday and 1200 on Monday. Harper was quoted, of course. And yes, if only 100 people had shown up it would have been "sad". This was well organized and well attended. No amount of MSM bullshit will take away that truth.

Oh, and to answer cui bono -- it simply didn't work this time for The Powers That Be. The protesters didn't play the game. The agents provocateurs were exposed. The tear gas, pepper spray and rubber bullets didn't fly until the end of the day and still the protesters didn't play the game. Over and over again, the Mahatma Ghandi and Rev. King are proven right - non-violence works.

[MADem]

205. Apparently the latest theory is that the Quebec Police wanted to justify to the national government

the fact that they spent MILLIONS on security, much more than was required for the few thousand protesters that turned up, and they wanted an "easily quelled" riot to justify the expenditure.

That's one assertion, anyway....

[Junkdrawer]

164. I'd say they were the #134AR Technical Lug design...

[mcg]

185. Yes, here's more photos of that sole.

From the same page as the picture on the previous post
http://www.vibram.us/products/products.asp?Product=Fire
Small pictures of boot and sole, the boot looks identical
to the boots the provocateurs and police were wearing.


#134AR Technical Lug
Self cleaning lugs.
Large heel and toe pad for stability and durability.

And from http://www.vibram.us/repair/repair.asp?Product=Composition#
#134AR Technical Lug Sole
Award winning sole and a benchmark of quality for performance sport boots.
Sizes: 8,10,12,14; Dimensions: 24 iron forepart, 54 iron heel; Colors: Black
From popup page http://www.vibram.us/repair/repair_popup.asp?Product=19&style=Composition

[anthill]

81. Better picture

[Subdivisions]

115. I was isolating that too with the high-res image available at

the protestors site:


Umiform cop


Agent 1


Agent 2


SAME SYMBOLAGE AND SAME SOLE TREAD

[mogster]

155. That's very good evidence of foul play

Same model, same type exactly. The provocateurs were given new boots, the cop has used his for a while.

[guruoo]

128. They all appear to have have the same Vibram sole logo, but can you tell if

the shoes themselves are identical?
Are there any other pics available that show the top, and
or sides of the shoes the uniformed cops are wearing?

[Subdivisions]

130. Look at my images above. The boots all have the same

logo AND the same TREAD!

[mcg]

187. Positive id on the soles, compare with another good version of that picture

As Junkdrawer said, the sole type is #134AR Technical Lug Sole
From http://www.vibram.us/repair/repair_popup.asp?Product=19&style=Composition

compare with the shoes

[Tempest]

48. Watch the video, they're obviously cops

I've worked along side law enforcement for more than 10 years.

They carry themselves as police. They're also older (mid 30s), the same age group as the majority of undercover cops. Anarchists are younger.

Also, watch during the 2:17 minute section. One of the masked men is having a personal conversation with one of the riot cops.


On edit:

I sent the video link to several cops I know and asked them if they looked like law enforcement to them.

[otherlander]

189. I think I know *one* anarchist who's over the age of 30.

But he's not the violent kind. He's just an old hippie who thinks that having power over other people inevitably corrupts.

Then there are the highschool ones who think it's all about doing graffitti and trashtalking police, and don't even know who Emma Goldman was. That's what these guys in the video are acting like... and they're way too old for that. Police plants, definitley.

[redqueen]

49. Yes indeed... who'd ever suspect that they're still using the same tired tactics...

and that so many dupes in teeveeland still buy their lies.

*sigh*

[Junkdrawer]

50. NO RECORD OF THEIR ARREST....BUT 4 OTHERS WERE ARRESTED...

...

The three do not appear to have been arrested or charged with any offence.

Police confirm that only four protesters were arrested during the summit – two men and two women. All have been charged with obstruction and resisting arrest.

Veteran protester Jaggi Singh, who is helping to circulate the video as widely as possible, said all four of those arrested are known to organizers and are genuine protesters.

"But we see very clearly in that video three (other) men being arrested . . . How do (police) account for these three people being taken in, being arrested? Where did they go?" Singh said.

....

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/248608

[NuttyFluffers]

182. OMG, they've been Extraoridinarily Renditioned! someone sue for their rights!

someone ignored Habeas Corpus and "disappeared" these people! we must have a lawsuit to launch an inquiry where these people are -- for their SAFETY! they need representation and sunlight in this situation!

