World's biggest solar farm planned for New Mexico

[UpInArms]

http://today.reuters.com/misc/PrinterFriendlyPopup.aspx?type=bondsNews&storyID=uri:2006-04-26T221735Z_01_N26260444_RTRIDST_0_UTILITIES-SOLAR-NEWMEXICO.XML

LOS ANGELES, April 26 (Reuters) - Two start-up companies and New Mexico plan a $1.6 billion solar power farm that would be 30 times the size of the world's biggest one now, with enough power for 240,000 homes.

They also plan a factory to make photovoltaic panels for the farm, near the Mexican border in New Mexico, developers said on Wednesday.

Once the panels are spread out over 3,200 acres near Deming, New Mexico, they will be able to generate about 300 megawatts of electricity while the sun shines, said lead developer Ed Balch of New Solar Ventures, a private company.

<snip>

"If this is built, it would be the biggest solar farm in the United States by an order of 60," said Noah Kaye, spokesman for the Washingon-based Solar Energy Industries Association.

The biggest solar farm using photovoltaic panels like the ones to be used in the proposed farm near Deming, New Mexico is in Springerville, Arizona and can make 5 megawatts of electricity, Kaye said.

...more...

:thumbsup:

[Warpy]

1. Architecture here is mostly "pueblo style," meaning

stucco or adobe houses with flat roofs. This whole state could eventually be turned into a solar farm!.

In the meantime, we also have an active wind energy program going on here, too.

I love to see renewable energy becoming economical. High gas and oil prices aint all bad. The transition will stink, though.

[LaurenG]

2. Really nice!

I am fascinated by the power of the sun.

[jpak]

3. USA ...#1 in the Sun

:)

[lfairban]

4. Make electricity while the sun shines.

What a neat idea.

It will be no doubt part of an electrical grid that also uses hydroelectric and perhaps fossil fuels. The best part is that it will provide extra power during peak usage hours when many people are running their air conditioners.

[eppur_se_muova]

5. Gosh! Didn't one of the candidates in our last "election" suggest that?K&R

[TexasLawyer]

6. Love it!

Build these! Don't build more nuclear plants!

[ozone_man]

7. 300 mega watts!

A megawatt can power about 800 homes. Roughly 1.2KW per home. That means 240,000 homes powered by solar electric. This is a giant step in the alternative energy area.

[NickB79]

12. "While the sun shines"

So, if the sun shines 12 hrs a day on average, the actual output is only 150 MW. Storage is still a big problem for solar power, as it is with wind power.

[Nevernose]

13. Not as much a problem in the desert, though

The energy usage peaks during the daytime, and peaks hard, due to air conditioners -- the only things that make some areas really livable for most people.

They're planning a smaller solar farm just outside Las Vegas, NV, just to compensate for daytime AC usage, when the town suffers from "rolling brown-outs" daily. The investors figure that, due to the high price of oil, solar will finally be cost competitive.

[AuntiBush]

8. Why Can't they do this all over the country?

Would save billions, if not trillions and a whole lot of lives.

[frankenforpres]

9. not enough sunshine nt

[kestrel91316]

17. Studies have shown that there is almost noplace in the US that DOESN'T

get enough sun to justify the use of solar PV. Especially with the use of trackers. You DON'T need full sun.

Rainy days with heavy clouds are about the only time you can't generate solar power.

[OKIsItJustMe]

57. Even on rainy days (with the right technology)

Watch segment 3:
http://www.pbs.org/saf/1506/video/watchonline.htm

[maseman]

26. I live in NE Ohio

My house would only have electricity about one week out of the year with solar.

[tabasco]

10. Yayyy New Mexico!!!

A great State! (how did Bush steal it??)

I will always consider NM my second home.

Endless high plains perfect for solar farms. What took so long?

[corporate_mike]

11. Awesome!

[Nevernose]

14. It's one of the "good" things to come from $100 a barrel oil

Solar will be cost efficient compared to gasoline, and once mass production is started in earnest, solar will be dirt cheap.

[amandabeech]

39. Solar will only replace gasoline and other petroleum products

if we increase the need for daytime electric transportation.

Here in the U.S., we use very, very little petroleum to generate electricity. Only some backup and peaker diesel generators are still around.

