2016 Postmortem

TwilightZone

(25,472 posts)

53. There is nothing more hypothetical then making vague assertions about the future.

Reply to hellofromreddit (Reply #46)

Mon Dec 5, 2016, 01:12 AM

Dec 2016

We need to beat up our candidates more! Yeah!

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A candidate that gets "damaged" by a primary run has no business anywhere near the GE. [View all] hellofromreddit Dec 2016 OP

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #1

Every candidate in every election who has an opponent is "damaged" in the primaries. TwilightZone Dec 2016 #2

Obama vs. Clinton. Obama came out stronger than ever. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #5

Field test are just that. Lochloosa Dec 2016 #3

Problem was Bernie was not field-tested -not-reeeeeeally-vetted!! Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #7

Hillary didn't have the number for the nomination until June Omaha Steve Dec 2016 #9

AhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhtheMathAhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhH Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #11

Wasn't that what Hillary was supposed to do? Really vet and field-test him? The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #19

No she was supposed to go for the primary win AND make sure to not lose Bernie's supporters Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #24

Oh, piffle. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #28

Yes! You're right! Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #29

The "Or Bust" crowd is only happy when they are trashing Hillary or Democrats. LonePirate Dec 2016 #32

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #58

How dare he awoke_in_2003 Dec 2016 #124

He did not create Hillary's real problems as a candidate. He did not participate in the hype either. Ford_Prefect Dec 2016 #23

Real problems? Most are fake? You know who has real problems!??? Trump. Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #25

Switch the focus rather than answer the question much? Ford_Prefect Dec 2016 #31

Trump: Words are fake! promises are fake! Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #34

Astute commentary 90-percent Dec 2016 #113

+1000. nt awoke_in_2003 Dec 2016 #125

This message was self-deleted by its author Buzz Clik Dec 2016 #130

Not relevant. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #35

Okee! Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #38

The real problem was, Bernie refused to engage Hillary on the emails problem BlueProgressive Dec 2016 #82

Thanks for this post. PoindexterOglethorpe Dec 2016 #4

Yup. sfwriter Dec 2016 #6

Destiny? Begabig Dec 2016 #112

Ding! A-Schwarzenegger Dec 2016 #8

Thank you! jimlup Dec 2016 #10

So, we can put to rest the "Sanders would have won" bullshit. baldguy Dec 2016 #12

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #16

First of all, Clinton got 2.5 million more votes than Trump. baldguy Dec 2016 #26

Along with "Blame Sanders." Orsino Dec 2016 #135

See #26 baldguy Dec 2016 #172

Can we please put this issue to rest!!! tom_kelly Dec 2016 #13

And now we see what happens when someone isn't even redlined. Hillary was not really hit that bad Exilednight Dec 2016 #14

Excellent point, Exilednight! Folks don't see this at all, though. Blamers gotta blame. JudyM Dec 2016 #43

Unlike HRC in 08 awoke_in_2003 Dec 2016 #127

YES! +10000 TXCritter Dec 2016 #15

I think the Primary made Secretary Clinton stronger, not weaker elmac Dec 2016 #17

zi don't blame the primary, Bernie, or anyone else associatedd with the nomination. napi21 Dec 2016 #18

Sanders caused Hillary to be a BETTER candidate. Warren DeMontague Dec 2016 #20

Don't you remember how they didn't need us GummyBearz Dec 2016 #169

Some I know are not only blaming Sanders but everything he represents. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #21

He represents awoke_in_2003 Dec 2016 #128

Bingo. He talks the way Democrats talked before Reagan.... Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #148

Wish I could rec your reply. nt awoke_in_2003 Dec 2016 #155

Hear, hear. LS_Editor Dec 2016 #22

The Democratic Party is doing this? murielm99 Dec 2016 #45

Ah, I see. Republican behavor reflects on the Republican Party, but the reverse is not true for... LS_Editor Dec 2016 #174

You have not proven anything. n/t murielm99 Dec 2016 #175

Right. Because a significant number of Democrats here haven't been scapegoating Bernie Sanders. LS_Editor Dec 2016 #176

Bernie is out grave dancing. murielm99 Dec 2016 #177

Thank you for confirming my point. Hate the man who acts more like a Democrat. LS_Editor Dec 2016 #178

Nailed it! Nt LostOne4Ever Dec 2016 #27

I don't think someone understands the concept of Democrats nominating a Democrat LonePirate Dec 2016 #30

Yeah, I don't. Because it's nonsense. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #37

Bernie was soundly defeated in the open primary system you advocate. LonePirate Dec 2016 #42

