2016 Postmortem

Eric J in MN

(35,619 posts)

74. Bingo. The PM is parsing his words for spin.

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 01:21 PM

Nov 2015

"I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism," he said, "therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy."

The PM can't say, "Denmark has no sort of socialism." Instead he goes from the question of whether Denmark has "some sort of socialism" to the answer that it doesn't have a "socialist planned economy."

Bernie Sanders never said Denmark has a "socialist planned economy." He said that they have universal health care and free universities, and that's what he wants the US to have. Sanders considers a country with those things to be socialist.

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Denmark's prime minister says Bernie Sanders is wrong to call his country socialist//// [View all] Historic NY Nov 2015 OP

Yup. Denmark is just a well functioning western democracy. SunSeeker Nov 2015 #1

A "socialist economy" is not what Sanders aims for cprise Nov 2015 #2

Sanders has yet to explain his idea of socialism. SunSeeker Nov 2015 #3

He puts it *very* simply here cprise Nov 2015 #6

No, he still does not define it. SunSeeker Nov 2015 #83

In political science, a true democracy means cprise Nov 2015 #170

There are several Nordic countries, and they are each unique Recursion Nov 2015 #8

He specifically said Denmark in the debate. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #10

Denmark. Specifically. eom BlueCaliDem Nov 2015 #152

I agree, Sunseeker. I was surprised he didn't have a coherent answer for Maher's setup question. Hoyt Nov 2015 #61

The term "welfare state" is a no-no in the US. msrizzo Nov 2015 #65

Yup. Welfare may be a dirtier word than socialism in the US. nt SunSeeker Nov 2015 #131

Then why does he keep calling himself a socialist? nt SunSeeker Nov 2015 #148

Why do Democrats call themselves that if cprise Nov 2015 #172

Socialism actually destroyed their economy. JaneyVee Nov 2015 #17

Busted! A couple of clicks would have led you to Margaret Thatcher on that Armstead Nov 2015 #22

What? It was written by an economist. JaneyVee Nov 2015 #28

In a publication promoting Thatcherite right wing conservatism Armstead Nov 2015 #36

But it contains actual economic data. JaneyVee Nov 2015 #45

Denmark's economy is successful pinebox Nov 2015 #122

Paul Ryan is an economist AgingAmerican Nov 2015 #102

Interesting article, JaneyVee. SunSeeker Nov 2015 #125

He's not an economist. PotatoChip Nov 2015 #128

Thank you, Historic NY! Cha Nov 2015 #4

Bernie Sanders knows that Denmark has a market economy. Eric J in MN Nov 2015 #5

To me, Bernie's version means cprise Nov 2015 #7

Roosevelt was a Keynesian. Neither President Roosevelt nor Keynes were socialists. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #11

You should read more FDR then cprise Nov 2015 #18

I read Arthur Schlesinger's work on the great man... DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #21

Bernie's not going to give a dissertation on it cprise Nov 2015 #25

No it isnt.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #14

There are multiple definitions of socialism. Eric J in MN Nov 2015 #69

There is only one they maintain on wikipedia...... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #70

Sanders could call himself a Social Democrat Eric J in MN Nov 2015 #78

But he doesnt does he? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #81

I assume that people have talked to him Eric J in MN Nov 2015 #109

Ergo.....he is a Socialist VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #113

Marxism opposes all capitalism. Eric J in MN Nov 2015 #119

I didnt say a marxist and niether did he... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #120

Socialism as a rule opposes all Capitalism VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #123

Clement Attlee was a socialist. Eric J in MN Nov 2015 #146

Was he wver elected President of the United States? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #151

What a crock Trajan Nov 2015 #86

Amen. The definition of socialism is all over the map. Stardust Nov 2015 #159

A debate between Prime Minister Rasmussen and Senator Sanders would be illuminating. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #9

since he is a member of the center-right party, it would be virtualobserver Nov 2015 #29

Does/does not the Prime Minister of a nation know what type of economic system his nation has? DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #31

the right wing has a different perspective (spin) virtualobserver Nov 2015 #32

I am a socialist-capitalist. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #38

Bernie would agree with you....as would I virtualobserver Nov 2015 #41

My only point is that words have meanings... DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #47

Bernie makes his intention very clear virtualobserver Nov 2015 #58

I'm certain there are plenty of Democrats who won't vote for a Socialist, BlueCaliDem Nov 2015 #164

you are all knowing. you know what we think. you know what "plenty of Democrats think" virtualobserver Nov 2015 #175

Just going by what the polls are telling us. No mind reading skills required. eom BlueCaliDem Nov 2015 #185

Bingo. The PM is parsing his words for spin. Eric J in MN Nov 2015 #74

Maybe we all need to go back and read Marx's Socialism-Utopian and Scientific DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #145

This PM's main rival Party is called Socialist Democrats. So his spin on the word is all about Bluenorthwest Nov 2015 #126

Precisely DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #134

The center right there would be to the left of the center right here treestar Nov 2015 #176

that doesn't cut it......center left just lost control two months ago after many years in power virtualobserver Nov 2015 #179

I'm not bickering, only suggesting treestar Nov 2015 #181

labels have no objective meaning virtualobserver Nov 2015 #182

then there is no use in the label then treestar Nov 2015 #183

exactly, no use. virtualobserver Nov 2015 #184

Don't be silly Prime Minister Lars Løkke Rasmussen! BS is never wrong.. take that back! Cha Nov 2015 #12

I suppose that not every post can have some sort of worth. DisgustipatedinCA Nov 2015 #44

Rasmussen is a member of the right leaning Party Venstre, which retook office by defeating their Bluenorthwest Nov 2015 #116

Its what has been my mission lately VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #13

Yes he wants to wipe out Ma and Pa's hardware store down the street.... Armstead Nov 2015 #24

Welcome back, VR. Scootaloo Nov 2015 #30

I am....would you like me to prove it? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #33

Believe me I don't VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #40

Sanders is not a Socialist either Hydra Nov 2015 #15

Then why does he call himself that VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #52

I dunno, probably has something to do with the rightward drift in the US Hydra Nov 2015 #75

It probably has to do with... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #87

*lmao* Hydra Nov 2015 #100

Are you a Socialist? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #103

I am a straight socialist myself Hydra Nov 2015 #112

Opposed to all Capitalism then... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #115

You're just being deberately obtuse now Hydra Nov 2015 #130

No I am not......its the very definitiom..... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #133

If you think Sanders is offering that, cool Hydra Nov 2015 #143

The only evidence I am using is Sanders own VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #149

Yup, I think we are at some point Hydra Nov 2015 #154

They are not feeling like Socialists though VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #155

Uh huh...and everything is just peachy keen right? Hydra Nov 2015 #160

You "job" if you want to call it that.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #168

Those Poll numbers from that Socialist Democrat Hillary Clinton has VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #169

Yes Bernie should stop calling himself a socialist unless he really is one. Bread and Circus Nov 2015 #16

Bernie Sanders is a Democratic Socialist. Denmark is Democratic Socialist riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #19

^^^THIS!^^^ 99Forever Nov 2015 #20

I'm kicking this again just for the incredulity factor riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #23

That's the problem with being tone deaf. 99Forever Nov 2015 #46

It's something new everyday. in_cog_ni_to Nov 2015 #64

Denmark has a market economy: DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #26

You're digging your own grave here by confusing socialism riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #35

Democratic socialism DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #42

I'm sorry you're such a literalist. riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #49

Social Democrat is not the same thing asa Democratic VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #56

Are Democratic socialism and Social democracy two individual ways of organizing an economy ... DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #57

One accepts a balnce between Labor and Capitalism VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #71

Too many rabbit holes DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #73

No holes at all... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #77

So what do you think Bernie is? I think he's a traditional liberal. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #80

I take his word...I think he knows the difference VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #82

Whoa DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #89

HE uses that as a self description... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #91

I hope he is confused DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #94

On multiple occasions... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #97

I'm shocked! Shocked! Armstead Nov 2015 #39

Of course they do because they are social democracies and not democratic socialist states. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #51

He clarifies his points quite clearly. Armstead Nov 2015 #54

Is he a Social democrat or a Democratic socialist? DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #59

I'd call him a capital L liberal Armstead Nov 2015 #63

As would I...I have no idea why we are going down these rabbit holes. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #66

That is my major issue with Sanders. I wish he's just describe himself as that. Armstead Nov 2015 #68

We're not just talking about the economy of a country but its governance too... cascadiance Nov 2015 #105

We are talking about whethrmer or not they accept some VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #110

Are/are not Social democracy and Democratic socialism mutually exclusive ways of organizing ... DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #121

They are two very different things... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #135

Precisely... DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #138

He calls himself a Democratic Socialist... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #140

No no no you are wrong VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #53

I'll take the Scandinavian countries' own definition riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #62

The fly DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #72

Why doesnt Bernie call himself that VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #79

I have no idea. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #85

I do......he calls himself one and not the other VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #88

