2016 Postmortem

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)

42. No, not all independents are really independent. Most aren't.

Sat Apr 9, 2016, 05:49 PM

Apr 2016

A lot of Independents are wingnuts who are ashamed to be associated with the Republican party (can't blame them on that one)

A lot of Independents are leftwingers who hold their noses and vote D in the general election.

And a fair number of them are squishy centrists, have no coherent ideology, or are "I vote the person not the party" types.

Polling indicates Clinton is crushing Trump and Cruz in the fall. She would lose to Kasich, but so would Sanders. Fortunately, he has zero chance of being their nominee.

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why was the Wyoming caucus so much closer than other caucuses? Democrats only. [View all] geek tragedy Apr 2016 OP

and absentee voting. Lucinda Apr 2016 #1

i.e. better organization on the ground. geek tragedy Apr 2016 #2

I'm just happy all those people got to vote. A caucus without provisions Lucinda Apr 2016 #6

Something tells me that the democracy-expanding presence of absentee voting will be cited... IamMab Apr 2016 #16

I just ignore them. They say she can't win the GE yet can steal the primary. Lucinda Apr 2016 #22

Most irritants are anti-Democrats, a long-recognized Hortensis Apr 2016 #145

Blessed are the temporarily affiliated, for they shall save us all. Lucinda Apr 2016 #147

"75% of Sanders supporters would support Hillary" Hortensis Apr 2016 #148

I totally agree with you about the portion of the right that is already moving leftward. Lucinda Apr 2016 #149

Yes. I actually know a lot of them here in Hortensis Apr 2016 #150

i.e. better ballot box stuffers mhatrw Apr 2016 #36

Can We Say... Democratic Party Facilitated Election Rigging? CorporatistNation Apr 2016 #106

You've gotta love that about the Clintons. ContinentalOp Apr 2016 #136

Bernie gets ZERO Net Delegates in Wyoming! Plus HRC has +4 superdelegates in WY riversedge Apr 2016 #151

How many people would you expect to show up with absentee ballots hack89 Apr 2016 #156

Allowing the poor, disabled, and elderly to vote. athena Apr 2016 #3

surrogate/absentee votes were allowed in WY, and that made a big difference nt geek tragedy Apr 2016 #4

Agreed. That was my point. athena Apr 2016 #5

Allowing the poor, disabled, and elderly to vote for Clinton. nt mhatrw Apr 2016 #37

Was their only choice was to vote for Hillary? Thinkingabout Apr 2016 #81

Are you implying they should be prevented from voting for anyone? n/t pnwmom Apr 2016 #133

they had something similar to absentee and the clinton campaign JI7 Apr 2016 #7

A candidate who is strongest in protected elections is risky in general elections hellofromreddit Apr 2016 #8

base is fine, Sanders voters who cared about defeating Republicans before primary geek tragedy Apr 2016 #9

What about the rest of them? hellofromreddit Apr 2016 #20

we could argue back and forth over the merits, but geek tragedy Apr 2016 #23

This may change Politicalboi Apr 2016 #30

If we lose them, we never had them. Unlike the minority voters who strongly support Hillary pnwmom Apr 2016 #135

"If we lose them, we never had them." hellofromreddit Apr 2016 #140

All but the richest 2% of Clinton supporters would vote Sanders over the Repukes. mhatrw Apr 2016 #38

No, not all independents are really independent. Most aren't. geek tragedy Apr 2016 #42

Some Democrats are squishy centrists without a coherent long-term ideology. JonLeibowitz Apr 2016 #51

foreign policy wise yes, on domestic policy she's pretty darn liberal nt geek tragedy Apr 2016 #55

domestic spying, free speech, encryption, LGBT rights, etc. JonLeibowitz Apr 2016 #61

domestic spying and encryption are the same issue. geek tragedy Apr 2016 #65

They are not the same issue at all. JonLeibowitz Apr 2016 #74

it's a basic fact. geek tragedy Apr 2016 #77

So your response to my detailed post explaining why it's an important policy area... JonLeibowitz Apr 2016 #82

on civil liberties it's a very complex issue and there's a very real danger that if there isn't geek tragedy Apr 2016 #85

I disagree. Civil Liberties are not a complex issue, it's black and white. JonLeibowitz Apr 2016 #95

But encryption is a black and white issue mythology Apr 2016 #107

I agree with you entirely; did you perhaps mean to reply to geek tragedy, who evidently disagrees? JonLeibowitz Apr 2016 #108

What is even riskier is a candidate who can't win the Black vote. athena Apr 2016 #26

Borrowing from the usual reasoning tossed around here.... hellofromreddit Apr 2016 #31