I eagerly await the day you make a point instead of arguing hypotheticals. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #46

There is nothing more hypothetical then making vague assertions about the future. TwilightZone Dec 2016 #53

Do you sharpen your knives with stones or pillows? hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #54

I eagerly await the day you acknowledge facts instead of embracing fantasy. LonePirate Dec 2016 #114

The current primary system is flawed. hay rick Dec 2016 #52

Sanders should never have allowed to run in our party. Period. The end. Tarheel_Dem Dec 2016 #33

Why? hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #40

Because he cared more about himself than the Democratic party. SunSeeker Dec 2016 #71

Oh Bullshit. progressoid Dec 2016 #84

They were nothing like his primary rallies. They were not huge rallies. SunSeeker Dec 2016 #86

Its funny. During the primaries we kept getting told that Bernie's huge rallies didn't mean anything progressoid Dec 2016 #89

I never said his rallies were meaningless. Please stop making shit up. nt. SunSeeker Dec 2016 #90

No, but it was a common meme on DU from the Clinton camp to mock them. progressoid Dec 2016 #91

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #96

Well, do you agree or not? If you think they were meaningful, then he probably should have done boston bean Dec 2016 #109

I see you just don't want to address want I actually said. nt SunSeeker Dec 2016 #133

I see you just don't want to address want I actually said. nt SunSeeker Dec 2016 #132

Thank you, SunSeeker for getting the gd facts out there. Cha Dec 2016 #93

Because she was such a strong candidate, it was vital she have no real competition Warren DeMontague Dec 2016 #41

You got it. Makes sense in Bizarro world. JudyM Dec 2016 #44

A candidate that is besmirching the entire party and it's members who vote "estabishment" boston bean Dec 2016 #103

Thats certainly one narrative. Warren DeMontague Dec 2016 #107

It was his never ending and still ongoing criticisms of the party boston bean Dec 2016 #108

If you think we should have a rule excluding independents from running in our primaries, Warren DeMontague Dec 2016 #171

You'd prefer left-leaning members of our coalition ran as third parties? Gore1FL Dec 2016 #118

Yeah i would since many seem to think it would draw republican white middle class voters. boston bean Dec 2016 #120

What? Help me understand... Yurovsky Dec 2016 #122

What i am saying is the argument for bernie was his ability to speak to white workong class. boston bean Dec 2016 #123

Working Class had been historically good for the Democrats. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #137

Hillary won the working class. but hey, we can all pretend she didn't.... boston bean Dec 2016 #139

Dividing the left up tp protect weak candidates is a losing cause. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #142

Why divided who?? boston bean Dec 2016 #143

You are suggesting that the divisions on the left be represented by multiple parties instead of one. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #149

I prefer to win future elections over finding scapegoats for the last. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #134

what you call scapegoats and offer a lifeline to are what I call boston bean Dec 2016 #136

I voted for Sanders in the nomination phase and Clinton in the GE. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #138

None of the above. Why do you ask. We are discussing people who voted for trump m boston bean Dec 2016 #145

We are discussing closing out people on the left. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #150

I suggest you follow along in the thread. boston bean Dec 2016 #157

I have been. If you haven't noticed, I've been disagreeing with you on party building. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #166

This message was self-deleted by its author Gore1FL Dec 2016 #165

That's how it works in the U.S. We have 2 dominant parties and build our coalitions in advance. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #117

Quite frankly my dear, I didn't give two shits what Sanders did/does, except use our party like.... Tarheel_Dem Dec 2016 #164

I agree. I think there should be a period of at least three years beforehand where you have to be stevenleser Dec 2016 #161

And returned to the US Senate, not as a Democrat, but as an Independent. I don't get it. Tarheel_Dem Dec 2016 #163

This message was self-deleted by its author LongtimeAZDem Dec 2016 #36

No problem with what you say, just ready to move on. The Primary is over, the election is over. We Alekzander Dec 2016 #39

This is the Postmortem Forum Blue Shoes Dec 2016 #48

If we don't figure out how we fucked up this time Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #79

I know, big mistakes were made & we must learn what they are to avoid them in the future. Actually, Alekzander Dec 2016 #111

It wasn't just about Hillary. NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #47

But, but...the most vetted candidate in history wasn't vetted enough! TwilightZone Dec 2016 #55

How would vetting foretell Comey violating the Hatch Act twice with unprecedented letters? SunSeeker Dec 2016 #87

Sorry, I was being sarcastic. TwilightZone Dec 2016 #119

Hillary was in charge of her campaign and her loss is her own. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #57

