2016 Postmortem

brush

(53,978 posts)

263. I really have nothing to say to you after that

Reply to F4lconF16 (Reply #262)

Sat Oct 3, 2015, 02:10 AM

Oct 2015

Explains your all about yourself OP.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

315 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Why I don't think I will be able to vote for Clinton if Sanders fails... [View all] F4lconF16 Oct 2015 OP

Okay. So either don't vote or vote for the other side. It's all about choices. leftofcool Oct 2015 #1

Predictable. Inane, and predictable. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #3

You just stated you could not vote for Hillary. leftofcool Oct 2015 #6

there are more than two choices restorefreedom Oct 2015 #51

There are only two viable choices emulatorloo Oct 2015 #71

i will not stay home restorefreedom Oct 2015 #79

As you should. But keep in mind your vote has real-world consequences. emulatorloo Oct 2015 #100

my closest friend on earth is gay restorefreedom Oct 2015 #105

underline VIABLE. this is why the left LOSES. i want to WIN, no other option these days of FUX GNEWZ pansypoo53219 Oct 2015 #93

This is why we need Sanders, and we need him to win. Scootaloo Oct 2015 #129

Scenario certain SCantiGOP Oct 2015 #133

I think you missed my point. Scootaloo Oct 2015 #174

you might be right SCantiGOP Oct 2015 #178

The point I make is that I think only a Sanders win can stop our steady drag to the right Scootaloo Oct 2015 #181

+1 Exactly, Scootaloo. We've seen this mechanism in operation for decades, senz Oct 2015 #179

Is that why Vermont only has Senators from the two main parties? I didn't think so. A Simple Game Oct 2015 #274

I see - the voters of Vermont just aren't as smart as you are. brooklynite Oct 2015 #292

Maybe I just don't understand your post but if you would check A Simple Game Oct 2015 #297

In national elections, there are only two viable options emulatorloo Oct 2015 #311

I will vote for the Democratic Socialist third party candidate just like you say you will. A Simple Game Oct 2015 #315

+1 beerandjesus Oct 2015 #104

third option is to write in your choice peacebird Oct 2015 #61

Which equates to a GOPer vote. BlueMTexpat Oct 2015 #171

I have long since learned that the only thing I can control is my vote peacebird Oct 2015 #176

If Hillary does get the nomination BlueMTexpat Oct 2015 #291

My my... Nice rant there BlueMTexpat! peacebird Oct 2015 #293

And, if he doesn't, BlueMTexpat Oct 2015 #294

You should watch Bad News Bears. I'd go with the original. cui bono Oct 2015 #244

So you'll go third party like what happened in Florida in 2000 . . . brush Oct 2015 #19

Well, for one, I don't live in Florida. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #35

Dems Still Blame Nader mentschinraziel Oct 2015 #137

I like you. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #145

Great first post. cui bono Oct 2015 #245

"If you still blame Nader for what happened, you have lost all credibility." SusanCalvin Oct 2015 #210

Also, I AM worrying about the middle east. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #39

200,000 registered democrats voted for Bush in Florida, 2000. Scootaloo Oct 2015 #184

You are then in the minority. FarPoint Oct 2015 #301

A very snide response to a very thoughtful post. THIS is how people in the REAL WORLD are thinking sabrina 1 Oct 2015 #12

^^THIS^^ passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #152

K&R (and saving for later) /nt demwing Oct 2015 #2

I wish I didn't agree with you olddots Oct 2015 #4

Right? It would be much easier if I didn't feel this way. Nt F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #20

Can you spell out what exactly is Sanders' thoughts on drug legalisation? truedelphi Oct 2015 #89

Oddly enough, I have had a hard time finding that out. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #99

Here you go: Fawke Em Oct 2015 #122

"I support Sanders because he might open up the discussion some" passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #158

on medical mj he is good questionseverything Oct 2015 #162

I hear you ibegurpard Oct 2015 #5

Good OP that makes you think, but I agree with this post LettuceSea Oct 2015 #9

Yes, and I get that... F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #13

Are you ready for a couple more Scalia's on the court? TexasProgresive Oct 2015 #15

Eh, I have few worries about the supreme court. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #22

Your last line sounds remarkably kimmiesque TexasProgresive Oct 2015 #38

I'm afraid I don't get the reference. Nt F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #40

Kim Davis would say, "the rule of law cannot be supreme " TexasProgresive Oct 2015 #44

Ah, yes. I get it now. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #56

peaceful protest is what gets things done passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #161