:evilgrin:

[drm604]

184. Yes, absolutely!

Surely Canada still has strong Habeus Corpus protections! Were these poor bastards kidnapped by the U.S. and whisked away to some foreign land to be tortured? Canadians have a right to know and should demand an investigation as to what's happened to these individuals. These men have rights!

[Ian_rd]

52. Assuming the take on this event is correct, what is the purpose of such false flag operations?

Why would the police take part in creating such violence? And who would be ordering this activity to take place and why?

I don't doubt this has occurred before, and perhaps in this instance as well. But I never quite figured out why. Police are there to keep the peace. Why would they willfully do the opposite which could put their own in danger?

[GliderGuider]

53. To discredit the protestors, and by extension their cause.

The risk of such violence to the police is low - they are pretty well armed and armoured. The point is to make the protesters seem like irrational, angry, violent types who are not worthy of support.

Who would order it? Well, that's the $64,000 question, isn't it? You can bet there's nothing on paper.

[Ian_rd]

58. What is the police force's incentive to do this?

I know that if Bush's DoJ could do it, they would send out creepy men in black to order police forces to conduct false flag protest operations in order to marginalize protesters as violent anarchists and deal with dissent as best they know how - with harsh response. But for me to believe that's happening requires some evidence.

While at the same time, I see the evidence of this incident and others in the past, and I see what plainly appears to be false flag operations. But I just can't understand how it occurs. If I were a police chief and someone told me to incite a riot at the WTO protest I would tell them to go screw themselves, it wouldn't be in my interest, the interest of the community, or my cops' interest to do such a thing. I can't quite wrap my brain around it even though I'm certain it's happening.

[MADem]

70. And BushCo behind this? Without anyone in Canada, where it occurred, saying, WTF?

I can't figure out the motivation for any local force to 'go along' either. The cops score points for keeping the peace, not having to beat heads. And especially with our neighbor to the north-they seem less inclined to posture like 'bad boys.'

[L.A.dweller]

122. Bush, the President of Mexico Mr. Calderon and

the Prime Minister of Canada are meeting this week in Quebec.

Please do some reading about this North America Union meeting.

http://www.spp.gov/

http://www.latinbusinesschronicle.com/app/article.aspx?id=1554

[MADem]

137. Duh. Please. I understand FULL WELL who was at Montebello, and why.

You are not addressing the issue I am raising, of diplomacy, of statecraft, and who does what, when these visits take place.

When the Canadian government officials visit us, save PERSONAL protection, and the close-in protection, we provide the security. When the Mexicans do, same deal. There's some coordination, but outside a specific perimeter, it's the responsibility of the host nation to take care of the sort of security those protests would require.

When our President travels, there's the same situation--there's perimeter and close-in protection, but the big picture belongs to the HOST nation.

The CANADIANS provided the security up there. NOT the US. Not Mexico, either.

They're saying these guys were LOCAL, Quebec police, not BushCo stooges--that's the accusation. Local lads. Not special forces, not supersecret, specially trained types, just local cops--and one was a bit overweight, from what I saw.

So are you telling us that Bush controls the Quebec police? That would make him one mighty cowboy...I think the answer is simpler--like, maybe, the Quebec police chief wants more funding????

[leveymg]

166. No. This is local, amateur hour TAC squad stuff.

Nothing much seemed to have happened other than the cops did some amateurish role-playing and, embarrassing themselves, bailed-out into the arms of their buddies.

I'm sure they all had a big laugh over beers that night. But, somebody's going to get a subpoena and get hauled into court over this. Stoopid lunkheads.

[MADem]

168. It's coming out now that the cops spent a FORTUNE on security.

The suggestion is that they needed a little dust-up to JUSTIFY all that money spent, so they sent a few fellows out to get something going that they could easily quell. Only problem, the group they were trying to rile were peaceful grandparent-types! They picked the wrong bunch, the fools!!!

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2007/08/22/ot-police-070822.html?ref=rss

He also questioned why other activists have been unable to identify the three men whose images have been broadcast worldwide and demanded to know who the masked men were.

"Do they have any connection to the Quebec police force or the Royal Canadian Mounted Police or are they part of some other security force that was at Montebello?" Coles asked, adding that he wants to know how the Prime Minister's Office was involved in security during the protests.

He suggested that the government might want to provoke violence in order justify its security budget for the summit and discredit protesters.

