UN must reform or die, says Rice (BBC News)

[Up2Late]

(This headline SHOULD be, "US Threatens the UN, Again." PLUS a VERY goofy picture of Rice)

UN must reform or die, says Rice

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has said the UN cannot "survive as a vital force" if it does not reform.

Saturday, 16 April, 2005, 04:15 GMT 05:15 UK

Ms Rice told journalists in the US that everyone recognised that some things in the UN needed to be fixed. She said John Bolton, a long-time critic of the UN and nominated as the next US ambassador to the body, would help update, reform and strengthen it.

Her comments come as the UN is embroiled in a scandal over corruption in its oil-for-food programme for Iraq. It has also been dogged by accusations of sexual abuse committed by UN peacekeepers in Africa. UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan has accepted that change is urgently needed, and has proposed a series of sweeping reforms.

"Not so great"

Speaking to the American Society of Newspaper Editors in Washington, Ms Rice said: "As important an institution as it is, one has to say that there are some things that are not so great about the United Nations right now. "Everybody recognises that, and we've got to fix it. "It is no secret to anyone that the United Nations cannot survive as a vital force in international politics if it does not reform."

(more at link above)

[Maple]

1. Rice says a lot of strange things

Just ignore her

[saigon68]

17. The EVIL ONE can't be ignored anymore than a piece of DOG SHIT

It gets on your shoes, and you will track it in on the carpet if you don't SCRAPE IT OFF.

[saskatoon]

56. Evil One?

Yes she does appear to be such as that or else she is like Bush and some of his followers who have let that power go to their heads and really think they are omnipotent and oh so wise and someday they will face reality and recognize who and what they are and their position in the universe and their silly little pretensions. It wont come soon but it will come.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. You ignore her at your own risk

[FourStarDemocrat]

44. She's such a diplomat, got to hand it to her...

"It" being a nice straightjacket and duck tape to shut that mouth up.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maat]

3. She just makes me ill.

I think that I WILL have to ignore her (or continue to do so).

[gauguin57]

4. Aw Condi, shut up and go walk on your "husband's" back....

... in those spiked boots. Pickles won't do it for him. We really don't give a rat's ass what you think of the U.N., you lame-ass excuse for a Sec-of-State.

[autorank]

5. Condi, listen up: "Bush cannot "survive as a vital force" if it does not

reform." Condi, you are an idiot!!! How can the biggest debtor nation, one that can't balance its budget or run a clean election (can't even invade a weak country and make it work)...how can that country's leaders criticize any organization for being screwed up.

[aquart]

6. Death threats?

Nice, Condi.

[Kitsune]

7. As I recall, Germany, Italy, and Japan said this of the League of Nations

I know Japan said the League was internationally meaningless because I just read a propaganda document from 1932 from Japan, but I'm fairly sure Germany and Italy said the same sorts of things at various points in the League's history (ie, when Italy invaded Ethiopia).

Makes ya feel all warm and fuzzy inside, don't it?

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Pass the man a cigar!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes they did... ding, ding, ding... somebody was paying attention in history class....

GOOD JOB!!!

[Art_from_Ark]

82. And a year later (1933), Japan dropped out of the League of Nations

[ohtransplant]

8. Sounds like John Bolton's marching orders to me.

Was there ever really any serious doubt? If this isn't enough to kill his nomination, nothing is.

[caledesi]

21. No, Bolton was nominated for a nefarious purpose..as usual

He will be there to strong-arm these thugs march to Iran.
Negriponte will cook the intel and they will let the Europeans exhaust their protests to our new war.

Coming in June....stayed too

Bob Hope and Bing Crosby "do" Iran. LOL!

[struggle4progress]

36. This is the Bushista "defense" of Bolton's nomination, which ...

... they think may be in trouble: "Gotta have Bolton to save the UN."

Personally, I think this makes about as much sense as saying "Condi's gonna have sinus problems unless she cleans her nose with this electric drill ... "

[DELUSIONAL]

9. She is so eager to do her master's bidding

her soul is bought and paid for -- if she has one of those in the first place.

I use the pronoun "she" but "it" is more appropriate for that bag of bull droppings.