However, we might replace considerable natural gas peaking capacity, leaving more for home and business heating, chemical manufacture and process heat.

[OKIsItJustMe]

58. If it's used to generate Hydrogen

Watch segments 1&3:
http://www.pbs.org/saf/1506/video/watchonline.htm

[amandabeech]

62. Sorry, I have dial-up, but

I've studied the hydrogen issue at length, and have very serious doubts about its usefulness as a substitute for gasoline and diesel generally in transportation due to EROEI problems and infrastructure, particularly the transportation and storage of hydrogen. In addition, I have never seen the proponents of the use of renewables to produce hydrogen satisfactorily link the availability of renewable energy in the form of solar or wind with the availability of a hydrogen resource like water. Is that information contained in the streaming video that you recommend?

[truthisfreedom]

15. 1.6 billion dollars, 240,000 homes. let's do the math... $6666 each.

i say build it yourself... put it on your own roof if you can. decentralize, get off the grid, and stop paying big companies to do it for you. we've all got large appliances in our homes... why not put in just one more large appliance? if we can get off the grid, we can operate independently and not be affected by lightning strikes and have huge ugly overhead lines everywhere. big energy wants to own a piece of us forever! i pay over $3000 per year for electricity... in just 6 years i could have paid off the complete installation of a solar panel system including storage in my home, and i'd save $42,000 over 20 years by my calculations. plus, my power wouldn't have gone out 8 times over the last 5 years, once for more than 8 hours.

[corporate_mike]

37. How much does it cost to maintain on an annual basis?

[BrightKnight]

47. $6,666 / 20 years = $333 per year ( $28 per month)

I think that most people would be happy with a $28 electricity bill.

---------

The average life of a solar panel is about 20 years.

It is a very simple solid state device. Not much to maintain.

[Bushies gotta go]

50. You don't go off the grid

When you have a solar home and you are in an area with regular electric, just because you have solar doesn't mean you eliminate the electric company. You actually stay on the grid and whatever you don't use, they buy from you. On the same token, when you need it, such as several cloudy days or if you don't have storage capbility for overnight electricity, you buy from them.

Still a darn good deal but you do remain on the grid.

[alfredo]

16. How about solar towers?

http://www.wentworth.nsw.gov.au/solartower/
How it works: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Solar_Tower




Some like the one pictured above use convection to turn turbines.

The tower below uses mirrors.


http://www-stud.fht-esslingen.de/projects/alt_energy/sol_thermal/powertower.html

[kestrel91316]

18. These are ALSO a good idea. We need to get away from the idea that

a hodgepodge of energy sources is undesirable. By diversifying our power sources, we ensure stability and redundancy in the system.

Everybody seems to have forgotten the old adage: Don't put all youe eggs in one basket.

[alfredo]

19. Seems like those towers could be scaled down for

smaller communities.

I think the raped land from mountaintop removal should be used for wind farms.

[kestrel91316]

23. Wind farms, and with pasture cover they could graze it, too.

That land CAN be rehabbed. It's just expensive, but IMHO the mine companies should foot 100% of the bill.

[alfredo]

24. As long as republicans control the state and federal governments,

they won't have to. The ground there might look green from the air, but that is just an illusion. There is no real topsoil to support much of anything. The state government want them for industrial parks. Asphalt grows well there once the ground settles.


I just noticed our city has the highest average wind speed of the three Kentucky cities* listed at the gov site. I'm wondering what the average wind speed would be in the mountains in eastern Ky.

Louisville
Jackson
Lexington.

[westcoastbias]

20. For about the cost of the IRAQ War

For about the total cost of the IRAQ WAR, which is expected to run 1 trillion dollars, you could build solar farms totalling 1/3 the size of Vermont that would generate enough peak power for 150,000,000 homes. I guess you could only depend on half of that, and hopefully, much of that would be installed on top of commercial buildings, instead of beautiful desert area. But, do we really need to be waiting on the price of solar to drop?

[IronLionZion]

21. Not fair, Exxon doesn't own the sun!

yep, I'd like to see more solar panels and windmills go up across America, even in my backyard. It's beautiful.