We'll never know ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #59

A party that can't handle criticism in politics? Might as well complain about poo at the zoo. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #61

Sander's strategy was a huge political fail.. JHan Dec 2016 #72

Lying about what? NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #74

Well, aren't you cute. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #75

You accused me of "lying" ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #77

Thanks Nance.. That's right. Hillary nor Obama did not say the Dem Cha Dec 2016 #65

Ah, a gun control graphic. How fitting. appal_jack Dec 2016 #73

Didn't Trump say "Vote for me, and I'll fix the GOP?" MADem Dec 2016 #62

Yes, he did. NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #68

This election was not about Hillary or Sanders Frances Dec 2016 #49

And whether our democracy would fail or not. hay rick Dec 2016 #64

Sorry, but Sanders was never a member of "the party" until.... George II Dec 2016 #50

Jesus Christ. How many votes do you think he would have pulled in the GE had he run 3rd party. JCanete Dec 2016 #88

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #97

I must have missed the part of the 2008 primary where Hillary, as her campaign burned around her,... SaschaHM Dec 2016 #51

Many don't want to admit to this though.. JHan Dec 2016 #66

Wait...was that an ad against democrats? Is that what you heard? That is an ad against our system. JCanete Dec 2016 #85

That's all well and good as long as people see the whole picture..not just what the media wants you judesedit Dec 2016 #56

It's a cruel world out there. hay rick Dec 2016 #60

Get real. Being "primaried" has never made any incumbent stronger, pnwmom Dec 2016 #63

Never? Get real. It made Obama stronger in 2008. He rocketed out of there and into the GE. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #67

Obama was a newcomer, not a known quantity like Hillary or an incumbent. pnwmom Dec 2016 #70

Ah, so never, but with a bunch of exceptions for every time you're wrong. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #76

Obama wasn't an exception. Don't you understand? In the 2008 campaign pnwmom Dec 2016 #80

Ah, I had assumed "incumbent" was a typo, seeing as we didn't have any this year. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #159

In terms of being a high profile, very well known and qualified candidate, pnwmom Dec 2016 #167

Incumbent means incumbent, not whatever you declare it to mean at your convenience. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #173

SoS is not the POTUS... Yurovsky Dec 2016 #95

K & R SammyWinstonJack Dec 2016 #69

Jerry Brown totally damaged (Bill) Clinton in '92. Tatiana Dec 2016 #78

She had way too many skeletons in the closet FreakinDJ Dec 2016 #81

She was 9 points ahead in the polls before James Comey pnwmom Dec 2016 #94

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #98

And some of them weren't fictitious. Orsino Dec 2016 #140

That's a ridiculous analogy, sorry. ucrdem Dec 2016 #83

Hillary did win the primaries DFW Dec 2016 #92

Then you must wasn't the opp research file on Sanders released BainsBane Dec 2016 #99

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #100

She used nothing BainsBane Dec 2016 #101

Ah, the good old bullshitfirehose approach. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #104

Well, you confirm my point BainsBane Dec 2016 #106

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #131

Paragraph 1 score: -13 points. I did not read the rest. Better luck next time. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #158

You just perfectly described yourself. TwilightZone Dec 2016 #121

A candidate who runs a divisive bitter primary in an important year electorally...and lose the Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #102

That's absurd. Hell, every election is "The most important bla bla of our lifetime!" hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #105

With this post here, you seem to think DJT is just fine and dandy boston bean Dec 2016 #110

This message was self-deleted by its author Buzz Clik Dec 2016 #116

This message was self-deleted by its author Buzz Clik Dec 2016 #115

That does sound pretty dumb. I sure am glad I'm not the one saying it. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #160

So after the primary, the party should have nominated someone other than Hillary Clinton? liberal N proud Dec 2016 #126

This message was self-deleted by its author Buzz Clik Dec 2016 #129

For what? liberal N proud Dec 2016 #168

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #153

Usually, Democrats don't attack each other this much Nonhlanhla Dec 2016 #141

Bernie ran a negative campaign against Clinton portlander23 Dec 2016 #151

Here is a link for your reflection Nonhlanhla Dec 2016 #156

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #152

Agreed 100% Arazi Dec 2016 #144

Oh bullshit ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #146

And a Candidate that cannot win a primary also has no business anywhere NEAR A GE bravenak Dec 2016 #147

Sanders insulted the donor class. alarimer Dec 2016 #154

A candidate who lost by millions has no business anywhere near the GE. nt. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #162

So what we need to do is let the primary loser run Progressive dog Dec 2016 #170