[Voltaire99]

10. American Society of Newspaper Editors: Woof woof!

Can there be a group of more useless people in America than these lapdogs of corporate and right wing power?

The scandals in which Rice has been involved dwarf those of the UN--and these chumps have done all they can to look the other way.

Happily, US papers are losing 1-2% circulation per quarter.

Starve the bastards out. :-)

[MisterP]

11. bad Borg! BAD Borg!

[Randi_Listener]

12. Someone get Condi a hot cup of Shut the Fuck Up.

[smirkymonkey]

38. Coming right up....

[Erika]

13. Condi is sickening

She has no credibility.

[Frances]

14. Will we see a mushroom cloud if Condi doesn't get her way?

nt

[yorkiemommie1]

15. evil dominatrix

strides around the world threatening, cracking her whip. how is that the * administration has brought out the very worst this country has to offer?

edited to add that if i ever doubted the existence of evil i no longer do.

[Melodybe]

16. Well, I'm sorry Condi but thanks to Al Gore the world is more connected

than ever and we like the UN. We need the UN.

Skeletor needs to shut the fuck up!

[flordehinojos]

20. THESE HERE SUPREMACISTS. THEY MAKE A LOT OF BIG STINK ABOUT ANYONE IN THE

U.N. TELLING THE U.S. WHAT TO DO OR HOW TO RUN ITS GOVERNMENT, BUT DANG IF THEY GIVE A DAMN ABOUT TELLING THE REST OF THE WORLD WHAT TO DO......

.....DID HITLER EVER HAVE THIS MUCH COJONES OR THIS MUCH POWER DESPITE ALL THE KILLINGS THAT HE DID and countries that he invaded?

ONE THING PEOPLE HAD IN HITLER'S TIME WAS THE RESISTANCE MOVEMENT.

WHERE IS OUR RESISTANCE TO THE BUSH REGIME?

[caledesi]

22. I am so siick on the euphemisms..overhaul, reform etc.

Basically the thugs are saying "we are going to get whatever we want."

[Disturbed]

23. She is truely the face of the Bush Junta.

[lumpy]

24. Hardcore 'conservatives'

have been wanting to sink the United Nations for some time, just like the League of Nations was sunk. I'm sure Bushco thinks the UN is 'irrelevant', their actions prove it. I try not to judge a book by it's cover, but that woman certainly has an evil face.

[magellan]

25. Headline I'd like to see

UN Secretary General Kofi Annan has said the US cannot "survive as a vital force" if it does not reform

[Fire Walk With Me]

81. Yeah. What did the UN do? Invade a sovereign nation for oil?

That would be a sign of disatrous leadership and a sure sign of a need to get your shit together before telling anyone else what they should do or be like.

[robbo2356]

26. IMO we should move the U.N Headquarters back to Geneva

[w4rma]

27. At least the whackjobs running our government will be less inclined to bug

the UN diplomats, again, (thereby creating even more animosity) if the UN HQ is not in the US.

[Iterate]

29. I Second that motion. Do I hear a third?

And welcome robbo2356.

[BadNews]

53. I'll add a third

The funny thing is that you would probably get many in the right wing to agree with you. They have been trying to get the UN out of NY for years. Perhaps we should help. As it is, why couldn't NY end up not renewing their lease? That is one suggestion my conservative inlaw had.

[nolabels]

83. They should move it to Havana, Saigon, Kabul or Beirut

or at least some other place that is more neutral and peaceful

[Theduckno2]

66. Count me in!

Here we are the host country for the United Nations and we want to send it packing! The rest of the world should call our bluff. Just imagine the Secretary-General saying something like "Given the recent grievous scandal concerning the ficticious WMD in Iraq the Bush Administration needs to reform or become irrelevant on the world stage."! That would sure ruffle Bolton's moustache!

[cornermouse]

28. We've done such a great job of controlling Halliburton

that we now feel the need to control the U.N...

[chelsea0011]

30. Bolton....coming in to take over? The arrogance of these people.

[ck4829]

31. The US needs to be reformed

I've got a feeling that many of the problems of the UN actually came from UN-Haters.

Take Oil-for-food for example. I can name several RW'ers who are involved with the program.