Egomania is not pretty HERVEPA Oct 2015 #213

Not voting only benefits Republicans. BlueWaveDem Oct 2015 #7

That is true. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #18

You need to look into her agenda. BlueWaveDem Oct 2015 #41

I have, believe me. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #48

She has always been a fighter. BlueWaveDem Oct 2015 #58

I disagree with that. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #66

Fighting for women and children overseas Left Ear Oct 2015 #188

Many of her issues are copycat issues that she followed Bernie on passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #168

Yes, her agenda seems to be improving with Bernie's candidacy. n/t senz Oct 2015 #182

Another call for folks to stay home on DU. JoePhilly Oct 2015 #8

Never. I will never tell someone not to vote. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #24

Supporters of a Solidly Scaliafied Supreme Court Salute Similar Sentiments. oasis Oct 2015 #10

It's the Supreme Court angryvet Oct 2015 #11

Just 'a Democrat' isn't good enough. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2015 #28

Bill Clinton nominated the 2 most liberal justices on SCOTUS. BlueWaveDem Oct 2015 #43

The 2 most liberal justices CURRENTLY SITTING. beerandjesus Oct 2015 #68

Yes, thank you! Nt F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #74

I agree with what you said about Sanders probable SCOTUS nominees but . . . brush Oct 2015 #78

Have you read the Terms of Service for this website oberliner Oct 2015 #14

Out of the hundreds of other shady posts, you chose to blast that on this OP? LettuceSea Oct 2015 #23

Can't hurt to remind folks of the DU Terms of Service oberliner Oct 2015 #200

I am very aware of that, thank you. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #27

You are welcome oberliner Oct 2015 #201

Hahahaha, the "friendly" TOS reminder! beerandjesus Oct 2015 #47

It is quite friendly oberliner Oct 2015 #203

Well said MoveIt Oct 2015 #309

tos can only apply to du restorefreedom Oct 2015 #65

That is true oberliner Oct 2015 #204

since i try not to think too far ahead restorefreedom Oct 2015 #214

you do realize General Election season does not begin until after the Democratic Primary ? azurnoir Oct 2015 #115

Yes, indeed oberliner Oct 2015 #205

yuck yuck yuck 840high Oct 2015 #123

What an odd response. Bobbie Jo Oct 2015 #142

We don't have a nominee yet - so I'm tired 840high Oct 2015 #191

It will be fun when we are all on the same side oberliner Oct 2015 #208

who will clean the long knives? reddread Oct 2015 #269

Since the OP is advocating for Bernie passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #170

There is no threat oberliner Oct 2015 #199

Since the OP did not break the TOS, there was no need to post them passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #202

There really isn't a need to post anything oberliner Oct 2015 #206

You are being disingenouis about why you posted it here and now passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #221

Here's why I posted it oberliner Oct 2015 #233

I don't think he was being disingenous. The OP stated that he would not vote for Hillary in the GE brush Oct 2015 #255

Using the TOS that way is authoritarian. senz Oct 2015 #207

No it's not oberliner Oct 2015 #209

... senz Oct 2015 #215

I understand your argument oberliner Oct 2015 #234

b...b...but the RULES say you have to back MY candidate! Jester Messiah Oct 2015 #270

Bingo. GoneFishin Oct 2015 #271

None of this should be in bold as NONE of it hughee99 Oct 2015 #295

Well said. To me, Bernie is acceptable. Hillary isn't. Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2015 #16

So who will you vote for? brush Oct 2015 #25

Bernie if nominated. Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2015 #29

A republican? brush Oct 2015 #30

Nope. Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2015 #33

It will never cease to amaze me you think socialists will vote Republican. Nt F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #42

Not voting or voting 3rd party is voting for a republican brush Oct 2015 #52

Wrong. Voting 3rd party is not voting for a Republican or Democrat. Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2015 #83

Ok, if you say so. Just consider this: The important thing to do is to get a Dem . . . brush Oct 2015 #108

I don't buy the "Not as bad" ploy of the Decaf Democrats. Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2015 #114

The purpose really is to get Democrats elected. Look it up. brush Oct 2015 #118

I have the archaic notion that my vote belongs to me, to use as I wish. Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2015 #120

Use it how you want brush Oct 2015 #132

I always complain about politcians no matter what party. Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2015 #138

We are not putting up with that crap anymore. You cannot bully us into voting for liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #139

Like I care. brush Oct 2015 #146

Bernie or bust? BlueWaveDem Oct 2015 #72

No. If Bernie doesn't get the nomination I'll vote for someone even more progressive than he is. Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2015 #81

