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2016 Postmortem
Showing Original Post only (View all)SLATE: Bernie Sanders Claims He’s a Longtime Champion of Marriage Equality. [View all]
Its Just Not True.http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/10/05/bernie_sanders_on_marriage_equality_he_s_no_longtime_champion.html
....Sanders is not quite the gay rights visionary his defenders would like us to believe. Sanders did oppose DOMAbut purely on states rights grounds. And as recently as 2006, Sanders opposed marriage equality for his adopted home state of Vermont. The senator may have evolved earlier than his primary opponents. But the fact remains that, in the critical early days of the modern marriage equality movement, Sanders was neutral at best and hostile at worst.
Like his current Senate colleague Sherrod Brown, D-Ohio, Sanders deserves credit for opposing DOMAthen a popular measure with bipartisan supportwhile a member of the House of Representatives in 1996. But Sanders efforts to parlay this vote into indisputable proof of his marriage equality bona fides ring hollow in light of his statements at the time. Explaining his vote in 1996, Sanders chief of staff declared that it was motivated by a concern for states rights, not equality. Explaining that he wasnt legislating values, she noted that Sanders believed DOMA violated the Constitutions Full Faith and Credit Clause by allowing one state to refuse to recognize a same-sex marriage performed in another. Youre opening up Pandoras box here, she said at the time. Youre saying that any state can refuse to recognize the laws of another state if they dont like them. ...... Ten years later, Sanders took a similarly cautious approach to same-sex marriage. In 2006, he took a stand against same-sex marriage in Vermont, stating that he instead endorsed civil unions. Sanders told reporters that he was comfortable with civil unions, not full marriage equality. (To justify his stance, Sanders complained that a battle for same-sex marriage would be too divisive.) At the time, he also opposed a federal anti-gay-marriage amendmentbut so did his Republican opponent for the Senate seat, Richard Tarrant, who also supported civil unions. With a wide lead in the polls and little at stake, Sanders declined to differentiate himself from his opponent by taking the lead on gay rights.
Earlier in his political career, Sanders was even more indifferent toward gay rights: As mayor of Burlington in 1990, Sanders told an interviewer that LGBT rights were not a major priority for him. Asked if he would support a bill to protect gays from job discrimination, Sanders responded, probably not. That was 25 years ago. Sanders has, no doubt, come a long way since then: The senator endorsed Vermonts successful Marriage Equality Act in 2009 and has cheered the Supreme Courts marriage rulings. And he is co-sponsoring the Equality Act, a sweeping federal LGBT rights bill that advocacy groups place high on their post-marriage agenda.
Still, Sanders exaggeration of his marriage equality record is strange and unwise. If Sanders were honest about his evolutionand, yes, it was an evolutionthen he could still brag about supporting marriage equality long before his chief primary rival. Instead, he has attempted to reframe his somewhat tepid support as vociferous and unabating. The LGBTQ community can surely forgive Sanders less-than-spotless record on gay rightsbut that process can only begin once hes honest about it. And in the Democratic candidates race to secure the gay communitys vote, honesty has been in surprisingly short supply.
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SLATE: Bernie Sanders Claims He’s a Longtime Champion of Marriage Equality. [View all]
MADem
Oct 2015
OP
Listen to him. He favors CIVIL UNIONS, not marriage. And he says it is a states right issue.
MADem
Oct 2015
#14
Wow, he really said that? "Then the "marriage" people cry. I say make everyone get "civil marriages"
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#199
You will never know because I will never tell--at least not you. Never have, never will.
MADem
Oct 2015
#237
Where was the claim made that he called for "legalizing same-sex marriage in that statement"?
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#52
What part of "Let us abolish all laws which attempt to a particular brand of morality or
Ed Suspicious
Oct 2015
#70
Yes, the everyday movement of 'practices' in state legislatures does not move in a
riversedge
Oct 2015
#180
Seriously? He didn't want the feds to be able to override the states who made ssm legal.
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#8
For the people who are sick of seeing lgbt rights exploited by HC supporters.
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#12
No one is looking at the video where he says, plainly, his objection is that it is
MADem
Oct 2015
#9
I've looked at it 5 times, he didn't want them to overturn states who legalized ssm.
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#11
Where is the part where he said he opposed same sex marriage like the blogger claims?
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#21
Civil unions are not marriage equality. Civil unions are a lesser choice, and that is what he said
MADem
Oct 2015
#23
Point out the exact part of the video where he says he opposes same sex marriage.