[Jose Diablo]

22. Yes, build it and more

Massive solar collectors in NM, AZ and connect them to a low loss transmission system. Use the excess electricity during peak sun to pump water from the Gulf of California and refill the "Ancient Lake" with ocean water. Discharge this water in the other direction and turn the pumps into generators to provide electricity when the sun is down or it's cloudy.

Solar generators, low loss transmission and a gravity energy storage system is the key to get us past the peak oil energy crisis.

A new energy system thats globally sustainable. We don't have to make war to preserve our way of life. There are alternatives, peaceful alternatives.

This should be a government undertaking though, to remove the corporate profit from the economics of the project.

[hedgehog]

30. Or use it to split water into hydrogen & oxygen to fuel cars!

[mccoyn]

41. There is a pumped storage in MI

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=ludington+reservoir&btnG=Search

The down side is that the reservoir is shallower than the lake, so it heats up much faster. The heated water disrupts the ecosystem in the discharge area.

[skids]

25. Misapplication of PV...

...on a project this big, they should be doing concentration at least, if not solar thermal. PV is best for small installs.

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/060420/20060420006128.html?.v=1

[ozone_man]

27. Solar PV allows for distributed applications.

I suspect that a large centralized installation may exceed cost due to infrastructure. A distributed system may actually be cheaper, if structures are simple. Don't know. I'm sure they did some studies ahead of time.

One day we'll probaby have solar shingles on the roof. Also, solar photovoltaic is converted directly to electricity. The more installations like this, the more R&D will happen to bring cost down and efficiency up.

[skids]

29. Don't think so.

The 1MW solar trough system they just turned up came in at $6.10/W on a brand spanking new product, small (relatively speaking) installation. When they do their 64MW system, they'll easily whip the ass of the $5.33/W that this proposal suggests.

Massive installations like this will not bring down prices, they will bring them up, because Si-based solar PV is currently a sellers market. (Though the argument is probably mute -- these folks are just floating a PR trial baloon and when push comes to shove, they won't be able to get a contract to procure the raw materials.) In fact, I could easily see large energy companies thinking to themselves "let's buy a lot of panels so we'll own them and individual homeowners won't buy in due to price" though I doubt that's the case here.

A large project like this could bring down prices if they were to buy into a more advanced technology that promises cheaper costs down the line -- because the fact is we don't need R&D. We've already done the R&D. There are literally hundreds of reduced-cost solar products that are past the R&D stage and languishing in small startups without a mass production scale-up plan.

These guys are just proposing to put up normal run of the mill Si panels from a market that is already scaled, and having problems with their Si supply. No technical advance to be had here. I would have no problem with them using PV if they'd just bother to give the contract to a company that makes concentrators, or build a CIGS facility with one of the 5 CIGS companies, or even string ribbon via EverGreen, but there's no indication that that is the case.

As far as solar shingles, they already exist from several vendors -- google BIPV.

[hedgehog]

31. The one advantage I see is the possibility of bringing panel prices

down or efficiencies up. We have cheap computers now partly as a result of the Space program back in the 60's and 70's. NASA made it possible to develop the basic chips and then the market took it from there.

[skids]

32. More demand won't help that...

...there's already a demand far exceeding supply. Only actual investments in moving technology off the startup product development bench and into mass production will help at this point.

[ozone_man]

33. Is it a chicken or egg case?

We have to start somewhere. We can't produce solar photovoltaics cheap enough, because production is not on a mass scale. How do we get production on a mass scale, when the technology is too expensive to afford?

From my understanding, the limiting factors for solar PV is not so much the efficiency as the cost. Some of the most promising technologies have lower efficiencies, but show great promise in low cost mass production. More R&D is always good, but some pilot programs like this can get the ball rolling. Of course they have to be successful, or it can hurt progress. Eventually the cost of oil will make solar and wind more attractive. I was surprised to see the scale of this proposal though. I hope it's real.

Another thing to consider is the full cost of using fossil fuel, from extraction damage and spills to combustion by products that produce acid rain and greenhouse gasses, not to mention wars. We generally don't consider these costs. No energy source is free of impacts, except for the negawatt (efficiency), but some have much lower impacts.

