2016 Postmortem

morningfog

(18,115 posts)

9. He's making valid points. Our nomination process is an exercise of absurdity.

Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:49 PM

Apr 2016

It is disorganized and inconsistent. It is arbitrary and far from democratic.

1. Not all votes are equal. One person's vote carries greater weight than others depending on the state's delegate allocation process.

2. Caucuses are undemocratic. They are not one person one vote, they require commitment and not secret votes.

3. Super delegates are undemocratic and/or irrelevant but make up 15% of the delegates at the convention!

4. Some states primaries are open, some semi-open, some closed.

5. Some states allow same day registration, other require registration six months out.

6. Etc etc etc.

It is not a "fine" process. It is rife with error and inconsistencies. It is not based on the popular vote. It is an imperfect and shifting process to chose the nominee. It is what it is.

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Tad Devine explained Sanders' campaign strategy on Rachel Maddow tonight. [View all] kstewart33 Apr 2016 OP

I saw it Renew Deal Apr 2016 #1

AND... Just WHAT Has Hillary TEAM Been Doing... Say... Harry Reed in Nevada? CorporatistNation Apr 2016 #18

What has Secretary Clinton Team done? Winning larger primaries, collecting more pledged delegates. SFnomad Apr 2016 #30

Devine's plan may work under GOP party rules but not Democratic rules Gothmog Apr 2016 #62

not so! Devine is correct! there is no one-to-one correspondence of popular vote to pledged amborin Apr 2016 #94

Read the delegation selection plans of each state Gothmog Apr 2016 #108

you can certainly flip supers at the convention amborin Apr 2016 #109

Yes you can but it is not likely Gothmog Apr 2016 #112

sure, but that won't happen. The Super Delegates will go with whoever has the most pledged still_one Apr 2016 #133

Yes, we get it. Bernie doesn't lose elections Renew Deal Apr 2016 #104

Hypocrites and grifters. And not too bright. Squinch Apr 2016 #2

Seems both our candidates have one or two more things in common, aye? Fascinating. nt nc4bo Apr 2016 #12

No. I am fine with how my candidate has conducted herself. Squinch Apr 2016 #16

And I with mine. nt nc4bo Apr 2016 #24

And yet this strategy that Devine is outlining goes against everything your candidate has ever Squinch Apr 2016 #27

There's a DUer who broke it down.....if I can find the link again I'll add it here. nc4bo Apr 2016 #38

Yeah, thanks but no. I don't really care about the cockamamie scheme they're using to Squinch Apr 2016 #47

Since when have you guys (and gals) cared how much we give to our candidate? nc4bo Apr 2016 #64

Lol. northernsouthern Apr 2016 #101

The vote is the core of our democracy. kstewart33 Apr 2016 #59

I see you didnt even bother trying to read and comprehend what was being said in that post. nc4bo Apr 2016 #69

i don't think you understand the process: amborin Apr 2016 #96

I understand the process just fine. I think that it is you who are missing something. Squinch Apr 2016 #145

I am amused that Devine does not know Democratic party rules Gothmog Apr 2016 #65

LOL, he must have gotten the memo that we make it up as we see fit. nc4bo Apr 2016 #71

Each state has a delegate selection plan that was finalized back in September Gothmog Apr 2016 #99

A Clinton supporter using the word "grifters" to describe other politicians. How ironic.... think Apr 2016 #85

Your description fits them perfectly! workinclasszero Apr 2016 #144

Good luck with that. nt TMontoya Apr 2016 #3

At least he's not spewing smears like the Clinton "disqualify" Bernie meme. snowy owl Apr 2016 #4

Perhaps you should reread the post. kstewart33 Apr 2016 #6

True. He's just saying that all the calling for democracy and whining about voter suppression... Buzz Clik Apr 2016 #11

Not qualified because he has never had to face the repercussions of any of his protest-policies.... bettyellen Apr 2016 #14

They are two hustlers blowing smoke out of their backsides. Beacool Apr 2016 #89

A beat down next weekend should end this crazy talk for good nt geek tragedy Apr 2016 #5

She wins 4 out of 5. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #10

Yikes. That was powerful and moving. Buzz Clik Apr 2016 #13

i can't imagine rushing a lunatic with a gun. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #22

yes it was still_one Apr 2016 #135

Powerful ad! n/t nolawarlock Apr 2016 #21

It probably will, but it's nothing to be proud of.. Blue Meany Apr 2016 #56

While Hillary Clinton was fighting for the passage of the Brady Bill DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #70

This message was self-deleted by its author Blue Meany Apr 2016 #127

Great ad Gothmog Apr 2016 #68

I'm Annie Oakley and I approve this message. Because I've evolved. eom Chezboo Apr 2016 #72

Tell yourself that after the Secretary sweeps Bernie next Tuesday DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #80

Win or not, she is exploiting tragedy and her bad past decisions are responsible for much more dinkytron Apr 2016 #105

My favorite DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #111

Is this Ellen? Are you challenging me to a dance off? dinkytron Apr 2016 #114

A dance off??? DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #115

Be clear, friend. What are challenging me to? dinkytron Apr 2016 #117

Again DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #119

Not only will she not win the election but four years from now, she'll be mercifully dinkytron Apr 2016 #120

Does that mean you lack the courage of your convictions to accept my challenge? DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #122

There is something disturbingly aggressive about your challenge, friend. dinkytron Apr 2016 #124

"Disturbingly aggressive." DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #126

DSB, are you using a thesaurus again? dinkytron Apr 2016 #128

I will ignore your patronizing comments. We already established the kind of person you are. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #131

"Cocksure"? "Meeting in the park"? "Eating dirt"? "Filthy Lucre"? You are turning me on. dinkytron Apr 2016 #134

Some --- put me on Ignore. I am totally ------- crestfallen. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #136

He lost the primary people Demsrule86 Apr 2016 #146

Dirt is plentiful in MacArthur Park. Grass is scarce. oasis Apr 2016 #137

I have driven past the park. I have never been in it. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #139

I'll pm you. oasis Apr 2016 #140

. Loudestlib Apr 2016 #107

Hillary has detractors. I never knew that. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #113

You stand with a candidate exploiting the deaths of children. Loudestlib Apr 2016 #116

If you believe DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #118

If you believe that gun deaths only mater in the US there is nothing I can do for you. Loudestlib Apr 2016 #121

Every death is a tragedy. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #123

We aren't talking about the US, we are talking about Hillary. Loudestlib Apr 2016 #125

If you have evidence of a crime here;s the contact info for the AG DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #129

Who said anything about a crime? Loudestlib Apr 2016 #130

I am sure what you accused her of meets the statutory requirement for a felony bribery charge. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #132

As far as I know, there is no evidence of a crime. Loudestlib Apr 2016 #141

I saw that. How can a candidate running against the establishment declare that YouDig Apr 2016 #7

The end justifies the means Zorro Apr 2016 #40

I saw it, what I heard doesn't match yours unc70 Apr 2016 #8

Give us the details. kstewart33 Apr 2016 #20

He's making valid points. Our nomination process is an exercise of absurdity. morningfog Apr 2016 #9

that the less democratic it is- the better he does? So he aims to make it less democratic? bettyellen Apr 2016 #19

No. It is an undemocraticpeocess. It is not a popular vote contest. morningfog Apr 2016 #23

So pushing the limit on how undeserved of a win it can be for him- got it. Interesting! bettyellen Apr 2016 #29

No, it is not going to happen. morningfog Apr 2016 #33

that is an interesting point, but it's going to look like "sour grapes" again, and few will get more bettyellen Apr 2016 #37

I don't disagree. But we'll see how it plays out. morningfog Apr 2016 #46

And yet when Hillary played within the rules and lined up her super delegates, she was accused Squinch Apr 2016 #36

The supers are undemocratic, regardless of who uses them. morningfog Apr 2016 #42

Oh morningfog, but Tad says that only delegates matter. kstewart33 Apr 2016 #50

Only delegates do matter. One number matters 2,383. morningfog Apr 2016 #55

So, again, when Hillary does it it's evil, when Sanders does it, it's just fine. Squinch Apr 2016 #52

Again, that is not at all what I said. morningfog Apr 2016 #58

Don't attempt to diffuse the insanity of what he said. kstewart33 Apr 2016 #25

The popular vote does not matter. That is not how we nominate. morningfog Apr 2016 #31

Your spin doesn't work. kstewart33 Apr 2016 #44

It's not spin, it's true. We don't nominate by popular vote. morningfog Apr 2016 #51

Legitimacy matters. Pledged delegate and popular vote are the two geek tragedy Apr 2016 #66

I take your point on legitimacy. But supers aren't flipping. morningfog Apr 2016 #75

Not sure you're appreciating just how much and from how many geek tragedy Apr 2016 #81

I have no idea how that factors in his decision. morningfog Apr 2016 #87

His leverage is that they need/want him to play nice. geek tragedy Apr 2016 #93

And they want his supporters and their funding. morningfog Apr 2016 #100

Yes, that comes with him playing nice nt geek tragedy Apr 2016 #106

It is ludicrous that you are arguing this with TM99 Apr 2016 #138

You are confusing the GE with the primaries. nt ChisolmTrailDem Apr 2016 #39

Civics 101... you truly believe the popular vote matters? nadinbrzezinski Apr 2016 #48

If the popular vote does not matter, why vote at all? kstewart33 Apr 2016 #54

Becuase our elections are INDIRECT nadinbrzezinski Apr 2016 #74

So Bernie wants to be the George W Bush and Weaver wants to be geek tragedy Apr 2016 #60

Do not put words in my mouth counselor nadinbrzezinski Apr 2016 #83

Technical rules and legitimacy are two different concepts. geek tragedy Apr 2016 #90

Look so we are clear nadinbrzezinski Apr 2016 #97

It's a step above the smoke filled rooms, but we probably need another movement for reform Blue Meany Apr 2016 #63

So, let me get this straight.... Adrahil Apr 2016 #73

The nomination process IS undemocratic. morningfog Apr 2016 #79

True enough, but it makes his super PAC speeches ring hollow.... Adrahil Apr 2016 #84

Don't worry, it won't work. morningfog Apr 2016 #88

I agree... It's just... Adrahil Apr 2016 #92

We'll see. morningfog Apr 2016 #98

yes, plus, the popular primary vote doesn't directly dictate number of pledged delegates: amborin Apr 2016 #102

Gone crazy????? revmclaren Apr 2016 #15

Not accurate Tom Rinaldo Apr 2016 #17

The 'showing up' strategy? Please. kstewart33 Apr 2016 #28

He didn't say it tdidnt' matter, he said the count was invalid.... Tom Rinaldo Apr 2016 #76

It says something that their hope for winning YouDig Apr 2016 #41

That plan will not work under Democratic Party rules Gothmog Apr 2016 #77

I don't claim to know each state's rules but... Tom Rinaldo Apr 2016 #91

Way to misrepresent, I saw it and you dishonestly present his argument - eom dreamnightwind Apr 2016 #26

Diversions won't work this time. nt kstewart33 Apr 2016 #32

here dreamnightwind Apr 2016 #53

They're so confused. Poor things. NurseJackie Apr 2016 #34

When you have no legitimate argument to make, you resort to garbage. CrowCityDem Apr 2016 #35

Yeah ... I see that a lot here with the attacks and insults on Hillary and her supporters. NurseJackie Apr 2016 #57

Barack Obama gained delegates at later rounds of caucuses jfern Apr 2016 #43

This is a race for delagates. Not the popular vote. JeffHead Apr 2016 #45

I think he realized this when he heard super-delegate Howard Dean say he would do whatever HE Samantha Apr 2016 #49

Under Democratic rules, the candidate has approval rights over their delegates Gothmog Apr 2016 #61

I think you need to reread what you just posted passiveporcupine Apr 2016 #67

I disagree but perhaps we can agree on one point. kstewart33 Apr 2016 #86

So closed primaries are "voter suppresion" Adrahil Apr 2016 #78

HRC Endorsers & operatives disenfranchising hundreds of thousands of Dem voters Triana Apr 2016 #82

He should have said... northernsouthern Apr 2016 #95

Pedaling fast trying to keep his candidate's supporters energized. Beacool Apr 2016 #103

He's right. They aren't democratic. They do the math differently and it doesn't get distributed Unicorn Apr 2016 #110

In some places we vote, in others we caucus. quaker bill Apr 2016 #142

Sanders campaign will overturn the will of the people! workinclasszero Apr 2016 #143