"They want to defuse our questions ... by trying to make it look like like some radical group trying to create a confrontation," he said.

The RCMP has refused to comment, while Quebec's provincial force has flatly denied that its officers were involved in the incident.

It said it is not releasing any names as no charges were laid.

[defendandprotect]

89. Except that, presumably, they will win favor with people who have power . . . secret power --

Who knows what the rewards are --
these are people seeking power over others -- doing it secretly.
There's power in that.

[Bryan Sacks]

117. I perfectly understand, and long wondered the same thing

If I were a police chief and someone told me to incite a riot at the WTO protest I would tell them to go screw themselves, it wouldn't be in my interest, the interest of the community, or my cops' interest to do such a thing.

Remember, police chiefs are not independent of the political process. They have to answer to people, too. It's not hard to bring a police commissioner around to the idea that he has a civic duty to quell protests. They look bad on TV, the city gets a 'bad name' in other parts of the country, it's seen as "embarrassing" to the mayor and top officials, businesses get antsy, politicians start to get antsy - all of which can bring some serious heat on the police commissioner of a city.

Here's a more abstract answer for state support of agents provocateurs: imagine if people got the idea that they didn't really need a "police force"? That they could do just as well providing protection for their neighborhood from the resources internal to their community, rather than having it outsourced, so to speak?

That wouldn't be a good thing for either the police or those whom they really protect (the powerful and monied). It's far better for those in power to have a centralized police force independent from truly local control, so it can be influenced and manipulated if and when need be.

Provocateurs are just one element of this system that keeps the public in a good bit of anxiety over law and order. The television news does a large part of the work as well, as do public school, as does the predatory aspect of our economic system. Pretty soon, people start to internalize that they're pitted against one another at some level. It gets easier to imagine others would try to harm you or your interests if they could get away with it. Thank goodness for the police.

Yet if you subtracted the major social problems from society, you'd subtract 90% of the need for a police force. People would get along just fine, for the most part. That's a real conflict of interest for government. It cannot truly get serious about fixing social problems without threatening to undo a large part of its own power over people. Of course, it's NOT serious about it any longer (if it ever was, on the federal level), and hasn't been for a long time.

As I see it, it comes down to the fact that the large aspects of social organization, including policing, are no longer up for discussion. The authoritarians have won. You can't have input anymore. That's over - things are "too important now" to even discuss these matters. Citizens are expected to consume and reproduce and take virtually no interest in the way they are governed.

Thus even when we get concrete evidence that events are being manipulated to keep the public bound in fear, nothing comes of it, because most people have lost the ability to imagine a different way. The police use provocateurs, we're shown. Yet the cultural undervoice says, "So what? So the police get a little excessive at times - there's always a few bad apples in the bunch. Basically there good guys, and they protect us from the really bad guys, so what's your beef?"

At that point, most people just shut up. They have a mortgage to pay, or kids to raise. They half-believe the undervoice anyway, so why make waves?

Instead, they resolve never to go to a protest.

[Ian_rd]

132. I don't buy it. There has to be a more real-world reason.

Your first paragraph: Remember, police chiefs are not independent of the political process. They have to answer to people, too. It's not hard to bring a police commissioner around to the idea that he has a civic duty to quell protests. They look bad on TV, the city gets a 'bad name' in other parts of the country, it's seen as "embarrassing" to the mayor and top officials, businesses get antsy, politicians start to get antsy - all of which can bring some serious heat on the police commissioner of a city.

The police look a hell of lot worse when violence breaks out, and business gets a hell of a lot more antsy when storefronts are trashed. I think your proving the opposite here. As far as the rest of what you say, it's general abstract discussion on society and its need for police. Even if there was never a protest again, noone is going to think they no longer need a police force. The police force is not in danger of being seen as obsolete. That's ridiculous.

From that video, it looks like ALL the cops knew these guys were cops too. How do they pull this off? I'm talking in practical real-world terms. How do they do this? Who tells them to do it and for what practical goal?

[Bryan Sacks]

146. I don't see it that way

The police look a hell of lot worse when violence breaks out, and business gets a hell of a lot more antsy when storefronts are trashed. I think your proving the opposite here.

Your slipping into straw man territory. In the case of the typical provocation, some rocks are thrown, some barriers are tossed and perhaps some property is damaged. Minor chaos ensues. Maybe some tear gas is used. Afterwards, the police chief (or other authority) speaks to a reporter on TV and praises the police for their restraint amid all the chaos. The protestors don't get to give their take on things on network TV, at least, not in the authorized and careful way the police do. They're left to post information on the internet.

