2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: If Sanders was such a great choice, his fans wouldn't have to resort to lies and conspiracy theories [View all]Perseus
(4,341 posts)1. "For example. Sanders fans wouldn't have to claim that self-selecting online polls represent "the people" but scientific polls are manipulated in favor of Clinton."
A. You may need to point out where that has been said, about scientific polls...what HAS been said, repeatedly, is that the media hypes HRC's performance at the debate, that they ignore the turnouts and also fail to report on Sanders' campaign. And that yes, they do hype their own polls, not the scientific polls. If you have proof of the scientific poll allegation, I will gladly stand corrected.
2. "They wouldn't have to insist that corporations are donating money to Clinton..."
A. Well, this IS a fact. Sanders is getting his donations from the people, Clinton is getting hers from corporations and wall st. Why does that matter? because you have to be very naive to believe that if I donate to your campaign that I am doing it for the pleasure of seeing you win, and that I don't intend to use those donations as an ROI. Something to understand is that corporations, and I know because I worked for one, do push their people to donate for certain candidates, they do it in such a way that they don't break any laws, but they do it.
3. "They wouldn't have to claim that the fix is in every time a major union endorses Hillary" I won't argue with that one, not sure what has transpired in the back rooms to have unions believe that HRC would be a better candidate for them, but it is their decision.
4. "They wouldn't have to pretend that Hillary is a conservative or DINO when her voting record..."
A. Her voting record shows that she supports the big tickets that republicans like, TPP (she just changed her tune, but she supported it), the Iraq invasion, etc. Her record is more to the right than to the left, less progressive and more conservative.
5. "They wouldn't have to claim that there's no difference between Hillary and the GOP on economic issues..."
A. She has changed her tune in many of these issues since Sanders is on the race, Sanders is the cause of why HRC has suddenly adopted many of these ideas. For example, in June she supported $12.00 for minimum wage, then as Sanders pushed forward, she changed her tune in July and suddenly she was all for $15.00.
6. "The reality is that we have three candidates who are very strong on the issues. Yes, there are some differences, but all the candidates are strong progressives"
A. The difference really is that HRC has been pushed to the progressive side by Sanders, her history does not support many of her stands today. I agree to an extent with your statement, but Sanders is by far the most progressive and his record shows it, he has been right in so many issues where HRC has been wrong, TPP and Iraq just to name a couple outstanding issues.
7. "he problem for the Sanders camp is that if people believe the truth then there isn't much reason to take a chance on a self-described socialist who has little support even among his Senate colleagues, and who won't be able to raise enough money to fight back against the GOP in the general."
A. Of all your arguments, this may be the weakest, because Sanders track record has been very good here. Why call him a socialist? He is a "Democratic Socialist" which is different to what you are trying to infer. People, because of ignorance, associate "Socialism" with "Communism" and these are two very different ideologies, a socialist is someone who favours and believes that government is there to serve the people, not special interests, and that social programs, that help people improve themselves is one of government priorities. He believes that health care is a right and should not be there to fill the coffers of Insurance Companies and their CEOs, that education should be free, and this is without infringing on private institutions. That is what a "Democratic Socialist" is, and Sanders is that, he believes in capitalism, but not one where only a few benefit. I am not sure what is wrong with that...Don't use "Socialist" as it is a bad thing, you already benefitt from a lot of the "socialist" programs in the USA.
If Sanders does not win the nomination I will definitely support HRC, because like Sanders said, "HRC will be indefinitely a better president than any in the GOP". God help the USA if a GOP clown wins.