2016 Postmortem

LostOne4Ever

(9,309 posts)

20. What is a party beyond just a way of getting people elected.

Sun Apr 3, 2016, 03:19 AM

Apr 2016

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=#009999]When this party was first formed it was about promoting Jeffersonian liberalism. Shortly after the federalist died out, it became corrupted and became super conservative and the party of slavery and treason.

Then, at the turn of the century it started to drift left with economically with Wilson and then Roosevelt. Then in the 1960's it shifted left socially. After that, it began to move to the right to counter the losses it had to Reagan and brought us the Clintons. Now, with Obama, it has SLOWLY begun to drift to the left again.

So which democrats are we discussing? The Jeffersonians? The party of the South during the 1800's? Wilson's party of economic liberalism and social conservativism? The Party following the LBJ years? The Clinton years? The Obama era? Or are we talking about the party of the here and now?

My point is this, parties are just vessels to winning elections.

We the people of the party are the ones who determine the ideology and the heart of the party. And as a member of the Democratic party I want this party to represent the ideals Sanders is promoting. I don't care that he was an independent till now, I care that he is a democrat now and want this party to follow the path he has set down.

I believe Sanders is the future of the party and I gladly welcome him![/font]

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The Idea that Bernie is a Democrat at heart is sort of laughable [View all] kennetha Apr 2016 OP

Bernocchio Sanders is not a Dem and was never a Dem. Cali_Democrat Apr 2016 #1

Did Bernie say he was a democrat? Perogie Apr 2016 #5

Yes Cali_Democrat Apr 2016 #11

Then he is a democrat. Perogie Apr 2016 #18

True. He registered, therefore is technically a Democrat. Hortensis Apr 2016 #39

You must be an awfully young and uninformed person to think he is an extremist of any kind Dragonfli Apr 2016 #44

Personality, Dragonflies. Personality. Hortensis Apr 2016 #49

The politics of personality is the problem, one should hold ideals and do so consistently Dragonfli Apr 2016 #55

Our personalities are hard wired by genetics, Hortensis Apr 2016 #77

Eugenics now? I chang my mind, you go your way, I'll go my way but Eugenics gets you the ignore list Dragonfli Apr 2016 #82

Sounds good. :) Hortensis Apr 2016 #87

I'm supporting Hillary for the nomination Arneoker Apr 2016 #195

Sure. Would you like to discuss the far right? Hortensis Apr 2016 #196

You do know that the Political Compass has a self-professed libertarian bias, right? baldguy Apr 2016 #50

I know you don't appear to know what you are talking about , other than that.... Dragonfli Apr 2016 #56

I posted a graph sourced from the same site you posted a graph. baldguy Apr 2016 #68

What it listed was a top of the graph fascist, appears correct to me.. Dragonfli Apr 2016 #70

You either can't read graphs, or are woefully ignorant of the sources you use baldguy Apr 2016 #94

First of all she is neoliberal, not liberal, and he is basically on the center regarding neoliberal Dragonfli Apr 2016 #101

Funny, I don't see a "neoliberal" axis on the graph you can't seem to read. baldguy Apr 2016 #103

It is listed on the graph you posted, so I don't really know what to tell you Dragonfli Apr 2016 #108

Is Hitler more liberal than Clinton? It's a simple yes or no question. baldguy Apr 2016 #117

I laugh when I see that chart... JohnnyRingo Apr 2016 #188

The first accurate chart in this entire thread! Sancho Apr 2016 #194

Sick of that manipulated chart JohnnyRingo Apr 2016 #143

Sorry tpo burst your "I thunk it myself" bubble, but those charts NorthCarolina Apr 2016 #176

Bullshit JohnnyRingo Apr 2016 #183

... NorthCarolina Apr 2016 #184

I gave more thought to your chart. JohnnyRingo Apr 2016 #187

Love it! workinclasszero Apr 2016 #197

OMG ismnotwasm Apr 2016 #198

LOL! treestar Apr 2016 #201

This message was self-deleted by its author rbrnmw Apr 2016 #193

Exactly treestar Apr 2016 #200

wow that's a far tale Perogie Apr 2016 #90

Absolutely Yuuuge failure on the OP's attempt... MrMickeysMom Apr 2016 #110

Why? he's always caucused with the Democrats, he is more a Democrat than most in the party re issues Dragonfli Apr 2016 #43

Mere convenience kennetha Apr 2016 #81

How convenient that he not only voted with them but the party promoted him to Dragonfli Apr 2016 #85

