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99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
70. That is such a transparently phony argument, primarily being made as a smokescreen
Thu Aug 6, 2015, 04:55 PM
Aug 2015

to provide cover for DWS's disgraceful handling of the Democratic debates,

If debates don't matter, then WHY is the DNC clamping down to only allow 6 of them?
and WHY are Sanders and O'Malley pissed about it?

oh and WHY does even the M$M admit that debates DO matter, a lot, in at least 10
instances. (And CNN doesn't even count Obama's "Please proceed Governor" moment)

1960 -- Kennedy vs. Nixon: First TV debate
Just having Kennedy on the same stage as an exerienced vice president made a difference for JFK because he could hold his own with Nixon. But then, of course, when it was listened to on the radio, it made it seem like it was pretty equal, and even some people giving an edge to Nixon. But he looked so terrible. His makeup was bad. He wasn't feeling well. He looked sallow, He looked scornful. And people just reacted to that image of a vigorous, young Kennedy, and an almost sick-looking Nixon. And from then on, somehow JFK became a figure.

1976 -- Carter vs. Ford: No Soviet domination of Eastern Europe?
Ford had done well in the first debate, but in the second debate he was asked a question about Soviet domination of Eastern Europe. And he answered it incomprehensibly. There was already a perception, a vulnerability, that he wasn't intelligent. And then this thing just got parodied, just got talked about, and became a huge event. When ordinary people watched that debate, they didn't feel the Ford had screwed up. But when it was pointed out, that he didn't understand what was happening in the Cold War in Eastern Europe, then suddenly they had shifted their minds, and he seemed much worse than it had seemed at that moment.

1980 -- Reagan vs. Carter: 'There you go again'
In 1980, Carter was primed to go after Reagan about his record, especially on Medicare. He was going on the offensive: 'You did this! You voted this way! You said that!' And Reagan, just with humor and subtlety, said, 'There you go again.' And it somehow relaxed Reagan and it took the offensive away from Carter. It was a brilliant answer to a really serious critique of Reagan's past that might have been troubling for him.

1980 -- Reagan vs. Carter: 'Are you better off now than you were four years ago?'
There was no more brilliant closing than Reagan's 'Are you better off now than you were four years ago?' What it did was to make people think, 'Yes. That's what's happened to me. My economic life, my family life, my working life, has been hurt by the economy over these last four years.' And once they realized that, it almost gave a poster to the entire campaign. It wasn't just a great moment in the debate, it became a theme encapsulated in just a few sentences. And in the end saying, 'if you are better off, then you vote for Mr. Carter. If you're not, you do have another choice. Me,' And at the same time, Carter gave a very weak closing statement.

1984 -- Mondale vs. Reagan: 'I will not exploit ... my opponent's youth and inexperience'
In the first debate between Reagan and Mondale, Reagan had appeared old. He was the oldest candidate in history at that time. He seemed confused by some of the questions, his answers had wandered, and the issue of age really became a large question among the press. So when he comes back in the second debate, and they ask him, 'Do you think age is a problem?' He had that answer prepared, and boy did he nail it. It was subtle, it was humorous, and Mondale knew, he said right then, that he had not only lost the debate, but probably the election.

1988 -- Dukakis vs. George H.W. Bush: 'If your wife, Kitty Dukakis, were raped and murdered?'
The question asked to Michael Dukakis in 1988 was a difficult one. I mean, 'What would you do, given your feelings about the death penalty, if your wife, Kitty Dukakis, were raped and murdered?' And what you would've expected might have been a home run, where Dukakis would've said, 'I would've wanted to kill that person who murdered my wife. But we have a country of laws and that would be wrong.' But instead, he answered in a policy-wonkish way about the death penalty that underscored a vulnerability that he already seemed to be without emotion and without passion.

1988 -- Bentsen vs. Quayle: 'You're no Jack Kennedy'
During the campaign, Quayle had already been saying many times that he had as much experience as Jack Kennedy did, so Bentsen was primed for that and when he mentioned it again in the debate, I'm sure Bentsen was saying 'Yay! Here comes my line!' And again, Quayle handled it OK and said it probably wasn't called for but it was such a zinger of a line that people loved it and told one another about it and it became the line of that debate.

1992 -- George H.W. Bush looks at his watch
It looked like he was bored, that he didn't care about the debate and that underscored the feeling that he wasn't connected to the problems of the people and the country. He later said when he was looking he was looking at his watch he was thinking, 'I hate these debates, I'm so glad it's almost over.' In that debate Clinton showed his empathy -- he was wandering around the stage. He talked to the people, almost wrapped their arms around them. The debate format in that year was perfect for Clinton because they could wander away from the microphones. When Bush is seen stiffly to be looking at his watch and seemed not engaged, and not connected, it underscored Clinton's enormous capacity to emotionally connect.