Oh, so you think the Black voters can be taken for granted. athena Apr 2016 #34

You can drop that race-baiting horse shit right now hellofromreddit Apr 2016 #47

Polarizing or losing? scscholar Apr 2016 #63

Haven't you heard? dchill Apr 2016 #66

It's Sanders by 12%. That's not very close in election land. Bluenorthwest Apr 2016 #10

He won Utah by 59% oberliner Apr 2016 #12

Similar in some ways. One is dominated by a patriarchal religious group, the other refused to join Bluenorthwest Apr 2016 #39

He won Alaska by 63 points. That state has around the same population as Wyoming oberliner Apr 2016 #45

Well, when compared to other, demographically similar states.... Adrahil Apr 2016 #126

Double Digit Win for Bernie noretreatnosurrender Apr 2016 #11

Are you surprised it was that close? oberliner Apr 2016 #14

He Sure Did noretreatnosurrender Apr 2016 #46

Agreed oberliner Apr 2016 #48

Compare the delegate counts to the candidates' targets. MineralMan Apr 2016 #15

Not the Candidate's targets noretreatnosurrender Apr 2016 #50

yes, here in WA he won by large margin MFM008 Apr 2016 #13

WA was a very meaningful win for him, his best state of the campaign. geek tragedy Apr 2016 #21

Our caucuses in WA are a serious form of voter suppression. pnwmom Apr 2016 #131

You are right, disenfranchisement is a feature, not a bug with caucuses. KitSileya Apr 2016 #143

This is an excellent point and should scare team Hillary NWCorona Apr 2016 #17

Wyoming is mostly comprised of white people oberliner Apr 2016 #57

True but with Bernie's inroads with minorities recently NWCorona Apr 2016 #71

New York will be a good test oberliner Apr 2016 #75

Agreed! And even though I think/hope he will win NWCorona Apr 2016 #78

If he wins NY and PA SheenaR Apr 2016 #18

And if he loses NY and PA he can start preparing his concession speech geek tragedy Apr 2016 #19

You all have been super with the predictions so far SheenaR Apr 2016 #27

I predicted he'd win Wisconsin by somewhere between 10-16 points. geek tragedy Apr 2016 #29

Hint: He's got the momentum, and Clinton's got more scandals that she is capable of handling fighting-irish Apr 2016 #119

Hillary supporters on the internet are speaking out against same day registration Cheese Sandwich Apr 2016 #24

So Bernie's winning now when it's just Democrats? Great! Karmadillo Apr 2016 #25

no, he didn't win anything. Tie in delegates. geek tragedy Apr 2016 #28

56-44 is a tie? Karmadillo Apr 2016 #32

delegates to the national convention, there are 14. If a candidate wins 56.25% they get 8/14 geek tragedy Apr 2016 #44

Yes, however it is still notable that he got 56% in a Democrat-only state. JonLeibowitz Apr 2016 #52

caucus state. whole different ballgame than primary. geek tragedy Apr 2016 #53

"Caucus" -- yet surrogate ballots were allowed. JonLeibowitz Apr 2016 #54

yep. nt geek tragedy Apr 2016 #56

I have no problem with that, I think it's great that more people were able to make their voice heard JonLeibowitz Apr 2016 #64

that's very possible, and probably should be factored in. geek tragedy Apr 2016 #67

I hope you're able to correct the multitude of media sources mistakenly reporting Sanders' victory. Karmadillo Apr 2016 #76

is it a victory if you gain nothing? nt geek tragedy Apr 2016 #79

In this particular instance, the vast majority of the world would appear to be saying yes. Don't Karmadillo Apr 2016 #84

it's worse than a tie for Sanders. geek tragedy Apr 2016 #86

Got it. 56-44 is a loss. Concession speech to follow. Karmadillo Apr 2016 #87

if he has another 24 states where he picks up a net zero delegates he will be giving a concession s geek tragedy Apr 2016 #89

A win is a win and adds to his streak. Momentum. Karmadillo Apr 2016 #91

at the risk of repeating myself, geek tragedy Apr 2016 #92

Momentum Karmadillo Apr 2016 #99

he's not winning New York geek tragedy Apr 2016 #101

I'm sure we'll find out soon whether or not he wins. Karmadillo Apr 2016 #104

You pray that's a hail mary. fighting-irish Apr 2016 #120

Well, I've seen Ohio called a tie here as well... sweetloukillbot Apr 2016 #102

Who is reporting a tie in delegates? Link? mhatrw Apr 2016 #35

Everybody? sweetloukillbot Apr 2016 #103

When it's just White Democrats oberliner Apr 2016 #58

+1 Go Vols Apr 2016 #68

A good, solid win for Sen. Sanders in Wyoming earthside Apr 2016 #105

Thanks for posting this. Karmadillo Apr 2016 #111

LOL. The reason was Clinton stuffed the ballot box with surrogate votes. nt mhatrw Apr 2016 #33