The message viewers are left with is: the police just want peace and quiet, and it's the protestors that want trouble. If you were in Philadelphia during the 2000 republican convention, you would have seen this again and again. You also would have seen protestors locked up for weeks and months with no good cause, and no real public outcry.

Even when violence gets more out of hand, what big business get "ansty" when storefronts are trashed? They're insured for the damage, and they get a good return on the violence in the form of greater police presence and protection the next time.

Two caveats: I'm not saying that provocateurs aren't the only ones who do damage, of course. Some see property violence as a legitimate forms of protest. I think they're wrong. Ultimately that helps the state.

And I understand that people are not near thinking they don't need a police force. Fact is, however, they DON'T need one. Certainly not in the way they HAVE one. There does not need to be a danger of seeing the police as obsolete for there to be false flag-type provocateuring. As I said, it's part of the larger system of making people docile, about which a ton of good stuff has been written.

[Cronus Protagonist]

171. Here's your practical goal - suppression of dissent

These guys are there to freak out the protesters and to quell dissent. Mom and Pop won't hang around with their kids to protest if these guys are there looking threatening. The least ardent protesters leave and never show up again for fear of getting involved in a violent anarchistic confrontation.

When the press photographs these pantomimes, the media disseminates the images and future demonstration volume and frequency are cut back because people won't want to be identified with these people. This is doubly demonstrated in that the organizers of this demonstration weren't having any of it. They saw that they would be marginalized and their protest would be hijacked by these people and they stood up to them so that the peaceful demonstration could be made effectively. In this case, the demonstrators won, but look at the pictures and ask yourself how many people will show up at the next demonstration knowing they might be associated with these nutcases?

It's standard ops, psychological suppression tactics. The people that think of these operations are smart and they know what they are doing. The cops themselves, heck, what do they know? All they know is they're told to do it and it's going to be fun.

And I can tell these guys are cops just by the way they were taken down. If these were real anarchists, the cops would have one person on the legs, one on each arm, one kneeling on the neck and another cuffing them. Look at the "protesters" legs in the pics - completely free and unbound. No way that would happen unless the cops knew they were not a threat.

Besides, they acted like cops too - cowering together with the cops to get away from the leader of the demonstration who was pulling at their masks. Real anarchists would have pulled away from the unmasker, but at the same time as far away from the cops' batons as possible.

[tekisui]

134. The cops turned to force. tear gas and rubber bullets.

the next days protest hardly had any people. everyone had been scared away by the use of force.

[NashVegas]

207. Gathering Contacts, Intel

The primary purpose of the police is to keep order; not to keep bad guys off the street, but to keep order.

Activists thrive by disrupting business as usual. One needn't be a proponent of violence to wind up on no-fly lists.

Rent "Steal This Movie" from Netflix sometime.

[followthemoney]

62. Why do these people hate democracy?

[EVDebs]

67. EarthFirst, Judi Bari and the AZ provacateurs. This is standard operating procedure FBI/DOJ

http://www.afn.org/~iguana/archives/1997_04/19970411.html

Which is why lawsuits and FOIA are important. Also jury trials.

[MADem]

79. This happened in CANADA. nt

[GliderGuider]

83. Remember who our Prime Minister is, please.

The police do not serve and protect you and me, except perhaps incidentally. They take orders from their bosses, who take orders from their bosses. If you go far enough up the chain of command you will find yourself sitting in corporate board rooms and cabinet rooms rather than squad rooms.

The same powerful corporate interests run Canada as run the USA, and the most senior ranks of the police forces are either selected from their number or are approved by them, and are thus beholden to them. No orders need be given at the very top, just a nod and a wink. The orders get more specific as they trickle down to the front line officers, but you can bet your next dividend cheque that nothing is ever put on paper.

Canada is no different in this regard than the USA, regardless of our international mythology.

[defendandprotect]

91. Do Canadians support the results of their elections-- ????

[GliderGuider]

94. I'm not sure what that means.

We support who we support, and accept the results of elections with whatever grace we can muster, depending on if our ox got gored or not. We trust our electoral system, with its hand-marked, hand-counted ballots and a fiercely non-partisan federal election administration/oversight department.