Someone who has no chance of appointing SCOTUS? BlueWaveDem Oct 2015 #91

Ridiculous. Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2015 #98

Solidarity wins elections. BlueWaveDem Oct 2015 #102

Good. I'm in solidarity with progressives. Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2015 #106

After reading some posts on another site passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #175

Thanks for highlighting the willingness workinclasszero Oct 2015 #224

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Oct 2015 #17

So you will vote for who? brush Oct 2015 #26

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Oct 2015 #37

ditto for me restorefreedom Oct 2015 #69

+100 840high Oct 2015 #124

As both a Sandernista and a socialist also, Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2015 #21

Yes, exactly. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #31

Thought full n/t FlatBaroque Oct 2015 #32

Lesser of two evils HassleCat Oct 2015 #34

When is your limit? F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #45

No limit HassleCat Oct 2015 #49

And that is the difference between you and me, quite simply. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #62

I think that's where most of the Chris Hedges-type progressives are at. It sounds like you and they ancianita Oct 2015 #285

Remember this: Kim Davis is a "Democrat." Fawke Em Oct 2015 #127

Actually, she switched to the GOP a few weeks ago in one of her passive agressive press conferences. FSogol Oct 2015 #136

I see. Fawke Em Oct 2015 #228

I used to knock on a lot of doors for local Democrats and once came across an FSogol Oct 2015 #235

WAS a Democrat. Blue_In_AK Oct 2015 #149

Then you will always be given a Hitler or Stalin Honeylies Oct 2015 #190

Yes, it's a quandry HassleCat Oct 2015 #211

Lesser of two evils argument is getting old. HooptieWagon Oct 2015 #60

It's not an argument HassleCat Oct 2015 #67

Yes, it's an argument. HooptieWagon Oct 2015 #80

A couple possibilities HassleCat Oct 2015 #109

And Bernie represents option 1. HooptieWagon Oct 2015 #156

Agree. haikugal Oct 2015 #187

a freakin men. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #76

Because some of us are sick and tired of being played for suckers. beerandjesus Oct 2015 #63

+1. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Right now, I don't think I'll come to it. n/t winter is coming Oct 2015 #96

No one is asking for fealty pledges for Hillary in the primary brush Oct 2015 #256

I know I will NOT be able to vote for Clinton if Sanders fails... YabaDabaNoDinoNo Oct 2015 #36

Why wait? BlueWaveDem Oct 2015 #46

What's your hurry? Besides even if I did right now I could still post here. YabaDabaNoDinoNo Oct 2015 #53

"Friendly TOS reminder" in 3... 2.... 1........ beerandjesus Oct 2015 #75

Maybe he/she is waiting to see who wins the nomination. senz Oct 2015 #195

The DNC Wants You! To Vote For Hillary! NonMetro Oct 2015 #280

The DNC can KMA! YabaDabaNoDinoNo Oct 2015 #300

You have to vote your conscience. DemocratSinceBirth Oct 2015 #50

Point taken and recieved. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #70

I have been pro glbtq rights from the jump, long before it was cool... DemocratSinceBirth Oct 2015 #86

Truth. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #107

I start from the proposition that most politicians are trimmers. DemocratSinceBirth Oct 2015 #112

A good way to do it... F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #119

IN terms of that and otehr issues of rights, Clinton would at least... Armstead Oct 2015 #54

Fair enough. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #82

Detested puma in 2008 and I detest in now. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #55

I have never felt represented by the Party. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #85

I respect your honesty but i am being honest when i say I don't respect your choice. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #95

That would depend entirely on the quality of their arguments. beerandjesus Oct 2015 #113

I don't respect it whatever their reason is. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #116

I would say voting is an intimate, personal, and sacred right and I respect their right liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #147

Sure but expect responses when you a nnounce your opinion. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #150

That's what the ignore button is for. liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #151

No that is what discussion is for. Besides i like the op. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #153

I haven't put you on ignore yet have I? I don't put everyone on ignore. liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #154

Do what you feel you need to do. I think it is worth discussing without using ignore. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #155

+1,000,000 Dawson Leery Oct 2015 #141

I live in a blue state, my non vote for Clinton probably won't matter much. m-lekktor Oct 2015 #57

I'm going to shoot myself in the heart instead of in the foot. valerief Oct 2015 #59

There's always the write-in vote. NorthCarolina Oct 2015 #64

If it comes to that, I think many will. Nt F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #90

Yep, enough NorthCarolina Oct 2015 #94

If Hillary is the nominee, that is my intention. n/t Chan790 Oct 2015 #97

Great post, and I wish the national Democratic Party would get this message beerandjesus Oct 2015 #73

Thanks for letting us know. MineralMan Oct 2015 #77

The question for me is whether legitimizing the system does me more harm than good. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #92

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Oct 2015 #101

How the election affects me, personally, doesn't really MineralMan Oct 2015 #103

I did not mean to imply it was only me I am thinking about. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #121

Fine, as long as you are willing to live with the consequences emulatorloo Oct 2015 #84

let's think about this for a minute strategically restorefreedom Oct 2015 #87

The threat of what Republicans would bring compaired to Hillary olddots Oct 2015 #88

the few dozen thousand activist party members have never been the issue MisterP Oct 2015 #110

The over-the-top anti-Clinton rhetoric from Bernistas suggests many of them... Nitram Oct 2015 #111

Well said. n/t FSogol Oct 2015 #140

Sorry but DonCoquixote Oct 2015 #117

Sorry but there is o comparison between Bush and Clinton. Nitram Oct 2015 #306

I did not deny one was better than the other DonCoquixote Oct 2015 #307

You're right. I apologize for my emotional reaction. Nitram Oct 2015 #308

Anyone who won't vote for someone because he isn't an identical twin . . . DrBulldog Oct 2015 #125

It is called self preservation and pragatimisn. Just because you don't like Hillary does not mean Todays_Illusion Oct 2015 #126

those of us who are democrats on DemocraticUnderground will miss you after the convention :-) nt msongs Oct 2015 #128

No, you have to vote zentrum Oct 2015 #130

I suspect that Clinton's ties to the religious right Blue_In_AK Oct 2015 #131

I thought that too. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #135

I will, thank you. Blue_In_AK Oct 2015 #157

The Professional Left did this in 2008. Dawson Leery Oct 2015 #134

The professional left Pantagruelsmember Oct 2015 #160

It was 300,000 registered Democrats in FL who though that Bush was better than Gore n/t eridani Oct 2015 #253

There may be more lefties than you think ish of the hammer Oct 2015 #164

I will never vote for Hillary Clinton. liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #143

Counter argument. Angela Davis voted for Obama. First time she ever voted for a major party McCamy Taylor Oct 2015 #144

To be honest, I'm not sure I get your point in this context. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #148

Thank you for writing this diary ish of the hammer Oct 2015 #159

If I still believe in Socialism I wouldn't vote for her or Sanders ismnotwasm Oct 2015 #163

May I ask why not? F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #217

So if the Hillary people all decide to sit it out if Bernie wins, that's okay with you? pnwmom Oct 2015 #165

If they have good reasons, I will respect that. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #219

Why would you doubt they would? pnwmom Oct 2015 #226

Because voting for a Republican is insane. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #229

They might just choose not to vote at all, like you. I don't know why you expect pnwmom Oct 2015 #241

I always vote. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #242

Do you live in a swing state TexasBushwhacker Oct 2015 #166

No, I do not. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #220

"Because there's not a dime's worth of difference between Al Gore and George Bush" greenman3610 Oct 2015 #167

As socialists, our responsibility is to strengthening our class to advance to greater goals. Starry Messenger Oct 2015 #169

"back to square one, circa 1980." I think manny here don't realize how fucking god awful that was. bettyellen Oct 2015 #197

I see this the same way. Starry Messenger Oct 2015 #247

As a woman I have seen our rights stripped away.... Often men forget that and think the gamble is bettyellen Oct 2015 #290

lol. i am queer and gay married and i dont think you should use us as an excuse to not vote for HRC. La Lioness Priyanka Oct 2015 #172

An excuse? F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #222

yes. an excuse. a silly excuse too. nt La Lioness Priyanka Oct 2015 #303

I Too Am Sitting On The Fence... ChiciB1 Oct 2015 #173

DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA ABOUT THE DAMAGE THAT... Herman4747 Oct 2015 #177

IF Clinton should become our nominee and that is beginning to look doubtful, I'm certain my decision Purveyor Oct 2015 #180

Now who are the PUMA's this year? William769 Oct 2015 #183

Oh, you're the fellow who locked me out of the Hillary group on July 12. Hi! senz Oct 2015 #192

So again I ask, who are the PUMA's This year? William769 Oct 2015 #194

If Bernie gets the nomination Honeylies Oct 2015 #196

Went right over your head. Whoosh! senz Oct 2015 #198

No-one that I can see around HERE, William. sibelian Oct 2015 #225

Probably the people who run their own website so they can trash Sanders supporters. DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #238

Ah, no PUMA here. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #223

Similar feelings here. pa28 Oct 2015 #185

I will vote for her in 2016, if I must. Scootaloo Oct 2015 #186

I am not certain that as bad as a Cruz or a Trump might be F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #227