Read much? kennetha Apr 2016 #89

I have been an avid reader for over fifty years, but your opinion pieces aren't very good. Dragonfli Apr 2016 #92

Damn straight! Jennylynn Apr 2016 #157

This message was self-deleted by its author imari362 Apr 2016 #179

+1 uponit7771 Apr 2016 #57

The first of soooo many lies. FarPoint Apr 2016 #73

This message was self-deleted by its author imari362 Apr 2016 #180

Freeloading hitchihiker: It's what he has done with 1/2 of his life Sheepshank Apr 2016 #186

I don't subscribe to GDP so get called to juries several times a day JustAnotherGen Apr 2016 #120

He is more of a true democrat than you will ever be. phleshdef Apr 2016 #127

So what? Very few voters give a sh*t. In fact, that is a huge selling point with millions! imagine2015 Apr 2016 #158

Not a Dem never was never will be. nt fun n serious Apr 2016 #199

I think he represents my Democratic values quite well. We can move the party back to where it should uppityperson Apr 2016 #2

I'm With You noretreatnosurrender Apr 2016 #7

Gee, when I said something like this the Bernie folks attacked. kennetha Apr 2016 #104

So Harry Truman's healthcare program is now "militantly leftist". Warren Stupidity Apr 2016 #123

Wholeheartedly Ditto! dchill Apr 2016 #53

That's not what he's been saying most of his career. kennetha Apr 2016 #84

I disagree with much of what you wrote uppityperson Apr 2016 #146

You realize that these are Bernie Sanders words, right? Direct Quote kennetha Apr 2016 #147

Hah! No, I didn't. When are they from? That's pretty funny. uppityperson Apr 2016 #148

Here kennetha Apr 2016 #149

Thank you. I guess he evolved. uppityperson Apr 2016 #150

yes it is because I don't think he has claimed to be a democrat. Perogie Apr 2016 #3

"I don't think he has claimed to be a democrat" Cali_Democrat Apr 2016 #22

Why Did he Run as A democrat? kennetha Apr 2016 #86

Everyone Knows Why He's Running as a Democrat noretreatnosurrender Apr 2016 #140

He's a progressive ram2008 Apr 2016 #4

Check out this Excellent Piece noretreatnosurrender Apr 2016 #8

I agree with Sanders... GeorgiaPeanuts Apr 2016 #6

Check out this Excellent Piece noretreatnosurrender Apr 2016 #9

Sanders has never, until now, counted himself any kind of Democrat ... kennetha Apr 2016 #93

Caucasing with Democrats in the U.S. Senate? jonestonesusa Apr 2016 #121

mostly his wins are fuel by independents, Trumpets and other rootless types. kennetha Apr 2016 #125

Rootless types? jonestonesusa Apr 2016 #129

From what you write, I'd say, as a Democrat for over 47 years, that you've become enraptured highprincipleswork Apr 2016 #10

FDR was a moderate nt fun n serious Apr 2016 #15

Not compared to the Clintons. He would have had them for breakfast. highprincipleswork Apr 2016 #16

+1000 Kittycat Apr 2016 #17

+1000 more Art_from_Ark Apr 2016 #191

Here's more kennetha Apr 2016 #12

FDR ...LBJ ..Bernie. deepestblue Apr 2016 #13

Who cares? I voted for him when he was an I and I voted for him as a D. beam me up scottie Apr 2016 #14

if he's not, then I'm not either Viva_La_Revolution Apr 2016 #19

What is a party beyond just a way of getting people elected. LostOne4Ever Apr 2016 #20

Bernie is absolutely our best choice to win the White House, gain in Congress, correspond with highprincipleswork Apr 2016 #25

How is Bernie going to help us regain the Senate and/or the Congress kennetha Apr 2016 #28

Enthusiastic voters voting for a platform they really believe in behind leaders they can trust. highprincipleswork Apr 2016 #31

So you don't want to support the candidates currently running on the democratic ticket kennetha Apr 2016 #76

Trying to trap me or something? No, I support whom I like, which means Progressive Democrats. highprincipleswork Apr 2016 #171

Thanks, highprincipleswork, that is so nice. senz Apr 2016 #34

So well said, LostOne4Ever senz Apr 2016 #30

So? What disagreement do you have with his assessments? Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2016 #21

I'd like to see kennetha answer your question. Martin Eden Apr 2016 #109

He's an FDR Democrat from "the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party" senz Apr 2016 #23