As he reveals his true colours, Harper is losing support among those who voted for him. Harper's party is going along for the slide as well.

[defendandprotect]

177. Let's try my question again ---

Are you satisfied with the choices of candidates you have -- ????
We rarely are --

Are you satisfied that you have honest elections --- ???
We certainly aren't --

[MADem]

105. That's my point---he's an ASSHOLE. No offense, but he is.

I don't think he'd roll over for a cowboy who he thinks is stupider than he is.

He'd come off better if he could host a party without any pesky bullshit, like those clods down south have, with their gun violence and so forth.

The logic escapes me. What's the point in fomenting discontent? Far better to produce the illusion that in Canada, Law And Order rule the day, people are more polite, and "we" don't have any of that pesky crap you morons down south deal with.

[GliderGuider]

108. Of course he is. No offense taken.

But "Steve" and W are both rolling over for the same masters.

The reason for fomenting trouble is that the anti-SPP movement is gaining legitimacy up here, and that scares the shit out of "them" (the real "them", not the Harper/Bush "them"). They remember what happened to the MAI, and they do NOT want to see that happen again. They hate the very idea of being thwarted.

On edit: Stevie and The Shrub know that allowing their masters' wishes to be thwarted by the little people is emphatically ungood for their careers. they don't need to be told this, they know it in their marrow. As a result they will do whatever it takes.

[MADem]

111. Which masters? If anything, they swagger like they own the road.

I just don't buy it. I look at the corporate-political union as a marriage of convenience, not a senior-subordinate relationship.

I honestly don't think the rank and file of interested voters, here or there, would be motivated to vote for people who cheer on anarchists, rock throwers and assholes. I think that sort of business is a wash, at best, and at worst, benefits the right (see Nixon's victory and the Chicago convention).

I think people on both sides of the border are ready for some 'hearts and flowers' and better education, health care, and social programs, but I just don't see how the rock throwing gets them there. I pull the string, and get nothing but a loose string. It doesn't motivate me, and it doesn't motivate most voters, IMO.

[GliderGuider]

120. You may look on that union however you wish

But many of us have moved past believing that our ballots matter all that much when it comes to the conduct of the nation's business (no matter which nation is under discussion). When was the last time you saw a democratically elected government with an anti-corporatist agenda? The only people the Conrad Blacks of the world worry about are prosecutors, and with their purchasing power they don't even have to face them unless they really overstep.

[yardwork]

156. I think that that is why the government sends "rock throwing" provocateurs

Most protesters are non-violent. They believe in non-violence. They're usually protesting violence. There are always a handful in every group who cause trouble. Some of them are misguided, thoughtless, foolish. Others are deliberate plants, sent to make "the left" look bad.

[Ravachol]

162. To undermine the movement's credibility...

Yup.

A handful of "violent" protesters show up. Some are planted provocateurs. Some aren't. Some have very good reasons and are well thought, others are simply primitivists or the good ol' "Fuck the police! *Throws rock*".

Still, there is people on the far left/anti-authoritarian end of the political specter that really think using violence against the State is a case of self-defense, if anything. Don't be too quick to judge the motivations and intelligence of said protesters. I am not deluded but think using a plurality of tactics, in any struggle, is a good idea. There comes a time when you're thinking: "well, if this fails, then what?". What if we have tried staying pacific and the media doesn't cover our protests (my experience is that they don't or rarely cover peaceful protests/marches and, when they do, it's only to mention that no violence occured or some other bullshit like that)? What happens after we have tried everything in the limits of the Law and we simply end up getting pepper sprayed/tear gassed everytime? There comes a time when more direct/frontal actions are necessary. That time doesn't come at the same moment for everyone. When will it be the correct time to resist? When Bush has unlimited powers? After he declares martial law? Just a couple questions 'cause, as a canadian, I'm about as concerned as you americans are about Bush and its coup.

Note: After talking to a few friends who were there during the confrontation (I was at the Montebello protest but missed the outing, it seems, that happened in the "Green Zone"), they're all pretty convinced the two guys were undercover cops and it was the general feeling.

[MADem]

167. See my post just below--that's what it's looking like, your assertion. NT

[MADem]

165. A more recent report gave TWO reasons for the action by these guys

The first motive was to justify the millions spent on security, to give the police a little 'action' that they could easily quell.