[skids]

40. Production of mono-Si and aSi is on a mass scale already.

The problem is that production of solar-grade Si itself, the raw material that is needed, is not scaled up. Solar companies were living of the tables scraps of computer microchips and only this year have anything approaching serious quantities of made-for-solar Si started to be made. Companies are fighting each other over contracts to procure it.

It is being scaled to meet demand but that will take years and years and will likely never truly catch up.

Meanwhile we have hundreds of startup companies that have ways of making panels or collectors that use no or much less Si to produce the same amount of power -- see a few of my dkos diaries:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/3/7/114711/9242
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/2/14/18012/4618
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/2/11/212615/253

Many of those companies have to go begging for financing on the order of a $1 million, and competing for grants of a few hundred thousand dollars. What 1.6 billion could do for one of them as compared to being spent on the proposal would be to push a cheap system into mass production, as opposed to just making Si more scarce for everyone else.

[ozone_man]

44. Silicon is a very abundant element.

I doubt solar PV would make Silicon scarce. 25% of the Earth's crust is Silicon. Granted, the crystaline or amorphic Silicon required for PV cells undergoes a lot of processing, but that is something that can expand to meet the needs. But they're always coming up with new PV technologies, e.g., photovoltaic films that can be mass produced from rolling machines. I think we need to address the issue at all levels, R&D, consumer awareness (why alternative energy), environmental impact (one world), manufacturability/cost, political impact (wars for oil). Part of the parallel development would include solar thermal. There will always be applications for both. Certainly heating applications will favor solar thermal generation, while electrical needs will favor solar photovoltaic generation.

[skids]

45. .

http://www.wired.com/news/planet/0,2782,67013,00.html
http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/30382/story.htm
http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=43983

[ozone_man]

48. Demand is outpacing supply.

Once the chip market cools down, as the consumer credit spree and budget deficit spending catches up with us, the foundries will be hungry for business again. It's a Silicon seller's market right now. It's analagous to housing. When the housing market cools off, expect the Silicon market to cool off.

Of course that doesn't stop the government from making some Silicon foundries. A coherent national energy policy is required.

"It takes three years to build a new polysilicon plant," Homan said, so the shortage of silicon could last until 2008.

Semiconductor manufacturers are able to outbid solar companies for the available silicon because the material makes up a much smaller portion of their production costs, Homan said. "We are getting into a pricing war" between industries, Homan said.

[skids]

49. And your point is...?

...to get back to the OP, your point seems to be that it's just fine and dandy for someone to build a huge PV installation in the middle of a silicon shortage, escalating silicon prices even more, as opposed to putting that investment money where it makes the most sense -- scaling up low-Si technologies that will end up still being cheaper than the high-Si techs after the silcon shortage is over?

Is that what you are trying to get across here?

[ozone_man]

51. It's a five year plan.

The economy will be back in recession long before that, freeing up the Silicon foundries. Probably a back log of cell phone imagers, my guess. People need to hang up and drive. :)

It could take up to five years to have the full 300 megawatts on line and connected to the grid, Balch said. But the farm could connect to grid sooner. It will take about 18 months to build the factory and construction on the solar farm is to start in about two years Balch said.

Not saying that the present shortage of Silicon isn't a problem, just that there may be some ways of dealing with it. Possibly even build a new Silicon foundry just for PV Silicon, maybe get a government grant. If they have used 70 consulting engineers, presumably they have thought of some of these issues. One would hope.

[skids]

53. A U.S. economic slump...

...won't hurt silicon demand. That's worldwide, just like oil.

[ozone_man]

55. World wide economic slump.

We have a world economy now. When the U.S. sneezes, the world catches cold. Also, we are the biggest consumers.

If a foundry takes three years to build and yield full production, that might fit into a 5 year plan. If GM wants to build a new car and they don't have the facilities, they build a new plant. Is this much different? It's just sand. ;)

[skids]

56. They have no plans to create a foundry.

Their plan is just to build a solar panel factory, and buy Si off a market that, no, even in an economic slump, will not be depressed (considering that energy will be at a major premium, and that's what it provides.)

But anyway, have your last word. I said my piece, which I think I demonstrated quite well above: this plan does nothing to push forward technology. It's just the same old thing, at a time when the market needs change.