Yet Sanders calls himself a Democratic Socialist VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #76

This message was self-deleted by its author BlueCaliDem Nov 2015 #161

thank you!!! eom Karma13612 Nov 2015 #174

I don't recall Sanders ever claiming Denmark had a planned economy. Scootaloo Nov 2015 #27

Of course Denmark has a market economy... coyote Nov 2015 #34

RUH roh!!!!!!!!!!!! MADem Nov 2015 #37

Denmark's governance system is also a Parliamentary system... Spazito Nov 2015 #43

Niether are Democratic Socialist countries VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #95

My point was to point out the differences in the governance systems... Spazito Nov 2015 #104

I am pointing out the political difference VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #107

Denmark accepts capitalism as does the US... Spazito Nov 2015 #111

Right and Denmark is A Social Democracy VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #114

The greater issue is whether, as Senator Sanders has posited, the US should be like Denmark... Spazito Nov 2015 #118

NO the greater question is VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #132

It is not going to happen n/t Spazito Nov 2015 #144

Qe are no going to elect Socialist Democrats.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #150

Huh? I don't think Senator Sanders will be the Democratic Presidential candidate... Spazito Nov 2015 #163

I misunderstood you then..... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #165

Some links CentralMass Nov 2015 #48

Whatever labels people prefer whatchamacallit Nov 2015 #50

Bernie chose the label of Democratic Socialist VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #84

The labels don't matter whatchamacallit Nov 2015 #92

Yes they do matter VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #93

Lol whatchamacallit Nov 2015 #96

It would likely get you a bop on the snout... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #99

Delusional beef whatchamacallit Nov 2015 #101

I guess the Prime Minister of Denmark is just VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #106

Did he seem pissed to you? whatchamacallit Nov 2015 #108

He seems to not approve.....doesnt he? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #117

Ok, you win whatchamacallit Nov 2015 #124

The argument now VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #127

In both cases, you win whatchamacallit Nov 2015 #129

I just got off one VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #136

Fresh maybe whatchamacallit Nov 2015 #137

I won this argument.....per you VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #139

I'm just trying to make the pathetic thing end whatchamacallit Nov 2015 #141

Because you lost its "pathetic" VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #142

What does the PM of Denmark know about his own nation's politics? Fred Sanders Nov 2015 #55

Did you even read it? He said it's a "welfare state" tularetom Nov 2015 #60

Exactly. A Welfare state doesnt exist in a Socialist one VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #90

DSA -- Democratic Socialists of America Koinos Nov 2015 #67

This message was self-deleted by its author Cali_Democrat Nov 2015 #98

Rasmussen is right, and wrong HassleCat Nov 2015 #147

Baloney VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #153

Go to the linked article HassleCat Nov 2015 #156

No I wont.....those are Socialist Democracies VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #158

Yes, and Sanders describes himself as a Democratic Socialist HassleCat Nov 2015 #162

NOOOOO Democratic Socialists are NOT the same as VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #166

You might want to verify that HassleCat Nov 2015 #187

Yes I can...you might want to check YOURS... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #189

That's one definition HassleCat Nov 2015 #191

That is THE definition.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #192

Furthermore... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #190

It is confusing and hard to follow HassleCat Nov 2015 #193

No its not confusing at all VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #194

OK, I give up HassleCat Nov 2015 #196

You should give up...because you are wrong. VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #197

Yes, I am wrong HassleCat Nov 2015 #198

My "inferior" evidence is a dictionary.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #199

Nothing, nothing, nothing. I thank you. HassleCat Nov 2015 #200

You could be a member of the Girl Scouts for all I care... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #201

Heavily regulated market driven by consumers. NCTraveler Nov 2015 #157

In Socialism....there are no consumers.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #167

I'm not talking about socialism... NCTraveler Nov 2015 #177

but what you described was NOT Socialism.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #178

The new right-wing Danish PM? The anti-immigrant Danish PM? truebrit71 Nov 2015 #171

Even the Prime Minister of Denmark is not listening clearly. Karma13612 Nov 2015 #173

Sanders will deliver a speech to define "democratic socialism" before the next Democratic presidenti riversedge Nov 2015 #180

He should then explain why he is NOT a Socialist Democrat. VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #195

So Mr. Sanders is in favour of a strong market economy with security for its citizens and Betty Karlson Nov 2015 #186

Well, that should settle that! ... or, not. Hekate Nov 2015 #188

There was a time Euros poroudly called themselves Socialist DonCoquixote Nov 2015 #202

KICK Cha Nov 2015 #203