The second speculated reason was a Harper-originated one, to paint the protesters as violent radicals and thus push their agenda and concerns OFF the mainstream discussion table. http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2007/08/22/ot-police-070822.html?ref=rss

He also questioned why other activists have been unable to identify the three men whose images have been broadcast worldwide and demanded to know who the masked men were.

"Do they have any connection to the Quebec police force or the Royal Canadian Mounted Police or are they part of some other security force that was at Montebello?" Coles asked, adding that he wants to know how the Prime Minister's Office was involved in security during the protests.

He suggested that the government might want to provoke violence in order justify its security budget for the summit and discredit protesters.

"They want to defuse our questions ... by trying to make it look like like some radical group trying to create a confrontation," he said.

The RCMP has refused to comment, while Quebec's provincial force has flatly denied that its officers were involved in the incident.

It said it is not releasing any names as no charges were laid....

They'll need to do some digging to get the NAMES of those fellows.

[EVDebs]

97. Read Body of Secrets and Puzzle Palace by James Bamford

All English speaking countries are members of a joint intelligence treaty and cooperate on eachother's matters. Sorry to burst any bubbles you may have about 'sovereignty' matters in regard to this repression of dissent.

The UKUSA Agreement as it is commonly called,

http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/pro-freedom.co.uk/silent_partners.html

Also, re ESCHELON

http://cryptome.org/sigint-hr-dc.htm

[MADem]

101. The suggestion is that the Canadians are subordinate to our wishes, and I don't buy that

Especially with the PRESENT government up that way.

[EVDebs]

104. All I can say is read more on the subject. No offense meant.

The Vreeland case concerning 9-11 in Canadian courts is something you probably haven't heard about

http://www.copvcia.com/free/ww3/01_25_02_revised_012802_vreeland.html

[GliderGuider]

106. Not subordinate

Our ruling class is identical to yours. At that level sovereignty is regarded as a convenient illusion and a legitimizing prop for power. Politics and nationality simply do not enter into their equations.

[conspirator]

80. The 1st role of the police is to protect the RICH. I dont respect anyone who joins the police

Dont come with the crap that there are good cops. They are good as long as you are a passive and blind follower the laws that make the rich richer and the poor poorer.

[GeniusLib]

85. What kind of procedure does the Canadian government have in place to investigate this?

In America the federal Justice Department runs investigations of local police misconduct, is there a similar system in place in Canada?

[mcg]

93. News advisory - News conference on "arrest" of phony demonstrators

News advisory - News conference on "arrest" of phony demonstrators

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/August2007/22/c9193.html

OTTAWA, Aug. 22 /CNW Telbec/ - Video footage of the arrest of police
officers posing as demonstrators at Montebello, August 20, will be shown today
at a news conference at the offices of the Communications, Energy and
Paperworkers Union of Canada. "We have proof that the three individuals who
were "arrested" after being exposed as "agents provocateurs" were, in fact,
members of the Quebec police force," says CEP President Dave Coles, and we
plan to do what it takes to bring this matter to justice." CEP
Secretary-Treasurer Gaétan Ménard, Barb Byers of the CLC and Council of
Canadians President Maude Barlow will also be in attendance.
<<
WHERE: 301 Laurier Ave. West, 2nd floor
WHEN: 1:00 pm, August 22, 2007
>>
For further information: Michelle Walsh, [phone], ext. 222

[GliderGuider]

96. Yeeee Haaaaw!

Pin those squirming sonsabitches to the wall! God I love unions.

[MADem]

112. So this was a Nixon-Chicago thing? nt

[EVDebs]

119. More like Clinton-Seattle thing

Y2K rehearsal? Marauding WTO protesters are Cops as Agent Provocateurs in Seattle
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001uWD

"Its interesting to note that none of these "Masked Marauders" were ever arrested, even though they were easily identifiable and there were hundreds of police on the scene. Simply incredible.

-- thinkIcan December 02, 1999."

[MADem]

121. Well, that didn't stick too well. The Chicago thing had more glue in it.

Nixon rode the Law and Order Pony through two elections.

[EVDebs]

124. Looks like * is trying the same tactic a la Rove don't you think ? 'Terra, Terra' eom

[L.A.dweller]

102. It's so obvious

I could tell they were undercover cops in the first 30 seconds
of viewing the video AND without the audio on!

The fake anarchists are making their way to the safety of their pals.