Comparing Bernie to LBJ is laughable too kennetha Apr 2016 #26

Okay first senz didn't compare him to LBJ and second: the people's spew? beam me up scottie Apr 2016 #27

I know, I couldn't figure out where that came from... senz Apr 2016 #32

This message was self-deleted by its author Puglover Apr 2016 #95

Yeah, Bernie is no LBJ Mnpaul Apr 2016 #66

Bernie is a better man than LBJ phleshdef Apr 2016 #128

Thank you rurallib Apr 2016 #62

Bernie is a progressive at heart, which is what matters. Kall Apr 2016 #24

Did I see you in Dr. Strangelove? nt Bonobo Apr 2016 #29

It's only strange if you equate being a Democrat at heart Ken Burch Apr 2016 #33

It's got that "America love it or leave it" ring, doesn't it? senz Apr 2016 #35

liberal socialist feminist womanist anarchist activist Kalidurga Apr 2016 #36

Generally, I find actions speak louder than labels. n/t Beartracks Apr 2016 #37

Right. Like when Sanders & his minions use RW fascist propaganda to attack Democrats. baldguy Apr 2016 #51

Yeah, right wing propaganda like "corporations have too much power" and "expand Social Security" Armstead Apr 2016 #72

RW propaganda like "Hillary is a corrupt liar" and "There's no difference between Dems & the GOP". baldguy Apr 2016 #88

If someone likes and admires the Clinton fine. No problem. Armstead Apr 2016 #91

Maybe not right wing themselves kennetha Apr 2016 #99

Right. Real progressives & Democrats are smarter than average, and better at recognizing bullshit. baldguy Apr 2016 #106

Do you want to grow the party or have an exclusive club? hellofromreddit Apr 2016 #38

Funny how you people cannot look at anything beyond a label. coyote Apr 2016 #40

He's the only person running who has never been a Republican. Tiggeroshii Apr 2016 #41

^^^No one else running can say that.^^^ -none Apr 2016 #160

Why? he's always caucused with the Democrats, he is more a Democrat than most in the party re issues Dragonfli Apr 2016 #42

That's not how Bernie thinks of himself. kennetha Apr 2016 #107

the idea that being a Democrat at heart means anything today is laughable bowens43 Apr 2016 #45

If he isn't, then, I want to be in the party he is in. glowing Apr 2016 #46

And your point? morningfog Apr 2016 #47

I've always found it a fucking laugh riot... Chan790 Apr 2016 #48

seriously kennetha Apr 2016 #97

You forgot to mention that Bernie is the most liberal senator. senz Apr 2016 #136

The Democratic party is leaving me. mainer Apr 2016 #52

JURY RESULTS: 2-5 to LEAVE IT. NurseJackie Apr 2016 #54

Sanders Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum comments pester me Gothmog Apr 2016 #58

Nader is an asshole -- But he was right about the two political parties Armstead Apr 2016 #63

"not a dime's worth of difference"? redstateblues Apr 2016 #80

On core systemic issues? Maybe a quarters worth Armstead Apr 2016 #83

There are major difference that the Sanders and Nader supporters are ignoring Gothmog Apr 2016 #154

Well if you may find some of them from me too Armstead Apr 2016 #156

Nader is indeed an asshole Gothmog Apr 2016 #169

It's sad that anybody believes that mythology Apr 2016 #132

It should be a clear and obvious set of vast differences not a matter of nuance and parsings.... Bluenorthwest Apr 2016 #139

I am living in a state suffering from the gutting of Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act Gothmog Apr 2016 #133

You are missing or ignoring the point Armstead Apr 2016 #137

So do you approve of the Citizens United decision that is due to Nader? Gothmog Apr 2016 #151

I don't think this post has the effect you were hoping for ProfessorPlum Apr 2016 #59

+1 dchill Apr 2016 #65

On Bernie backers? kennetha Apr 2016 #100

why do you think spamming the thread with this helps? Viva_La_Revolution Apr 2016 #145

He can call himself an NFL Linebacker for all I care. He represents DEMOCRACY Armstead Apr 2016 #60

I'd be willing to bet that Bernie Proud Public Servant Apr 2016 #61

boy, you hit the nail on the head ProfessorPlum Apr 2016 #69

He was ranked #8 in the Senate Mnpaul Apr 2016 #75

Tell that to Bernie kennetha Apr 2016 #98

Again, I think this just proves his point ProfessorPlum Apr 2016 #173

Bernie personifies what many liberals want the D Party to be thebeautifulstruggle Apr 2016 #64

thank you! Exactly what I was going to say. CTyankee Apr 2016 #115

Since a lot of the Democrats drifted passed the center to Republican Lite Sky Masterson Apr 2016 #67