Please specify the violation of Wyoming State Laws or WDP rules which occurred... brooklynite Apr 2016 #40

I think you'll be waiting a while for that 'evidence' shenmue Apr 2016 #141

and there's the conspiracy theory excuse we were waiting for--nt geek tragedy Apr 2016 #43

No the actual reason is there are many counties with only 2 delegates GeorgiaPeanuts Apr 2016 #41

If he won 80-20 like he did in Alaska, it would not be a 1-1 delegate split oberliner Apr 2016 #62

Yep.. actual Democrats dont feel the Bern... DCBob Apr 2016 #49

And what, pray tell, are "actual" Democrats? dchill Apr 2016 #59

Democrats who don't trash other Democrats. DCBob Apr 2016 #69

Then Hillary supporters don't count. ForgoTheConsequence Apr 2016 #70

I rarely see any Hillary supporters trash Bernie or Bernie supporters. DCBob Apr 2016 #73

HAHAHAHA ForgoTheConsequence Apr 2016 #113

Good for you.. laughter is the best medicine! DCBob Apr 2016 #115

Are you channeling Ronald Reagan now? bvf Apr 2016 #96

I have no idea what you are talking about. DCBob Apr 2016 #109

Then you're either bvf Apr 2016 #127

Do you have to be so insulting? DCBob Apr 2016 #128

When it's called for. bvf Apr 2016 #129

By that definition, there are ZERO real Democrats... dchill Apr 2016 #116

One can disagree on policies and politics without trashing each other. DCBob Apr 2016 #121

You first. dchill Apr 2016 #122

I dont trash other Democrats. DCBob Apr 2016 #123

I don't either! dchill Apr 2016 #124

Good for you. DCBob Apr 2016 #125

That's because most people who actually care about what the party is supposed to represent cui bono Apr 2016 #60

I was an Independent for a number of years back during the Clinton admin. DCBob Apr 2016 #72

Surrogates also can't be pressured / bullied into voting for a particular candidate...nt SidDithers Apr 2016 #80

Read this on Reddit... northernsouthern Apr 2016 #83

I can't vouch for the accurary of stuff on reddit nt geek tragedy Apr 2016 #90

True, but it was sourced well enough to verify it. northernsouthern Apr 2016 #93

maybe they want to make sure people voting by surrogate geek tragedy Apr 2016 #94

Surrogates, or what you might call the Phantom Vote. NorthCarolina Apr 2016 #88

I think you mean Demcorats and Third Way faux Democrats only LondonReign2 Apr 2016 #97

blah blah anyone who disagrees with me is impure blah blah nt geek tragedy Apr 2016 #100

Impure? LondonReign2 Apr 2016 #152

Clinton's economic ideas are not Republican. Jeebus, read her campaign geek tragedy Apr 2016 #153

No, more circa 1985 Bob Dole LondonReign2 Apr 2016 #154

no, she's not. Bob Dole called for cutting taxes on the rich and slashing government geek tragedy Apr 2016 #155

Identical? Of course not. A resonable facsimile that conservatives in both parties can support? LondonReign2 Apr 2016 #157

no, no, no. There's nothing in Clinton's economic plan geek tragedy Apr 2016 #158

That would explain Blankfein's pointed criticism of her LondonReign2 Apr 2016 #159

Interesting, as closes caucuses are in Bernie's wheelhouse Tarc Apr 2016 #98

It won't be so close after the state level caucus and the Hillary NorthCarolina Apr 2016 #110

Snopes says not true stevenleser Apr 2016 #146

COLORADO. Democrats only. Not close at all. Bernie 60% Turn CO Blue Apr 2016 #112

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2016 #142

Wyoming was an open caucus Tarc Apr 2016 #114

Surrogate ballots. Dont call me Shirley Apr 2016 #117

They are a form of absentee ballots, and all caucuses should make them freely available. pnwmom Apr 2016 #132

650 surrogate ballots brought in by 1 person is a limited circumstance? Dont call me Shirley Apr 2016 #144

You do understand that those ballots are mailed to a central location? hack89 Apr 2016 #160

Good sign for Bernie in the fall. morningfog Apr 2016 #118

Thank you! Interesting.. more Democratically in Wyoming.. who knew! Cha Apr 2016 #130

Are you happy about this? Fawke Em Apr 2016 #134

And if Clinton is the nominee? ContinentalOp Apr 2016 #137

I don't think Greens and Republicans should pick our nominee nt geek tragedy Apr 2016 #138

Excellent analysis. K & R Surya Gayatri Apr 2016 #139