I recall the 2000 Democratic National Convention at the Los Angeles
Convention Center. Rage Against the Machine had a free concert adjacent to
the Convention Center. Everyone there was calm (as calm as you can be at a RATM
concert)and enjoying the show.

When the show was over and the riot police ordered everyone to leave
that's when the guys with bandanas showed up out of no where to provoke
the police.

People disbanded like they were told but when they were walking in the streets
to get to their vehicles the riot police opened fire with rubber bullets
and injured innocent bystandards. Apparently because a couple of guys
threw rocks at them

[IronLionZion]

126. Does anyone have a link to the youtube video?

I'm not sure what to search for.

I found this of the union leader talking to bandanna-wearing protestors.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St1-WTc1kow

[Subdivisions]

127. Here ya go...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=St1-WTc1kow

[Caoimhe]

139. I just watched the video of the union leader trying to dispel the situation

and isn't it curious that once people start trying to pull off their bandanas, they are accepted into the arms of the police, who Do NOT pull off their disguises, but seem to PROTECT them from having it done? Never seen police treat any protestor that way.

[sasquatch]

140. Find out who they are, and place there home addresses on the internet

[GliderGuider]

147. No way, bud.

Up here we follow the rule of law.
I will personally stand in the path of ANY vigilante taint that tries to leak up into my country.

We still have due process and respect for what Canada stands for. These people will be discovered, discredited and shamed within the law.

We got rid of Zaccardelli and O'Connor. And we'll find these guys and get rid of them, too.

[sasquatch]

179. Well you have better than we have it, our cops our tried by corrupt politicians

that are afraid they'll be viewed as "Soft on crime" or their equally corrupt opponets in the next coming capaign will paint them as such so they overlook police brutality, corruption, and unlawfulness. So we have to take matters into our own hands in the US.

[MCPetruk]

143. Agent Provocateurs on YOUTUBE - from Indonesia

I made a documentary on student protestors who got shot in 1998 during anti suharto riots. The cops used agents then as well - see for yourself on the video...
MCpetruk
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GkM2-kVMM8>

[Judi Lynn]

196. Thanks for posting this video. Very helpful.

Welcome to D.U. :hi: :hi: :hi:

[mogster]

148. Any blood traces or damages on the people mentioned?

Police usually aren't that careful when it's not their own people.

Here's a famous photo from the streets of Oslo, from the 80's:

[rateyes]

150. Here's the Youtube link:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=St1-WTc1kow

[BornagainDUer]

163. You would not believe what I am finding in researching the history of such

things. All the way back to the Pullman strike of the late 1800's cops disguised as anarchists and terrorists. An endless litany of this shit.
Then we have Cointelpro and Operation Chaos in the 60's and 70's; this is a favorite tactic of the perception managers.

[EVDebs]

173. Infiltrating the Mollie Maguires. Hey, it's almost Labor Day, see Matewan

John Sayle's excellent film, which relates to a miners strike that coal operators, hiring the agency that did the deed in the infamous Ludlow Massacre, tried to break in Matewan WV in the 1920's. A great little flick starring Chris Cooper Will Oldham David Strathairn and Mary McDonnell.

[BornagainDUer]

202. Debs was jailed in WWI for "treason"/protesting the war.

I'm gonna check out Matewan.

The history of this stuff needs to be put into a documentary.

[EVDebs]

204. Esp. the tie-in to the Ludlow Massacre. Loved Matewan, should be required DU viewing

come Labor Day. Hope you see it ; it's rentable from netflix etc.

[scarab person]

174. Of Course They Are Police Officers!

Take a look at the way they hold themselves and how they walk. Police officers have a special way of holding their elbows out when they walk, as they usually have to carry bulky equipment on their belts. Their elbows are held away from their bodies to clear their gear. This becomes a habit if they regularly wear a gun belt. Take a close look at the dark-haired man near the beginning of the video - he clearly has the "cop walk".

[Omaha Steve]

176. Cookies...

People eating cookies in Fahrenheit-911 were watched by a deputy. Good story.

[EVDebs]

191. Scared the heck outta me. Computer 'cookies' NSA etc. eom

[djp2]

193. Riots usually in the dark, no good photo ability

At around 7:35 p.m., nearly an hour into the event, police swept into the area to shut down the concert and attack those present. Police officials later claimed that “anarchists” in the audience had thrown glass, concrete chunks and plastic bottles filled with “noxious agents” at them.