The US needs to be reformed too, and the 1st item on the Agenda? Throwing Bush and the 'christian' Right out of power.

[truthisfreedom]

32. the US no longer has any meaning but as a threat to something else.

this is bushco's gift to our country and the world.

[truthisfreedom]

33. condi must be busy spreading her democracies. both of them... jackbooted.

thigh-high jackbooted.

[Vogon_Glory]

34. UN Should Plan To Live Without US

Since the right wing has the US government by the throat and is gleefully turning our Republic into a rogue state under the control of the Banana Republican Party, the UN would be wise to start making contingency plans to continue its existence if the Far Right achieves its wet dream and pulls the US out of the UN.

I expect that after a long stay in the wilderness, a poorer, hungrier, humbler US would eventually petition the UN for readmission--but it probably won't get its veto back.

[Zorra]

43. Yes. It is clear that by "reform", Rice means "become a US puppet".

The nomination of John Bolton is the ultimate diplomatic slap in the face to every other nation on this planet.

IMO, the UN would be wise to move UN Headquarters to a country that has a Democratic government.

[Behind the Aegis]

48. You said it!

The UN does need to reform! However, it needs to reform in that ALL countries have an equal voice. Rice clearly wants the UN to be an extension of US policy. As it is, the UN is at the mercy of the US and a few other powerful nations.

[BadNews]

54. You're right but here is the problem.

This country, and hence the administration has one of the veto powers in the UN. This thing cannot be reformed without agreement of the 5 countries with veto power. Gusee what, that will never happen. It won't reform to *'s liking, and it won't be reformed into something sensible either.

Actually, the only way to reform it is to create a near carbon copy and not invite the US to join. That way the rest of the world could concievably unite against tyrany. Yet, I don't see that happening either.

I doubt if the EU will even get it's constitution ratified, let alone start another UN like body for the rest of the world.

[Vogon_Glory]

67. If The US Leaves The UN

If the US leaves the UN--not simply withdrawing from the Security Council and the General Assembly like a couple of nations have done in the past, but actually withdrawing ENTIRELY from the UN and abrogating most of the UN-associated treaties the US government signed in the past, wouldn't that mean that the US loses its power to veto any UN resolutions? After all, if the US is no longer a participant, it doesn't get to play the game anymore.

[ucmike]

35. "Reform or die"-didn't they say that to saddam, too?

clearly, this white house has plans to invade the UN and make the world safe for 'Muricans, again.

[suegeo]

37. Dr. Rice, failure

As national security adviser, wasn't Dr. Rice responsible for keeping the country secure prior to Sept. 11 2001?

This lady is a colossal screw up. Someone get the hook and pull her off stage.

[Iterate]

39. So what's the bottom line here?

Wouldn't it be so much nicer to deal with ordinary gangsters? No BS, no tortured language, just tell Kofi he signs on or Johnnie B. will put a horse head in his bed.

[fighttotheend]

40. Someone should reform her and BUSH's relationship

:evilgrin:

[leesa]

41. Does she really not know that the US has no authority anymore?

[SoCalDem]

42. The UN should relocate to Brussels.. The US has told it , in blunt terms,

that it is not welcome here.. Wouldn't That be a kick in th pants, if they just said "see-yahhh".. Of course the fundies would claim it as a victory, but I would see it as a gauntlet thrown down to US, and I'm sure that it would be a coup to get the UN relocated to Belgium. The EU is "where it's at" these days anyway..and the UN works closely with NATO ayway.

[hack89]

45. Better be sure the EU is also willing to pick up the US financial

contribution. IRCC, we pay 20 % of the UN budget.

[SoCalDem]

46. WHEN we decide to pay it.. We reneged for many years

because Jesse Helms had his panties in a wad..

[SOS]

50. And Bolton is a Helms protege

Jesse Helms commented on Bolton at the American Enterprise Institute: "John Bolton is the kind of man with whom I would want to stand at Armageddon."

[Kool Kitty]

84. Oh, for Christ's sake!

Helms wants to stand with Bolton at Armageddon? That statement alone should make him unconfirmable. I feel like I fell asleep in America and woke up in Assholia. These people are out of their fuckin' minds. Every last one of them.