1992 -- Stockdale vs. Gore vs. Quayle: 'Who am I? Why am I here?'
When Perot had chosen Stockdale as his , Stockdale appeared to in that debate to be stunned; he almost didn't seem to belong there. He looked like an observer of the other two candidates and that was underlined when he said, 'Who am I, what am I doing here?' What it underscored was a problem of judgment on Perot's part -- how could he have chosen somebody who himself was wondering, 'Why am I here?' It made no sense to the audience and it hurt Perot's credibility as a presidential candidate.


2000 -- Al Gore sighs
Focus groups right after Al Gore and George W. Bush debated seemed to give a slight edge to Gore because he was more articulate, he had better answers, but once the television cameras caught that sighing, that constant look on his face where he seemed annoyed by the whole idea of having to be there with Bush, it seemed to underscore, as somebody said, as a teacher's pet who knew all the answers but was annoying and irritating. And they kept playing it over and over again and it became parodies on the comedy shows and late night TV. Then people began to project onto Gore a personality trait of just annoyance and irritation of people in general and it became devastating for him to live that down.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/02/politics/debate-moments-that-mattered/

If only that were the only thing it does. It also keeps us from debating each other. jwirr Aug 2015 #1
Starting is October gives plenty of time for that, and will focus on the insanity that is the still_one Aug 2015 #54
Additionally, how much time does someone need to make a decision? brooklynite Aug 2015 #95
How many people are even going to watch 6 debates between a handful of candidates? pnwmom Aug 2015 #71
And the last two debates ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #2
Failed? But that, to them, *is* success. Beartracks Aug 2015 #57
... and AFTER some of the primaries have already been held. NOT brilliant. Scuba Aug 2015 #93
Again ... Those voters have access to TVs to watch the 4 preceeding Debates. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #94
So why have any more then? Scuba Aug 2015 #99
How so ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #100
These debates are for the Democratic voters to pick our candidates. You must be ... Scuba Aug 2015 #101
??? n/t 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #102
If you don't understand these basics, why are you posting in this thread? Scuba Aug 2015 #103
I didn't understand what YOU were attempting to say ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #105
I re-read the sub-thread, and what I wrote in response to you is very clear. Scuba Aug 2015 #106
To you, maybe ... but then, you wrote it. Everything I write, I understand ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #107
Exactly. Let then vie for Media attention between each other. Let them spout all the idiocy the DEMs misterhighwasted Aug 2015 #3
Just tagging on to your comment: How does limiting the number of debates work into an optimal plan? erronis Aug 2015 #55
Check out the reaction and ratings of the last few debates 8 years ago. George II Aug 2015 #63
Answer: by allowing the candidates to campaign... brooklynite Aug 2015 #96
We do not have to follow what the clown car does,we can work our primary the intelligent way Thinkingabout Aug 2015 #4
The GOP bring up bullshit issues, the Dems can destroy them MADem Aug 2015 #5
The voters will be completely sold on Republican ideas before we even begin our debates. JDPriestly Aug 2015 #28
Everyone's at the beach--no one save the already committed will be seriously watching this train MADem Aug 2015 #34
Exactly, not many people are seriously thinking about presidential politics this time of year.... George II Aug 2015 #44
One or two hours every five or six weeks is going to "sell" republican ideas? George II Aug 2015 #42
Only if you're open to Republican ideas. greatauntoftriplets Aug 2015 #64
We learn through repetition. They are getting in a lot more repetition of their ideologie and JDPriestly Aug 2015 #77
You've got 17 clowns sniping at each other every chance they get, and tonight probably won't be.... George II Aug 2015 #78
And all 17 of them will repeat the same basic conservative mantra with small differences. JDPriestly Aug 2015 #79
Mantra is one thing, substance is another - and it will be sorely lacking in substance. George II Aug 2015 #80
Yes. But the substanceless claptrap will be repeated over and over, and that is how it is JDPriestly Aug 2015 #85
+1000% on your thoughts in this discussion mazzarro Aug 2015 #108
Yes, it is brilliant to schedule 33% of the debates for after 16 states have already voted. jeff47 Aug 2015 #6
^^ This. winter is coming Aug 2015 #8
jeff, you're makin WAY too much sense, but it's a non-starter, as DWS is running interference for Hillary. Anyone who thinks the system isn't rigged is just fooling themselves... InAbLuEsTaTe Aug 2015 #12
Well, I hope you are happy. Vattel Aug 2015 #20
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2015 #23
That sounds an awful lot like fairness and sensibility! arcane1 Aug 2015 #30
jeff47 for Chairman. I'd help fund that campaign. Ed Suspicious Aug 2015 #39
Not gonna happen for a very long time. I'd piss off all the "insiders". (nt) jeff47 Aug 2015 #53