However protesters, civil liberties attorneys and other spectators rejected police claims. “There were a couple of dozen young people throwing rocks, bottles in the direction of the Staples Center,” said James Lafferty, director of the National Lawyers Guild, who himself was struck twice by rubber bullets. “They could simply have taken care of them. But they made no effort to do that. Without notice, they shut off the electricity and then took the stage and said you have 15 minutes to disperse.”

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/aug2000/la-a17.shtml

Do you notice these riots are usually at night? Look at the LA Democratic Convention riots.
This one was different in that it was in broad daylight. This allowed the Independent Press to get incriminating photos of the provocateurs.They will probably learn from this lesson....

[BrokenBeyondRepair]

200. kick

[kitty1]

203. According to CBC news, there will be no disclosure on the"agents"...

whereabouts for security reasons. How convenient is that.
If they were legit protesters, they would have been taken into custody and we would have heard about it.

[jpgray]

206. Why are people going so far to claim this isn't significant circumstantial evidence?

Look here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2962268&mesg_id=2963027

How can you claim that this isn't a bit odd? The same tread pattern, the same logo mark--the police gear is likely standardized, but since when do "anarchists" synchronize footwear? :D Is it -more- likely that both "anarchists" just happened to buy the exact same boots that the police officers wear and wore them that day? I find that hard to believe.

[Greyskye]

212. Catch 22 for the cops

I'm going to repeat my post from one of the other threads on this topic:

"In no time did the police of the Sûreté du Québec act as instigators or commit criminal acts," the news release states in French.

Remember the 'shoe' photos, that showed a protester being restrained by the Canadian cops - and they ALL had on identical, very unique shoes? If this indeed was one of the faux protesters, and they did not "commit criminal acts", then WHY WERE THEY BEING ARRESTED?

They are screwn no matter which way they try to jump. False arrest and detainment if the faux protesters did nothing. Instigating violence or committing criminal acts if they did. Catch 22, dudes.

[bemildred]

213. Good point. nt

[frankf]

216. They are also carrying gas masks

That look the same as the police - green rubbery ones.

[GliderGuider]

218. Many "real" anarchists carry gas masks

The kids usually buy surplus store cheapies, though. For comparison here are photos I took at the G20 demonstrations in Ottawa a few years ago:





Oh, and this is what a "real" takedown looks like:

[robertmadsen]

219. Update: Police admit truth and make 2 new lies. Call them youself

On Monday police in Candada were caught trying to start a riot. On Thursday PM they admitted their presence but added new lies to the story. This is an update. Police say a new and final statement will be released at 3PM PST. Call them and ask your own questions. French speaking abilities would help.

For a summary of the original story click the link below.
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2007/08/363929.shtml
Evidence suggests undercover police create violence at peaceful protests

Update!!!
At 1:15PM PST on 8/24/07 I called the Canadian police 514-598-4848 Communications center, Montreal. I asked them to comment on their false statement that police officers were asked to throw rocks by the real protesters. Joyce Kemp said no further questions or comments.

She said their final statement would be up by 3PM PST on
http://surete.qc.ca

The current statement mentions that the officers were asked and "refused to launch" the rock(s) they were holding. Video clearly shows they were asked to put down the rocks. If you should not throw rocks in a glass house, it is a good idea not to pick up rocks in the first place.

Current statement as of 1:38PM PST
http://surete.qc.ca/accueil/communiques/2007/20070823_02.html

Translated using google,com:
=============================
The Safety of Quebec specifies certain facts concerning
Summit of Montebello August 23, 2007

Following the diffusion of a video extract on the site Internet Youtube.com, possibly implying members of the Safety of Quebec at the time of the Summit of Montebello, the latter would like to bring some specified. After having analyzed its contents, in addition to to take note of the vidéos recorded by police bodies, it are now in measurement of
to confirm that these individuals are police officers of Safety from Quebec. The latter had the mandate to locate and to identify the nonpeaceful demonstrators for thus to avoid the overflows. The police officers were located by demonstrators at the time when they refused to launch projectiles.

In any time, the police officers of the Safety of Quebec have acted like provocative or made agents acts criminals. Moreover, it is not in the policies of service of police force nor in its strategies to act of this manner. Constantly, they answered their mandate of
to maintain the order and the sécur.

[redqueen]

220. Police admit agents posed as protesters; One carries large rock to protest.

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/249429



so so SO very shocked

:sarcasm: