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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: So Obama is hororing the war criminal who is Hillary's mentor. Is it OK with "Progressive"? [View all]Ghost Dog
(16,881 posts)80. Indonesia / East Timor
... General Suharto and his deputies made it fairly obvious that they wanted the territory but not the people. They came horribly close to succeeding in this foul design. Ever since, there has been an argument over the precise extent of US complicity with the 1975 aggression. It was known that President Gerald Ford and his Secretary of State, Henry Kissinger, were in Jakarta on December 6 of that year, the day before Indonesian air, land and naval forces launched the assault. Scholars and journalists have solemnly debated whether there was a "green light" from Washington.
Kissinger, who does not find room to mention East Timor even in the index of his three-volume memoir, has more than once stated that the invasion came to him as a surprise, and that he barely knew of the existence of the Timorese question. He was obviously lying. But the breathtaking extent of his mendacity has only just become fully apparent, with the declassification of a secret State Department telegram. The document, which has been made public by the National Security Archive at George Washington University, contains a verbatim record of the conversation among Suharto, Ford and Kissinger. "We want your understanding if we deem it necessary to take rapid or drastic action," Suharto opened bluntly. "We will understand and will not press you on the issue," Ford responded. "We understand the problem you have and the intentions you have." Kissinger was even more emphatic, but had an awareness of the possible "spin" problems back home. "It is important that whatever you do succeeds quickly," he instructed the despot. "We would be able to influence the reaction if whatever happens, happens after we return . If you have made plans, we will do our best to keep everyone quiet until the President returns home." Micromanaging things for Suharto, he added: "The President will be back on Monday at 2 pm Jakarta time. We understand your problem and the need to move quickly but I am only saying that it would be better if it were done after we returned." As ever, deniability supersedes accountability.
There came then the awkward question of weaponry. Indonesias armed forces, which had never yet lost a battle against civilians, were equipped with US-supplied matériel. But the Foreign Assistance Act forbade the use of such armaments except in self-defense. "It depends on how we construe it; whether it is in self-defense or is a foreign operation," Kissinger mused. (At a later meeting back at the State Department on December 18, the minutes of which have also been declassified, he was blunt about knowingly violating the statute. For a transcript of the minutes, see Mark Hertsgaard, "The Secret Life of Henry Kissinger," October 29, 1990.)
An even more sinister note was struck later in the conversation, when Kissinger asked Suharto if he expected "a long guerrilla war." The dictator replied that there "will probably be a small guerrilla war," while making no promise about its duration. Bear in mind that Kissinger has already urged speed and dispatch upon Suharto. Adam Malik, Indonesias foreign minister at the time, later conceded in public that between 50,000 and 80,000 Timorese civilians were killed in the first eighteen months of the occupation. These civilians were killed with American weapons, which Kissinger contrived to supply over Congressional protests, and their murders were covered up by American diplomacy, and the rapid rate of their murder was something that had been urged in so many words by an American Secretary of State. How is one to live with the shame of this? How is one to tolerate the continued easy and profiteering existence of such a man, who had no sooner left office than he went into business partnership with the same genocidal dictatorship he had helped arm and encourage? - http://www.thenation.com/article/kissingers-green-light-suharto/
Kissinger, who does not find room to mention East Timor even in the index of his three-volume memoir, has more than once stated that the invasion came to him as a surprise, and that he barely knew of the existence of the Timorese question. He was obviously lying. But the breathtaking extent of his mendacity has only just become fully apparent, with the declassification of a secret State Department telegram. The document, which has been made public by the National Security Archive at George Washington University, contains a verbatim record of the conversation among Suharto, Ford and Kissinger. "We want your understanding if we deem it necessary to take rapid or drastic action," Suharto opened bluntly. "We will understand and will not press you on the issue," Ford responded. "We understand the problem you have and the intentions you have." Kissinger was even more emphatic, but had an awareness of the possible "spin" problems back home. "It is important that whatever you do succeeds quickly," he instructed the despot. "We would be able to influence the reaction if whatever happens, happens after we return . If you have made plans, we will do our best to keep everyone quiet until the President returns home." Micromanaging things for Suharto, he added: "The President will be back on Monday at 2 pm Jakarta time. We understand your problem and the need to move quickly but I am only saying that it would be better if it were done after we returned." As ever, deniability supersedes accountability.