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#24
You haven't proven your claim yet so I'm going to keep asking for your evidence.
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#28
NOoooooooo....he has SAID he voted against DOMA because he thought .... wait for it...
MADem
Oct 2015
#242
Please point out in this transcript where he said he opposes same sex marriage:
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#243
He ducked the question. He was asked about equality and he pivoted and failed to answer.
MADem
Oct 2015
#249
So he never said that he opposed marriage equality and the blogger lied. Good to know!
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#250
Please point out in this transcript where he said he opposes same sex marriage:
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#252
I've answered this question, what--four, five times already? Do you think spamming is a substitute
MADem
Oct 2015
#253
I don't think the author of the piece minds his answer either--what he objects to is the
MADem
Oct 2015
#127
"as recently as 2006, Sanders OPPOSED marriage equality for his adopted home state of Vermont"
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#131
He did. He said, in 2006, on that video, that he supported CIVIL UNIONS for Vermont.
MADem
Oct 2015
#132
When he answered the question "Do you favor gay marriage" with "I favor civil unions." nt
MADem
Oct 2015
#138
Ha ha ha! So, if he answers the question "Do you support gay marriage in VT" with the "civil
MADem
Oct 2015
#141
So that's your fall back? You can't prove your claim and now you're saying it's not enough for me?
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#144
Ah, how convenient. You can imply Bernie didn't support ssm but Hillary is off limits?
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#152
Start one if you'd like. I'll be the first to say, flat out, that HRC was slow out of the gate on
MADem
Oct 2015
#217
Kev, listen to it again. He was running for Senator of VT. The questioner was asking him about
MADem
Oct 2015
#216
"Do you think that gay people should have the right to get married outside of Massachusetts
MADem
Oct 2015
#222
re: "He replied that he supports civil unions and that is a states right issue. "
thesquanderer
Oct 2015
#231
Wait a minute--his "position on DOMA" was that "marriage is a STATE issue" -- he
MADem
Oct 2015
#262
If indeed "the state is making one person in our nation 'lesser' than another person"
thesquanderer
Oct 2015
#268
I see it another way. I think the federal government must speak when it comes to
MADem
Oct 2015
#269
He was being a politician. And that's fine. He was playing the "art of the possible"
MADem
Oct 2015
#272
Nice try, but no. Come back when you find a blogger who can manage the truth.
DisgustipatedinCA
Oct 2015
#168
That is a very tortured interpretation that flies in the face of the plain meaning of what he said.
SunSeeker
Oct 2015
#201
It still doesn't square well with the question asked, which was about marriage and legislative
MADem
Oct 2015
#282
It doesn't matter that there was no issue that he supported these things.
thesquanderer
Oct 2015
#285
There's a difference between expressing what "the reality" was and expressing a personal view on
MADem
Oct 2015
#271
Nothing new there, no smoking gun, no proof of MADem's claim that Bernie opposed ssm.
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#29
Did he say "Civil unions--not marriage equality" or are those your words?
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#30
Actually, they are. All state recognized marriages are civil unions. Each and every one.
Luminous Animal
Oct 2015
#51
Exactly. It was a yes or no question. By saying he supports civil unions, his answer was no.
SunSeeker
Oct 2015
#115
Bingo--that's precisely it. It's de rigeur to not use "negative" language in debates.
MADem
Oct 2015
#119
Yes he did, by asserting he supported civil unions when asked if he supported ssm.
SunSeeker
Oct 2015
#126
Where did he say he supported one and not the other? I must have missed it.
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#130
So you can't prove that claim? Good to know. The op couldn't either.
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#137
Which words? Where did he say he opposed same sex marriage? The exact words, please.
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#142
I already told you in post 126. You may enjoy repeating yourself but I don't.
SunSeeker
Oct 2015
#146
You did, but you're not going to get anything but cut-and-paste for your efforts!
MADem
Oct 2015
#255
Except that being for civil unions does not mean you're against gay marriage.
thesquanderer
Oct 2015
#188
Changed his position from what to what? Where did he say he opposed ssm?
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#43
Of COURSE he is--that's in the article, too, that he was ahead of the curve as well. nt
MADem
Oct 2015
#48
The blogger lied: "Sanders opposed marriage equality for his adopted home state of Vermont"
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#53
Nope. The blogger lied and your claim that Bernie opposed ssm was false.