"I still have my white skin and all my other privileges"?. brush Oct 2015 #257

Um...yes? I have been open about it on this site. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #262

I really have nothing to say to you after that brush Oct 2015 #263

How is attempting to understand my own privilege F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #264

One: I'm a Sanders supporter. Two: I'm not going to tell anyone who to vote for. Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #189

I am 67 olddots Oct 2015 #231

I was talking to the OP, but okay. Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #260

Mega-left purity is as radical as the right wing insane tea party. Thanks for helping them. RBInMaine Oct 2015 #193

I couldn't do that for one reason: the crazy GOP. Vinca Oct 2015 #212

As we become adults we realize that the world doesn't revolve around us. Some I guess never grow up upaloopa Oct 2015 #216

This doesn't surprise me in the least workinclasszero Oct 2015 #218

Bernie has explicitly said he would not run a third party campaign. Fawke Em Oct 2015 #232

Uh huh workinclasszero Oct 2015 #236

Actually, Sanders isn't a liar; you may be confusing him with other candidates. DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #239

You could just say you are going to back a Republican candidate. Thinkingabout Oct 2015 #230

I think I might understand you. PatrickforO Oct 2015 #237

Food for thought F4lconF16 in line with your post... AOR Oct 2015 #240

I am saving this. Thank you very much for that. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #246

That's all good stuff but it's essentially just rhetoric since all this talk of 3rd parties . . . brush Oct 2015 #258

I think you missed the point... AOR Oct 2015 #265

I can't believe how many posts there are telling us who we have to vote for. liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #243

Good luck with that "ignore" stuff. Nobody cares. brush Oct 2015 #259

You cared enough to tell us no one cares. Fuddnik Oct 2015 #286

He/she pulled the same thing on me so I just wanted to let him/her know that being put on ignore brush Oct 2015 #296

I suspect that you might change your mind if it's Clinton vs someone from the Clown Car eridani Oct 2015 #248

Problem is that our car is already headed backwards, down a really big hill, with a cliff ahead. nt F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #249

+1. Very accurate description. liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #251

Both parties have been destroying this country since Reagan. It happens a little bit slower when liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #250

Guess you won't be here after Nov. then perhaps Socialist Underground... Historic NY Oct 2015 #252

It's not about YOU frazzled Oct 2015 #254

Well said! randome Oct 2015 #275

You have to vote Mrs. Clinton if she is the nominee. God help us if Trump is the nomnee! akbacchus_BC Oct 2015 #261

If you don't want to vote for the Democratic candidate... Lancero Oct 2015 #266

Sigh...yes, as I am aware, I will be silenced in the main forums F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #267

"The staff spell it out". Fuddnik Oct 2015 #288

This whole thread demonstrates the problem with the American political system davidn3600 Oct 2015 #268

What's that suppose to mean, you're going to vote for a mud flap for President? Good gawd. lonestarnot Oct 2015 #272

The 8 horrific years of the Bush/Cheney regime convinced me never to not vote Democrat. DCBob Oct 2015 #273

I can never vote GOP again.. I did vote for Reagan the first time... NEVER AGAIN.. We need for secondwind Oct 2015 #278

PLEASE VOTE FOR THE DEMOCRAT NOMINEE.... secondwind Oct 2015 #276

Well lah de dah and aren't you precious HelenWheels Oct 2015 #277

If Clinton wins, hold your nose and vote for her. mwooldri Oct 2015 #279

Really!? ashling Oct 2015 #281

Supreme Court mean anything to you? rosesaylavee Oct 2015 #282

Well 1st comes Bernie Sanders, 2nd Hillary Clinton, 3rd Joe Biden UCmeNdc Oct 2015 #283

I think it's a flawed position malthaussen Oct 2015 #284

Agree! UCmeNdc Oct 2015 #298

I have just one question for you. MH1 Oct 2015 #287

Yeah, you will vote for Hillary modestybl Oct 2015 #289

This message was self-deleted by its author olddots Oct 2015 #299

It's your vote and your right One of the 99 Oct 2015 #302

I simply can't think of a single reason why I should trust her. I would never hire her Zorra Oct 2015 #304

Thanks for the Supreme Court ... ronnykmarshall Oct 2015 #305

Well, I just heard a discussion of the Supreme Court on Charlie Rose last night... Gloria Oct 2015 #310

I have many of the same multitude of issues. You do the best you can. mmonk Oct 2015 #312

Thank you for sharing that. N/t azmom Oct 2015 #313

If she is the nominee, I may well end up not voting. closeupready Oct 2015 #314