There came then the awkward question of weaponry. Indonesias armed forces, which had never yet lost a battle against civilians, were equipped with US-supplied matériel. But the Foreign Assistance Act forbade the use of such armaments except in self-defense. "It depends on how we construe it; whether it is in self-defense or is a foreign operation," Kissinger mused. (At a later meeting back at the State Department on December 18, the minutes of which have also been declassified, he was blunt about knowingly violating the statute. For a transcript of the minutes, see Mark Hertsgaard, "The Secret Life of Henry Kissinger," October 29, 1990.)
An even more sinister note was struck later in the conversation, when Kissinger asked Suharto if he expected "a long guerrilla war." The dictator replied that there "will probably be a small guerrilla war," while making no promise about its duration. Bear in mind that Kissinger has already urged speed and dispatch upon Suharto. Adam Malik, Indonesias foreign minister at the time, later conceded in public that between 50,000 and 80,000 Timorese civilians were killed in the first eighteen months of the occupation. These civilians were killed with American weapons, which Kissinger contrived to supply over Congressional protests, and their murders were covered up by American diplomacy, and the rapid rate of their murder was something that had been urged in so many words by an American Secretary of State. How is one to live with the shame of this? How is one to tolerate the continued easy and profiteering existence of such a man, who had no sooner left office than he went into business partnership with the same genocidal dictatorship he had helped arm and encourage? - http://www.thenation.com/article/kissingers-green-light-suharto/
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So Obama is hororing the war criminal who is Hillary's mentor. Is it OK with "Progressive"? [View all]
kgnu_fan
May 2016
OP
You can tell a lot about people by who they choose to pat on the back. nt
cherokeeprogressive
May 2016
#3
Hmmmm ..... who do I want for POTUS .... the one paling around the 1% with Henry Freaking Kissinger
marble falls
May 2016
#133
Not really - I just don't extrapolate facts into exponential hysteria to the point of ridiculous.
Lil Missy
May 2016
#108
There are democratic countries that he cannot enter because he would be arrested on sight.
Luminous Animal
May 2016
#11
I miss Sanator Obama who was a "progressive" before he became President. I wonder if he
kgnu_fan
May 2016
#19
I did NOT know that! Wow, I am so disgusted with Obama now... I never knew....!
kgnu_fan
May 2016
#38
Do you have a link for that wellstone remark? That is shocking and offensive
JonLeibowitz
May 2016
#61
Sirota has repeated the quote as recently as this past February in his Twitter feed
dflprincess
May 2016
#126
Sometimes I wonder if those Secret Service agents are really there to protect his family
Matariki
May 2016
#37
Unless the ceremony is taking place in The Hague as a pretense to bring him to justice
Dragonfli
May 2016
#40
They're all in it together. We are royally fucked as a country, beyond the point of no return.
ThePhilosopher04
May 2016
#48
Foreign lives and nations are the price of the US doing business, in most people's mind.
cpwm17
May 2016
#84
more privileged purism, the people who served.. no matter how horribly get these honors. You guys...
uponit7771
May 2016
#60
Nope, not following a tradition of honoring those who served is NOT progressive though
uponit7771
May 2016
#64
Why? What does upholding some "tradition" have to do with being progressive?
TheKentuckian
May 2016
#100
I still remember vividly the great speech he gave during the Denver convention. He broke his promise
kgnu_fan
May 2016
#117
This is beyond belief. Kissinger? Why not honor John Wayne Gacy? His bodycount too low?
mikehiggins
May 2016
#77
Well she is a progressive. I know that because she said it. Perhaps Kissinger is too? (now) nt
silvershadow
May 2016
#79
I kind of wonder what the hell is wrong with him at times. (and this is one of them)
pdsimdars
May 2016
#103