[depakid]

55. I agree- Brusels or Geneva

The US is a rogue nation that refuses to sign international treaties, abrogates many that it does sign, and actively works against many UN initiatives.

Although US funding is important, since the Republicans took over Congress, the US has refused to pay its dues and what it does pay often comes with far right strings attached.

As the century progresses, US influence in the world will wane- as other countries ascend. Republican policies have speeded this along- but it's pretty cleer that the majority of the population here has become so propagandized (and dumbed down) over the past 20 years, that the UN really isn't welcome in most of America- so it seems to me only logical that they should start making plans to move.

The sooner the better- both for the UN and the US.

[Gregorian]

47. She won't be around much longer.

The UN will survive. This administration, this anomaly of an administration, will be gone soon. Even a dumbed down American can't tolerate them.

[Melynn]

49. She just told you what the neo-cons plan to do.

The neo-cons are going after the U.N. I guess that's not a secret but BushCo is stepping up the pressure on the U.N.

Why do I feel like I'm stating the obvious.

[Lars39]

62. Yes. This is why Bolton was chosen.

I'm beginning to think Kerik was a huge smoke screen just to make some
of the other choices look OK to those that don't pay close attention.

[Up2Late]

64. I want to know when Sen. Rick Sanatorium is going to apologize...

...for all the BS an crap he said about the "Oil for Food" program, now that it's clear the a Texas Oilman and the U.S. Navy, were the Key players behind the scandal?

Note: I did say "Sen. Rick Sanatorium" on purpose, an propose that be his new name.:evilgrin:

[Kool Kitty]

85. Well, I'll certainly second that.

If for no other reason than he truly belongs in a sanatorium. Good one, Up2Late!

[Deja Q]

51. It dies because a handful of participants won't participate.

One of them houses the HQ in New York, NY. Can youse guess which one?

And with *'s idea of diplomacy, better to push the button now. :-(

[BadNews]

52. What if the administration refuses funding?

I've heard this bantied about by the right. They say get the US out of the UN. I'm worried. What is to stop them from refusing to pay our dues to the UN. Didn't Reagan do that? The US pays a heafty percentage of the UN's total funding.

Here is a thought. They could say it is not working (at least how they want it to), and refuse funding. Then, when it is strugling to survive financially and therefore less able to make an impact anywhere, say see we told you it was worthless.

Something to think about and watch for. Why wouldn't this be possible?

[Bridget Burke]

71. Reduction in funding is already the plan.....

From April 6th:

The Senate voted Wednesday to reduce the United States' share of the cost of U.N. peacekeeping missions by tens of millions of dollars.

The vote reflected congressional criticism of the United Nations following allegations of corruption and mismanagement in the oil-for-food program for Iraq, sexual abuses by peacekeepers and other scandals.

U.S. dues are now capped at 27.1 percent of the peacekeeping budget. Under a 1994 law, that cap is to be reduced to 25 percent.

www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/04/06/national/w093837D37.DTL

[BadNews]

76. My Prediction

That doesn't surprise me at all. Those reductions were scheduled since 1994?? I would bet that this congress will eventually vote to reduce funding dramatically. If funding is reduced to the point that the UN really becomes nothing more than a debating society, they will have reached their goal.

Then, when things don't go their way in the body, the response will be so what. What can the UN really do. When they get a small concession, they can claim a mandate to take to what ever extremes they feel necessary. With one of the vetos they can shoot down any substantial threat to their system.

The only real answer for the world would be an international body wher this country is not included. The danger with that would be this country could claim the right to do what they want because they were not included in the process.

It is hard to win a game with a stacked deck.

[Mountainman]

57. The rest of the world to Rice, "Why don't you bite me right in the ass?"

God these clowns take themselves so serious! Like it was said in the hearings, no one is even going to listen to Bolton.

[cliss]

58. Is this woman sexually frustrated?

Notice the wording, "vital force". On another thread, MISS Rice was quoted as saying, "powerful" (a reference to Democracy), "strong" (again, referring to Democracy", "long-lasting", (again, refering to "Democracy).

Anybody else notice this?