They need to put you in charge. Juicy_Bellows Aug 2015 #49
Thanks (nt) jeff47 Aug 2015 #52
All of the people who like the schedule are also in favor of Doctor_J Aug 2015 #76
So much what you said - I don't agree with my close friends this much. Juicy_Bellows Aug 2015 #83
Smart move by the DNC. Give the Clowns plenty of rope misterhighwasted Aug 2015 #7
Rope does no good without a push. We are only providing wishful thinking that a push will appear. jeff47 Aug 2015 #10
I can understand waiting awhile to let repubs make fools of themselves but..... n8dogg83 Aug 2015 #9
The republicans are running against each other, 17 of them, not Democrats yet.... George II Aug 2015 #47
So you honestly don't think that the next few debates, which will be.... n8dogg83 Aug 2015 #62
This strategy will work out well. oasis Aug 2015 #11
It isn't Brilliant. kenfrequed Aug 2015 #13
It's not 'brilliant' if you live in IA, NH, SC, NV, AL, AR, CO, GA, MA, MN, NC, OK, TN, TX, VT or VA 99th_Monkey Aug 2015 #14
In twenty five years of voting Blue_Adept Aug 2015 #36
If there are any debates that change murielm99 Aug 2015 #40
You can't really measure that, the effect debates have on voter preference. I can't say I've Ed Suspicious Aug 2015 #41
So you think 'debates are useless' ? You are a poll of ONE person 99th_Monkey Aug 2015 #58
Debates are not going to change anyone's mind. It won't change my mind, nor your mind. n/t Lil Missy Aug 2015 #67
That is such a transparently phony argument, primarily being made as a smokescreen 99th_Monkey Aug 2015 #70
Hats off to the spin masters for finding a 'reason' for stifling democratic debate tk2kewl Aug 2015 #15
+100 nt 99th_Monkey Aug 2015 #16
Amazing, just amazing. nt Snotcicles Aug 2015 #19
They sure do have a bag of tricks that would make Felix the cat envious. nt. Juicy_Bellows Aug 2015 #86
Absolute whatchamacallit Aug 2015 #17
This message was self-deleted by its author DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #18
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2015 #26
You don't get to tell me where to stand. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #29
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2015 #75
grate job DWS. stonecutter357 Aug 2015 #21
we saw what delaying or failure to promote answers to republican charges did to the Kerry campaign bigtree Aug 2015 #22
If Hillary stumbles early on, ... aggiesal Aug 2015 #68
I would change a few words DonCoquixote Aug 2015 #109
Right. DWS is simply brilliant. LiberalAndProud Aug 2015 #24
Wish we had Howard Dean back! maddiemom Aug 2015 #65
Or someone like him, yes. LiberalAndProud Aug 2015 #69
Seems like a coincidence that only Clinton supporters are for this. bobbobbins01 Aug 2015 #25
To the last one it seems whatchamacallit Aug 2015 #31
100 to 1? Juicy_Bellows Aug 2015 #50
weird frylock Aug 2015 #46
haha... quickesst Aug 2015 #74
Maybe they should just have a twitter debate then. bobbobbins01 Aug 2015 #88
Sounds good to me quickesst Aug 2015 #90
The DNC debate schedule is stupid. JDPriestly Aug 2015 #27
No one votes until February Gothmog Aug 2015 #35
Just brilliant. Ed Suspicious Aug 2015 #45
They are only planning six debates. JDPriestly Aug 2015 #92
The schedule is devised entirely to hide Hillary. even her supporters know that her Doctor_J Aug 2015 #91
Just proves how weak Hillary is as a presidential candidate... TheProgressive Aug 2015 #32
This is a great debate schedule and allows the early states to have a voice Gothmog Aug 2015 #33
So great! whatchamacallit Aug 2015 #37
Because early states never had a voice before. jeff47 Aug 2015 #43
Does someone have a link to the schedule? I'm not watching TV today. northoftheborder Aug 2015 #38
Weren't these the same folks who said "avoid Obama" in the mid-term elections? jalan48 Aug 2015 #48
That it protects Hillary from challengers is probably only a coincidence. Lol. aikoaiko Aug 2015 #51
So are you saying by letting the republicans make asses out of themselves for the next 8 weeks, that still_one Aug 2015 #61
Too many Democratic primary votes happen before the first debate aikoaiko Aug 2015 #66
They have almost 3 months before the first primaries, including debates in those first primary still_one Aug 2015 #73
Sorry. I did have the schedule wrong although it does help the front runner aikoaiko Aug 2015 #81
I am sorry, what is the IIRC? I assume it is the DNC rules of some sort. Are they binding, and why still_one Aug 2015 #82
Six debates among a handful of candidates gives them all plenty of time pnwmom Aug 2015 #72
Bear With Me.....I am going somewhere here. cynzke Aug 2015 #56
Haha whatchamacallit Aug 2015 #60
Voters deserve to have as much information as possible about the candidates. Maedhros Aug 2015 #59
Wait you're serious? ibegurpard Aug 2015 #84
Yep... It's Rigged For Hillary... Why Woundn't One Be Entusiastic ??? WillyT Aug 2015 #87
It's Rigged For Hillary stonecutter357 Aug 2015 #89
To those who worry that the later start to Dem debates is letting the GOP "get their message out" brooklynite Aug 2015 #97
Whenever the people are well informed, they can be trusted with their own government Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2015 #98
hillary can't have people well informed about her restorefreedom Aug 2015 #110
When your opponents are self-destructing, why interfere. Prepare, observe, take notes, but RKP5637 Aug 2015 #104
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