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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: If Sanders was such a great choice, his fans wouldn't have to resort to lies and conspiracy theories [View all]pinebox
(5,761 posts)100. Dan's upset because I debunked every single one of his claims
You can see my responses here to his post and this is what this whole thread is about.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=789356
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=789814
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=791020
An example of my post is here;
----------------------------------------
But that's a good way to spin it so things fit your narrative.
I've debunked you twice, want a third time? Ok.
wo issues where Bernie and Hillary have the same position. Both are strong on the environment, both get strong ratings from LCV, but Hillary is both more electable and also a more capable leader.
Are you honestly kidding all of us? Dan, what part of "The TPP is the gold standard" aren't you understanding? She mentions the TPP and how wonderful it is in her book 45 times. FORTY FIVE. The same position but her position is always changing when the wind blows. Again, the pot issue.
No Dan she's not more electable, she doesn't do as well in a general. The general is what matters. Not Dem pandering.
Sure, there are a few such people, but there's no evidence that this is a significant factor, certainly not enough to outweigh the number of people who won't vote for him because he's too far left.
As opposed to those who won't vote for Hillary because she's been hated for decades? I have news for you, Hillary is hated a great deal more than Bernie is. In fact, I'll even use your own logic against you with "GOP attacks only Hillary".
Hillary is underwater & it's a problem. People don't vote for candidates they don't like.
Calling her "reactionary" is just dumb. And the problem with over-the-top rhetoric like that is that it plays well in the Bernie bubble, but just makes you look silly outside of it. Bernie is further left than Hillary, that's true, but they are both progressive. Look at her voting record, her platform, etc.
No Dan it isn't dumb, it's a fact. It's not over the top rhetoric either. It's a fact she's a flip flopper and she's the biggest one in the entire race no matter what side of the aisle you look at. She's completely reactionary. How many years did it take her to come out in support of SSM?
*KXL
*TPP
*Single Payer
*NAFTA
*DOMA
*Iraq
*Guns
*Insert latest political issue here
On and on Dan. On and on.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/oct/08/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-now-opposes-trans-pacific-partners/
This is totally false. There aren't nearly enough CEOs of big companies to amount to even a small fraction of her donations at $2700 a pop, even if they all did support Hillary, which they don't.
No Dan, it isn't false. It's true and I showed you what Politifact said. You want another chart to prove my point?
Here you go. Show us otherwise. Show us something that says she isn't propped up by the 1% please. Ball is in your court because this is factual.
Also totally false. Every major union that endorsed Hillary polled their membership before their endorsement. I'm sure there are some members of unions who prefer Bernie, but most of them don't.
Uhhh no Dan, you're wrong. See the NEA https://gadflyonthewallblog.wordpress.com/2015/09/21/the-nea-may-be-about-to-endorse-hillary-clinton-without-input-from-majority-of-members/
I see it mainly as an attack on Hillary, tying her to Bernie's socialism. Regardless, it's just one billboard. Look at the Benghazi ad they ran on TV (or the entire Benghazi committee, for that matter), or who the GOP candidates go after in their debates. It's all Hillary. Bernie isn't even on the radar. If he somehow gets the nomination, this will all change and he'll be flattened.
And see that's what you don't understand. You say that but Trump said he agrees with Bernie on trade deals. Can you show me please where ANY Republican candidate has said they agree with Hillary? See, here's the difference, Bernie will work with the other side on issues because HE CAN. Hillary would like to BUT SHE CAN'T. I don't know how to explain this better to you but the absolute hate of Hillary from the right and many indy voters causes her a brick wall. We can argue over this but if you honestly think for a second that Republicans will work with Hillary you're mistaken.
Meanwhile Republicans helped Sanders get elected. Can you show us the same please for Hillary when she ran for Senate?
Thank you.
You're wrong, libertarians are opposed to anti-discrimination laws because they feel that privately owned companies should be able to discriminate if they want to, it's not the government's business.
You're confused here Dan. You're thinking Republicans. True Libertarians see things quite differently. See their bylaws please and keep in mind, no (L) is currently serving in Congress.
https://www.lp.org/platform
There aren't very many of them, and they certainly don't want single payer healthcare. Yes, libertarians are crazy. I'm sure your girlfriend is an exception, but by and large, they're nuts.
Sure they're against single payer health care but most Libertarians I've met, real libertarians, by and large share some issues with liberals. That is where we need to concentrate instead of always think "They're the bad guys!" because that solves absolutely nothing. We can start with the Patriot Act and go from there which Hillary by the way has fully supported.
That's how you get shit done.
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If Sanders was such a great choice, his fans wouldn't have to resort to lies and conspiracy theories [View all]
DanTex
Nov 2015
OP
The behavior of Sanders' online supporters is one of the big stories of the primary IMO.