[pinkpops]

77. Could be ...

" Rice, who is unmarried, was reportedly overheard saying, "As I was telling my husb—" before abruptly stopping herself. She continued: "As I was telling President Bush." Paging Dr. Freud…

http://politicalhumor.about.com/b/a/080088.htm

[bamacrat]

59. Is this a threat ???

Or are they just saying change like we want, so that when we take the world over we wont have to kill you. So transparent

[ihelpu2see]

60. she knows squat. it is the neocon ploy to continually bash

the UN since they were right on IRAQs weapons program. the oil for food scandal is a drop in the bucket compared to the 8 Billion our Gov. lost in IRAQ... YES LOST 8 billion unaccounted for in IRAQ

So the best way to get thinks done the neocant way is to lie about the people who tell the truth..... ie. "liberal press", "bankrupt" social security, and "WMDs"... and if the press said booo about the admin being wrong that dam liberal press...

[Rex]

61. Reform means a US bug in every UN HQ room.

That no one talk badspeak about Bush or anyone associated with Bush. That the US is loved and wanted by member nations who will sign a loyalty oath to the GOP. Thank God for moral values!!!

[ClarkUSA]

63. Yes, and she also calls Bolton "a great diplomat" and "a good manager"

The patients are running the asylum.

[Pallas180]

65. Interesting. The NeoCons find the UN a threat to their supremacy

I guess

:shrug:

[confludemocrat]

78. They think the can easily destablize the EU so

the only other thing standing in their plan of world dominance by Neocon economics, Militarism and oligarchic white anglo rule is the UN.

The only people they think the word "reform" works on is the 51% of Americans who have been led to endorsing this dangerous situation in the world. So it's for these deluded people.

[confludemocrat]

79. Here's a reform: Sec. Council veto for "nonaligned" nations

How's that Condi? If you were truly interested in reform stuff like this would have been brought up by you already. So this leads me to say to you: GO FUCK YOURSELF you evil death bot, since no one else ever will.

[napi21]

68. Just what in the heck kind of reform do they want now???

I know I'm damn sick of Shrub's reforms here in the US, and I'm sure he's going to find out real soon that the rest of the World doesn't like it either! Just who does he think he is telling the UN they have to change or die?????

[frankly_fedup2]

69. They sure did not waste any time getting their agenda started.

Bolton was just approved Friday, wasn't he. Do they think we are stupid or what?

[Malva Zebrina]

70. Rice

I think she gets the talking memo, spends her nights memorizing all of it, at which she is good at, then, having mastered the art of the talk, repeats it verbatim.

She is not her own woman, and the more she trots around the globe saying nothing but what she has memorized, like she has memorized her piano recitals, the more she appears to be a robot.

I would not look for this robot to do or to say anything that would indicate she has any sense of innovation or creativity. It looks like she simply memorizes and practices the delivery.

[BreweryYardRat]

72. That stupid bitch can fuck off.

After what she's helped do to our country, she sure as hell doesn't have any right to be making statements like this.

[peacetalksforall]

73. Rice and Bolton are Dan Burton's and Jesse Helm's hero saviors.

Does anyone know how many right wing groups want to destroy the U.N.? How can right wingers and pnacers take over the world with the UN in the way? All that money we invest in the UN could be spent on lobbyists and reverend payola towards the religious takeover of the US.

[Roland99]

74. Take away the veto option

And start making the U.S. accountable for it's own transgressions and those of Israel.

[indepat]

75. What does Madame Secretary mean by reform: march in lockstep

to the beat of the neocon/PNAC agenda?

[bobthedrummer]

80. And so, boys and girls, that's the reason that John Bolton will be

representing the BFEE at the UN.:crazy: :hurts: :cry: :+ :puke: :argh:

[in_cog_ni_to]

86. THAT is why Bolton was nominated.

They don't want the UN to survive. It's as simple as that.

[blindpig]

87. "UN must bend over or die", says Rice n/t

[Toucano]

88. She isn't quotes as actually using the word "die".

That's not a defense of Condi, but just a technicality that I wanted to point out.

[Az_lefty]

89. You could easily change UN to U.S in this statement

and be dead on target. I'm more than a little tired of the bush cabal pointing the fingure of blame at everyone around them.

[barb162]

90. why doesn't this incompetent person go back to teaching Russian

somewhere in some junior college or high school