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#62
No, that's not accurate. I provided an article for comment, and you became angry at me
MADem
Oct 2015
#71
You posted "It’s Just Not True." And now you're claiming that I "became angry".
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#72
Well if you would have answered me I wouldn't have had to keep asking.
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#77
Except that Bernie didn't "evolve" since he never opposed same sex marriage.
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#82
Sanders evolved as the OP notes. Good for him-and good for Clinton. Nothing wrong with evolving
riversedge
Oct 2015
#171
Because the author lied. He didn't say he thought Bernie opposed ssm, he stated it as fact.
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#88
Hmmm. Your source says Bernie was mayor of Burlington in 1990. He was not. In1988
Luminous Animal
Oct 2015
#37
The writer of that piece is "speaking as a gay man," and he's not fond of ANY of the
MADem
Oct 2015
#83
How many of our staunch allies were advocating equal marriage rights in 1975?
Betty Karlson
Oct 2015
#111
The video was from 2006. WAY after DOMA. In 2006 equality WAS on the radar. That's why it was
MADem
Oct 2015
#112
Bernie didn't want the feds to be able to override the states who made ssm legal.
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#118
Yes, I was blocked for refusing to throw former President Jimmy Carter under the bus.
MADem
Oct 2015
#93
No, Jimmy Carter said that it should always be left up to the states.
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#94
I'm "causing a ruckus" because I posted an article by a gay writer about a candidate for POTUS's
MADem
Oct 2015
#97
Nothing to be sorry for--that article is fact based. I'm not beating a horse, but
MADem
Oct 2015
#213
Hillary asserted states' rights re: gun control - are you going to compare her to racists too?
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#113
Those aren't her words? Which part of what she said doesn't assert states' rights?
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#134
He just won't listen, lgbt people have told him so IN THIS THREAD and he refuses to see it.
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#129
Thanks for kicking the thread. The gay author of the blog IS right. The video doesn't lie. nt
MADem
Oct 2015
#143
The blogger lied: "Sanders opposed marriage equality for his adopted home state of Vermont"
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#145
He is not a "blogger" -- he is a SLATE writer who reports on LGBT and Law issues--and his report is
MADem
Oct 2015
#148
I know what question was asked, I know far more about this than you do apparently.
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#149
His report claims Bernie was Mayor of Burlington in 1990 which he was not. This is one of the few
Bluenorthwest
Oct 2015
#189
When you have a video of bernie saying marriage should be only between a man and a woman, get back
djean111
Oct 2015
#157
Whatever Bernie said, it was not as bad as Hillary's "marriage is only between a man and a woman"
djean111
Oct 2015
#161
The point of the article is to somehow make it appear that Hillary is better on gay rights than
djean111
Oct 2015
#164
Absolutely not--this writer has gone after Clinton too (and plenty of people yelling
MADem
Oct 2015
#166
Please provide evidence where Sanders has said: "Marriage is between a man and a woman."
Armstead
Oct 2015
#176
ah, I do not have to. Evolving does not mean specific words that one has said. It is movement from
riversedge
Oct 2015
#181
And another poster is added to my list of "Don't bother reading his/her crap." (eom)
mak3cats
Oct 2015
#172
Please point out in that text where he said he opposes same sex marriage.
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#210
Put the question that was asked in front of your quote and it's apparent to everyone.
MADem
Oct 2015
#211
That's what I thought. Aaaaaaaaand we're all done here folks! Nothing to see.
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#212
Funny how you refuse to do that. You keep avoiding simply putting the question down ahead of
MADem
Oct 2015
#214
I'll believe it when he admits that Bernie never said he opposed same sex marriage.
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#233
The full-throated support comes from the "I didn't have to evolve--I was there" remarks he has
MADem
Oct 2015
#267
There is only one thing I'm more tired of than the 'state's rights' excuse and that is...
wyldwolf
Oct 2015
#225
Jimmy Carter, Mr. Habitat For Humanity, was named Asshole of the Year for not being "correct"
MADem
Oct 2015
#239
Please point out in this transcript where he said he opposes same sex marriage:
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#240
So he never said he opposed same sex marriage. Thanks! I suppose you'll be deleting this op?
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#246
Show me in that video where he says--in answer to the QUESTION he was asked--that he supports it.
MADem
Oct 2015
#257
The blogger lied. Unless you can point out where Bernie said he opposed marriage equality:
beam me up scottie
Oct 2015
#248