[BrightKnight]

42. You can buy PV shingles now, panels are cheaper

You can buy a turnkey system for about 17k that will more than offset a households electricity usage for 20 years.

They should be required on all new construction.


Economies of scale will bring the cost down.

-----------------

Distributed production is more efficient because you don't loose power in transmission.

[OKIsItJustMe]

59. Uni-Solar Shingles

http://www.uni-solar.com/uploadedFiles/0.4.1_shingle_sell_sheet_10-7-04_high_res.pdf

...
Each SHR (solar home roofing) shingle utilizes the proprietary Triple Junction solar cells manufactured by UNI-SOLAR. These cells are made in a roll-to-roll deposition process on a continuous roll of stainless steel. The result is a unique, flexible, lightweight solar cell. The UNI-SOLAR PV Shingles are encapsulated in UV stabilized polymers making them exceptionally durable. Bypass diodes are connected across each cell, allowing the modules to produce power even when partially shaded.

The Solar Shingle will replace the conventional shingle. The shingles are UL Listed both as an electricity generator and as a prepared roofi ng cover. Each shingle has a pair of wires coming off the back of the shingle that will be fed through the roof deck for wiring inside the attic. The solar shingle wires can be “shorted” during installation. The wires from adjacent shingles are connected together using moisture resistant butt splices. The shingles are mounted over 30 lb. felt or a fire resistant underlayment (e.g. Elk® Versa Shield.)
...

[amandabeech]

38. Solar thermal collection devices do not degrade in efficiency

during high temperature operation. Traditional silicon photovoltaic cells' efficiency may degrade severely in the high temperatures reached in the NM desert during the summer.

I'll be interested in comparing this installation with solar thermal installations being installed in California and Arizona.

[toopers]

28. Why not put a wind farm and a solar farm together.

Wouldn't you maximize the use of that bit of real estate?

[ozone_man]

36. If there is wind potential there.

Or the solar collectors can be located where there is wind potential. Look at the Dakotas. NM seems to have plenty of wind potential. Good idea.

Twenty Northern Plains Indian Reservations hold several hundred gigawatts of wind power potential, earning the Dakotas the title "Saudi Arabia of Wind." Wind power potential on these Indian Reservations alone is more than enough to meet North American Kyoto targets.

The richest wind energy regime in the world is just up wind from the region of greatest energy consumption and acid rain impacts in North America.

http://www.nativewind.org/html/wind_potential.html#

It's only fitting that Native Americans should be the suppliers of energy for the future. Solar and wind.

“We don't inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children”
- Native American proverb

[DS1]

34. Are they public?

If so, what's the ticker?

[Tight_rope]

35. Great news for New Mexico! ..Too bad I live in Texas.

:thumbsup:

[robcon]

43. There are significant limitations for solar power.

1. The amount of energy transmitted per square meter is low.

2. Night time

3. Clouds

4. Winter, when solar radiation is even lower.

Solar has a place in the array of energy sources. Unfortunately, it is a small place.

[OKIsItJustMe]

60. "Make hydrogen while the Sun shines"

http://www.humboldt.edu/~serc/trinidad.html

THE SCHATZ SOLAR HYDROGEN PROJECT

The Schatz Solar Hydrogen Project is a full-time, automated, stand-alone energy system that demonstrates that hydrogen can be used to store solar energy. It powers the air compressor that aerates the aquaria at Humboldt State University's Telonicher Marine Laboratory in Trinidad, California. The system uses energy from the sun to power the compressor directly and to produce hydrogen that powers the compressor when the sun is not available. The end result is that the fish enjoy solar-powered air bubbles twenty-four hours a day.
...

[robcon]

61. It's not the storage that is the primary issue.

It's the amount, and the consistency of the energy source that is the problem.

I agree that storage will improve with technology. But solar energy is just not all that plentiful.

[sweetheart]

46. what about turning off streetlights between midnight and 6am

A culture of total waste has got to deal with demand
as well as supply.... turning off the streetlights
could erase the need to build anything.

[LeftHander]

52. So they can sell it to you....

Why can't we just add solar panels as a requirement for new construction....???

[DUHandle]

54. I think the best news

is the construction of a factory to develop the photo voltaic cells.

Right now, there's a bottleneck in getting them, and the beginning of manufacture will help to end it.