DanTex
Nov 2015
#17
Far left = Social Security, unemployment comp, Mediare, medicade, Voting Rights Act---
eridani
Nov 2015
#20
If you are against people campaigning on an issue that appears hopeless, then you are against
eridani
Nov 2015
#208
The New Deal went as far as it did precisely because many on the left did not think they--
eridani
Nov 2015
#209
The big difference is that the far left is far more at its heart threatening to the 1% power...
cascadiance
Nov 2015
#187
The SO CALLED "Far Left" WON MAJORITIES of votes on minimum wage referendums in RED states...
cascadiance
Nov 2015
#213
there's no such thing as the far left, there's just what's left of the left after you subtract
stupidicus
Nov 2015
#130
I was an Obama supporter in '08. Still am. And I don't listen to conservative radio.
DanTex
Nov 2015
#28
+10 ... Especially since HRC "already has it locked up" .. why pitch petrol on the flames. -nt-
99th_Monkey
Nov 2015
#131
Funny, I had to put some of the same Hillary "fans" back on ignore that I had on ignore 8 years ago
corkhead
Nov 2015
#142
The memes, character assassination and psyops of the HRC campaign are so much more interesting
leveymg
Nov 2015
#60
The behavior of Sanders' online supporters is one of the big stories of the primary IMO.
AlbertCat
Nov 2015
#137
I would happily take four more years of Obama. If Obama had a secret twin, he would get my vote.
DanTex
Nov 2015
#147
Obama and Hillary are pretty close policy-wise, and if anything Hillary is to his left.
DanTex
Nov 2015
#157
What policy similarities are there between Hillary and the GOP on economic issues?
DanTex
Nov 2015
#12
Not true at all. She's for raising taxes and more government investment in infrastructure.
DanTex
Nov 2015
#38
Given that the actual policy differences are enormous, these supposed philosophical similarities
DanTex
Nov 2015
#46
The bad policies don't affect a country immediately. They have to have time to work
mmonk
Nov 2015
#171
You mean like TPP and privtization and charter schools and private health insurance and drilling and
Doctor_J
Nov 2015
#57
Yup, that's also true. We won't get to see it, but if Sanders became president, it wouldn't
DanTex
Nov 2015
#21
If HRC were such a great choice, she wouldn't have the blood of 1,000,000+
KingCharlemagne
Nov 2015
#41
Hilary voted for the war, knowing full well that Iraq had no WMD nor ties
KingCharlemagne
Nov 2015
#51
You don't go on the floor of Congress to sell the war and then not take responsibility for it.
Dawgs
Nov 2015
#69
"...But I cast it with CONVICTION." She's either a liar, or she's incompetent. Not POTUS material.
AzDar
Nov 2015
#90
She makes the connection between Iraq and 9/11 along with nuclear capabilities..
raindaddy
Nov 2015
#139
If ANY who voted 'no' were such a great choice why couldn't they make a difference back then?
Sunlei
Nov 2015
#70
That is a damned good question and one for which I have no easy answer. BTW, Abraham
KingCharlemagne
Nov 2015
#76
And if HRC was such a great choice, her fans wouldn't have to resort to lies either
thesquanderer
Nov 2015
#52
And if Clinton were such a great choice, her fans would know how to use the subjunctive mood.
Jim Lane
Nov 2015
#56
Sorry, but my numbers are accurate. Anyone who wants can verify this for themselves.
DanTex
Nov 2015
#66
Why don't you just go ahead and call for banning all Sanders supporters? Come on, you
KingCharlemagne
Nov 2015
#78
Many will self ban after Hillary becomes the nominee and Sanders endorses her.
MohRokTah
Nov 2015
#94
This OP is spot on. Yesterday I recounted all the BS posts concerning Clinton I have seen
Persondem
Nov 2015
#79
If Bernie was such an inferior candidate, Hillary's fans wouldn't have to resort to
magical thyme
Nov 2015
#85
not to mention, if Hillary was such a superior candidate, all her fans would have to do is
magical thyme
Nov 2015
#88
Hillary and her supporters do the same thing only more so. alas we don't make up lies
PatrynXX
Nov 2015
#91
Personal attacks? You mean like calling other people liars in the first line of the op?
Kentonio
Nov 2015
#119
If Clinton were the better choice, her fans could promote her policies rather than attack others.
bluedigger
Nov 2015
#103
On the big issues, President Hillary will cut American workers down at their knees... jobs to Asia
whereisjustice
Nov 2015
#124
I'm done with giving Primary votes to candidates who have hindered my equal rights in the past and
Bluenorthwest
Nov 2015
#126
Wow! this wasn't alerted and swarmed on by the Sanders supporters? Amazing!
Recoverin_Republican
Nov 2015
#193
Oy. If stuff like this gets 50 recs, the mainstream Demo party is embittered and broken.
villager
Nov 2015
#203