He's what a Democrat used to be and should be. Vinca Apr 2016 #71

Republicans won't and they don't. -none Apr 2016 #161

That's my point. Vinca Apr 2016 #162

Just trying to clarify a bit. -none Apr 2016 #164

whatevs Hiraeth Apr 2016 #74

A Clinton "Democrat": Total Bill and Hillary speech income $153,000,000 kristopher Apr 2016 #78

A lot of Clinton supporters are laughable Democrats too. hobbit709 Apr 2016 #79

Your long screeds are what are laughable. HERVEPA Apr 2016 #96

Sanders has admitted: Wanted media coverage -so signed into the Democratic Party. It is not riversedge Apr 2016 #102

There have always been two kinds of people that join a political party DefenseLawyer Apr 2016 #105

You forgot a third kind -- the Bernie kind kennetha Apr 2016 #112

I was actually talking about party members more than politicians DefenseLawyer Apr 2016 #165

The Idea that a Goldwater Girl is a Democrat at heart is sort of laughable krawhitham Apr 2016 #111

right, people are finished developing politically at 16 years old. kennetha Apr 2016 #113

Well I was never president of my college's Young Republicans chapter krawhitham Apr 2016 #118

Democratic Party used to embrace socialist principles Goblinmonger Apr 2016 #114

When was that? kennetha Apr 2016 #116

Did i say they self identified as a socialist? Goblinmonger Apr 2016 #119

Yes Sanders does kennetha Apr 2016 #122

What he is, is a good decent, moral person who ThePhilosopher04 Apr 2016 #124

I pledge allegiance to the Democratic party SoLeftIAmRight Apr 2016 #126

Of course Bernie isn't a democrat. He's running as a democrat. I think at first it was just to pull Autumn Apr 2016 #130

Meh Bjornsdotter Apr 2016 #131

Lol! That's it? That's all you can find? KPN Apr 2016 #134

I read all that SheenaR Apr 2016 #135

You know who fails to criticize their own Party? Republicans. And look at that Party today. Bluenorthwest Apr 2016 #138

By your thinking were FDR or LBJ Democrats? libtodeath Apr 2016 #141

To quote Hillary, "What difference does it make?" thesquanderer Apr 2016 #142

He is a small d Democrat AgingAmerican Apr 2016 #144

OMG who the hell cares? Lucky Luciano Apr 2016 #152

That you believe Hillary is a Democrat is laughable Politicalboi Apr 2016 #153

This whole discussion is ridiculous Z_California Apr 2016 #155

Thanks for those excellent excerpts of Bernie's thinking. JackRiddler Apr 2016 #159

I know, right? ProfessorPlum Apr 2016 #174

I suppose stuff like this is really important to people who need to feel a sense of belonging. frylock Apr 2016 #163

Bernie is a FDR Democrat, Clinton is a Ronald Regan Democrat...nuff said! angstlessk Apr 2016 #166

Damn, your helpful collection of quotes only solidifies... SMC22307 Apr 2016 #167

KNR Lucinda Apr 2016 #168

Better than any Democrat I've ever had the opportunity to vote for, Jerry Brown is a distant 2nd. Umbral18 Apr 2016 #170

You'd rather vote for Kim Davis than Bernie. Gotcha Scootaloo Apr 2016 #172

Not just Davis, the OP seems to support the 5 NC Democrats who voted for the anti trans, anti gay Bluenorthwest Apr 2016 #181

"sort of"???? I think we can be quite sure that is not the case. DrDan Apr 2016 #175

Disabuse yourself of the notion that "Democrat" is a check mark on an index card. cherokeeprogressive Apr 2016 #177

All ideas and values I hold as a Democrat randr Apr 2016 #178

Not sure why this would really matter. nt revbones Apr 2016 #182

The difference between the parties is not so deep that Lint Head Apr 2016 #185

I completely agree, which is why I wont be one either if he's not nominated Joob Apr 2016 #189

I heard he supports no payday lending predators, no private prisons, no trade races to the bottom Betty Karlson Apr 2016 #190

So when he caucused with us to give us a Senate majority by one vote Warren DeMontague Apr 2016 #192

I'd like to see single payer Jarqui Apr 2016 #202